Add targeting requirement to Sorcerer Streak.

kingsforged

Or remove it from other gap closers.

The lack of a targeting requirement is what makes this ability insanely overpowered. It's a spammable teleport that allows you to either gap close OR escape, with next to no possibility of being caught (especially now with all gap closers being completely broken AND streak causing rubberband visuals that completely break all targeting on the sorc). This ability has been a balancing issue for a VERY long time, yet the answer is so obvious.

Either take away the ability to use this as a movement skill with NO equal by adding a targeting requirement, or give the same movement ability to other gap closers.

idk

Zos balanced this skill very well when they added the increasing cost with each use when used within four seconds of the last use. It is very well balanced and I fail to an issue being brought up.

However, we can easily say this is a nerf sorc thread.

kingsforged

idk wrote: »

Zos balanced this skill very well when they added the increasing cost with each use when used within four seconds of the last use. It is very well balanced and I fail to an issue being brought up.

However, we can easily say this is a nerf sorc thread.

The increasing cost is irrelevant to a skill that can clear half a battleground map in 2-3 uses, completing removing any danger to the Sorcerer and allowing them time to recover the spent magicka.

And IF this skill is so balanced, why shouldn't the increasing cost be removed and the non-targeting use of other gap closers be added?

This isn't a nerf sorcerer thread, this is a balance gap closers thread. There's no reason for this skill to have the same abilities as other gap closers, yet not suffer from their biggest weakness. With the terrible game performance in PVP activites targeting 'lock on' is mediocre at best, causing all other gap closers to suffer, except this one.

Sergykid

excellent idea. I hope it will be added, it's a very good solution. Remove the increased cost if needed, but a target requirement is exactly what this ability needs to be balanced to the other gap closers.

on the other hand, if this spell in its current state allows the user to cancel the fight at any willing time, what makes it different from the Shade teleport from Nb? i would say Cloak but that can have a counter, while Shade tp has no counter

Sanctum74

Streak is a get away skill, not a gap closer and should not be balanced with them. Yes, it can be used as a gap closer, but its less effective since you will often streak past the target and then you still have to turn around to attack. Making everything the same just makes the game boring. Stop with the nerfs.

Chilly-McFreeze

[snip]

kingsforged wrote: »

And IF this skill is so balanced, why shouldn't the increasing cost be removed and the non-targeting use of other gap closers be added?

Because it wouldn't be balanced then anymore? Why not lift the ultimate restriction of Take Flight but, I don't know, let you jump away from the enemy? Makes just as much sense as your suggestion.

[Edited for Baiting]

jaws343

Stop chasing people. If you are needing to chase someone down they are either baiting you into a fight in a better location, which the player doing the chasing will complain about how OP they are, or they are running from a fight they cannot win, which, as can be seen here, the player doing the chasing is complaining about.

Not every fight has to end in a victory. Sometimes stalemates are ok.

Sergykid

[Quoted post removed]

so being a ranged class (specifically sorc or nb) you are automatically granted with a spell that lets you be the one who controls who wins the fight, and close it if you are not the one.

Note that this Streak has a counter tho, while Shade does not. Talk about fair fight, sure

kingsforged

jaws343 wrote: »

Stop chasing people. If you are needing to chase someone down they are either baiting you into a fight in a better location, which the player doing the chasing will complain about how OP they are, or they are running from a fight they cannot win, which, as can be seen here, the player doing the chasing is complaining about.

Not every fight has to end in a victory. Sometimes stalemates are ok.

You've clearly never fought a good sorc. Streak allows sorcs to get out of a fight with no challenge, reset their resources via potions, monster sets, recovery and abilities like Dark Deal, then instantly re-engage in a way that no other class can do. They can instantly remove any and all pressure from themselves (especially right now with how broken gap closers are).

Streak allows sorcerers to instantly create distance in any direction, even NB shade doesn't come close to that.

kingsforged

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

[snip]

kingsforged wrote: »

And IF this skill is so balanced, why shouldn't the increasing cost be removed and the non-targeting use of other gap closers be added?

Because it wouldn't be balanced then anymore? Why not lift the ultimate restriction of Take Flight but, I don't know, let you jump away from the enemy? Makes just as much sense as your suggestion.

[Edited for Baiting]

So where is the get-away tool for other ranged mag builds? Why does only 1 class get that ability but other ranged mag builds just have to put up with melee gap closers? Sorcerer has access to both another class stun and an immobilize, why is that deemed enough for other mag but NOT sorc?

Removing an ultimate cost makes no sense [snip]

[Edited for Baiting]

kingsforged

Sergykid wrote: »

excellent idea. I hope it will be added, it's a very good solution. Remove the increased cost if needed, but a target requirement is exactly what this ability needs to be balanced to the other gap closers.

on the other hand, if this spell in its current state allows the user to cancel the fight at any willing time, what makes it different from the Shade teleport from Nb? i would say Cloak but that can have a counter, while Shade tp has no counter

I partially agree on the shade, however it DOES have weaknesses in that it has a limited range and time, and with multiple players it can be camped. Streak is a "get out of trouble free" card, even if the sorc burns their entire magicka pool using it, you'll still never be able to catch them. Shade requires at least a little thought into its placement and use.

kingsforged

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Streak is a get away skill, not a gap closer and should not be balanced with them. Yes, it can be used as a gap closer, but its less effective since you will often streak past the target and then you still have to turn around to attack. Making everything the same just makes the game boring. Stop with the nerfs.

Everything remotely balanced in this game is basically already the same. If streak is a bad gap closer, then you shouldn't have a problem with other gap closers becoming similar. If it misses a lot, then surely that's a good thing for other gap closers to be similar? It creates an actual player skill gap by having the targeting and useage rely on player ability and not unreliable targeting systems.

Sanctum74

kingsforged wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

[snip]

kingsforged wrote: »

And IF this skill is so balanced, why shouldn't the increasing cost be removed and the non-targeting use of other gap closers be added?

Because it wouldn't be balanced then anymore? Why not lift the ultimate restriction of Take Flight but, I don't know, let you jump away from the enemy? Makes just as much sense as your suggestion.

[Edited for Baiting]

So where is the get-away tool for other ranged mag builds? Why does only 1 class get that ability but other ranged mag builds just have to put up with melee gap closers? Sorcerer has access to both another class stun and an immobilize, why is that deemed enough for other mag but NOT sorc?

Nb has shade/cloak and all the other mag classes are tanky stand your ground brawlers. Variety is a good thing.

Edit: Oops i was responding to your other message when you responded to mine. In regards to making other gap closers like streak it would just ruin them. Streak enables some distance so you can get a full ranged combo off. A gap closer does the same, but for melee skills. If it worked like streak then it would be useless since you would not be facing your target. Again can’t emphasize this enough, variety is a good thing.

Dojohoda

Sorcs could not escape and/or maintain distance if they did that and that would be really bad for sorcs.

In the old days, sorcs used streak to lead enemies into an ambush. Thinking about that makes me laugh. It worked every time until we learned our lesson.

Psiion

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idk

kingsforged wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

[snip]

kingsforged wrote: »

And IF this skill is so balanced, why shouldn't the increasing cost be removed and the non-targeting use of other gap closers be added?

Because it wouldn't be balanced then anymore? Why not lift the ultimate restriction of Take Flight but, I don't know, let you jump away from the enemy? Makes just as much sense as your suggestion.

[Edited for Baiting]

So where is the get-away tool for other ranged mag builds? Why does only 1 class get that ability but other ranged mag builds just have to put up with melee gap closers? Sorcerer has access to both another class stun and an immobilize, why is that deemed enough for other mag but NOT sorc?

Removing an ultimate cost makes no sense [snip]

[Edited for Baiting]

Zos designed each class to be different. Over the years I have killed blinking sorcs so it can be done.

BTW, NBs have cloak, Wardens have a heal they can use to pull themselves to a friendly. I cannot think of what Nexcros have for this. Templars are melee, but can be ranged, DKs are melee.

NightSky

Correcting if i am wrong, but isn't streak/Ball of Lightning an escape skill? On top of that it has a increase each times it's used willing a certain time.

Sephyr

idk wrote: »

kingsforged wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

[snip]

kingsforged wrote: »

And IF this skill is so balanced, why shouldn't the increasing cost be removed and the non-targeting use of other gap closers be added?

Because it wouldn't be balanced then anymore? Why not lift the ultimate restriction of Take Flight but, I don't know, let you jump away from the enemy? Makes just as much sense as your suggestion.

[Edited for Baiting]

So where is the get-away tool for other ranged mag builds? Why does only 1 class get that ability but other ranged mag builds just have to put up with melee gap closers? Sorcerer has access to both another class stun and an immobilize, why is that deemed enough for other mag but NOT sorc?

Removing an ultimate cost makes no sense [snip]

[Edited for Baiting]

Zos designed each class to be different. Over the years I have killed blinking sorcs so it can be done.

BTW, NBs have cloak, Wardens have a heal they can use to pull themselves to a friendly. I cannot think of what Nexcros have for this. Templars are melee, but can be ranged, DKs are melee.

Necros don't have one, but we do have Beckoning Armor that pulls people to us that are doing ranged attacks. Other than that though, there's nothing in the class toolkit in regards to mobility that I'm aware of.

universal_wrath

NightSky wrote: »

Correcting if i am wrong, but isn't streak/Ball of Lightning an escape skill? On top of that it has a increase each times it's used willing a certain time.

To correct that, ball of lightning is an escape skill, streak seems to be an offesinve skill. I personaly like how the ball of lightning work. Streak how every needs a targeting mechanic to it. If you use the skill like a gap closer and hit/stun a target, you do not get a cost increase, but if you don't hit/stun a target, you get a 60% penalty instead of 33%. Thus would surely make both skills unique and make people have to think twice about which morhp to take. Currently, streak works much like ball of lightning abd more will little downsides. Also, I use streak to stun so I really hate the fact that I go past the target everytume I try to stun them and ruin my combo. Another puls thung is that you would get the squishy magsorcs to melee combat if they streak targets or let them use rune to be in range.

Bergzorn

universal_wrath wrote: »

Currently, streak works much like ball of lightning abd more will little downsides.

For escaping, Streak is not even in the same ball park (lol) as Ball of Lightning. At least for projectile based builds.

universal_wrath

Bergzorn wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

Currently, streak works much like ball of lightning abd more will little downsides.

For escaping, Streak is not even in the same ball park (lol) as Ball of Lightning. At least for projectile based builds.

You are right, ball of lightning overs projecrile absorbtion, but you can have about the same effect with streak if you dodge roll into streak. Also, streaking back to enemies is another plus for streak, most people do not anticipated sorcs to streak through them to run away, it only works with streak because it stuns. As I said, ball of lightning is pure defensive skill. While streak is like jack of all trades and beats BoL everytime unless you fight pure range builds like bow, magblade, and magsorcs.

Xvorg

kingsforged wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Stop chasing people. If you are needing to chase someone down they are either baiting you into a fight in a better location, which the player doing the chasing will complain about how OP they are, or they are running from a fight they cannot win, which, as can be seen here, the player doing the chasing is complaining about.

Not every fight has to end in a victory. Sometimes stalemates are ok.

You've clearly never fought a good sorc. Streak allows sorcs to get out of a fight with no challenge, reset their resources via potions, monster sets, recovery and abilities like Dark Deal, then instantly re-engage in a way that no other class can do. They can instantly remove any and all pressure from themselves (especially right now with how broken gap closers are).

Streak allows sorcerers to instantly create distance in any direction, even NB shade doesn't come close to that.

You can CC a streaking sorc, you can use inmo pots, a gap closer, a pull (chains or silver leash).

I don´t see what's the problem with the skill. It is is meant to work on a ranged spec as a escaping tool.

And if a sorc controls a BG using it, it is not a sorc fault, but the other team's fault that stack instead of spread. Sorcs just uses the tools they have

JobooAGS

I’m not a sorc main, hell I don’t even have a mag sorc, but leave streak alone (at least with the teleport function and targeting).

kingsforged

[/quote] Zos designed each class to be different. Over the years I have killed blinking sorcs so it can be done.

BTW, NBs have cloak, Wardens have a heal they can use to pull themselves to a friendly. I cannot think of what Nexcros have for this. Templars are melee, but can be ranged, DKs are melee.[/quote]

Cloak gets broken by just about anything and everything these days, including a bunch of their own proc sets, it's still good, but it's often unreliable (not to mention burning resources on sneak). Warden heal still requires a friendly target.

My point is that streak gets all the bonuses of a gap closer, none of the negatives (other than overshooting) AND can be used as an insanely easy escape tool. Sorcerers can get in and out in a way that no other class can even remotely compete with using a single skill, and with a toolkit that easily allows them to regain whatever resources they used in doing it.

Other classes and skill trees may have the ability to get IN, but they can't get back OUT again if they mess up or get into trouble (aside from NB shade which I talked about above). Sorcerer essentially receives zero punishment (outside of being instantly melted) for overcommitting or making a bad play.

Got a kill and need to reset? - Streak.
Overcommit into a group? - Streak.
Get ambushed? - Streak.
Losing the fight? - Streak.
Winning a fight but others join? - Streak.
Need to reach a capture point before anyone else? - Streak.
Team died and need to regroup? - Streak.

I personally would prefer to see these abilities redesigned like other games have them, with an AoE style template that shows the direction and final ending place of the ability. It requires more skill to play, and opens up far more versatile options in terms of movement.

kingsforged

Xvorg wrote: »

kingsforged wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Stop chasing people. If you are needing to chase someone down they are either baiting you into a fight in a better location, which the player doing the chasing will complain about how OP they are, or they are running from a fight they cannot win, which, as can be seen here, the player doing the chasing is complaining about.

Not every fight has to end in a victory. Sometimes stalemates are ok.

You've clearly never fought a good sorc. Streak allows sorcs to get out of a fight with no challenge, reset their resources via potions, monster sets, recovery and abilities like Dark Deal, then instantly re-engage in a way that no other class can do. They can instantly remove any and all pressure from themselves (especially right now with how broken gap closers are).

Streak allows sorcerers to instantly create distance in any direction, even NB shade doesn't come close to that.

You can CC a streaking sorc, you can use inmo pots, a gap closer, a pull (chains or silver leash).

I don´t see what's the problem with the skill. It is is meant to work on a ranged spec as a escaping tool.

And if a sorc controls a BG using it, it is not a sorc fault, but the other team's fault that stack instead of spread. Sorcs just uses the tools they have

Because it has ALL the functions of other gap closers, without the limitation of needing a target. This allows it to be a dual-purpose movement skill in a way that no other class has even remote access to.

Not all pvp builds use a gap closer, EVERY sorcerer uses streak. There's a reason.

Jaimeh

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Streak is a get away skill, not a gap closer and should not be balanced with them. Yes, it can be used as a gap closer, but its less effective since you will often streak past the target and then you still have to turn around to attack. Making everything the same just makes the game boring. Stop with the nerfs.

Agreed, stop taking away everything unique to sorcs. It has other utility as well, so adding a target would be a terrible idea.

kingsforged

Jaimeh wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Streak is a get away skill, not a gap closer and should not be balanced with them. Yes, it can be used as a gap closer, but its less effective since you will often streak past the target and then you still have to turn around to attack. Making everything the same just makes the game boring. Stop with the nerfs.

Agreed, stop taking away everything unique to sorcs. It has other utility as well, so adding a target would be a terrible idea.

"other utility" is exactly my point...

It's miles stronger than other classes/skill trees gap closers or movement abilities, yet gets all of their functions. It's not balanced. It either needs to be brought in line, or other skills adjusted to have some similar functionality.

Vevvev

Streak is not as good as you make it out to be. It's pretty bad at sustained distance over time and the stun can be blocked. It's more of a burst speed skill and reminds me of the Aeldari in Battle fleet Gothic Armada. They are super fast in bursts, but the moment their foes charge at them with more efficient speed boosts they'll be unable to get away.

That's how I take Sorcerers on when they use streak. I use abilities like Race Against Time to go after them, and have some way of doing ranged damage to not give them a break. (If possible you can use a pull on them or a gap closer of your own.) Restoration staff's attacks, lightning staff's heavy attacks, and the Destruction Staff spammable don't count as projectiles and won't get absorbed by the one morph of Streak. There are plenty of counters to streak in this game, you just have to utilize them.

kingsforged

Vevvev wrote: »

Streak is not as good as you make it out to be. It's pretty bad at sustained distance over time and the stun can be blocked. It's more of a burst speed skill and reminds me of the Aeldari in Battle fleet Gothic Armada. They are super fast in bursts, but the moment their foes charge at them with more efficient speed boosts they'll be unable to get away.

That's how I take Sorcerers on when they use streak. Block when I can, use abilities like Race Against Time to go after them, and have some way of doing ranged damage to not give them a break. (If possible you can use a pull on them or a gap closer of your own.) Restoration staff's attacks, lightning staff's heavy attacks, and the Destruction Staff spammable don't count as projectiles and won't get absorbed by the one morph of Streak. There are plenty of counters to streak in this game, you just have to utilize them.

1)The stun cc CAN'T be blocked, it's literally in the tooltip.
2) Compared to the other similar abilities in the game, it's far more powerful.
3) Any good sorcerer will use either 2 streaks or a streak into a dodge roll, breaking targeting and moving outside of range/breaking line of sight (assuming their intention is to escape and not to simply cc and create distance for an attack).

Your example here is purely against a weakened sorcerer attempting to escape, which is only a part of what I'm talking about. This ability doesn't stack up when compared to other similar abilities in terms of it's usefulness and ease of use.

Again, if this ability ISN'T so powerful, it shouldn't be an issue for other classes to get access to similar skills.

Xvorg

kingsforged wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

kingsforged wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Stop chasing people. If you are needing to chase someone down they are either baiting you into a fight in a better location, which the player doing the chasing will complain about how OP they are, or they are running from a fight they cannot win, which, as can be seen here, the player doing the chasing is complaining about.

Not every fight has to end in a victory. Sometimes stalemates are ok.

You've clearly never fought a good sorc. Streak allows sorcs to get out of a fight with no challenge, reset their resources via potions, monster sets, recovery and abilities like Dark Deal, then instantly re-engage in a way that no other class can do. They can instantly remove any and all pressure from themselves (especially right now with how broken gap closers are).

Streak allows sorcerers to instantly create distance in any direction, even NB shade doesn't come close to that.

You can CC a streaking sorc, you can use inmo pots, a gap closer, a pull (chains or silver leash).

I don´t see what's the problem with the skill. It is is meant to work on a ranged spec as a escaping tool.

And if a sorc controls a BG using it, it is not a sorc fault, but the other team's fault that stack instead of spread. Sorcs just uses the tools they have

Because it has ALL the functions of other gap closers, without the limitation of needing a target. This allows it to be a dual-purpose movement skill in a way that no other class has even remote access to.

Not all pvp builds use a gap closer, EVERY sorcerer uses streak. There's a reason.

And also has all the disadvantages of a gap opener when you want to use it as a gap closer. A miscalculation will put you in a position were a melee enemy can wreck you. Another miscalculation will send your sorc the other way rather the enemy you want to CC. Not to mention that the stun could imply free CC immunity if used the wrong way, making a melee enemy even harder to beat

Streak is a OK skill, it has advantages and disadvantages. Your solution gives sorc a gap closer to a class that doesn't need it.

Xvorg

kingsforged wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Streak is not as good as you make it out to be. It's pretty bad at sustained distance over time and the stun can be blocked. It's more of a burst speed skill and reminds me of the Aeldari in Battle fleet Gothic Armada. They are super fast in bursts, but the moment their foes charge at them with more efficient speed boosts they'll be unable to get away.

That's how I take Sorcerers on when they use streak. Block when I can, use abilities like Race Against Time to go after them, and have some way of doing ranged damage to not give them a break. (If possible you can use a pull on them or a gap closer of your own.) Restoration staff's attacks, lightning staff's heavy attacks, and the Destruction Staff spammable don't count as projectiles and won't get absorbed by the one morph of Streak. There are plenty of counters to streak in this game, you just have to utilize them.

1)The stun cc CAN'T be blocked, it's literally in the tooltip.
2) Compared to the other similar abilities in the game, it's far more powerful.
3) Any good sorcerer will use either 2 streaks or a streak into a dodge roll, breaking targeting and moving outside of range/breaking line of sight (assuming their intention is to escape and not to simply cc and create distance for an attack).

Your example here is purely against a weakened sorcerer attempting to escape, which is only a part of what I'm talking about. This ability doesn't stack up when compared to other similar abilities in terms of it's usefulness and ease of use.

Again, if this ability ISN'T so powerful, it shouldn't be an issue for other classes to get access to similar skills.

Any good nightblade uses cloak after a dodgeroll, so let's nerf cloak por doing exactly what it has to do, breaking targeting.

Any good sorc breaks targeting with streak + dodgeroll, so let's nerf streak for doing exactly what it's meant to do, allowing the ranged class to escape danger.

Your mindset is the very same some guys used to ask for nerf on DKs wings, and after it was done, then they were complaining because there was too much ranged CC. So ranged CC was nerfed the next patch and a lot of builds were destroyed. If you nerf streak bear in mind that the consequences will impact us all because sorcs cannot live without a gap opener. That will mean that all the skill that increase speed and even gap closers will get a compensation nerf so sorcs can be viable.

People here do not complain about streak, maybe because they learnt how to deal with the skill instead of asking for nerfs. If you want to improve, well, just follow the advice of Britney: You got to work...