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Warden passive "Glacial Presence" and Minor Brittle

Enderp
Enderp
Soul Shriven
Current description of Glacial Presence passive:
Increase chance of applying Chilled to enemies with Winter's Embrace abilities by 200%. Enemies and allies who have recently been Chilled take 10% more Critical Damage and Healing from you.

Will this effect stack with minor brittle? Or will this passive be changed?
Edited by Enderp on September 21, 2020 6:18PM
  • Cinbri
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    Passive is unique moderate effect so it suppose to stack.
  • robpr
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    Since its not Minor Brittle itself, it should stack. The point is that you have to wield Frost staff, will the crit damage increase outweight the 8% single target bonus and 10% from DK Engulfing for Inferno?
  • MashmalloMan
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    robpr wrote: »
    Since its not Minor Brittle itself, it should stack. The point is that you have to wield Frost staff, will the crit damage increase outweight the 8% single target bonus and 10% from DK Engulfing for Inferno?

    Solo and 4 man dungeon mag ice wardens are definitely viable with the change, I'd argue probably stronger, it's really only in trials where it will be covered by a support role, making a magicka ice warden DD redundant.

    Honestly. ZOS needs to rework fire staves and provide other elemental damage increases to support a more varied playstyle. Shock staves on mag sorcs still have no place. Fire staff just trumps everything else, while also now having access to the first universal magicka execute skill.. It's a lame design that shoehorns all magicka players into 1 staff type, meanwhile stamina melee weapons have basic functions like Crit, Damage Done, Bleed and Penetration.
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  • CaffeinatedMayhem
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    Solo and 4 man dungeon mag ice wardens are definitely viable with the change, I'd argue probably stronger, it's really only in trials where it will be covered by a support role, making a magicka ice warden DD redundant.

    Honestly. ZOS needs to rework fire staves and provide other elemental damage increases to support a more varied playstyle. Shock staves on mag sorcs still have no place. Fire staff just trumps everything else, while also now having access to the first universal magicka execute skill.. It's a lame design that shoehorns all magicka players into 1 staff type, meanwhile stamina melee weapons have basic functions like Crit, Damage Done, Bleed and Penetration.

    Eh, I"d say only solo. Ice Warden will still be viable in 4 man, but not going to be used on high DPS runs.
    I do agree that elementals need to be reworked. There was a time when staff used depended on class, and now it's just all fire, even on a full AoE backbar.

    I'm going to keep mentioning Wartden's damage passives wrt Chilled in every post until the devs adjust it. MagDK has a similar passive - but how many viable ways does a magDK have to apply burning? A LOT. How many ways does Warden have to apply Chilled? as a PvE DPS... ONE, impaling shards. If a magden PvE DPS uses an ice back bar (or even an ice glyph), DPS is severely cut. And that's this patch, *prior* to the Wall of Elements nerf.

    So please @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RobGarrett or @ZOS_GinaBruno please ask someone to rework Warden's damage passives!
    Edited by CaffeinatedMayhem on September 21, 2020 7:03PM
  • Soundinfinite
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    @robpr

    The answer is no

    Brittle requires an ice stave active on your bar...the Warden passive shown above does not...its just ice damage done by a warden in any way no matter what weapon is equiped.

    Wardens also passively grant 10% more ice damage.

    Currently a warden can back bar an ice staff and equal to outpace a fire staff. As you would throw down wall of elements,( which was buffed 10% through warden passive equalling the 10% dk flame buff) and be able to proc the 10% critical damage of chilling enemies on top.

    However you still had to front bar a fire stave as light attacks are buffed 8% through the staves passive + the DK's 10% more flame damage buff for 18% more damage vs a wardens 10% more ice damage + random 10% more critical damage based on chilled.

    The content 18% more damage won out.

    Against THE iron atro target dummy which has 100% uptime of the dk flame buff, fire staves always win, front bar at least, on all classes...

    But on live if you don't have a DK providing the buff or they do a bad job keeping the buff up, the Warden is and has always been strongest by using all Ice staves anyway and no fire...just like a Necro is strongest with 2 lightning staves, and a sorcer strongest back barring lightning...again only if a dk is not in group providing the flame damage buff.

    Problem now thou is the completely uncalled for nerf to ice staves wall of elements by 25% it's atrocious and a horrible change...thus back barring an ice stave will no longer be functional on a warden. And it will be fire/fire all the time like all other classes....again zos continues to do a horrible job at diversifying sets and classes. (They robbed peter to pay Paul as the saying goes) thus the wardens 10 % more ice damage is a completely useless passive which is why no one remembers or cares they have it....it buffs 1 skill that they use....winters revenge.

    Brittle is group debuff...not individual. The warden's 10% is for the player only...(you only get the added benefit) however Brittle once applied gives the benifit to EVERYONE attacking the enemy.

    This means having a support character (tank/healer) apply the brittle and then everyone keeps using fire/fire (with a dk in the group) will now provide 18% more flame damage + brittle vs

    While the warden in an ice stave is getting 10% more ice damage + brittle + random warden chilled 10% damage.

  • irswat
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    good reason for tanks to run ice staff instead of lightning
    The Lord Jesus Christ saved me from sin and darkness. His love has transformed me so that I am a new creature in Him. May you find Him too, and experience His richness and goodness!
  • ESO_Nightingale
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    Solo and 4 man dungeon mag ice wardens are definitely viable with the change, I'd argue probably stronger, it's really only in trials where it will be covered by a support role, making a magicka ice warden DD redundant.

    Honestly. ZOS needs to rework fire staves and provide other elemental damage increases to support a more varied playstyle. Shock staves on mag sorcs still have no place. Fire staff just trumps everything else, while also now having access to the first universal magicka execute skill.. It's a lame design that shoehorns all magicka players into 1 staff type, meanwhile stamina melee weapons have basic functions like Crit, Damage Done, Bleed and Penetration.

    Eh, I"d say only solo. Ice Warden will still be viable in 4 man, but not going to be used on high DPS runs.
    I do agree that elementals need to be reworked. There was a time when staff used depended on class, and now it's just all fire, even on a full AoE backbar.

    I'm going to keep mentioning Wartden's damage passives wrt Chilled in every post until the devs adjust it. MagDK has a similar passive - but how many viable ways does a magDK have to apply burning? A LOT. How many ways does Warden have to apply Chilled? as a PvE DPS... ONE, impaling shards. If a magden PvE DPS uses an ice back bar (or even an ice glyph), DPS is severely cut. And that's this patch, *prior* to the Wall of Elements nerf.

    So please @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RobGarrett or @ZOS_GinaBruno please ask someone to rework Warden's damage passives!

    no, it's not the damage passives that need to be reworked, that's all we ever get, it's the skills themselves. birds is still poorly designed and most of warden's damage skills still deal magic damage, which shouldn't be the case, it's easy to justify it lorewise and balance wise. we also just lack quantity and quality damage skills. passive buffs are not the answer because our class has more of it's power shoved into passives than any other class. it is our skills that are the problem.
    Edited by ESO_Nightingale on September 26, 2020 5:51AM
    PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
  • Lughlongarm
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    I really was never sure about the healing part of the passive " 10% more Critical Damage and Healing from you". Does it work on self? You do extra healing while a friendly target is chilled?

    Edited by Lughlongarm on September 26, 2020 10:48AM
  • ESO_Nightingale
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    I really was never sure about the healing part of the passive " 10% more Critical Damage and Healing from you". Does it work on self? You do extra healing while a friendly target is chilled?

    since it states allies i'm not quite sure. never tested it, i didn't design that part of the buff.
    PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
  • Lughlongarm
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    I really was never sure about the healing part of the passive " 10% more Critical Damage and Healing from you". Does it work on self? You do extra healing while a friendly target is chilled?

    since it states allies i'm not quite sure. never tested it, i didn't design that part of the buff.

    :smiley:
  • lolo_01b16_ESO
    lolo_01b16_ESO
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    But on live if you don't have a DK providing the buff or they do a bad job keeping the buff up, the Warden is and has always been strongest by using all Ice staves anyway and no fire...just like a Necro is strongest with 2 lightning staves, and a sorcer strongest back barring lightning...again only if a dk is not in group providing the flame damage buff.
    Keep in mind that flame wall does 20% more damage against burning enemies, which happens quite frequently as many mag dds use a flame enchant on front bar (on top of other sources). So even without engulfing, flame wall will do more damage, no matter which class you play.
  • ESO_Nightingale
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    But on live if you don't have a DK providing the buff or they do a bad job keeping the buff up, the Warden is and has always been strongest by using all Ice staves anyway and no fire...just like a Necro is strongest with 2 lightning staves, and a sorcer strongest back barring lightning...again only if a dk is not in group providing the flame damage buff.
    Keep in mind that flame wall does 20% more damage against burning enemies, which happens quite frequently as many mag dds use a flame enchant on front bar (on top of other sources). So even without engulfing, flame wall will do more damage, no matter which class you play.

    yeah that's the annoying thing, unstable frost wall shouldn't be given utility over damage, personally, i think that unstable wall of frost should deal +10% damage at all times instead of being nerfed by 25%, it was already the worst damaging wall.
    PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
  • Lughlongarm
    Lughlongarm
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    But on live if you don't have a DK providing the buff or they do a bad job keeping the buff up, the Warden is and has always been strongest by using all Ice staves anyway and no fire...just like a Necro is strongest with 2 lightning staves, and a sorcer strongest back barring lightning...again only if a dk is not in group providing the flame damage buff.
    Keep in mind that flame wall does 20% more damage against burning enemies, which happens quite frequently as many mag dds use a flame enchant on front bar (on top of other sources). So even without engulfing, flame wall will do more damage, no matter which class you play.

    yeah that's the annoying thing, unstable frost wall shouldn't be given utility over damage, personally, i think that unstable wall of frost should deal +10% damage at all times instead of being nerfed by 25%, it was already the worst damaging wall.

    Ya, I think this was not part of your design as well. DPS Warden will keep on using Fire+Lightning , while Tank the Brittle debuff will be the tank or healer responsibility. Warden tanks can just use Gripping Shards and avoid frost wall altogether.
  • ESO_Nightingale
    ESO_Nightingale
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    But on live if you don't have a DK providing the buff or they do a bad job keeping the buff up, the Warden is and has always been strongest by using all Ice staves anyway and no fire...just like a Necro is strongest with 2 lightning staves, and a sorcer strongest back barring lightning...again only if a dk is not in group providing the flame damage buff.
    Keep in mind that flame wall does 20% more damage against burning enemies, which happens quite frequently as many mag dds use a flame enchant on front bar (on top of other sources). So even without engulfing, flame wall will do more damage, no matter which class you play.

    yeah that's the annoying thing, unstable frost wall shouldn't be given utility over damage, personally, i think that unstable wall of frost should deal +10% damage at all times instead of being nerfed by 25%, it was already the worst damaging wall.

    Ya, I think this was not part of your design as well. DPS Warden will keep on using Fire+Lightning , while Tank the Brittle debuff will be the tank or healer responsibility. Warden tanks can just use Gripping Shards and avoid frost wall altogether.

    all the tank really needs to proc brittle on bosses is the frost damage glyph and 2 frost staves, as long as they have that, they can consistently proc it by having the charged trait on their wall bar, they don't need gripping shards. Our suggestion was +8% critical damage on ancient knowledge. not having a unique debuff on frost damage with a frost staff equipped, so that definitely wasn't our design, but in my opinion it's close enough.

    The biggest thing now is getting frost dps viable in trials, and the ways to do that are to assist magden/frostden by changing some, or all of it's animal companion damage skills to deal frost damage, increase unstable wall of frost's damage to be more consistent with the other dps walls, and requiring both tanks to want to use at least 1 sword and shield. though i'm sure that frost dps will now be accepted in non score running content if the individual can pull high enough damage while keeping consistent uptime on brittle for groups. right now frostden's claim to fame is consistency of chilled uptime to groups.

    i feel relatively safe in calling frostden a new archetype.

    edit: words, i'm exhausted.
    Edited by ESO_Nightingale on September 26, 2020 1:11PM
    PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
  • Lughlongarm
    Lughlongarm
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    But on live if you don't have a DK providing the buff or they do a bad job keeping the buff up, the Warden is and has always been strongest by using all Ice staves anyway and no fire...just like a Necro is strongest with 2 lightning staves, and a sorcer strongest back barring lightning...again only if a dk is not in group providing the flame damage buff.
    Keep in mind that flame wall does 20% more damage against burning enemies, which happens quite frequently as many mag dds use a flame enchant on front bar (on top of other sources). So even without engulfing, flame wall will do more damage, no matter which class you play.

    yeah that's the annoying thing, unstable frost wall shouldn't be given utility over damage, personally, i think that unstable wall of frost should deal +10% damage at all times instead of being nerfed by 25%, it was already the worst damaging wall.

    Ya, I think this was not part of your design as well. DPS Warden will keep on using Fire+Lightning , while Tank the Brittle debuff will be the tank or healer responsibility. Warden tanks can just use Gripping Shards and avoid frost wall altogether.

    all the tank really needs to proc chilled on bosses is the frost damage glyph and 2 frost staves, as long as they have that, they can consistently proc it by having the charged trait on their wall bar, they don't need gripping shards. Our suggestion was +8% critical damage on ancient knowledge. not having a unique debuff on frost damage with a frost staff equipped, so that definitely wasn't our design, but in my opinion it's close enough.

    The biggest thing now is getting frost dps viable in trials, and the ways to do that are to assist magden/frostden by changing some, or all of it's animal companion damage skills to deal frost damage, increase unstable wall of frost's damage to be more consistent with the other dps walls, and requiring both tanks to want to use at least 1 sword and shield. though i'm sure that frost dps will now be accepted in non score running content if the individual can pull high enough damage while keeping consistent uptime on brittle for groups. right now frostden's claim to fame is consistency of chilled uptime to groups.

    i feel relatively safe in calling frostden a new archetype.

    edit: words, i'm exhausted.

    From what I could tell, the way it works on PTS atm is that the only requirement to apply brittle is that the skill that applies the chill will be activated from the Ice staff bar and will consist with any weapon swap and will work with any kind of skill that can apply chill(some skills are bugged ATM). So you can go frost back bar 1H+Shield front bar. Glyph is nice but less effective vs big pulls.
  • ESO_Nightingale
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    But on live if you don't have a DK providing the buff or they do a bad job keeping the buff up, the Warden is and has always been strongest by using all Ice staves anyway and no fire...just like a Necro is strongest with 2 lightning staves, and a sorcer strongest back barring lightning...again only if a dk is not in group providing the flame damage buff.
    Keep in mind that flame wall does 20% more damage against burning enemies, which happens quite frequently as many mag dds use a flame enchant on front bar (on top of other sources). So even without engulfing, flame wall will do more damage, no matter which class you play.

    yeah that's the annoying thing, unstable frost wall shouldn't be given utility over damage, personally, i think that unstable wall of frost should deal +10% damage at all times instead of being nerfed by 25%, it was already the worst damaging wall.

    Ya, I think this was not part of your design as well. DPS Warden will keep on using Fire+Lightning , while Tank the Brittle debuff will be the tank or healer responsibility. Warden tanks can just use Gripping Shards and avoid frost wall altogether.

    all the tank really needs to proc chilled on bosses is the frost damage glyph and 2 frost staves, as long as they have that, they can consistently proc it by having the charged trait on their wall bar, they don't need gripping shards. Our suggestion was +8% critical damage on ancient knowledge. not having a unique debuff on frost damage with a frost staff equipped, so that definitely wasn't our design, but in my opinion it's close enough.

    The biggest thing now is getting frost dps viable in trials, and the ways to do that are to assist magden/frostden by changing some, or all of it's animal companion damage skills to deal frost damage, increase unstable wall of frost's damage to be more consistent with the other dps walls, and requiring both tanks to want to use at least 1 sword and shield. though i'm sure that frost dps will now be accepted in non score running content if the individual can pull high enough damage while keeping consistent uptime on brittle for groups. right now frostden's claim to fame is consistency of chilled uptime to groups.

    i feel relatively safe in calling frostden a new archetype.

    edit: words, i'm exhausted.

    From what I could tell, the way it works on PTS atm is that the only requirement to apply brittle is that the skill that applies the chill will be activated from the Ice staff bar and will consist with any weapon swap and will work with any kind of skill that can apply chill(some skills are bugged ATM). So you can go frost back bar 1H+Shield front bar. Glyph is nice but less effective vs big pulls.

    thanks for telling me this, i just tested in game and applied brittle with a fire staff equipped, this looks very much like a bug as it goes against how they advertised it, that's super unfortunate for frostden viability.

    if this was fixed, frostden's main claim to fame would be chilled uptime on groups, giving shalks frost damage would actually help a lot for group brittle. We just need to ensure that the bug you just mentioned is fixed, and that frostden's damage is roughly on par, or only a little less than magden, the best way to achieve that right now is to buff up unstable wall by 35% damage (that includes 10% on the explosion).
    Edited by ESO_Nightingale on September 26, 2020 1:39PM
    PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
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