make Shade tp to need line of sight to cast

Sergykid

i can confirm what i wrote. I had a nightblade i used as a mule for hireling mails (no eso+).
i geared it firstly with acuity and darloc brae, and currently i use caalurion instead (not much better but better).

i can confirm that using Shade teleport i cannot be the loser. It's either a draw because i can't win, either i win.

Also i can say that the class is extremely strong. I have been playing templar main on pvp a few years, getting a kda of 2.3-1, meaning the average BG score would be 12 kills with 5 deaths.
Even tho i am not begginer to pvp, i am beginner with using a NB on pvp. But the results were very pleasant so far. I had scores of 25-2, 35-0, 38-1, 20-4, and so on.
I understand that this may be because since i freshly started with the character, it has low MMR. But i have been playing it since my last post (a week ago) and won several battlegrounds, and did not see a difference in opponents difficulty. I do meet the cliche opponents that use the meta proc sets and tanks that don't die but have high damage.
Cloak is simply an amazing defense tool, and rarely someone use detection, and if they do, i Shade away.
Usually my playstyle is that i leave Shade behind a pillar, go in and do NB stuff, if i kill ok, if i fail i teleport away and safe again.

the only minuses i noticed are the slow projectile speed and everything i use is dodgeable (except Fear but it's melee range), i always draw matches against rollies. I only die against multiple opponents that actually know to follow the Shade, or because i ignore an attacker.

HiroTenKai

I am sensing a lot of tears and unfathomable sadness in here and I think the Dev Team or Community Managers may need to make a safe space for all of you folks so that you can feel better. I want you all of you to know you matter too. So cheer up sad ones I care about your feelings!

erio

Steak doesnt have a counter. If you remove shade youre adding a los req nightblades lose their most defensive skill.

Sergykid

erio wrote: »

Steak doesnt have a counter. If you remove shade youre adding a los req nightblades lose their most defensive skill.

as the sorc spams streak, so you can spam a gap closer
buff NBs healing or something, i don't mind NB being buffed for defenses, i talk about things that settle the loser, in this case Shade does not have a counter so the Shade user will never be the loser in 1v1

HankTwo

In a 1v1 with objects around shade used by a competent player has indeed no clear counter. Then again, if any build thats faster than your own decides to constantly break LOS during a duel you will also have a very hard time.

While making shade require direct LOS to cast the teleport would solve this issue, it would also make this skill much less used and arguably underbudgeted (compared to say streak). So I don't think its a good solution. A long time ago I also discussed this topic on the forum, and the most creative solution we came up with was to give shade a unique synergy, which would be useable by ally or enemy alike, and allow a single player to teleport with the NB, whoever uses it first.

That being said, with the current state of the game and some of the new upcoming changes, I think there are a lot more pressing issues than shade right now.

Sergykid

HankTwo wrote: »

In a 1v1 with objects around shade used by a competent player has indeed no clear counter. Then again, if any build thats faster than your own decides to constantly break LOS during a duel you will also have a very hard time.

While making shade require direct LOS to cast the teleport would solve this issue, it would also make this skill much less used and arguably underbudgeted (compared to say streak). So I don't think its a good solution. A long time ago I also discussed this topic on the forum, and the most creative solution we came up with was to give shade a unique synergy, which would be useable by ally or enemy alike, and allow a single player to teleport with the NB, whoever uses it first.

That being said, with the current state of the game and some of the new upcoming changes, I think there are a lot more pressing issues than shade right now.

you are right and the synergy solution sounds good. What do you say about a verticality approach? Shade remains the same for a horizontal field (with a +/- 5 meters i would say) but you can't teleport anymore above your head on a tower, keep, mountain, etc. This would require too many calculations i suppose.

HankTwo

Sergykid wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

In a 1v1 with objects around shade used by a competent player has indeed no clear counter. Then again, if any build thats faster than your own decides to constantly break LOS during a duel you will also have a very hard time.

While making shade require direct LOS to cast the teleport would solve this issue, it would also make this skill much less used and arguably underbudgeted (compared to say streak). So I don't think its a good solution. A long time ago I also discussed this topic on the forum, and the most creative solution we came up with was to give shade a unique synergy, which would be useable by ally or enemy alike, and allow a single player to teleport with the NB, whoever uses it first.

That being said, with the current state of the game and some of the new upcoming changes, I think there are a lot more pressing issues than shade right now.

you are right and the synergy solution sounds good. What do you say about a verticality approach? Shade remains the same for a horizontal field (with a +/- 5 meters i would say) but you can't teleport anymore above your head on a tower, keep, mountain, etc. This would require too many calculations i suppose.

I don't really see a fundamental difference between breaking LOS with shade on a horizontal vs a vertical plane. At best the latter requires a bit more time to walk around for the other player but thats about it.

Honestly, the whole shade thing is just a big conflict of interest for me. On one hand you have a unique skill that gives a lot of class identity, which is definitely a good thing, while on the other hand its a skill that under certain circumstances can pretty much not be countered well, which imo is bad.At this point I'm not really sure if it should be fundamentally changed at all. In the past you had ZOS removing unique class skill effects that were hard to counter like DK wings for example, and those changes were generally badly received. For the sake of class fairness, they could remove shade as it functions right now as well, but wouldnt this approach in the end just make the game worse and worse? Maybe they should start giving other classes more unique flavour back, but as I said, I'm not really sure whats best in this case.

Another possible softer solution without destroying the uniqueness of shade would be a) to remove cc immunity from caster whenever he teleports and b) allowing the warden portal skill (frozen gate + morphs) to also function through objects. I mean if shade is allowed to do this I dont see why the warden skill shouldnt be able to do it as well (as long as it doesnt work through keep walls). This would at least give one class a direct shade counter.

hakan

cloak is *** when you get 1vXed even in battlegrounds. why take away the shade too? class has low defense already, evading is the only mitigation.

Grianasteri

Nah, that kinda defeats part of its purpose, to tp out of danger.

It would make it a far far less viable skill, think about in buildings and keeps in Cyro, or think about Imp City, or Imp Sewers... Itd make it pretty difficult to use.

Casul

First they bury my warden, now they wanna bury my nightblade. The woes.

erio

Sergykid wrote: »

erio wrote: »

Steak doesnt have a counter. If you remove shade youre adding a los req nightblades lose their most defensive skill.

as the sorc spams streak, so you can spam a gap closer
buff NBs healing or something, i don't mind NB being buffed for defenses, i talk about things that settle the loser, in this case Shade does not have a counter so the Shade user will never be the loser in 1v1

Most builds dont run a gap closer. shade does have a counter, called having someone sit on the shade.

Sergykid

erio wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

erio wrote: »

Steak doesnt have a counter. If you remove shade youre adding a los req nightblades lose their most defensive skill.

as the sorc spams streak, so you can spam a gap closer
buff NBs healing or something, i don't mind NB being buffed for defenses, i talk about things that settle the loser, in this case Shade does not have a counter so the Shade user will never be the loser in 1v1

Most builds dont run a gap closer. shade does have a counter, called having someone sit on the shade.

read again my last 9 words ...
and i talk here about having or not a counter, most people don't run detection either but Cloak is fine

Ariades_swe

Look at all the carried nbs replying to this thread.
😄😄😄

MincVinyl

Ever play solo and have 4 nbs just hoping their incaps somehow lineup to kill you while they just roll cloak shade for literally 30 mins straight?

I have and I honestly could care less if that is how those nbs play because they are otherwise useless and hardly posed a threat even together. Maybe if nb wasn't absolute bottom tier then yeah I suppose something could change

Nova_J

Yea no, NB has to many other issues. Work on those before you start trying to issue bad changes to a skill just because its frustrating to go against. With your suggestion gap closers would hard counter this skill severely. Doesnt matter if you increase the duration,damage or whatever, making it LOS is bs.

Recapitated

Is it used often enough that a ramping cost would help? Not necessarily the same timer as dodge and streak.