Zos Logic..........

solasub

"Players with builds that aren’t 100% optimized will see an increase in power, while players utilizing all Majors/Minors at once in coordinated efforts will see a decrease in power."


how many players they will loose?

Nairinhe

How many players they will gain?
Raising floor, lowering ceiling. While I can understand frustration of minmaxers, I'd very much like to see fun having a priority before builds optimisation and meta-worshipping. It's a game, not a job, after all

[Edit to remove bait]

solasub

it's not about being a job ; have you ever seen another game where you LOOSE power as you optimize yourself??????
It's about simple logic

VaranisArano

Probably not too many.

This is the sort of nerf that's aimed at teams of players who can maximize their major/minors. So if you are pushing trials with a coordinated team or running in organized raids in PVP, this'll be just another shifting meta to adapt to.

Vevvev

You can never stop the min/maxers though. If you make a fully optimized build weaker then its obviously no longer fully optimized. They will adapt and change until they achieve the pinnacle of what they can squeeze out of the system.

idk

solasub wrote: »

it's not about being a job ; have you ever seen another game where you LOOSE power as you optimize yourself??????
It's about simple logic

I have seen games that used diminishing returns to push players to layout stats differently.

Hurbster

Well, WoW had the same thing the more jewellery you had equipped. Got raked over the coals for it too.

Starlight_Whisper

It's better as the top can't dictate as much what is best for each group.

RogueShark

I don't think it's going to be that impactful. I get the feeling they're going to do stuff like... combining minor/major buffs?

So for example: a group who wants both minor prophecy and minor savagery needs to have a Nightblade and a Sorc. They're 'optimizing' their group to get the buffs they want in that regard. But if minor prophecy and minor savagery are combined, you would only need one or the other and not feel obligated to bring both. Or if they don't have someone who likes to play sorc, no problem, the person likes nb better and so they can bring nb instead of being forced to bring sorc for minor prophecy.

But then you end up with situations of 'this class provides both buffs we need/want as well as being higher dps, so we have no reason to bring this other class'. So who knows.

tinythinker

idk wrote: »

solasub wrote: »

it's not about being a job ; have you ever seen another game where you LOOSE power as you optimize yourself??????
It's about simple logic

I have seen games that used diminishing returns to push players to layout stats differently.

ESO used to do this at launch with soft caps on many stats, as I'm sure you recall.

zvavi

Yey, we are heading into 3 necro + 5 NB meta even more, will be great that some classes will have even harder time getting into trials

And for whoever thinking that the top would not dictate the "better classes" with such a change, is wildly wrong, it will be back to "strongest class is best" mentality instead of "every class can bring something to group", they just sugar coated the words to make it sound more appealing to casuals. You can already see in this thread people that got "persuaded" by them, believing they will actually get stronger, instead of understanding their favourite class will bring less to the group. I know that I will probably need to stop bringing my sorc to trials when the change will hit.

crjs1

It’s absolutely the right move, the game should not be directed by min maxers it should cater for the bulk of the playerbase. Far far more people will benefit from the changes than a minority that will loose a tiny bit of power. It’s not like current optimum builds are going to be trash or anything

Jaimeh

Min-maxers will adapt, but I wish ZOS' message would be for once: 'we like to reward effort', because it seems they are doing the exact opposite bit by bit for some time now...

tmbrinks

loose is the opposite of tight.

lose is the word we are all looking for....

Anyways, There will ALWAYS be a meta, ALWAYS be a "best" setup. Nothing will change that short of complete and utter homogenization.

Strider__Roshin

Just when you thought the game couldn't get any more casual friendly.

Dusk_Coven

How do you gain power when you are not already using something they are taking away?

Anyway, it is more likely the case that Minor X was never intended to stack with Major X and they didn't know how to fix it... until now.

redspecter23

I'm going to wait to see the numbers before making a decision on how it affects the game as a whole as well as the game I play and the people I play it with.

If what they are saying is true and it's only the absolute min/max 100% uptime players being affected, then it will likely not affect many at all. They won't "loose" more than a handful of players.

However, if it's a much wider nerf, they may start to lose support of a larger amount of players. We won't know until we see the patch notes with the actual numbers. We can't draw any conclusions without the data.

OmniDo

VaranisArano wrote: »

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

OmniDo wrote: »

Red_Feather wrote: »

min maxers have a disease. A mentality that erodes the quality of any game they get addicted to. Normalization threatens that sickness. Good.

*Blinks*
Darwin would be turning over in his grave.
I guess it's a good thing that this mentality is not only historically accurate, but supported by reality, and thankfully, normalization is only a transient hiccup along the way.

Otherwise Dinosaurs, bacteria, heck, even viruses would have reigned supreme and we never would have existed at all.

Let Darwin rest in his grave.

This is a video game to have fun. Not some real-life competition.

Good thing video game players never have competitions for fun...

Yeah seriously.
It's like mediocrity is a desired infection these days.
Who wants that?
If you're going to normalize, then normalize excellence, not it's antithesis.

Look, if a certain percentage of players want to remain mediocre and still have their fun, then all power to them.
They don't have to do veteran dungeons, hard modes, challengers, or trifectas.
They can piddle along in their normal dungeons and have just as much fun.

But for those of us who pursue excellence and achievement, you know, like Olympic athletes, let the gold medals remain.
All others can have all the bronze they want, just don't force others to be subject to their limitations.

Aznarb

I don't see problem with that.
That won't get "bad" player beating all trial HM as the patch drop.
It just gonna made some fun build more useable and that good.

In any game meta is a bad thing where only few player really understand and use it well.
Any content of a game should be doable for the majority.
So it should be hard and getting lot of effort in it, but not stupidly hard like god slayer and thing like this where only 2-3% of the player base can do it.
What is the point of releasing thing, putting effort on creating thing and paying for it if the majority can't ?

This game has so much power creep these years and so much mechanic are not logic, weaving, anim'cute, bash cut, etc.. and not explained well anywhere, same for rotation, use of dot etc.., lot of player have no clue of it and that why the average level of player is so bad in this game.

Until they fix all of this, all the rest is pointless.
I'm glad I can do all trial hm and many hard success, sadly lot of player can't and I feel them.

SamanthaCarter

Lot of bad players can do all trial hm .. wake up

Taleof2Cities

It's funny how some players jump all over a single sentence in ESO Live without having tested the changes in a live coordinated environment.

But then, when the discussion shifts to the power creep, all you hear from those same players are crickets.

zvavi

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

It's funny how some players jump all over a single sentence in ESO Live without having tested the changes in a live coordinated environment.

But then, when the discussion shifts to the power creep, all you hear from those same players are crickets.

When they stop balancing current content around current power level, sure, address power creep.

eKsDee

crjs1 wrote: »

It’s absolutely the right move, the game should not be directed by min maxers it should cater for the bulk of the playerbase. Far far more people will benefit from the changes than a minority that will loose a tiny bit of power. It’s not like current optimum builds are going to be trash or anything

When the bulk of the playerbase wants all challenge removed so that the game offers story and only story, no, it shouldn't cater for the bulk of the playerbase.

The problem with Zenimax's "raise the floor, lower the ceiling" is both sides are at extremes. The ceiling is astronomically high because they have the knowledge to optimise their builds, playstyles and group compositions, but at the same time, the floor is astronomically low because they lack that knowledge, and, more importantly, they don't want that knowledge in the first place.

The game should be balanced around those in the middle who want to better themselves, who want to have to put effort into their gameplay, who just aren't quite there yet. But that won't happen, because the absolute floor contributes the most to revenue, and so it goes against Zenimax's bottom line to balance the game against them.