Do you want minor magickasteal nerfed?

Jodynn

Nairinhe

No

I don't want anything nerfed. Ever. Except, maybe, MHK

Vinterskald

Yes

Clicked the wrong option Of course I don't! I don't see a good reason to. It's not overperforming in any way.

Celestro

No

If Minor Intellect was a more accessible buff to a lot of magicka specs, it would be largely equivalent to how it is currently on live. But thats not the case, so no, would mostly prefer they revert the changes on the recovery buffs and Minor Magickasteal.

Wonder if Major Magickasteal will make an eventual appearance...

JanTanhide

No

Of course not. Why ask?

DocFrost72

I don't care

My main mag toon is a magblade. It's in my kit, and I like it. That said, it is a little strong right now.

Soundinfinite

Yes

It's not about it being strong...it's about it being a unneeded.....

You all need to zoom out for a moment and look at all the changes they made gamewide and see why they did this.

1) there is no major magicsteal and no minor/major stamina steal

2) It's main source Elemental Suceptibility is now a moot skill that will NOT be used in PVE and will be dropped in groups from healers. The skill is now a PVP only Mag DPS skill to strip armor on oponents...and there, the magicka steal isn't that important....it's not why you use the skill.

With Breach now penetrating both stats your tank will have it covered...combine that with the new ARENA Resto stave that turns a weak heal into a weak heal with stamina/magicka return (both stats not just 1 like magicka steal) this skill will now replace both the magicka return and Elemental Suceptibility.

3) Minor/Major Intellect and Endurance BOTH got buffed for 10/20 more regeneration for a new total of 30% more return....that's effing huge..they doubled them. And the major you can get popping a potion. Thus everyone will net a higher regeneration even without major magicka steal.

This seems like a lot of guffaw over a redundant stat that is mostly pointless for group content players and the game now with the other changes made....which I think is why they did it...to push these others sources that benifit both sides of the table (mag/Stam) and push the skill specifically for solo content players and PvP where the weidler would be magicka and the magicka steal would mean something. (And they don't have healers with resto staves that make-up the same stat)

Atherakhia

The problem with making the argument that it's unneeded is now you're making the argument that an entire skill/morph is also unneeded and in typical ZOS fashion, ignored. Perhaps something should be added to this poll/post to ask if Elemental Drain should now be improved/replaced with something more valuable? Considering Touch and Impulse are both more or less worthless without their corresponding weapon sets, having another skill's morph now being useless and the skill as a whole being more or less redundant in groups given how common major breach will be?

Jodynn

No

Soundinfinite wrote: »

It's not about it being strong...it's about it being a unneeded.....

You all need to zoom out for a moment and look at all the changes they made gamewide and see why they did this.

1) there is no major magicsteal and no minor/major stamina steal

2) It's main source Elemental Suceptibility is now a moot skill that will NOT be used in PVE and will be dropped in groups from healers. The skill is now a PVP only Mag DPS skill to strip armor on oponents...and there, the magicka steal isn't that important....it's not why you use the skill.

With Breach now penetrating both stats your tank will have it covered...combine that with the new ARENA Resto stave that turns a weak heal into a weak heal with stamina/magicka return (both stats not just 1 like magicka steal) this skill will now replace both the magicka return and Elemental Suceptibility.

3) Minor/Major Intellect and Endurance BOTH got buffed for 10/20 more regeneration for a new total of 30% more return....that's effing huge..they doubled them. And the major you can get popping a potion. Thus everyone will net a higher regeneration even without major magicka steal.

This seems like a lot of guffaw over a redundant stat that is mostly pointless for group content players and the game now with the other changes made....which I think is why they did it...to push these others sources that benifit both sides of the table (mag/Stam) and push the skill specifically for solo content players and PvP where the weidler would be magicka and the magicka steal would mean something. (And they don't have healers with resto staves that make-up the same stat)

1.) Stamina skills cost less, and sustaining as a stamina toon is just easier due to quicker heavy attacks and a better sustain food option.

2.) Ele drain was very important for magicka sustain for magDK in PvP, while I'm okay with it being transferred else where for using force siphon for healers, it is very incorrect to say it wasn't important. Also Force siphon has a morph for magickasteal as well.

3.) For intellect changes

You don't use sustain food for mag in trial context, you use Artaeum fish or bistat if you're using wal-mart food, minor intellect is few and far between, you'd need a warden healer to use spores or a sorc to shield every 10 seconds, so it's usually not existent at least not consistently, for major, before you have 20% now 40%.

So let's look at how much recovery we have for a magDK because frankly that's all I play

704 with the new major intellect, 910, the old was 694 and then 797 ( mystery where the 10 came from without the buff ), so every 2 seconds you gain 113, but from minor magickasteal you lose 132 * 2 = 264.. now that's if it's only one one enemy, if on multiple enemies you lose multiplicative based on how many there are.

jecks33

No

no!! i want sustain!! sustain atm is trash!!

NocturnalSonata

No

mag sustain has been iffy for a while now, and about to get even worse. Some classes are going to hurt.

Xebov

Yes

The regeneration buffs go from 10%/20% to 20%/40%. This easily makes up for the change and seems to be largely ignored. The other part is that stamina does not have a similar skill which makes it a one sided thing to begin with.

Jodynn

No

Xebov wrote: »

The regeneration buffs go from 10%/20% to 20%/40%. This easily makes up for the change and seems to be largely ignored. The other part is that stamina does not have a similar skill which makes it a one sided thing to begin with.

Refer to my above comment for a reasonable argument to this.

Soundinfinite

Yes

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Soundinfinite wrote: »

It's not about it being strong...it's about it being a unneeded.....

You all need to zoom out for a moment and look at all the changes they made gamewide and see why they did this.

1) there is no major magicsteal and no minor/major stamina steal

2) It's main source Elemental Suceptibility is now a moot skill that will NOT be used in PVE and will be dropped in groups from healers. The skill is now a PVP only Mag DPS skill to strip armor on oponents...and there, the magicka steal isn't that important....it's not why you use the skill.

With Breach now penetrating both stats your tank will have it covered...combine that with the new ARENA Resto stave that turns a weak heal into a weak heal with stamina/magicka return (both stats not just 1 like magicka steal) this skill will now replace both the magicka return and Elemental Suceptibility.

3) Minor/Major Intellect and Endurance BOTH got buffed for 10/20 more regeneration for a new total of 30% more return....that's effing huge..they doubled them. And the major you can get popping a potion. Thus everyone will net a higher regeneration even without major magicka steal.

This seems like a lot of guffaw over a redundant stat that is mostly pointless for group content players and the game now with the other changes made....which I think is why they did it...to push these others sources that benifit both sides of the table (mag/Stam) and push the skill specifically for solo content players and PvP where the weidler would be magicka and the magicka steal would mean something. (And they don't have healers with resto staves that make-up the same stat)

1.) Stamina skills cost less, and sustaining as a stamina toon is just easier due to quicker heavy attacks and a better sustain food option.

2.) Ele drain was very important for magicka sustain for magDK in PvP, while I'm okay with it being transferred else where for using force siphon for healers, it is very incorrect to say it wasn't important. Also Force siphon has a morph for magickasteal as well.

3.) For intellect changes

You don't use sustain food for mag in trial context, you use Artaeum fish or bistat if you're using wal-mart food, minor intellect is few and far between, you'd need a warden healer to use spores or a sorc to shield every 10 seconds, so it's usually not existent at least not consistently, for major, before you have 20% now 40%.

So let's look at how much recovery we have for a magDK because frankly that's all I play

704 with the new major intellect, 910, the old was 694 and then 797 ( mystery where the 10 came from without the buff ), so every 2 seconds you gain 113, but from minor magickasteal you lose 132 * 2 = 264.. now that's if it's only one one enemy, if on multiple enemies you lose multiplicative based on how many there are.

So,

So I stated that it is a PVP skill..and can be used as such to strip armor and provide the magicka steal in that situation where it works. In PVP you DO build for sustain or should be...and thus your magicka regeneration pool should be much larger than in a PVE setting, you should also be using a potion that grants Major Intellect and the 20% more magiakc regeneration on a considerably larger pool of magicka regeneration plus the nerfed magicka steal will likely equal the same results if not net a likely higher magicka regeneration return .....it's systems working together...instead of 1 skill alone.

Stamina sustain is not as simple as their skills cost less....and magicka steal was the magicka give to compensate for it....1) stamina is used for all stamina toons defensive maneuvers...block/roll dodge/ break free/ bash etc....this is why their skills cost is less and is the built in difference...2) in PVE they get better sustain becuase of 2 factors. A) they go 7 pieces medium...compared to 5-1-1 on magicka...why because they get more offensive stats (weapon crit) in doing so...magicka does not. Thus, they have more regeneration boost and more reduction of cost....if you put 7 prices all light on a magicka toon it turns a high elf into ALMOST a Breton's sustain. But you lose 4% max Magicka which is an offensive stat magicka uses.... most Stam races have health...and the main or "meta" Orc race for stam is one of them...this allows them to use regeneration food over bi-stat and still reach their health needed minimums....or use a race like redgaurd or wood elf wich have tons of sustain built in and go bi-stat. Also stamina has the same food options as magicka ( lava is marginally better than eye bowl but only marginally all other food sources are equal)

Again it is a system of factors comming together. Which is now what is happening on the magicka side as well.

You are also not factoring in Worm which is 145 magicka regeneration, that will now be buffed the additional 20% of major intellect as well + master resto staves regenerarion, the new ARENA weapon regeneration....etc...you will be covered in properly made groups to which the loss will be neglegable to none at all.

Or you could try going 6-1 or 7-0 in armor if you just feel you need that much sustain. Or go breton...or lord have mercy go regen food you have many options. But likely you are not going
to need them.

As far as granting the group magicka steal since elemental drain is dead in PVE...a Templar can grant it to an AOE of enemies in 1 button press with radiating aura....if it is really needed...makes Templar healers bring a bit more to the table.

LashanW

No

DocFrost72 wrote: »

My main mag toon is a magblade. It's in my kit, and I like it. That said, it is a little strong right now.

It's magblade sustain that is a little strong right now, not minor magicka steal.

DocFrost72

I don't care

Sound, with respect, it is definitely a conversation about strength.

A skill that the healer can slot (or if you're a mnb/solo mag player) that provides the equivalent of 600 magic regen. It is definitely very strong on live.

Do I think it needed adjustment? Dunno. Would someone saying it's too strong have a point?? Absolutely.

deleted221106-002999

No

Don't be silly.

Soundinfinite wrote:

...With Breach now penetrating both stats your tank will have it covered...

Tank with Pierce Armor already had it covered.

Jodynn

No

Soundinfinite wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Soundinfinite wrote: »

It's not about it being strong...it's about it being a unneeded.....

You all need to zoom out for a moment and look at all the changes they made gamewide and see why they did this.

1) there is no major magicsteal and no minor/major stamina steal

2) It's main source Elemental Suceptibility is now a moot skill that will NOT be used in PVE and will be dropped in groups from healers. The skill is now a PVP only Mag DPS skill to strip armor on oponents...and there, the magicka steal isn't that important....it's not why you use the skill.

With Breach now penetrating both stats your tank will have it covered...combine that with the new ARENA Resto stave that turns a weak heal into a weak heal with stamina/magicka return (both stats not just 1 like magicka steal) this skill will now replace both the magicka return and Elemental Suceptibility.

3) Minor/Major Intellect and Endurance BOTH got buffed for 10/20 more regeneration for a new total of 30% more return....that's effing huge..they doubled them. And the major you can get popping a potion. Thus everyone will net a higher regeneration even without major magicka steal.

This seems like a lot of guffaw over a redundant stat that is mostly pointless for group content players and the game now with the other changes made....which I think is why they did it...to push these others sources that benifit both sides of the table (mag/Stam) and push the skill specifically for solo content players and PvP where the weidler would be magicka and the magicka steal would mean something. (And they don't have healers with resto staves that make-up the same stat)

1.) Stamina skills cost less, and sustaining as a stamina toon is just easier due to quicker heavy attacks and a better sustain food option.

2.) Ele drain was very important for magicka sustain for magDK in PvP, while I'm okay with it being transferred else where for using force siphon for healers, it is very incorrect to say it wasn't important. Also Force siphon has a morph for magickasteal as well.

3.) For intellect changes

You don't use sustain food for mag in trial context, you use Artaeum fish or bistat if you're using wal-mart food, minor intellect is few and far between, you'd need a warden healer to use spores or a sorc to shield every 10 seconds, so it's usually not existent at least not consistently, for major, before you have 20% now 40%.

So let's look at how much recovery we have for a magDK because frankly that's all I play

704 with the new major intellect, 910, the old was 694 and then 797 ( mystery where the 10 came from without the buff ), so every 2 seconds you gain 113, but from minor magickasteal you lose 132 * 2 = 264.. now that's if it's only one one enemy, if on multiple enemies you lose multiplicative based on how many there are.

So,

So I stated that it is a PVP skill..and can be used as such to strip armor and provide the magicka steal in that situation where it works. In PVP you DO build for sustain or should be...and thus your magicka regeneration pool should be much larger than in a PVE setting, you should also be using a potion that grants Major Intellect and the 20% more magiakc regeneration on a considerably larger pool of magicka regeneration plus the nerfed magicka steal will likely equal the same results if not net a likely higher magicka regeneration return .....it's systems working together...instead of 1 skill alone.

Stamina sustain is not as simple as their skills cost less....and magicka steal was the magicka give to compensate for it....1) stamina is used for all stamina toons defensive maneuvers...block/roll dodge/ break free/ bash etc....this is why their skills cost is less and is the built in difference...2) in PVE they get better sustain becuase of 2 factors. A) they go 7 pieces medium...compared to 5-1-1 on magicka...why because they get more offensive stats (weapon crit) in doing so...magicka does not. Thus, they have more regeneration boost and more reduction of cost....if you put 7 prices all light on a magicka toon it turns a high elf into ALMOST a Breton's sustain. But you lose 4% max Magicka which is an offensive stat magicka uses.... most Stam races have health...and the main or "meta" Orc race for stam is one of them...this allows them to use regeneration food over bi-stat and still reach their health needed minimums....or use a race like redgaurd or wood elf wich have tons of sustain built in and go bi-stat. Also stamina has the same food options as magicka ( lava is marginally better than eye bowl but only marginally all other food sources are equal)

Again it is a system of factors comming together. Which is now what is happening on the magicka side as well.

You are also not factoring in Worm which is 145 magicka regeneration, that will now be buffed the additional 20% of major intellect as well + master resto staves regenerarion, the new ARENA weapon regeneration....etc...you will be covered in properly made groups to which the loss will be neglegable to none at all.

Or you could try going 6-1 or 7-0 in armor if you just feel you need that much sustain. Or go breton...you have many options. But likely you are not going to need them.

But those options take away damage sets healers can wear or a damage race, or max magicka for damage which damage is already lessened and hit harder than stamina with the light attack reduction, and further the fact in PvE stamina will be at more of an advantage because the main thing that magicka had over them was pen, which now with pen buffs they only have to account for around 3.2k penetration, which makes nightblades at the cap almost with their passive or an off hand sharp weapon is half that.

However the point about masters and new arena weapon are valid, and because of the breach changes healers could double bar resto staff and pull this off.

For PvP you don't have to build for sustain, it's a dynamic environment and you don't "need" to as you say "should", if you build correctly with factors like magickasteal, now I'm not sure if I'll be able to pull that off anymore and will have to see if I even want to continue using ele drain ( even with the new staff ), which it kind of the point, I don't want to see it be killed. But pierce armor is more tempting than that in PvP, and the resto staves for healers are more tempting than ele drain since off-balance is pretty easy to apply now, and the tank can provide breach.

Scion_of_Yggdrasil

I don't care

Mainly because I'm still waiting for staminasteal...

And better names than "resource" steal. We couldn't come up with something a bit more clever?

Vevvev

No

It's necessary for some builds in order to have a workable sustain, so no I don't want it nerfed.

BlackMadara

@brandoncoffmannub18_ESO iirc, magicka steal regen only applies once, no matter the amount of targets affected by it. Having it on 1 or 5 enemies doesn't matter, you will only get the regen per second as if you only had one target.

Jodynn

No

BlackMadara wrote: »

@brandoncoffmannub18_ESO iirc, magicka steal regen only applies once, no matter the amount of targets affected by it. Having it on 1 or 5 enemies doesn't matter, you will only get the regen per second as if you only had one target.

You are correct, my mistake.

relentless_turnip

I don't care

We just got a massive sustain buff and breach got a buff too. So it is a net gain imo...

stefj68

No

i know i dont want to, but they will do it anyway!

Apox

No

Minor endurance and Int is almost never accounted for theyre so rare. You go out of your way to get them and lose more than you gain.

The buff to Major int is barely enough to offset the nerf to magickasteal. Sustain is going to roughly stay the same as it is now, and the way it is now is god awful. Nobody wants to struggle with sustain or feel like theyre punished for not playing in a full trial group with 2 healers running symphony and hollowfang.

Xebov

Yes

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Xebov wrote: »

The regeneration buffs go from 10%/20% to 20%/40%. This easily makes up for the change and seems to be largely ignored. The other part is that stamina does not have a similar skill which makes it a one sided thing to begin with.

Refer to my above comment for a reasonable argument to this.

Stamina skills are cheaper because the resource is also used for sprinting and every other defensive move. So the skills have to be cheaper, especially when counting in that most stam builds are melee heavy.

Moving it from the drain to regen also makes sense because it forces players to build into some regen instead of relying on a free recharge from a skill that doesnt even cost resources.

mikey_reach

Yes

With the current power creep im all for it its an adaptable change anyways. I got through the nerfs that morrowind brought just fine, and i also got through the nerfs murkmire brought just fine too. Its was bound to happen sooner or later. Magicka steal along with everything else that is.

YandereGirlfriend

No

Soundinfinite wrote: »

It's not about it being strong...it's about it being a unneeded.....

You all need to zoom out for a moment and look at all the changes they made gamewide and see why they did this.

1) there is no major magicsteal and no minor/major stamina steal

2) It's main source Elemental Suceptibility is now a moot skill that will NOT be used in PVE and will be dropped in groups from healers. The skill is now a PVP only Mag DPS skill to strip armor on oponents...and there, the magicka steal isn't that important....it's not why you use the skill.

With Breach now penetrating both stats your tank will have it covered...combine that with the new ARENA Resto stave that turns a weak heal into a weak heal with stamina/magicka return (both stats not just 1 like magicka steal) this skill will now replace both the magicka return and Elemental Suceptibility.

3) Minor/Major Intellect and Endurance BOTH got buffed for 10/20 more regeneration for a new total of 30% more return....that's effing huge..they doubled them. And the major you can get popping a potion. Thus everyone will net a higher regeneration even without major magicka steal.

This seems like a lot of guffaw over a redundant stat that is mostly pointless for group content players and the game now with the other changes made....which I think is why they did it...to push these others sources that benifit both sides of the table (mag/Stam) and push the skill specifically for solo content players and PvP where the weidler would be magicka and the magicka steal would mean something. (And they don't have healers with resto staves that make-up the same stat)

In non-CP formats, where you don't have access to all of the free sustain stats of CP, Magickasteal is a huge deal for magDPS.

ExistingRug61

Soundinfinite wrote: »

1) stamina is used for all stamina toons defensive maneuvers...block/roll dodge/ break free/ bash etc....this is why their skills cost is less and is the built in difference...

Xebov wrote: »

Stamina skills are cheaper because the resource is also used for sprinting and every other defensive move. So the skills have to be cheaper, especially when counting in that most stam builds are melee heavy.

Just picking up on this argument which often comes up in the context of the stamina cost reduction. While this may be somewhat true in PvE environment, I don't think it really holds up in a PvP environment.

Obviously, magicka builds also need to use block/dodge/sprint/bash so this isn't exclusive to stamina builds. Now, they do use the "off" resource pool for a magicka build, and this is normally the justification for the cost reduction - stamina builds having to "reserve"/manage stamina for block/dodge/sprint/bash. However, in the PvP context, most stamina builds get to use their "off" pool for some defensive and utility skills, whereas magicka builds have to use their primary pool exclusively for this.

ie:
Magicka Builds
Magicka used for: Offensive skills, all defensive and utility skills
Stamina used for: Block/dodge/sprint/bash

Stamina Builds
Stamina used for: Offensive skills, some defensive and utility skills, block/dodge/sprint/bash
Magicka used for: Other defensive and utility skills

So now as a crude illustration we assume that

So if stamina builds get cost reduction because they have to "reserve"/manage stamina for block/dodge/sprint/bash, then wouldn't by the same logic magicka builds get some sort of sustain assistance because they have to "reserve"/manage magicka for the extra defensive and utility skills they have to use from their primary pool that stamina builds don't have to (because stamina builds can use their "off" pool for them)?

Now, I can also see the argument that stamina builds are often melee heavy and thus may need to block/dodge/sprint more often than ranged builds. However, being melee is not exclusive to stamina, and likewise being ranged is not exclusive to magicka. So if the argument is that being in melee means you need cheaper skills, wouldn't it then follow that we should instead have cost reduction on all melee range skills and not have it on any ranged skills (regardless of whether they are magicka or stamina)?

In fact, veiled strike/concealed weapon already gets the same cost reduction as stamina skills, so it seems that just for that specific case someone has followed this logic.

Back on to the actual topic of the change to minor magickasteal and whether it should be. I think currently the live value of the buff is what is somewhat keeping the balance between magicka and stamina sustain as it somewhat balances the stamina cost reduction (which I think isn't justified by the block/dodge/sprint/bash argument alone, as described above, and would be imbalanced in isolation), especially as the amount of resource returned by magickasteal on live per second (300) is quite similar to the amount of stamina saved by the generic stamina cost reduction every second using the base cost of a spammable after other cost reduction sources are applied (base spammables cost 2700 for magicka and 2295 for stamina, so a difference of 405, but this will be reduced due other cost reduction like armour passives affecting it).

Personally I don't mind actually mind if magickasteal is reduced (I don't really like it conceptually as a debuff) as long as some other change was made to address the resulting loss of magicka sustain to keep the balance between magicka and stamina sustain.


As a further aside, I also think there is an issue regarding the availability of minor intellect vs minor endurance (given these are now stronger and more valuable), as minor endurance is easily available to all stamina builds but the same is not true of minor intellect, at least in the context of PvP.

Banana

No

I play solo.