Does anyone think werewolf is balanced in pvp?

TequilaFire

A balanced game is a dead game.

KylKad

I don't understand how a balanced game is a dead game. Not knowing exactly what you mean I could only assume if it's balanced one actually has to know how to play without playing a class that carries or is an easy win with an easy 2 button roto. Not trying to be insulting or anything but legit curious as to how a balanced game is a dead game. I like challenges not easy wins



Also I do find it hilarious that most of these werewolf and vampire changes were made in a expansion that supposed to bring vampire lords, almost like a vampire expansion yet next they destroyed vampires in nerfs while making a werewolf near God standards even for people who have no idea how to play a werewolf. It's like they change their minds about everything they do in this game more than anything or anyone I've ever met. Very indecisive on what they want

blabafat

TequilaFire wrote: »

A balanced game is a dead game.

Alright, well if we are making stuff OP for people to have fun, can my magicka dk get some buffs? Can my dragon blood restore magicka if I'm at full health? I just wanna have fun. Something that would be really fun, let's make my leap do triple the damage. It'll be fun.

NeoXanthus

blabafat wrote: »

Does anyone unironically think werewolf is balanced? Major beserk, perhaps the best heal in the game (much better than templar, the healing class in this game), major brutality, you get resources back for using that heal, major defile, increase movement speed, increase return on heavy attack, increase weapon damage by a flat 18 percent, increase resistances by 10K. Much more.

Vampire, up to 30% damage reduction if you're stage 3 or higher. While being at stage 3, you have 60% less health regen, increase cost of skills by 8%, increase fire damage taken by 13%.

Vampire ulti costs 281 at stage 3. Vampire ulti costs more if you're stage 1. Werewolf costs 300. You can literally stay in werewolf for a whole bg, like 10 plus minutes. You can die as a werewolf, and you will still be werewolf. Vampire ulti lasts 20 seconds, and there are so many downsides to vampire.

I legitimately could not imagine if anyone responds to this forum post and thinks that werewolf is balanced. It has insane healing, damage, buffs, major defile, etc.

????


https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Werewolf+Skills

Every time a see one of these posts I have a face palm moment. I love playing a WW in PvP but I use them for three main reasons with my primary build. First and most important I use it for escape. WW can run very fast and I try a put and object between me and my attacker then un-WW pop a vanish potion hide and hope my enemy gives up. Second, I use it offensively if I see lessor experienced newer PvP-ers using skills that are primarily used in PvE, typically they do not use a ton of protection and do not have balanced PvP build. They usually fall quick which makes this wolf happy. Third, if I am in a group up with experienced PvP players on my side I will play bait or to use a Muhammad Ali term “Rope-a-dope” if I get people enemy to follow me my veteran team mates will flank and make short work of my attackers. For those that think the WW is the end all be all solution in PvP you are mistaken. Try playing it for a week in primetime 30day Cryodiil CP.

This last patch I believe ZoS balanced the WW more than ever. Also, speaking from personal experienced in PvP when I use the WW against an accomplished PvP-er, I usually get stunned, then poisoned, then executed, and in 3+ seconds it is all over. When I see skillful PvP players I rarely bring the wolf out because of this.

raasdal

Well, i have not tried to build one for a long long time myself, but every single WW i have met in a BG for as long as i can remember, has died, without me breaking much of a sweat. The only exception, is of course the people i know are very skilled at it. Some BG players on EU are well "known" for being WW afficionados, and they know what they are doing.

WW does not even make it on my top 10 list of builds, items or otherwise that are a nuisance in a BG.

Swomp23

Isth3reno1else made a couple of interesting videos about WW during the IC event. I suggest to everyone in here to go see his YT channel, it’s great. Basically, his conclusion is that WW is broken op in a group, but lackluster in solo play. With it’s only heal costing over 4k mag, you run oom after 3-4 heals and die, unless you spec in mag regen. And if you do so, you lose dmg. You dont kill a solo werewolf by depleting his health, you do so by depleting his magica.
On the other hand, in a group with a healer, WW has no big weakness and can wreck pretty much everything. His suggestion was to reduce his overall power, but also reduce the heal’s cost.

MentalxHammer

Werewolf is haxed

React

Werewolf is broken. Players can set up their WW builds with 40k+ HP, run a proc set or two, and stack everything else into regen without sacrificing any potential from their builds.

You get major AND minor defile off the spammable. The base morph applies diseased every time, and the morph applies major defile every time. You get a massive damage boost from the max stam and the WD modifier. You get 10k flat resistances. You get 30% movement speed. You have a hard CC, you have one of the strongest burst heals in the game, you have multiple dots, and now you can stay in WW form INDEFINITELY because of the changes they made to the passive as well as the pounce skill.

WW just gets way too much right now. All the other transformation ults in the game are short duration high cost skills to balance out the massive power increase they offer. For some reason, WW offers a superior power increase but can be maintained forever.

They really need to make some adjustments to WW. It's unbearable fighting a WW with even a slight idea what they're doing, because you simply cannot do anything to them in an outnumbered scenario and they are impacting you more heavily than almost any other spec you come across.

erio

All zos has to do is make imperial physique or whatever not work in ww form.

KharnTheUndying

I've always like werewolf lore in varies places but i have to admit they are op everywhere in this game now including vet/non vet/under 50 battlegrounds and the sewers my stam dk werewolf in battlegrounds went 26-0,23-0,16-0 and 23-1 with just shacklebreaker and new moon so it isn't the sets the passives,damage and tankiness in ww make it op.The last passive in ww "call of the pack" has been buffed and it lets you stay in werewolf forever in all my matches i didn't go out of werewolf form.I'm willing to admit that it is broken as in extremely powerful and needs a nerf play ww because you like the lore not because they are op.

Deathlord92

Werewolf is very op right now while vampire is terrible your actually gimping your self by playing a vampire. I really don’t understand why vampire is so weak when the expansion suppose to be about them but yh I’d much rather vampire be buffed by a lot then werewolf getting nerfed.

Attackopsn

Werewolf is way too tanky, they need to cut the *** and take the *** 10k resists and 10% damage reduction (~7k resists roughly) that they just get for free. You already get so much nonsense for being a one bar build a thumbless armless brainless single celled organism can play, why do they get more damage reduction than every set or build in the game from one passive within one ability?

Mystikkal

I mean if you are able to root a WW, they are straight outta luck. I run bombard on my stam sorc and WWs can't do a thing. They can roll dodge or use an immovable pot. Both of those options can only be used for so long.

Wolfpaw

WW solo is not op at all, a WW in a pack & you better run.

Just the way it should be.

BangX

Yep, overpowered and need a small nerf, 100% up time on major defile, minor maim and 10k+ resistance makes werewolf almost impossible to beat 1v1 or 2v1.

Cut the resistance to 5k and change major defile to minor and it would be balanced.

wheem_ESO

Mystikkal wrote: »

I mean if you are able to root a WW, they are straight outta luck. I run bombard on my stam sorc and WWs can't do a thing. They can roll dodge or use an immovable pot. Both of those options can only be used for so long.

Is everyone that isn't a Stam build supposed to just go pound sand? And I don't mean to sound salty here, but Bombard has been in need of substantial nerfing for like 2 or 3 years.

The amount of durability + damage + major defile on Werewolves is kind of absurd. It's also funny that they got buffed to such status during the "Vampire patch"...which also made Vampirism basically trash.

Zer0_CooL

It's common knowledge that WW is the bigest carry this patch.

Cathexis

Zer0_CooL wrote: »

It's common knowledge that WW is the bigest carry this patch.

This is the problem with werewolf in general I think, is that its either going to be very powerful, or not powerful enough. There is no in between.

It's an ult that consumes your whole bar, so either you are taking it as your power play.
or you are taking a more effective ult as your power play and keeping your bar.

The nature of werewolf just makes it impossible to make them equal, because if you make it competitive, then people are going to always be like "werewolf is a carry."

On the other hand, if you make werewolf a toggle (which is a thing Ive suggested many times in the past), then you can bring skills down proportionally because werewolf becomes utility. Say with a simple 300 to 450 ult threshold depending on the feel of it.

Joy_Division

blabafat wrote: »

Does anyone unironically think werewolf is balanced? Major beserk, perhaps the best heal in the game (much better than templar, the healing class in this game), major brutality, you get resources back for using that heal, major defile, increase movement speed, increase return on heavy attack, increase weapon damage by a flat 18 percent, increase resistances by 10K. Much more.

Vampire, up to 30% damage reduction if you're stage 3 or higher. While being at stage 3, you have 60% less health regen, increase cost of skills by 8%, increase fire damage taken by 13%.

Vampire ulti costs 281 at stage 3. Vampire ulti costs more if you're stage 1. Werewolf costs 300. You can literally stay in werewolf for a whole bg, like 10 plus minutes. You can die as a werewolf, and you will still be werewolf. Vampire ulti lasts 20 seconds, and there are so many downsides to vampire.

I legitimately could not imagine if anyone responds to this forum post and thinks that werewolf is balanced. It has insane healing, damage, buffs, major defile, etc.

????


https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Werewolf+Skills

The problem here is that it's an expensive ultimate that doesn't do anything on its own, so using it has to make the player stronger than what is "balanced."

And yes, the heal is ridiculous and puts to shame the "burst" heal of the "healer" class.

Fawn4287

The major issue is that with the way it works especially in IC, it is just an insanely overpowered buff which gives a character built like a tank the offensive stats of a 3 damage set build and the defence of 2 defensive sets. Combine it with something like imperial physique you can easily hit over 40k stam and 40k+ health. The ultimate really needs to just last for 20 seconds like every other transformation ult.

Weesacs

It should be powerful ... but then, it should be 20 seconds like vampire scion and necro goliath IMO.

Qbiken

Fawn4287 wrote: »

The major issue is that with the way it works especially in IC, it is just an insanely overpowered buff which gives a character built like a tank the offensive stats of a 3 damage set build and the defence of 2 defensive sets. Combine it with something like imperial physique you can easily hit over 40k stam and 40k+ health. The ultimate really needs to just last for 20 seconds like every other transformation ult.

LMAO no it doesn´t. With the defile nerfs next patch werewolf will struggle to kill anyone remotely tanky. Sure werewolfs will still be fairly tanky themselves, but will definetly struggle to apply enough pressure to kill someone who knows what they´re doing.

The only real change werewolf needs is a rework of the heal to scale of weapon damage and max stamina instead of max HP (which most people who plays werewolf would agree with would be a healthy change).

Ryuvain

And still no mention of werewolf weaknesses. Or that all their damage comes from sets.

JinxxND

I like where werewolf is at but it is pretty strong and abuseable in some cases I think they should increase the damage they take by poisons by at least double for how tanky they are to as for vampire they need to completely rework it or at least adjust it heavily when compared to werewolf, removing the cost increases but increased flame dmg and fighters guild maybe.

JinxxND

Anything in this game that is strong WILL be abused in some way or another doesn't matter if it's a stat set/proc set/etc so crying for nerfs just because something is strong and seems OP isn't the move as long as it doesn't insta gib and has legit means of counter play imo. Cause if you nerf ww it's going to become useless again which isn't good. For something that has 1 bar only a pretty crappy heal and can be abused with roots/snares but to compensate people usually build super tanky and with extremely high sustain they should def get poison dmg increased and possibly add disease dmg to that list and increase the dmg taken even more from those sources

SpiritofESO

Zeuq wrote: »

Werewolf is extremely broken, I don't understand how it hasn't been nerfed yet

Werewolf is obviously overpowered and you can expect an "adjustment" to bring it back down to reasonable limits.

My crystal ball shows weeping werewolves in the future.

Animus-ESO

In my opinion it isn't how op It is. The problem is how long it lasts. I've seen a WW stay in form for 10 mins during a 1v1 and the only reason I say 10 mins is because the non WW died. It is too easy to stay WW forever as long as ur in a fight.

yeyesil

WW is not broken. Everyone in cp and no cp PVP areas uses poison procs like syvarra and venomous smite. They will melt in seconds. My stamdk can also melts them easily. They cant even outheal my poison stamdk. Its a counterplay issue. If they go full offensive, they cant heal themselves forever. Also if you have low healing potential, you will be killed by double defile WWs easily. Meta is full proc tanky builds. If your build is squisy in this meta, you shouldnt cry on forums.

wheem_ESO

yeyesil wrote: »

WW is not broken. Everyone in cp and no cp PVP areas uses poison procs like syvarra and venomous smite. They will melt in seconds. My stamdk can also melts them easily. They cant even outheal my poison stamdk. Its a counterplay issue. If they go full offensive, they cant heal themselves forever. Also if you have low healing potential, you will be killed by double defile WWs easily. Meta is full proc tanky builds. If your build is squisy in this meta, you shouldnt cry on forums.

Not every class is actually capable of "playing the meta" currently - certainly not equally well, anyway. Werewolves, on the other hand, can have extremely high health with a HP-based heal, Major Defile, Minor Defile, and get lots of damage from procs. While it's true that poison procs are everywhere, I've seen numerous Werewolves still do quite well in BGs for the aforementioned reasons.

I wouldn't say that WW is the most egregiously overpowered thing in the game right now, by any means, but that doesn't mean that they couldn't use some adjustment. Though I suppose the upcoming defile nerfs may help quite a bit, and if certain sets ever get the developer attention that they deserve, WW itself might end up not needing much in the way of nerfs.

Xiomaro

A pretty effective counter to Werewolves is spamming CC on them. Their abilities are super expensive so if you force them to roll dodge to remove immobilize and break free from stuns, they won't have the stamina to go on the offense. I just Bombard/Streak spam Werewolves on my Stamsorc and I don't think a solo Werewolf has ever killed me. Even two Werewolves is doable for me, especially because I can actually outrun them if I have to as Stamsorc.

The 40k hp Werewolves with Engine Guardian are pretty damn hard to kill solo but they can't kill me either so it's just another stalemate match up.

I know not every class has access to easy roots/stuns but if you have poison damage and CC, Werewolves aren't a huge threat.