"Experienced" writers

Mystic_wolf479

So, any female over the age of 22 and any male over that age of 35 will know what I'm talking about here.
You can tell that a lot of the quests, stories and dialogue was written by younger people.
My main example here is that almost every random NPC complains...That's all they do is complain, now you prove to me that's not the writing of a young person and I'll cut off my own big tow and mail it to you lol.

Another example is;
idk if this is due to the lesions on my brain stem that cause random outbursts of hysterical laughter or crying [sometimes both lol] but there is one quest imparticular that hit my heart right in the nuts.
That's around the end of the Psijic quest when that woman's husband like sacrifices himself...I don't want to spoil the whole thing for anyone or not remember it right but pretty much it was really emotional and I liked that quest the most out of any that I've done in the game. And I've been playing since beta so I've done I think all of them by now lol.
It could also be ptsd lol any number of neurological things that's wrong atm but pretty much I'd like some more quests with some deeper writing and storytelling.

Lately, quests feel really similar. Like those application questionnaires that ask the same question multiple times using different words lol.
I've been through some [snip], I'll write some stuff and submit an application.

Does anyone have any starting off points or general quest ideas that could fit the bill?

[Edited for Censor Bypass]

MajThorax

I played a couple weeks ago the skyrim questline and I noticed a more casual, out of the era language, with more swearing and less depth compared to the dialogues the eso had when it came out. Quality has dropped indeed.

FrancisCrawford

MajThorax wrote: »

I played a couple weeks ago the skyrim questline and I noticed a more casual, out of the era language, with more swearing and less depth compared to the dialogues the eso had when it came out. Quality has dropped indeed.

Story-telling writing was uneven from the getgo -- just compare Rivenspire at one extreme to the EP zones (Deshaan somewhat excepted) at the other.

There's still the occasional bit of humor in the new stuff, e.g. Gwendis' "That escalated fast".

I suspect Clockwork City of having a screwed up process, because there were brilliant ideas (Sotha Sil's sister, the humor, the political references) but also misfires. (The pacing around the tragic death was awful, and Sotha Sil's sister didn't yield a payoff.)

AcadianPaladin

Age vs complaining is irrelevant. While there is a bit of truth to with age comes wisdom, just as often young jerks and whiners simply grow up to be old jerks and whiners. I think it undermines the thread and any quest/dialogue writing critique to somehow try and link it to 'age vs complaining'.

Ri_Khan

There's quite a few folks that always bring up how amazing and well written the stories and dialogue are in this game. These kinds of comments always confuse me to no end and make me wonder if I'm even playing the same game. Some of the earlier stuff was decent but it's all been copy/pasta since.

vestahls

Yeah, it's clear not the same amount of thought went into the writing here as in Morrowind, or even Oblivion. There's been some fun or memorable stuff in ESO, like Rigurt, or some of the Clockwork City stuff, but for the most part, I've seen better quests in Arena and those were randomly generated.

richo262

You can tell the story telling is in the gutter atm.

Elsweyr had a princess hero story, that I actually think was done quite well. She had military loyalists training her, her skills were explained, the goal is to get her back on the throne (or at least remove what is now there). It didn't feel forced, or artificial and the story they had was something worth telling.

Greymoor - Exact same story, girl is a drunkard, turns into hero in 3 quests, explores half of Blackreach solo and ends up in a vampire camp in her pajamas. Dad is a buffoon, general scooby doo villian story. Very forced, felt like they were pushing a narrative and a particular agenda (no male nord NPC's?).

I figured, after the prologue eluding to a potential clash of kings, and the Skyrim theme song (I often listen to) oozing testosterone, and the previous story was a female heroine, I was somewhat expecting a to be joining a viking army of Ragnar Lothbroks but instead got lumped in with what felt like an "army" of Righurts. There was only 2 or 3 male NPC's and they were all quick to announce how much of a coward they are. I was beginning the think the secret of Blackreach was, all the men had left Skyrim and were getting drunk in a toolshed down there somewhere. I did find 1 male NPC in the middle town, he was naked for some reason, I guess that explains how West Skyrim has a population, poor *** must be exhausted.

I was expecting the story to be 2 strong headed kings going at it, then figuring out a mutual enemy and banding together to defend skyrim. Nope, just a generic rehash that felt like it was trying to score political points over telling any form of well thought out story.

I REALLY hope that the ESO writing team stays away from TES6. I do not have high hopes for the next DLC expansion.

Stratloc

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

Age vs complaining is irrelevant. While there is a bit of truth to with age comes wisdom, just as often young jerks and whiners simply grow up to be old jerks and whiners. I think it undermines the thread and any quest/dialogue writing critique to somehow try and link it to 'age vs complaining'.

Also, sexist. Imagine the outrage if you flipped the genders in the first sentence of OP

HappyTheCamper

This whole thread just makes me laugh.

MashmalloMan

I'm sorry, I know this is a "grammar ***" thing to do, but it's hella ironic given the subject matter. I suppose storytelling doesn't necessarily need to be tied down by poor grammar and spelling, that's what editors are for, but funny nonetheless to read especially given the OP's tone.

Mystic_wolf479 wrote: »

...I'll cut off my own big tow and mail it to you lol.

...there is one quest imparticular that hit my heart right in the nuts.

Personally, I find it hard to get into the story content for this game because nothing has real stakes, consequences or difficulty. Every enemy in overland content has the same 30-120k health that you can kill in 2-5 seconds. Unfortunate because my favourite games, the games that made me want to become a game developer in the first place are largely single player story driven titles like the Last of Us, Uncharted, God of War, Halo, etc.

When a game like the Last of Us makes you cry within 30 minutes, it shows how much power an interactive story can have on the player, it makes it hard to not see video games as an artistic medium and it's a shame ESO can't replicate that for me. I wish ZOS would add more gravity to the story content and the combat surrounding them in this game, maybe then I'd care.

Over half the DLC content every year is story driven and it should be 1 of the biggest selling features of this game, the world building is fantastic and all dialogue is voiced, yet I have almost 0 interest in completing most of it.

Moloch1514

Hard to stay awake doing story quests in new DLC. Recently did Bleakrock (vanilla starter island) and those quests were actually entertaining and engaging, and I've done that island 10 times in the past.

Shantu

Canned, rushed, uninspired, stiff, predictable, and lifeless. Good writing makes people care. Bad writing just makes us indifferent. Every new release I tell myself I'm going to take my time and get into the story. Invariably I'm soon skipping dialog to get the skill points and get it over with. There is the occasional flare that touches the heart and humor, but it's exceedingly rare. Beyond efforts to generate profit, it's like the people who produce this game have stopped caring.

Jaimeh

Shantu wrote: »

Canned, rushed, uninspired, stiff, predictable, and lifeless. Good writing makes people care. Bad writing just makes us indifferent. Every new release I tell myself I'm going to take my time and get into the story. Invariably I'm soon skipping dialog to get the skill points and get it over with. There is the occasional flare that touches the heart and humor, but it's exceedingly rare. Beyond efforts to generate profit, it's like the people who produce this game have stopped caring.

The recent chapter was particularly bad compered to the previous ones. It wasn't just the story, which was basically a repackaged elsweyr plot, nor the uncompelling characters, it was the dialogues themselves... if the dialogues were better, they could have elevated the meh plot. I was especially baffled by Lyris' dialogues, main quest!Lyris was so much more interesting and fun, and her interactions with the vestige are kind of strange, given how much they've been through together.

dangeraaron10

Moloch1514 wrote: »

Hard to stay awake doing story quests in new DLC. Recently did Bleakrock (vanilla starter island) and those quests were actually entertaining and engaging, and I've done that island 10 times in the past.

Good to know I'm not alone in this. Bleakrock and Khenarthi's Roost are some of my favorite zones.

Nairinhe

I must be either dumb or with standards lower than Blackreach floor, because I enjoyed all the ESO stories so far. I mean, some are better than others, of course, and I've yet to see story better than that of Orsinium, but still. They make me laugh, they make me cry, they make me care for characters. I cant wait to see what happens in Q4.
And I cannot for the life of me see how Greymoor story is the same as Elsweyr's. They both have a princess? Oh, horror.

P.S.

richo262 wrote: »

no male nord NPC's?

There are important male NPC, from the top of my head - Jarl Reddharn and Swordthane Uthlet. My BF also said that he found Western Skyrim story "very female" so far. But then he added that there should be "only males" so that kinda invalidates his opinion

Raisin

As many have said, the age of the writers is hardly the issue here. It's just bad writing. Everything reads very stilted, the NPCs talk like their whole purpose is to shove exposition at you, etc. I love some of the quests and characters, but it requires a bit of... Well, interpreting, and attempting to see behind the awkward dialogue. The voice acting also often has this exact same problem as well. Just very cheesy and hard to become immersed in.
A big shock for me is often switching from this to a Dragon Age game. The quality dialogue and voice acting in DA:O just... hits you in the face. It's like real people talking; the complete other end of the spectrum.

MasterSpatula

While I agree with the premise that the storytelling has taken a noteworthy dip, I have to draw the line at "Elsweyr and Greymoor have the same story." That's utter nonsense.

Yeesh, some of you would have thought Shakespeare was a one-trick pony if Hamlet and Henry V has both been princesses instead of princes.

FlopsyPrince

Quality has become much less important in our modern world, as other things are made to be more important.

Thus we get lower quality, less thought and sadly, less solid humor.

Vevvev

Nairinhe wrote: »

richo262 wrote: »

no male nord NPC's?

There are important male NPC, from the top of my head - Jarl Reddharn and Swordthane Uthlet. My BF also said that he found Western Skyrim story "very female" so far. But then he added that there should be "only males" so that kinda invalidates his opinion

Eh, not really. More like what he expected from a Nordic land =/= what actually happened. There are a ton of quests involving women in Western Skyrim, and while I don't mind women playing a role in quests it was very excessive and noticeable. That being said there were some really neat quests with male characters like the Lightless Hollow, but the vast majority of the time they were the villains for some reason or involved Narsis Dren/Rigurt. I hate Narsis Dren...

VoxAdActa

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Yeesh, some of you would have thought Shakespeare was a one-trick pony if Hamlet and Henry V has both been princesses instead of princes.

Right?

It's so weird to me when someone complains about something like "No male Nord NPCs", when I simply can't imagine that complaint ever being leveled in reverse on a forum like this.

Note to ESO designers: don't put any women at all in the next expansion questline, so we can see if the number of complaints is the same. There's a hypothesis I want to test.

Nairinhe

Vevvev wrote: »

Nairinhe wrote: »

richo262 wrote: »

no male nord NPC's?

There are important male NPC, from the top of my head - Jarl Reddharn and Swordthane Uthlet. My BF also said that he found Western Skyrim story "very female" so far. But then he added that there should be "only males" so that kinda invalidates his opinion

Eh, not really. More like what he expected from a Nordic land =/= what actually happened. There are a ton of quests involving women in Western Skyrim, and while I don't mind women playing a role in quests it was very excessive and noticeable. That being said there were some really neat quests with male characters like the Lightless Hollow, but the vast majority of the time they were the villains for some reason or involved Narsis Dren/Rigurt. I hate Narsis Dren...

I guess that's my superpower then, never ever noticing such stuff

drkfrontiers

Here's me thinking that every storyline treats men like either idiots or needing rescuing by their wives or some heroine... The feminist slant to it is a major source of eyerolling for me personally.

OldManJim

To me the Greymoor story was a boring cliche. Reluctant princess has to overthrow a moustache twirling evil king that is just a puppet of the real bad guy. Snore.

I think peak story was Wrothgar.

Morrowind wasn’t too bad.
Summerset was ok, but it was odd that it mentioned the Three Banners War was over but in reality it isn’t.

They really need to progress the storyline properly. Like reopen Bleakrock Isle, stop the dolmens and make Cyrodiil a non-AvA area, stop infinite troops invading the same beach head ad nauseum. Give players the option to progress in time but also let those that want to PvP or grind dolmens have their own instances.

Edit: Forgot about Elsweyr...that felt like a ratings grab. Screw the lore...we need dragons!

Malthorne

Princes, princesses, or whatever.. it doesn’t matter. The writing/storytelling for Greymoor was very bad and it has to improve for future releases.

ChaosWotan

Dialogues appear to be more dragged through the sewer, which is juvenile. I had planned to do all the quests in ESO once again, since I don't remember that much after doing it the last time, about five years ago. But the occasional vulgarity and "subtly" politicized content on top of (some) storylines with relative lack of true creativity put ESO in a different category than the best fantasy and sci-fi novels. Until they improve the dialogues of the pve storylines I will stick to pvp instead of listening to NPCs saying stuff.

FlopsyPrince

drkfrontiers wrote: »

Here's me thinking that every storyline treats men like either idiots or needing rescuing by their wives or some heroine... The feminist slant to it is a major source of eyerolling for me personally.

That is true in most media today. To "balance things out" you are not allowed to have anything that could be considered "traditional roles" so you must have stories like this!

Malthorne wrote: »

Princes, princesses, or whatever.. it doesn’t matter. The writing/storytelling for Greymoor was very bad and it has to improve for future releases.

That is a result of the first part. Quality is out the window.

(I am just noting the state of things, not arguing in favor of anything. Shoving modern values into a ancient fantasy world is odd. Just like having "dating" in a Wuxia or XiaXia novel!)

Sylvermynx

OldManJim wrote: »

To me the Greymoor story was a boring cliche. Reluctant princess has to overthrow a moustache twirling evil king that is just a puppet of the real bad guy. Snore.

I think peak story was Wrothgar.

Morrowind wasn’t too bad.
Summerset was ok, but it was odd that it mentioned the Three Banners War was over but in reality it isn’t.

They really need to progress the storyline properly. Like reopen Bleakrock Isle, stop the dolmens and make Cyrodiil a non-AvA area, stop infinite troops invading the same beach head ad nauseum. Give players the option to progress in time but also let those that want to PvP or grind dolmens have their own instances.

Edit: Forgot about Elsweyr...that felt like a ratings grab. Screw the lore...we need dragons!

In order to progress in that manner, they'd have to instance all content to every character's progression through it.

Nightmare time in an MMO....

ArchMikem

Why such a large age gap between genders?

OldManJim

Sylvermynx wrote: »

OldManJim wrote: »

To me the Greymoor story was a boring cliche. Reluctant princess has to overthrow a moustache twirling evil king that is just a puppet of the real bad guy. Snore.

I think peak story was Wrothgar.

Morrowind wasn’t too bad.
Summerset was ok, but it was odd that it mentioned the Three Banners War was over but in reality it isn’t.

They really need to progress the storyline properly. Like reopen Bleakrock Isle, stop the dolmens and make Cyrodiil a non-AvA area, stop infinite troops invading the same beach head ad nauseum. Give players the option to progress in time but also let those that want to PvP or grind dolmens have their own instances.

Edit: Forgot about Elsweyr...that felt like a ratings grab. Screw the lore...we need dragons!

In order to progress in that manner, they'd have to instance all content to every character's progression through it.

Nightmare time in an MMO....

I’d do it more as a 2 stage progression: once you’ve finished Cadwell’s Gold you can pick a pre or post war.

Sylvermynx

ArchMikem wrote: »

Why such a large age gap between genders?

Yeah, I wondered about that....

OldManJim wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

OldManJim wrote: »

To me the Greymoor story was a boring cliche. Reluctant princess has to overthrow a moustache twirling evil king that is just a puppet of the real bad guy. Snore.

I think peak story was Wrothgar.

Morrowind wasn’t too bad.
Summerset was ok, but it was odd that it mentioned the Three Banners War was over but in reality it isn’t.

They really need to progress the storyline properly. Like reopen Bleakrock Isle, stop the dolmens and make Cyrodiil a non-AvA area, stop infinite troops invading the same beach head ad nauseum. Give players the option to progress in time but also let those that want to PvP or grind dolmens have their own instances.

Edit: Forgot about Elsweyr...that felt like a ratings grab. Screw the lore...we need dragons!

In order to progress in that manner, they'd have to instance all content to every character's progression through it.

Nightmare time in an MMO....

I’d do it more as a 2 stage progression: once you’ve finished Cadwell’s Gold you can pick a pre or post war.

Eh, actually that could work. I only do Cadwell's on my mains, but that wouldn't matter, as the alts are just "fun and games"....

Pauwer

I can remember quests that i did when i started playing and played through the 3 factions, but i can't remember at all most of the newer quests. Maybe i don't pay that much attention anymore or maybe they are forgettable. Dunno.