This is what Crown Crates look like

firefrosti

Here's what my crown crates looked like ,

Purchased: Sep 3 @ 2:39pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 21000 Crown Pack - $160.49
Subtotal $149.99
Tax $10.50
Total $160.49

Purchased: Aug 24 @ 3:24pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 5500 Crown Pack - $42.79
Subtotal $39.99
Tax $2.80
Total $42.79

Purchased: Aug 5 @ 8:08am
The Elder Scrolls Online - 5500 Crown Pack - $29.95
Subtotal $39.99
Discount -$12.00 (-30%)
Tax $1.96
Total $29.95

Purchased: Aug 5 @ 8:04am
The Elder Scrolls Online - 21000 Crown Pack - $96.29
Subtotal $149.99
Discount -$60.00 (-40%)
Tax $6.30
Total $96.29

Purchased: Aug 2 @ 4:15am
The Elder Scrolls Online - 5500 Crown Pack - $42.79
Subtotal $39.99
Tax $2.80
Total $42.79

Purchased: Jul 29 @ 4:28pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 5500 Crown Pack - $42.79
Subtotal $39.99
Tax $2.80
Total $42.79

Purchased: Jul 16 @ 7:28pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 5500 Crown Pack - $42.79
Subtotal $39.99
Tax $2.80
Total $42.79

Purchased: Jun 25 @ 9:26pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 14000 Crown Pack - $101.64
Subtotal $99.99
Discount -$5.00 Your $5.00 discount was applied to this purchase
Tax $6.65
Total $101.64

Purchased: Jun 22 @ 2:01am
The Elder Scrolls Online - 21000 Crown Pack - $160.49
Subtotal $149.99
Tax $10.50
Total $160.49

Purchased: Jun 21 @ 2:02am
The Elder Scrolls Online - 21000 Crown Pack - $160.49
Subtotal $149.99
Tax $10.50
Total $160.49

Purchased: Jun 18 @ 8:55pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 21000 Crown Pack - $160.49
Subtotal $149.99
Tax $10.50
Total $160.49

Purchased: Jun 18 @ 8:13pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 21000 Crown Pack - $160.49
Subtotal $149.99
Tax $10.50
Total $160.49

Purchased: Jun 11 @ 8:40pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 21000 Crown Pack - $160.49
Subtotal $149.99
Tax $10.50
Total $160.49

Purchased: Jun 4 @ 3:55pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 750 Crown Pack - $8.59
Subtotal $7.99
Tax $0.60
Total $8.59

Purchased: May 22 @ 3:34pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 5500 Crown Pack - $42.79
Subtotal $39.99
Tax $2.80
Total $42.79

Purchased: May 1 @ 4:58pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 21000 Crown Pack - $160.49
Subtotal $149.99
Tax $10.50
Total $160.49

Purchased: Apr 23 @ 2:27pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 14000 Crown Pack - $106.99
Subtotal $99.99
Tax $7.00
Total $106.99

Purchased: Apr 3 @ 1:18pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 21000 Crown Pack - $96.29
Subtotal $149.99
Discount -$60.00 (-40%)
Tax $6.30
Total $96.29

Purchased: Apr 2 @ 11:01am
The Elder Scrolls Online - 21000 Crown Pack - $96.29
Subtotal $149.99
Discount -$60.00 (-40%)
Tax $6.30
Total $96.29

Purchased: Apr 2 @ 10:58am
The Elder Scrolls Online - 21000 Crown Pack - $96.29
Subtotal $149.99
Discount -$60.00 (-40%)
Tax $6.30
Total $96.29

Purchased: Mar 31 @ 9:15pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 21000 Crown Pack - $96.29
Subtotal $149.99
Discount -$60.00 (-40%)
Tax $6.30
Total $96.29

Purchased: Mar 26 @ 4:05pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 14000 Crown Pack - $106.99
Subtotal $99.99
Tax $7.00
Total $106.99

Purchased: Mar 23 @ 9:09am
The Elder Scrolls Online - 5500 Crown Pack - $42.79
Subtotal $39.99
Tax $2.80
Total $42.79

Purchased: Mar 13 @ 7:54am
The Elder Scrolls Online - 21000 Crown Pack - $160.49
Subtotal $149.99
Tax $10.50
Total $160.49

Purchased: Feb 24 @ 5:01pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 21000 Crown Pack - $160.49
Subtotal $149.99
Tax $10.50
Total $160.49

Purchased: Feb 8 @ 1:06pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 21000 Crown Pack - $160.49
Subtotal $149.99
Tax $10.50
Total $160.49

Purchased: Feb 3 @ 2:49pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 21000 Crown Pack - $160.49
Subtotal $149.99
Tax $10.50
Total $160.49

Purchased: Jan 24 @ 4:44pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 21000 Crown Pack - $160.49
Subtotal $149.99
Tax $10.50
Total $160.49

Purchased: Jan 23 @ 2:11pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 21000 Crown Pack - $155.14
Subtotal $149.99
Discount -$5.00 Your $5.00 discount was applied to this purchase
Tax $10.15
Total $155.14

Purchased: Jan 19 @ 11:45am
The Elder Scrolls Online - 21000 Crown Pack - $160.49
Subtotal $149.99
Tax $10.50
Total $160.49

Purchased: Jan 18 @ 1:38pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 21000 Crown Pack - $160.49
Subtotal $149.99
Tax $10.50
Total $160.49

Purchased: Jan 16 @ 6:15pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 21000 Crown Pack - $160.49
Subtotal $149.99
Tax $10.50
Total $160.49

Purchased: Jan 10 @ 9:08am
The Elder Scrolls Online - 21000 Crown Pack - $160.49
Subtotal $149.99
Tax $10.50
Total $160.49

Purchased: Jan 7 @ 1:05pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 1500 Crown Pack - $16.04
Subtotal $14.99
Tax $1.05
Total $16.04

Purchased: Dec 23, 2019 @ 12:28pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 21000 Crown Pack - $96.29
Subtotal $149.99
Discount -$60.00 (-40%)
Tax $6.30
Total $96.29

Purchased: Dec 20, 2019 @ 2:20pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 21000 Crown Pack - $96.29
Subtotal $149.99
Discount -$60.00 (-40%)
Tax $6.30
Total $96.29

Purchased: Dec 19, 2019 @ 12:34pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 21000 Crown Pack - $160.49
Subtotal $149.99
Tax $10.50
Total $160.49

Purchased: Dec 12, 2019 @ 12:52pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 21000 Crown Pack - $160.49
Subtotal $149.99
Tax $10.50
Total $160.49

Purchased: Nov 26, 2019 @ 9:49pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 21000 Crown Pack - $160.49
Subtotal $149.99
Tax $10.50
Total $160.49

If anyone can figure out how many crates that is , Would appreciate it the $160 is for 21000 crowns which I used all but 12000 crowns out of that only on crates I bought a house with that I think , I received 1 radiant apex mount either in December or January , This is why crates are getting banned - it's not gambling if you can not win , hell the taxes I paid were probably more then most spend on crowns all year . I'm not even sure if the mount I got was from any of this .

VaranisArano

You want to know how many crates you bought/opened?

Um...if you didn't keep track yourself, the closest you can probably get is to add up how many crowns you bought, then figure out how many 15-crate packs you could buy with that amount.

But fine, I like doing math.
Total Crowns:
27 ×21k=567,000
3×14k=42,000
7×5500=38,500
+1500
+750
Total: 649,750
-12000 for a house?

So approx 637,750 crowns spent on crown crates.

Cost of 15 Crown Crate pack (most bang for your buck) = 5000 for 15
Or 1500 for 4 crates
400 for 1 crate

637,750 crowns = approx 127 15-packs,1 4-pack, 3 single crates, and 50 crowns left over.

You've bought around 1,912 Crown Crates.

(Incidentally, last time we did the math, you could fully outfit a single character with all the non-infinite items or an account with all the non-infinite and non-character specific stuff in the Crown Store for that amount of Crowns: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/467175/how-much-for-buy-everything-in-crown-store )

driosketch

Was it 1,912 crates?

idk

I do not understand why people spend a lot of money on crates. I also do not understand why big spenders on crates complain about the crates.

Do what I do. Do not buy the crates.

VaranisArano

idk wrote: »

I do not understand why people spend a lot of money on crates. I also do not understand why big spenders on crates complain about the crates.

Do what I do. Do not buy the crates.

Yeah. And the radiant apex are specifically designed to get people to thrown large amounts of money at crates with no guarantee of getting them.

Sure, people can spend their money how they like, but I'm not putting my disposable income towards Crown Crates.

SickleCider

You opened enough that it was sincerely intimidating for me to try to start doing the math. I'm glad other people were able to help you and I hope it's eye opening.

Jaimeh

I don't know why it's still a surprise at this point that radiant apex from crates are extremely rare, and that it's not worth getting crates specifically for them. I like the items in crates, they are unique and cool-looking, and the process is exciting, so I buy a pack each season, nowdays with in-game gold, and if I get something nice, then great, if not then tough luck. It's only cosmetics, and there's plenty of other pretty things to aquire in the game. It's frustrating if they have something you really like, but they cost a lot, and the gambling aspect of them can also make them really dangerous. So whatever you do, just make is a conscious choice, and not driven by 'next odds will be in my favour', because the odds have been recorded, and they are really low for radiant mounts.

Zer0_CooL

So that's $4'505.- in less than a year.

You could ge prety neat stuff for your real house with this amount of cash.

idk wrote: »

I do not understand why people spend a lot of money on crates

Perhaps we are too poor to understand ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Nairinhe

I buy crates only when I'm several gems short of something I reeeeeally want and I like most of current season's offerings, so I won't be frustrated by "ungemmable" drops.

As for people who spend that much on them:

1. I envy you that you have that much free money
2. You can, of course, spend your money however you see fit

[snip]

[edited for baiting]

vamp_emily

Not sure if you got anything good but Zeni loves you.

firefrosti

that's not even all of it , I'm just trying to show that no matter how much you spend you will not receive a radiant apex mount and I'm listing proof those are straight from steam on purchase history - that is why countries are banning them , there is no chance the amount of crates that were opened is mind numbing and no mount - the one mount I did get was in november and wasn't part of this pass in crowns , If I linked how much I spent on getting that one you all would really be like WTF?

Taleof2Cities

@firefrosti, there’s a difference between poor RNG and (in your words) “... you will not receive a radiant apex mount ...”

It’s a very small chance ... but the chance still exists for you and every other player that buys Crown Crates.

Remember, Crown Crates are cosmetic rewards. There are no real money or tangible real life rewards from them ... so the reference to bans in certain countries is a lot harder to apply.

firefrosti

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

@firefrosti, there’s a difference between poor RNG and (in your words) “... you will not receive a radiant apex mount ...”

It’s a very small chance ... but the chance still exists for you and every other player that buys Crown Crates.

Remember, Crown Crates are cosmetic rewards. There are no real money or tangible real life rewards from them ... so the reference to bans in certain countries is a lot harder to apply.

there needs to be some accountability in the crates if you spend 4500 bucks and are not able to get a mount then what does that say about the crates ? when it is listed on eso's site that there is a .006 chance to obtain the radiant apex mounts I should've gotten 19 total mounts out of the 1800-1900 crates

Taleof2Cities

firefrosti wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

@firefrosti, there’s a difference between poor RNG and (in your words) “... you will not receive a radiant apex mount ...”

It’s a very small chance ... but the chance still exists for you and every other player that buys Crown Crates.

Remember, Crown Crates are cosmetic rewards. There are no real money or tangible real life rewards from them ... so the reference to bans in certain countries is a lot harder to apply.

there needs to be some accountability in the crates if you spend 4500 bucks and are not able to get a mount then what does that say about the crates ? when it is listed on eso's site that there is a .006 chance to obtain the radiant apex mounts I should've gotten 19 total mounts out of the 1800-1900 crates

Accountability??

Really?

Is that what you say to the pit boss when you walk in to your nearest casino?

firefrosti

just an update , spent another 50 bucks today and got the radiant apex mount - the frost/lightning cat it does look pretty sweet , is it worth the 4550 bucks? na lol - hundreds of casinos get busted every week for the odds not being as described , that's why they have an over seer commission on gaming in the usa , my uncle owned a casino , and had to get people to check the slots to make sure they were " loose" enough to comply with navada's gaming laws - the posted odds are accountability . for an experiment do this , goto your local corner market and purchase a lottery ticket , a scratcher - flip it over - it will say odds of winning 1 : 3.69943 ect so you can account that 1 in 4 tickets will be a winner , it doesn't state that 1 in 4 are million dollar winners but that 1 in 4 is a winner - buy 3 more and see how many times it works , now if they place the winning scratcher in the middle of the 1st 4 then the numbers will differ slightly but all the same - scratch it off till you get a winner then buy 4 more and you will also get a winner , rinse and repeat till you hit the big time - that's where most of the cash I bought these crates with came from was scratch offs . google the gaming commission and see how many times casinos get sued by people for bad odds . there are a lot of card counters that get busted also . - my uncle no longer owns a casino .

Taleof2Cities

Ah, now we know the mysterious driving force behind this thread ... you have an uncle that used to own a casino.

Well, if you're well versed with how the odds work, then you definitely understand the difference between 1 in 4 odds (25% in your lottery scratcher scenario) compared 1 in 333 odds (.3%) of getting a radiant apex mount.

Not to mention anyone that participates in games of chance can go on a "bad streak" of luck at any time ... even in casinos where the odds are published and reviewed periodically by the gaming commission.

Looks like this case is closed.

RABIDxWOLVERINE

I thought I spent a lot of money since launch but you doubled that real quick lol thanks for helping keep the servers live lol

Adernath

I see the creates, and in particular the gamble with the radiant apex mounts, as some sort of intelligence check whether a person is mature enough for the use of money. Hmm... who failed?

Prof_Bawbag

firefrosti wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

@firefrosti, there’s a difference between poor RNG and (in your words) “... you will not receive a radiant apex mount ...”

It’s a very small chance ... but the chance still exists for you and every other player that buys Crown Crates.

Remember, Crown Crates are cosmetic rewards. There are no real money or tangible real life rewards from them ... so the reference to bans in certain countries is a lot harder to apply.

there needs to be some accountability in the crates if you spend 4500 bucks and are not able to get a mount then what does that say about the crates ? when it is listed on eso's site that there is a .006 chance to obtain the radiant apex mounts I should've gotten 19 total mounts out of the 1800-1900 crates

Chance doesn't work like that (though game code etc isn't chance in the true sense of chance). For example, toss a coin and there's a 50% chance it will land on heads. Doesn't mean it can't land on the tail side up 10 out of 10 times. Doesn't change the 50% chance.

Works the other way too. I could buy one crate and get that mount. That would mean in my case the odds changed from .006 to 100% when we all know my odds were never 100%, they were still .006.

DigitalHype

firefrosti wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

@firefrosti, there’s a difference between poor RNG and (in your words) “... you will not receive a radiant apex mount ...”

It’s a very small chance ... but the chance still exists for you and every other player that buys Crown Crates.

Remember, Crown Crates are cosmetic rewards. There are no real money or tangible real life rewards from them ... so the reference to bans in certain countries is a lot harder to apply.

there needs to be some accountability in the crates if you spend 4500 bucks and are not able to get a mount then what does that say about the crates ? when it is listed on eso's site that there is a .006 chance to obtain the radiant apex mounts I should've gotten 19 total mounts out of the 1800-1900 crates

Just because the aggregate sampled odds were .006, doesn't mean every customer has the same odds. Nowhere does ZoS ever publish any information about your chances of obtaining an item from a crown crate. They have never said this is pure RNG. If they don't explicitly state that, you have to assume it might not be.

tactx

firefrosti wrote: »

Here's what my crown crates looked like ,

Purchased: Sep 3 @ 2:39pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 21000 Crown Pack - $160.49
Subtotal $149.99
Tax $10.50
Total $160.49

Purchased: Aug 24 @ 3:24pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 5500 Crown Pack - $42.79
Subtotal $39.99
Tax $2.80
Total $42.79

Purchased: Aug 5 @ 8:08am
The Elder Scrolls Online - 5500 Crown Pack - $29.95
Subtotal $39.99
Discount -$12.00 (-30%)
Tax $1.96
Total $29.95

Purchased: Aug 5 @ 8:04am
The Elder Scrolls Online - 21000 Crown Pack - $96.29
Subtotal $149.99
Discount -$60.00 (-40%)
Tax $6.30
Total $96.29

Purchased: Aug 2 @ 4:15am
The Elder Scrolls Online - 5500 Crown Pack - $42.79
Subtotal $39.99
Tax $2.80
Total $42.79

Purchased: Jul 29 @ 4:28pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 5500 Crown Pack - $42.79
Subtotal $39.99
Tax $2.80
Total $42.79

Purchased: Jul 16 @ 7:28pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 5500 Crown Pack - $42.79
Subtotal $39.99
Tax $2.80
Total $42.79

Purchased: Jun 25 @ 9:26pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 14000 Crown Pack - $101.64
Subtotal $99.99
Discount -$5.00 Your $5.00 discount was applied to this purchase
Tax $6.65
Total $101.64

Purchased: Jun 22 @ 2:01am
The Elder Scrolls Online - 21000 Crown Pack - $160.49
Subtotal $149.99
Tax $10.50
Total $160.49

Purchased: Jun 21 @ 2:02am
The Elder Scrolls Online - 21000 Crown Pack - $160.49
Subtotal $149.99
Tax $10.50
Total $160.49

Purchased: Jun 18 @ 8:55pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 21000 Crown Pack - $160.49
Subtotal $149.99
Tax $10.50
Total $160.49

Purchased: Jun 18 @ 8:13pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 21000 Crown Pack - $160.49
Subtotal $149.99
Tax $10.50
Total $160.49

Purchased: Jun 11 @ 8:40pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 21000 Crown Pack - $160.49
Subtotal $149.99
Tax $10.50
Total $160.49

Purchased: Jun 4 @ 3:55pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 750 Crown Pack - $8.59
Subtotal $7.99
Tax $0.60
Total $8.59

Purchased: May 22 @ 3:34pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 5500 Crown Pack - $42.79
Subtotal $39.99
Tax $2.80
Total $42.79

Purchased: May 1 @ 4:58pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 21000 Crown Pack - $160.49
Subtotal $149.99
Tax $10.50
Total $160.49

Purchased: Apr 23 @ 2:27pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 14000 Crown Pack - $106.99
Subtotal $99.99
Tax $7.00
Total $106.99

Purchased: Apr 3 @ 1:18pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 21000 Crown Pack - $96.29
Subtotal $149.99
Discount -$60.00 (-40%)
Tax $6.30
Total $96.29

Purchased: Apr 2 @ 11:01am
The Elder Scrolls Online - 21000 Crown Pack - $96.29
Subtotal $149.99
Discount -$60.00 (-40%)
Tax $6.30
Total $96.29

Purchased: Apr 2 @ 10:58am
The Elder Scrolls Online - 21000 Crown Pack - $96.29
Subtotal $149.99
Discount -$60.00 (-40%)
Tax $6.30
Total $96.29

Purchased: Mar 31 @ 9:15pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 21000 Crown Pack - $96.29
Subtotal $149.99
Discount -$60.00 (-40%)
Tax $6.30
Total $96.29

Purchased: Mar 26 @ 4:05pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 14000 Crown Pack - $106.99
Subtotal $99.99
Tax $7.00
Total $106.99

Purchased: Mar 23 @ 9:09am
The Elder Scrolls Online - 5500 Crown Pack - $42.79
Subtotal $39.99
Tax $2.80
Total $42.79

Purchased: Mar 13 @ 7:54am
The Elder Scrolls Online - 21000 Crown Pack - $160.49
Subtotal $149.99
Tax $10.50
Total $160.49

Purchased: Feb 24 @ 5:01pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 21000 Crown Pack - $160.49
Subtotal $149.99
Tax $10.50
Total $160.49

Purchased: Feb 8 @ 1:06pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 21000 Crown Pack - $160.49
Subtotal $149.99
Tax $10.50
Total $160.49

Purchased: Feb 3 @ 2:49pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 21000 Crown Pack - $160.49
Subtotal $149.99
Tax $10.50
Total $160.49

Purchased: Jan 24 @ 4:44pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 21000 Crown Pack - $160.49
Subtotal $149.99
Tax $10.50
Total $160.49

Purchased: Jan 23 @ 2:11pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 21000 Crown Pack - $155.14
Subtotal $149.99
Discount -$5.00 Your $5.00 discount was applied to this purchase
Tax $10.15
Total $155.14

Purchased: Jan 19 @ 11:45am
The Elder Scrolls Online - 21000 Crown Pack - $160.49
Subtotal $149.99
Tax $10.50
Total $160.49

Purchased: Jan 18 @ 1:38pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 21000 Crown Pack - $160.49
Subtotal $149.99
Tax $10.50
Total $160.49

Purchased: Jan 16 @ 6:15pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 21000 Crown Pack - $160.49
Subtotal $149.99
Tax $10.50
Total $160.49

Purchased: Jan 10 @ 9:08am
The Elder Scrolls Online - 21000 Crown Pack - $160.49
Subtotal $149.99
Tax $10.50
Total $160.49

Purchased: Jan 7 @ 1:05pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 1500 Crown Pack - $16.04
Subtotal $14.99
Tax $1.05
Total $16.04

Purchased: Dec 23, 2019 @ 12:28pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 21000 Crown Pack - $96.29
Subtotal $149.99
Discount -$60.00 (-40%)
Tax $6.30
Total $96.29

Purchased: Dec 20, 2019 @ 2:20pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 21000 Crown Pack - $96.29
Subtotal $149.99
Discount -$60.00 (-40%)
Tax $6.30
Total $96.29

Purchased: Dec 19, 2019 @ 12:34pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 21000 Crown Pack - $160.49
Subtotal $149.99
Tax $10.50
Total $160.49

Purchased: Dec 12, 2019 @ 12:52pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 21000 Crown Pack - $160.49
Subtotal $149.99
Tax $10.50
Total $160.49

Purchased: Nov 26, 2019 @ 9:49pm
The Elder Scrolls Online - 21000 Crown Pack - $160.49
Subtotal $149.99
Tax $10.50
Total $160.49

If anyone can figure out how many crates that is , Would appreciate it the $160 is for 21000 crowns which I used all but 12000 crowns out of that only on crates I bought a house with that I think , I received 1 radiant apex mount either in December or January , This is why crates are getting banned - it's not gambling if you can not win , hell the taxes I paid were probably more then most spend on crowns all year . I'm not even sure if the mount I got was from any of this .

How many gems do you have?

DigitalHype

Take a look at this publication in ScienceDirect. This isn't about ESO. It's regarding the gaming industry.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0747563219302602

They analyze multiple patents related to in-game purchasing and monetizaiton. Some really good information regarding concept of information asymmetry and how it applies to the abstract of this paper.

This is a quote from the paper, not me nor the paper's authors making any statements regard ZoS or ESO.

"Further, the reviewed patents suggest that the resulting information asymmetry may not only be sustained over time but may also become more imbalanced in ways that favor the computer system. In other words, as a player invests more time in the game (i.e., demonstrating his or her preferences, choices, actions, and so on), the system becomes more capable of anticipating and responding to the player, which enables fine-tuning of offers to achieve optimal odds of consumer acceptance. In this sense, the game may become more ‘difficult’ or expensive to play over time."

There is no need for someone to "sit behind the glass" in these scenarios. There exist sophisticated algorithms that can handle dynamic odds.

If ZoS would either publish the odds of drops in a Crown Crate or explicitly state that the chances are entirely randomized and consistent for all players, at all times, then I would know that is the case. But they do neither of these things. The Crown Crate system is a "black box". We have no idea what the odds are at any given time, for any particular player.

tomofhyrule

DigitalHype wrote: »

If ZoS would either publish the odds of drops in a Crown Crate or explicitly state that the chances are entirely randomized and consistent for all players, at all times, then I would know that is the case. But they do neither of these things. The Crown Crate system is a "black box". We have no idea what the odds are at any given time, for any particular player.

ZOS does actually publish the general odds for crates:
https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/49828
...and interestingly enough, crowncrates.com shows that the drop rates for Epic and Legendary are actually a bit higher than what ZOS reports.

Yes, it's not piece-by-piece, but they do at least list their drop rates.

Now don't get me wrong - I would be much happier if Crown Crates and gems were not a thing and we could just buy things we want with crowns instead of having to pray to RNGesus, but it isn't true that ZOS doesn't talk about their drop rates. They don't advertise it so you have to hunt for it and they're a bit bare bones, but they're there.

DigitalHype

tomofhyrule wrote: »

DigitalHype wrote: »

If ZoS would either publish the odds of drops in a Crown Crate or explicitly state that the chances are entirely randomized and consistent for all players, at all times, then I would know that is the case. But they do neither of these things. The Crown Crate system is a "black box". We have no idea what the odds are at any given time, for any particular player.

ZOS does actually publish the general odds for crates:
https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/49828
...and interestingly enough, crowncrates.com shows that the drop rates for Epic and Legendary are actually a bit higher than what ZOS reports.

Yes, it's not piece-by-piece, but they do at least list their drop rates.

Now don't get me wrong - I would be much happier if Crown Crates and gems were not a thing and we could just buy things we want with crowns instead of having to pray to RNGesus, but it isn't true that ZOS doesn't talk about their drop rates. They don't advertise it so you have to hunt for it and they're a bit bare bones, but they're there.

Thank for that information. That is a start. But, there is still a lot of vagueness and room for dynamic adjustments based on predictive algorithms with repsect to Radiant rewards (highly desired by big spenders as evidenced by the OP).

There is no mention of chance regarding radiant apex They are publishing specific odds for all the reward groups. Why not also publish the specific % chance on Radiant. vs. only saying "some"? By not listing those odds, we have no confirmaiton that it is even a fixed set of odds for all players at all times.

Some Crown Crates contain Radiant versions of Apex rewards.

Some Crown Crates contain rare rewards that have special qualities.

MrGhosty

I just wish they would convert the consumables from daily logins back into their identical crown crate counterparts. That would at least give people who are paying for the game in terms of their time (time spent in-game means people in queues, trading to others, helping with worldbosses, going into PvP) could have an avenue to at least acquire some of the crown crate items without having to gamble.

Of course the ideal is to get rid of them completely, but short of them being outright banned somewhere or MS stepping in next year I doubt that is likely to happen.

The radiant mounts are cool, as are the apex mounts. I look at neither anymore because I'm not going to waste money trying for them and am unlikely to get any of them by my usual behavior.

Taleof2Cities

MrGhosty wrote: »

I just wish they would convert the consumables from daily logins back into their identical crown crate counterparts. That would at least give people who are paying for the game in terms of their time (time spent in-game means people in queues, trading to others, helping with worldbosses, going into PvP) could have an avenue to at least acquire some of the crown crate items without having to gamble.

You can do that already, @MrGhosty, through Crown gifting with in-game gold.

I've never spent a dime on Crown Crates ... it's always been gifting through in-game gold.

Of course, it helps to use a trusted brokerage or clearing house (such as Tamriel Crown Exchange or World Crown Exchange) when making that sort of transaction. That way there's never any issues.

Spark

Of course the crates are predatory. Just like any other gambling is. A lot of manipulative tactics are used to make people spend more. The very first being - you buy crowns and not crates, so then you don't directly see how many dollars you paid on a virtual item. That is something practically all microtransaction schemes do, you have to buy a virtual currency first to get that disconnect between real cash and virtual shopping. But on top of that, there's the gambling aspect, that definitely gets milked for what it's worth. People are vulnerable to getting addicted to gambling for many psychological reasons, and some individuals more than others. I don't think anyone thinks OP got their money's worth here. Honestly, loot boxes are more like a scam that's only legal because no one had thought to make it illegal.

BomblePants

Gulps.... I’m wondering if @firefrosti is actually a Prince if a small country or something .... how.... why....

dude, think of the children....

newtinmpls

The house always wins.