Add targeting requirement to Sorcerer Streak.

Vevvev

kingsforged wrote: »

1)The stun cc CAN'T be blocked, it's literally in the tooltip.

Had to look back at this and you're right. Learn something new every day so all those times I thought I blocked they missed. Good to know.

kingsforged wrote: »

Your example here is purely against a weakened sorcerer attempting to escape, which is only a part of what I'm talking about. This ability doesn't stack up when compared to other similar abilities in terms of it's usefulness and ease of use.

And this is wrong. I was facing a full HP sorc trying to bait me away from my group, and I gladly took the bait because I don't fear them. I'm a Breton Dragonknight which means I have a ton of spell resistance that just comes naturally, I make sure I constantly have enough stamina to break free, and when I get my hands on them they don't live long when I fossilize them and apply all my DoTs. Even if they manage to streak away they still continue to burn to a crisp.

Edit: And I also have Leap which is a skill that has gotten threads similar to yours calling for it to get nerfed into the dirt. Gap closer, damage, stun, and a shield if I go Ferocious Leap! Add on the Battle Roar passive and it also becomes a resource restore tool and heal. Sorcerers are as good as dead when you build to counter them.

kingsforged

Xvorg wrote: »

kingsforged wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Streak is not as good as you make it out to be. It's pretty bad at sustained distance over time and the stun can be blocked. It's more of a burst speed skill and reminds me of the Aeldari in Battle fleet Gothic Armada. They are super fast in bursts, but the moment their foes charge at them with more efficient speed boosts they'll be unable to get away.

That's how I take Sorcerers on when they use streak. Block when I can, use abilities like Race Against Time to go after them, and have some way of doing ranged damage to not give them a break. (If possible you can use a pull on them or a gap closer of your own.) Restoration staff's attacks, lightning staff's heavy attacks, and the Destruction Staff spammable don't count as projectiles and won't get absorbed by the one morph of Streak. There are plenty of counters to streak in this game, you just have to utilize them.

1)The stun cc CAN'T be blocked, it's literally in the tooltip.
2) Compared to the other similar abilities in the game, it's far more powerful.
3) Any good sorcerer will use either 2 streaks or a streak into a dodge roll, breaking targeting and moving outside of range/breaking line of sight (assuming their intention is to escape and not to simply cc and create distance for an attack).

Your example here is purely against a weakened sorcerer attempting to escape, which is only a part of what I'm talking about. This ability doesn't stack up when compared to other similar abilities in terms of it's usefulness and ease of use.

Again, if this ability ISN'T so powerful, it shouldn't be an issue for other classes to get access to similar skills.

Any good nightblade uses cloak after a dodgeroll, so let's nerf cloak por doing exactly what it has to do, breaking targeting.

Any good sorc breaks targeting with streak + dodgeroll, so let's nerf streak for doing exactly what it's meant to do, allowing the ranged class to escape danger.

Your mindset is the very same some guys used to ask for nerf on DKs wings, and after it was done, then they were complaining because there was too much ranged CC. So ranged CC was nerfed the next patch and a lot of builds were destroyed. If you nerf streak bear in mind that the consequences will impact us all because sorcs cannot live without a gap opener. That will mean that all the skill that increase speed and even gap closers will get a compensation nerf so sorcs can be viable.

People here do not complain about streak, maybe because they learnt how to deal with the skill instead of asking for nerfs. If you want to improve, well, just follow the advice of Britney: You got to work...

Sorcerer ISN'T the only ranged class AND stamina sorcerers can use streak just as readily since it scales, yet it's the only one that has this movement ability. And you've just completely ignored the other part about changing other gap closers to be more similar.

What about anything OTHER than nightblades? Because that's the only class anyone seems to have really mentioned as having anything remotely similar.

Again, EVERY pvp sorc build, stam or mag, runs streak - because it's that much better than any other similar ability.

kingsforged

Vevvev wrote: »

kingsforged wrote: »

1)The stun cc CAN'T be blocked, it's literally in the tooltip.

Had to look back at this and you're right. Learn something new every day so all those times I thought I blocked they missed. Good to know.

kingsforged wrote: »

Your example here is purely against a weakened sorcerer attempting to escape, which is only a part of what I'm talking about. This ability doesn't stack up when compared to other similar abilities in terms of it's usefulness and ease of use.

And this is wrong. I was facing a full HP sorc trying to bait me away from my group, and I gladly took the bait because I don't fear them. I'm a Breton Dragonknight which means I have a ton of spell resistance that just comes naturally, I make sure I constantly have enough stamina to break free, and when I get my hands on them they don't live long when I fossilize them and apply all my DoTs. Even if they manage to streak away they still continue to burn to a crisp.

Edit: And I also have Leap which is a skill that has gotten threads similar to yours calling for it to get nerfed into the dirt. Gap closer, damage, stun, and a shield if I go Ferocious Leap! Add on the Battle Roar passive and it also becomes a resource restore tool and heal. Sorcerers are as good as dead when you build to counter them.

You can't compare an ultimate that DOES require targeting to a spammable skill. Another 25 ultimate cost to Leap frankly doesn't seem too crazy either.

And again, you're literally comparing 1 class and build. This isn't a 1 to 1 comparison, this is comparing similar skills and their utility, and streak doesn't match up in its versatility and ease of use.

This isn't a "how to kill sorcs" thread.

Vevvev

kingsforged wrote: »

This isn't a "how to kill sorcs" thread.

Actually it is considering how Streak is one of the last things they have access to other classes do not. Streak has already been changed and balanced multiple times over the years as the combat had evolved.

kingsforged

Vevvev wrote: »

kingsforged wrote: »

This isn't a "how to kill sorcs" thread.

Actually it is considering how Streak is one of the last things they have access to other classes do not. Streak has already been changed and balanced multiple times over the years as the combat had evolved.

Really? Because I don't see any other class capable of running around with up to 4 summoned pets, yet not every sorc runs pets... but they ALL run streak in PVP.

If you want to talk class identity go find a thread about dizzying and executioner in PVP ...

Chilly-McFreeze

kingsforged wrote: »

[

Sorcerer ISN'T the only ranged class AND stamina sorcerers can use streak just as readily since it scales, yet it's the only one that has this movement ability. [...]

kingsforged wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

kingsforged wrote: »

This isn't a "how to kill sorcs" thread.

Actually it is considering how Streak is one of the last things they have access to other classes do not. Streak has already been changed and balanced multiple times over the years as the combat had evolved.

Really? Because I don't see any other class capable of running around with up to 4 summoned pets, yet not every sorc runs pets... but they ALL run streak in PVP.

If you want to talk class identity go find a thread about dizzying and executioner in PVP ...

And the issue with every sorc running their trademark skill is? Do you want them to not use it because it's not worth it?

Do you even have a sorc of any kind for pvp? If you'd have one, you would know about the downsides of it. Overshooting and unnecessary cc immunity are just the tip of it. It's bugged (even outside of rubberbanding) and sometimes moves you 0 feet forward. If there's even a small slope at the end of the streak you spend the next second falling straight down, being an easy target. Everyone with a gapcloser or ranged skill still hits you in the arse.

And trust me, the usual stam sorc doesn't spam it. It costs 3.6k mag on an average sS. Means streak twice will strip you of 8.3k the resource that's used for Dark Deal, Surge etc. as well.

Not every class has to be the same. Sorcs theme are mobility and pets. There is no cleanse, no cloak/ shade, no strong percentage mitigation like on other classes. That's the way it's designed to be, get used to it. If you can't accept class identity is a thing this genre might not be for you.

Cronopoly

I'd hold all Nerf anyone threads until this PVP combat rebalance testing and implementation is done. Right now, Streak, like many other abilities are within the 3 second cooldown review. Currently it's damn near useless as are most AOE abilities.
My one shield in PVP got burned through in one second and I died like burnt paper. 😑

Riught now PVP is highly frustrating, and with frequent nerfs to gear, wasting my money in game and all these moving parts etc, I'm sitting out on PVP until there's some damn stability. They can install bots to test this crap. Hire some of the ones running around in PVE unmolested for years. 🙄

Attackopsn

Yes let zerglings balance the game in their image

Cinbri

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Not every class has to be the same. Sorcs theme are mobility and pets. There is no cleanse, no cloak/ shade, no strong percentage mitigation like on other classes. That's the way it's designed to be, get used to it. If you can't accept class identity is a thing this genre might not be for you.

Sorry but you saying about sorc from years ago. Nowdays sorc can be as tanky as other classes after zos turned matriarch into strongest burst heal in game (stronger than even templar/necro burst heal) in addition to their main defesne of damage shield and uhm... best for shieldstacking that was still never addressed, added tanking passives and boosted other healing skills. So now sorc has both tanking and mobility.

Chilly-McFreeze

Cinbri wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Not every class has to be the same. Sorcs theme are mobility and pets. There is no cleanse, no cloak/ shade, no strong percentage mitigation like on other classes. That's the way it's designed to be, get used to it. If you can't accept class identity is a thing this genre might not be for you.

Sorry but you saying about sorc from years ago. Nowdays sorc can be as tanky as other classes after zos turned matriarch into strongest burst heal in game (stronger than even templar/necro burst heal) in addition to their main defesne of damage shield and uhm... best for shieldstacking that was still never addressed, added tanking passives and boosted other healing skills. So now sorc has both tanking and mobility.

Compared to what the two new classes can face tank? Look, I don't deny that sorcs can take a beating by layering wards, heals and mobility. Why shouldn't they? I was just pointing out that different classes work in different ways. E.g. a necro doesn't really need gap openers with all the percentage mitigation and healing power they have baked into their kit. Just like sorcs don't need a class cleanse because of what you wrote. Every class can take hits or at least prevents being stomped, but how they archieve that is different. And it would be a shame if every class becomes the same.

Cinbri

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Not every class has to be the same. Sorcs theme are mobility and pets. There is no cleanse, no cloak/ shade, no strong percentage mitigation like on other classes. That's the way it's designed to be, get used to it. If you can't accept class identity is a thing this genre might not be for you.

Sorry but you saying about sorc from years ago. Nowdays sorc can be as tanky as other classes after zos turned matriarch into strongest burst heal in game (stronger than even templar/necro burst heal) in addition to their main defesne of damage shield and uhm... best for shieldstacking that was still never addressed, added tanking passives and boosted other healing skills. So now sorc has both tanking and mobility.

Compared to what the two new classes can face tank? Look, I don't deny that sorcs can take a beating by layering wards, heals and mobility. Why shouldn't they? I was just pointing out that different classes work in different ways. E.g. a necro doesn't really need gap openers with all the percentage mitigation and healing power they have baked into their kit. Just like sorcs don't need a class cleanse because of what you wrote. Every class can take hits or at least prevents being stomped, but how they archieve that is different. And it would be a shame if every class becomes the same.

Well, OP doesnt ask to remove skill itself but just tone it down. I disagree on solution coz making it targetable is against theme of skill and homogenization at its best but skill is indeed overloaded after zos literally made it as biggest aoe fear in game in addition to its original function, and definetly need some treatment.

Jaimeh

kingsforged wrote: »

Jaimeh wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Streak is a get away skill, not a gap closer and should not be balanced with them. Yes, it can be used as a gap closer, but its less effective since you will often streak past the target and then you still have to turn around to attack. Making everything the same just makes the game boring. Stop with the nerfs.

Agreed, stop taking away everything unique to sorcs. It has other utility as well, so adding a target would be a terrible idea.

"other utility" is exactly my point...

It's miles stronger than other classes/skill trees gap closers or movement abilities, yet gets all of their functions. It's not balanced. It either needs to be brought in line, or other skills adjusted to have some similar functionality.

It's not a gap closer, and even if it were, do you know how many skills have unique functionality? Why should classes be homogenized just because you don't like to deal with streaky sorcs in pvp? Learn to counter it, instead of wanting to ruin it for everyone.

kingsforged

Cinbri wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Not every class has to be the same. Sorcs theme are mobility and pets. There is no cleanse, no cloak/ shade, no strong percentage mitigation like on other classes. That's the way it's designed to be, get used to it. If you can't accept class identity is a thing this genre might not be for you.

Sorry but you saying about sorc from years ago. Nowdays sorc can be as tanky as other classes after zos turned matriarch into strongest burst heal in game (stronger than even templar/necro burst heal) in addition to their main defesne of damage shield and uhm... best for shieldstacking that was still never addressed, added tanking passives and boosted other healing skills. So now sorc has both tanking and mobility.

Compared to what the two new classes can face tank? Look, I don't deny that sorcs can take a beating by layering wards, heals and mobility. Why shouldn't they? I was just pointing out that different classes work in different ways. E.g. a necro doesn't really need gap openers with all the percentage mitigation and healing power they have baked into their kit. Just like sorcs don't need a class cleanse because of what you wrote. Every class can take hits or at least prevents being stomped, but how they archieve that is different. And it would be a shame if every class becomes the same.

Well, OP doesnt ask to remove skill itself but just tone it down. I disagree on solution coz making it targetable is against theme of skill and homogenization at its best but skill is indeed overloaded after zos literally made it as biggest aoe fear in game in addition to its original function, and definetly need some treatment.

Here's a different idea then - take away the stun. It's already more stacked/versatile than any other gap closer/movement skill, it doesn't need CC on top. Sorcerer already has other stun and immobilize skills.

kingsforged

Jaimeh wrote: »

kingsforged wrote: »

Jaimeh wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Streak is a get away skill, not a gap closer and should not be balanced with them. Yes, it can be used as a gap closer, but its less effective since you will often streak past the target and then you still have to turn around to attack. Making everything the same just makes the game boring. Stop with the nerfs.

Agreed, stop taking away everything unique to sorcs. It has other utility as well, so adding a target would be a terrible idea.

"other utility" is exactly my point...

It's miles stronger than other classes/skill trees gap closers or movement abilities, yet gets all of their functions. It's not balanced. It either needs to be brought in line, or other skills adjusted to have some similar functionality.

It's not a gap closer, and even if it were, do you know how many skills have unique functionality? Why should classes be homogenized just because you don't like to deal with streaky sorcs in pvp? Learn to counter it, instead of wanting to ruin it for everyone.

It's called "balancing" you may have heard of it. You're claiming it's unique whilst also claiming it's not unique.

Class identity isn't an argument to skill balancing, never has been, never will.

jaws343

kingsforged wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Not every class has to be the same. Sorcs theme are mobility and pets. There is no cleanse, no cloak/ shade, no strong percentage mitigation like on other classes. That's the way it's designed to be, get used to it. If you can't accept class identity is a thing this genre might not be for you.

Sorry but you saying about sorc from years ago. Nowdays sorc can be as tanky as other classes after zos turned matriarch into strongest burst heal in game (stronger than even templar/necro burst heal) in addition to their main defesne of damage shield and uhm... best for shieldstacking that was still never addressed, added tanking passives and boosted other healing skills. So now sorc has both tanking and mobility.

Compared to what the two new classes can face tank? Look, I don't deny that sorcs can take a beating by layering wards, heals and mobility. Why shouldn't they? I was just pointing out that different classes work in different ways. E.g. a necro doesn't really need gap openers with all the percentage mitigation and healing power they have baked into their kit. Just like sorcs don't need a class cleanse because of what you wrote. Every class can take hits or at least prevents being stomped, but how they archieve that is different. And it would be a shame if every class becomes the same.

Well, OP doesnt ask to remove skill itself but just tone it down. I disagree on solution coz making it targetable is against theme of skill and homogenization at its best but skill is indeed overloaded after zos literally made it as biggest aoe fear in game in addition to its original function, and definetly need some treatment.

Here's a different idea then - take away the stun. It's already more stacked/versatile than any other gap closer/movement skill, it doesn't need CC on top. Sorcerer already has other stun and immobilize skills.

Every class has an unblockable, undodgeable stun. Why should sorc be any different?

And as a gap closer, Streak is pretty awful. Most of the time, you end up on the other side of your opponent and can't immediately follow up your stun with an attack. No other gap closer has this problem. They all drop you directly on top of your enemy, all of the time.

And, not all Sorcs run streak. Bar space is rough on a sorc and if built right, you can do far better without it. I run a build with and without streak and the build without streak is much stronger because it isn't relying on making up for the massive cost of maintaining streak.

Bergzorn

kingsforged wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Not every class has to be the same. Sorcs theme are mobility and pets. There is no cleanse, no cloak/ shade, no strong percentage mitigation like on other classes. That's the way it's designed to be, get used to it. If you can't accept class identity is a thing this genre might not be for you.

Sorry but you saying about sorc from years ago. Nowdays sorc can be as tanky as other classes after zos turned matriarch into strongest burst heal in game (stronger than even templar/necro burst heal) in addition to their main defesne of damage shield and uhm... best for shieldstacking that was still never addressed, added tanking passives and boosted other healing skills. So now sorc has both tanking and mobility.

Compared to what the two new classes can face tank? Look, I don't deny that sorcs can take a beating by layering wards, heals and mobility. Why shouldn't they? I was just pointing out that different classes work in different ways. E.g. a necro doesn't really need gap openers with all the percentage mitigation and healing power they have baked into their kit. Just like sorcs don't need a class cleanse because of what you wrote. Every class can take hits or at least prevents being stomped, but how they archieve that is different. And it would be a shame if every class becomes the same.

Well, OP doesnt ask to remove skill itself but just tone it down. I disagree on solution coz making it targetable is against theme of skill and homogenization at its best but skill is indeed overloaded after zos literally made it as biggest aoe fear in game in addition to its original function, and definetly need some treatment.

Here's a different idea then - take away the stun. It's already more stacked/versatile than any other gap closer/movement skill, it doesn't need CC on top. Sorcerer already has other stun and immobilize skills.

Without the stun, nobody in their right mind would take Streak over Ball of Lightning anymore.

If I want to get places on my magsorc, I don't use Streak, I use sprint (with 2 x Swift, Major Expedition, and Dark Deal for stamina regeneration).

Streak is one of the strongest skills in the sorc arsenal, but it doesn't need much of a nerf to bring it from hero to zero. Even if the stun only becomes blockable again, which is a reasonable request IMO, it's reeealy hard to chose Streak over BoL.

Pelican

lmao what's next, a target requirement for ward?

actosh

Nerf streak and then take on fossilize :}

Rianai

Pelican wrote: »

lmao what's next, a target requirement for ward?

Some future patch notes:

This update includes several performance improvements, optimizations, and stability enhancements, in addition to a large audit for all skills to reduce their implications on performance. This includes the addition of cooldowns as well as some adjustments to the way certain skills are handled by the server.
[...]
Sorcerer

• Daedric Summoning:
  • Conjured Ward: This skill and its morphs can only be cast while a pet is active. The change was done to remove the redundancy of the aoe checks that are performed on cast even when there are no pets present. Now those calcuations will only be performed when neccessary.

Joy_Division

This is how nerf happy these forums are now. A skill that has worked functionally the same for over six years and is pretty much the last vestige of what what once the classic ESO sorcerer, a skill called "Bolt Escape" now needs to have a target requirement?!?

Astrid

Nerf streak! Nerf shade! Nerf cloak! Nerf Temporal Guard! Nerf all your escape skills into the floor and eat that damage like a man! 😡

Oh and nerf sorc just bc.

Bergzorn

Rianai wrote: »

Some future patch notes: [...]

Nearly lost my cool...

Vevvev

Joy_Division wrote: »

This is how nerf happy these forums are now. A skill that has worked functionally the same for over six years and is pretty much the last vestige of what what once the classic ESO sorcerer, a skill called "Bolt Escape" now needs to have a target requirement?!?

I know right? It was complaining like this that got Vampiric Drain nerfed so badly into the ground it became a joke of a skill nobody in their right mind would take. Probably even had an influence on why Mesmerize is so terrible...

Somewhere

I mean the fact that it's also am unblockable, undosgable, aoe, gap closing stun does sound pretty overloaded if you ask me.

Should it require a target? No, that would kill the skill. That said, I would argue that there is little reason this stun should be unblockable when it already offers so much. The fact that streak and rune prison exist on the same class is hilarious since streak very nearly negates the need for any other stun.

ZOS is always going on about needing to make choices in your builds but then let overloaded skills like this exist in tandem with the rest of the garbage.

Lord-Otto

Streak also has a unique stacking cost, so the rules for other skills don't apply. The stun can't true combo on console and is often difficult to use on terrain or in buildings. It must be unblockable because if you could block it, a sorc would never get a kill against halfway competent stamina builds. They would just block the second Curse goes off and ruin the combo. Sorcs don't have pressure skills to win without their burst, so they must have a guaranteed stun. Other classes have it, as well.
Rune Cage used to be good and got overbuffed, then completely destroyed. I'd call out ZOS for poor balancing, but the fact of the matter is they wanted to delete the skill. They eliminated all long-range stuns, so Rune Cage had to go. And as it is now, it is completely useless. That's why Streak and Rune Cage exist on the same class, because Rune Cage DOESN'T exist.

gepe87

Some people really need to roll a Magsorc for a while...and at least for 6 months...

Oreyn_Bearclaw

You going to increase its range to other gap closers? Of course not. It's a terrible idea. 0/10

xAcrania

The crying never ends of abilities that aren't broken

Somewhere

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Streak also has a unique stacking cost, so the rules for other skills don't apply. The stun can't true combo on console and is often difficult to use on terrain or in buildings. It must be unblockable because if you could block it, a sorc would never get a kill against halfway competent stamina builds. They would just block the second Curse goes off and ruin the combo. Sorcs don't have pressure skills to win without their burst, so they must have a guaranteed stun. Other classes have it, as well.
Rune Cage used to be good and got overbuffed, then completely destroyed. I'd call out ZOS for poor balancing, but the fact of the matter is they wanted to delete the skill. They eliminated all long-range stuns, so Rune Cage had to go. And as it is now, it is completely useless. That's why Streak and Rune Cage exist on the same class, because Rune Cage DOESN'T exist.

That's the crux of the issue here: ZOS sucks at balancing. Streak remains the way it is because rune cage sucks. That doesn't change that streak is overloaded as a skill, and that doesn't change the fact that we need a balance pass on a lot of skills, rune cage and streak included.

Lord-Otto

Somewhere wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Streak also has a unique stacking cost, so the rules for other skills don't apply. The stun can't true combo on console and is often difficult to use on terrain or in buildings. It must be unblockable because if you could block it, a sorc would never get a kill against halfway competent stamina builds. They would just block the second Curse goes off and ruin the combo. Sorcs don't have pressure skills to win without their burst, so they must have a guaranteed stun. Other classes have it, as well.
Rune Cage used to be good and got overbuffed, then completely destroyed. I'd call out ZOS for poor balancing, but the fact of the matter is they wanted to delete the skill. They eliminated all long-range stuns, so Rune Cage had to go. And as it is now, it is completely useless. That's why Streak and Rune Cage exist on the same class, because Rune Cage DOESN'T exist.

That's the crux of the issue here: ZOS sucks at balancing. Streak remains the way it is because rune cage sucks. That doesn't change that streak is overloaded as a skill, and that doesn't change the fact that we need a balance pass on a lot of skills, rune cage and streak included.

Ugh. Making Streak unblockable was actually Irylia's and my idea. The reasoning behind overloading it was that sorcs already have exorbitant barspace costs.
Pets need double barring, max mag buff (Aegis) needs slotting instead of being a passive, in PvP you need three shields while rolldodge and block don't require a slot, there's no uitility in our skills so buffs and debuffs must be slotted, ...
Making Streak also the unavoidable preferred CC saves the slot from Rune Cage and such. Mind you, sorc was originally designed with three bars in mind. I can accept Streak losing utility IF! pets lose the need to be double-barred or Rune Cage becomes an unavoidable CC (maybe with shorter range).