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Crystal Blast is Gone?
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Runaerian✭✭✭Pet aggro is the issue, as described in my other post.
I lay down aoe under my pet for this reason.1 -
the1andonlyskwex✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭the1andonlyskwex wrote: »markulrich1966 wrote: »
Don't forget that Crystal Blast's cast time was only 1 second long and the global cooldown prevents casting more than one spell per second anyway.
That's not how it worked. The cast time was the animation of waving your hand for roughly a second. Then you did the actual skill, the arced fragment throw for another second. It took two seconds in total until you could cast another skill again.
Yes, it had a travel time, but everything else you just said is wrong. You could absolutely use another skill as soon as the 1 second cast time ended. Trust me, I was actually using it, unlike you, who dismissed it as useless years ago.0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭the1andonlyskwex wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »markulrich1966 wrote: »
Don't forget that Crystal Blast's cast time was only 1 second long and the global cooldown prevents casting more than one spell per second anyway.
That's not how it worked. The cast time was the animation of waving your hand for roughly a second. Then you did the actual skill, the arced fragment throw for another second. It took two seconds in total until you could cast another skill again.
Yes, it had a travel time, but everything else you just said is wrong. You could absolutely use another skill as soon as the 1 second cast time ended. Trust me, I was actually using it, unlike you, who dismissed it as useless years ago.
Just think about it for a bit. If the cooldown started at the beginning of the 1-second-casttime, then you would be able to cast another skill when the casttime ended. Meaning you would have Blast and for example Ele Ring firing SIMULTANEOUSLY. Did it happen? Of course not. You can mix a light or heavy attack in, but not an ability.2 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
When I run up to a group of mobs, and I cast elemental ring in range before they move, it for some reason does not register me attacking them.Personally I have already adapted(the char is level 50 now), but this does not mean I do not want the magicka form to stay the same. It should incorporate the old blast(AOE/stun), instead of it just being outright removed.
At the moment I am using elemental ring, around my character. As this is somewhat aimable by where I am. All the other AOE's were useless as mobs ran out of them constantly.
Change is a constant in mmo's yes, but if it is regression, it is useless. Change should make something better. ZOS should have made the stamina morph like they did now, but they should have adjusted the magicka form as well.
PS: Anyone else have a bug with elemental ring, where the first cast near mobs does not hit them at all? This seems to happen to me 100% of the time.
Uh, I'm not sure what exactly you mean with the first cast. But I've noticed ground-targeted abilities often canceling for no reason this patch. Happens with my atro a lot.
This does sound like the issue I'm having. ZOS made a couple changes to server calculations this patch, I'm certain this causes the whiffed casts.1 -
the1andonlyskwex✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭the1andonlyskwex wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »markulrich1966 wrote: »
Don't forget that Crystal Blast's cast time was only 1 second long and the global cooldown prevents casting more than one spell per second anyway.
That's not how it worked. The cast time was the animation of waving your hand for roughly a second. Then you did the actual skill, the arced fragment throw for another second. It took two seconds in total until you could cast another skill again.
Yes, it had a travel time, but everything else you just said is wrong. You could absolutely use another skill as soon as the 1 second cast time ended. Trust me, I was actually using it, unlike you, who dismissed it as useless years ago.
Just think about it for a bit. If the cooldown started at the beginning of the 1-second-casttime, then you would be able to cast another skill when the casttime ended. Meaning you would have Blast and for example Ele Ring firing SIMULTANEOUSLY. Did it happen? Of course not. You can mix a light or heavy attack in, but not an ability.
Uh, blast leaves your hands at the 1 second mark, whatever you cast next has its own animation that delays it actually going off, even if it's nominally instant. Like all skills with travel time, you can do other things while blast is in the air.
You can't weave as fast with blast as you can with instant skills because there isn't time between casts to fit in a cancelled LA, but even that only results in about a 1.2 second interval, which isn't nearly enough to make up for the difference in per-cast damage between blast and something else.Edited by the1andonlyskwex on September 11, 2020 4:51PM0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭the1andonlyskwex wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »markulrich1966 wrote: »
Don't forget that Crystal Blast's cast time was only 1 second long and the global cooldown prevents casting more than one spell per second anyway.
That's not how it worked. The cast time was the animation of waving your hand for roughly a second. Then you did the actual skill, the arced fragment throw for another second. It took two seconds in total until you could cast another skill again.
Yes, it had a travel time, but everything else you just said is wrong. You could absolutely use another skill as soon as the 1 second cast time ended. Trust me, I was actually using it, unlike you, who dismissed it as useless years ago.
Just think about it for a bit. If the cooldown started at the beginning of the 1-second-casttime, then you would be able to cast another skill when the casttime ended. Meaning you would have Blast and for example Ele Ring firing SIMULTANEOUSLY. Did it happen? Of course not. You can mix a light or heavy attack in, but not an ability.
Uh, blast leaves your hands at the 1 second mark, whatever you cast next has its own animation that delays it actually going off, even if it's nominally instant. Like all skills with travel time, you can do other things while blast is in the air.
The throw animation still plays, and ability animations last as long as the global cooldown. If you could use an instant ability after the cast time, the throw and example Ele Ring would play at the same time. Like light attack + Crushing Shock do, for example. It doesn't work like that. If it would, stamina DDs would happily use Uppercut as their spammable.2 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭the1andonlyskwex wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »markulrich1966 wrote: »
Don't forget that Crystal Blast's cast time was only 1 second long and the global cooldown prevents casting more than one spell per second anyway.
That's not how it worked. The cast time was the animation of waving your hand for roughly a second. Then you did the actual skill, the arced fragment throw for another second. It took two seconds in total until you could cast another skill again.
Yes, it had a travel time, but everything else you just said is wrong. You could absolutely use another skill as soon as the 1 second cast time ended. Trust me, I was actually using it, unlike you, who dismissed it as useless years ago.
Just think about it for a bit. If the cooldown started at the beginning of the 1-second-casttime, then you would be able to cast another skill when the casttime ended. Meaning you would have Blast and for example Ele Ring firing SIMULTANEOUSLY. Did it happen? Of course not. You can mix a light or heavy attack in, but not an ability.
Uh, blast leaves your hands at the 1 second mark, whatever you cast next has its own animation that delays it actually going off, even if it's nominally instant. Like all skills with travel time, you can do other things while blast is in the air.
The throw animation still plays, and ability animations last as long as the global cooldown. If you could use an instant ability after the cast time, the throw and example Ele Ring would play at the same time. Like light attack + Crushing Shock do, for example. It doesn't work like that. If it would, stamina DDs would happily use Uppercut as their spammable.
Most stamina dds who use 2H use uppercut as their spammable in both PvP and PvE. You can instanly use another skill after the cast time of crystal blast was over. Same thing with mew crystal fragment, you can instanly use another skill after the cast time is over. The skill takes about 0.8 secs including the making and throw animation of the skill, it does not include the travel time however.0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭universal_wrath wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »markulrich1966 wrote: »
Don't forget that Crystal Blast's cast time was only 1 second long and the global cooldown prevents casting more than one spell per second anyway.
That's not how it worked. The cast time was the animation of waving your hand for roughly a second. Then you did the actual skill, the arced fragment throw for another second. It took two seconds in total until you could cast another skill again.
Yes, it had a travel time, but everything else you just said is wrong. You could absolutely use another skill as soon as the 1 second cast time ended. Trust me, I was actually using it, unlike you, who dismissed it as useless years ago.
Just think about it for a bit. If the cooldown started at the beginning of the 1-second-casttime, then you would be able to cast another skill when the casttime ended. Meaning you would have Blast and for example Ele Ring firing SIMULTANEOUSLY. Did it happen? Of course not. You can mix a light or heavy attack in, but not an ability.
Uh, blast leaves your hands at the 1 second mark, whatever you cast next has its own animation that delays it actually going off, even if it's nominally instant. Like all skills with travel time, you can do other things while blast is in the air.
The throw animation still plays, and ability animations last as long as the global cooldown. If you could use an instant ability after the cast time, the throw and example Ele Ring would play at the same time. Like light attack + Crushing Shock do, for example. It doesn't work like that. If it would, stamina DDs would happily use Uppercut as their spammable.
Most stamina dds who use 2H use uppercut as their spammable in both PvP and PvE. You can instanly use another skill after the cast time of crystal blast was over. Same thing with mew crystal fragment, you can instanly use another skill after the cast time is over. The skill takes about 0.8 secs including the making and throw animation of the skill, it does not include the travel time however.
Not talking about the travel time. You can use an instant ability after the cast time, but you cannot use it while the animation is playing. Which means
CB startup ----1sec---->Hit
Ele Ring Hit ----1sec---->Ele Ring Hit
So again, two ring hits per blast hit.2 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This thread is proof that play the way your want is a thing. Haha. This was one of the worst morphs and least use skills in the sorcs arsenal. It was a reasonable trade off to benefit stam sorcs if you ask me. Other than a very Niche gank build, this skills was pretty terrible when compared to the alternative. I play a LOT of sorc, and never felt like this was the better option compared to frags. I dont think I have ever seen it on a death recap in PVP.5 -
the1andonlyskwex✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭universal_wrath wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »markulrich1966 wrote: »
Don't forget that Crystal Blast's cast time was only 1 second long and the global cooldown prevents casting more than one spell per second anyway.
That's not how it worked. The cast time was the animation of waving your hand for roughly a second. Then you did the actual skill, the arced fragment throw for another second. It took two seconds in total until you could cast another skill again.
Yes, it had a travel time, but everything else you just said is wrong. You could absolutely use another skill as soon as the 1 second cast time ended. Trust me, I was actually using it, unlike you, who dismissed it as useless years ago.
Just think about it for a bit. If the cooldown started at the beginning of the 1-second-casttime, then you would be able to cast another skill when the casttime ended. Meaning you would have Blast and for example Ele Ring firing SIMULTANEOUSLY. Did it happen? Of course not. You can mix a light or heavy attack in, but not an ability.
Uh, blast leaves your hands at the 1 second mark, whatever you cast next has its own animation that delays it actually going off, even if it's nominally instant. Like all skills with travel time, you can do other things while blast is in the air.
The throw animation still plays, and ability animations last as long as the global cooldown. If you could use an instant ability after the cast time, the throw and example Ele Ring would play at the same time. Like light attack + Crushing Shock do, for example. It doesn't work like that. If it would, stamina DDs would happily use Uppercut as their spammable.
Most stamina dds who use 2H use uppercut as their spammable in both PvP and PvE. You can instanly use another skill after the cast time of crystal blast was over. Same thing with mew crystal fragment, you can instanly use another skill after the cast time is over. The skill takes about 0.8 secs including the making and throw animation of the skill, it does not include the travel time however.
Not talking about the travel time. You can use an instant ability after the cast time, but you cannot use it while the animation is playing. Which means
CB startup ----1sec---->Hit
Ele Ring Hit ----1sec---->Ele Ring Hit
So again, two ring hits per blast hit.
Dude. CB hits at the end of the GCD while Ele Ring hits near the beginning, but the time interval between casts is still 1 sec for both.
So for equal damage CB was:
1sec->hit->1sec->hit
And Ele Ring is:
hit->1sec->hit->1sec->hit->1sec->hit->1sec
In both cases the GCD is triggered when you press the button, not when the effect goes off.
This is also why Dizzying Swing and Executioner are such a potent combo in PvP. With the two of them you get:
0.8sec->DS->0.2sec->EX->1sec
which is a huge burst in a 0.2sec interval.0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭And when it hits, the throwing animation, it activates the cooldown. Because if it didn't, you could have Ele Ring and Blast going off at the same time.
Ah, I give up. Believe what you want, it's not my problem nor will it change anything.0 -
the1andonlyskwex✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭And when it hits, the throwing animation, it activates the cooldown. Because if it didn't, you could have Ele Ring and Blast going off at the same time.
Ah, I give up. Believe what you want, it's not my problem nor will it change anything.
Assuming Ele Ring behaves like other instant cast abilities, you could absolutely have them going off at the same time, but nobody running Crystal Blast would ever bother doing that because Ele Ring would have been redundant and inferior. Nobody ever uses two spammables because they crowd each other out of a rotation.
You could literally do:
1sec->CB->ER->1sec->1sec->CB->ER->1sec
but it would have required 4 GCDs to do the same damage you could have done with only one bar slot and 3 CB casts.Edited by the1andonlyskwex on September 12, 2020 12:35AM0 -
the1andonlyskwex✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This behavior is also why reducing the cast time and damage of hard casting Crystal Frags was seen as an attempt to make Crystal Frags more appealing as a spammable. When the cast time was 1 second you didn't have time to weave light attacks between casts, which resulted in lower single target DPS than other spammables. Now, you can put your light attacks in the 0.2 second pause between when the skill goes off and when you can start the next cast.
If it behaved the way you describe, nothing short of making it instant cast would ever make it even remotely appealing as a spammable because it would effectively make your GCD longer by whatever the cast time was.
That said, people who tried parsing on PTS mostly found that having only a 0.2 second window for their light attacks was fiddly enough that they got better results using another spammable anyway (because mistimed light attacks would either fail to fire or slow down their rotation slightly), but the difference in their results was nowhere near what it would have been if they had to wait 1.8 seconds between casts like you're suggesting.0 -
geschaftmaker✭✭✭Just out of the Bonesnap Ruins public dungeon with goblins and ogres, fantastic, I soloed them bosses easily, couldn't do that with CB spamming tactics due to duneon tightness, the main thing is you're always being healed due to Critical Surge and no heal pressing required, just do damage and you're all set, I have The Lover boon and Divines clothes, still *** by the way, being couple green-blue mother sorrow with green fire staff, some Vanus/Ysgramor stuff and couple of even non-set but still Divines parts (that was the purpose), but even with that i've been critting enough to rush into mobs and bosses: lightning for crowds, haunting/ endless fury for bosses and pew pew them all with staff and force pulse, hell that was cool, damage and heal, damage and heal. It is much more fun now, I definitely like it.
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oregonrob✭✭✭@Sarannah
All the other AOE's were useless as mobs ran out of them constantly.
Sounds like positioning might be the issue here.
Change is a constant in mmo's yes, but if it is regression, it is useless. Change should make something better.
I think we all agree change should be better. But better is subjective. What's good for the game as a whole or for a class as a whole might not be good for certain niche playstyles.
I don't think it's even about the validity of your playstyle. Something was seen as imbalanced, a decision was made based on data we don't have and the change has already happened. At this point other than a small group of people preferring the old crystal blast there is no compelling reason for ZOS to revert the change.
In terms of the niche class comment, me thinks you doth protest to much. For a long time there were complaints about crystal blast not because of it was weak, but it was believed it was too strong and it was a crutch for weak players. But there are other skills out there that are too strong such as most of the snare/immobilizing skills and that are being used as a crutch by weak players. Should we then go through and nerf every thing that is easy to use, popular, or have the perception of being imbalanced? There will not be much of a game left if that ends up happening.1 -
the1andonlyskwex✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭geschaftmaker wrote: »Just out of the Bonesnap Ruins public dungeon with goblins and ogres, fantastic, I soloed them bosses easily, couldn't do that with CB spamming tactics due to duneon tightness, the main thing is you're always being healed due to Critical Surge and no heal pressing required, just do damage and you're all set, I have The Lover boon and Divines clothes, still *** by the way, being couple green-blue mother sorrow with green fire staff, some Vanus/Ysgramor stuff and couple of even non-set but still Divines parts (that was the purpose), but even with that i've been critting enough to rush into mobs and bosses: lightning for crowds, haunting/ endless fury for bosses and pew pew them all with staff and force pulse, hell that was cool, damage and heal, damage and heal. It is much more fun now, I definitely like it.
I used to do all that with Crystal Blast in place of Force Pulse, and it was even better. I'm happy that the loss of Crystal Blast made you realize that your one-button approach to the game wasn't getting you anywhere, but the fact that it took losing Crystal Blast to make you come to that realization is is an indication that Crystal Blast was strong, not weak.0 -
geschaftmaker✭✭✭@the1andonlyskwex
Using CB with any other skill except those to finish someone with endless fury to replenishing mana or immediate healing was not efficient do to its long starting animation, so spamming had not be stopped. If you imply I'm stupid then yes in terms of skill in this game I am, but I don't care man, just keeping up to date. Strong weak whatever, it is gone and maybe those like me will start using their staves at least 0 -
the1andonlyskwex✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭geschaftmaker wrote: »@the1andonlyskwex
Using CB with any other skill except those to finish someone with endless fury to replenishing mana or immediate healing was not efficient do to its long starting animation, so spamming had not be stopped. If you imply I'm stupid then yes in terms of skill in this game I am, but I don't care man, just keeping up to date. Strong weak whatever, it is gone and maybe those like me will start using their staves at least
It didn't make you stop spamming anything. As long as you did all of your casts on 1-second intervals it worked fine. That said, I can see how some people might find rotations with cast time skills in them confusing, because you have to time everything relative to the start of the cast and not relative to the loud noises and flashing lights that happen when your spells go off.0 -
geschaftmaker✭✭✭@the1andonlyskwex
No it did. If you mixed it with any other skills you had to watch starting animation of preparing the charge again, and when you were constantly spamming it there was no such animation and the charges flew one after another. I know what is 1 sec and I can see the difference between drawing circles with hands (preparing the charge) and then firing compared to just firing one after another without any of that circle with hands (sending the charge off without preparing it) compared to that.
I was not timing anything when playing with CB, I was just repeatedly pressing the key to provide for non-stop spamming without that mentioned hand circles. It looks like you didn't know of such a possibility from what you say.Edited by geschaftmaker on September 12, 2020 7:55PM0 -
the1andonlyskwex✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭geschaftmaker wrote: »@the1andonlyskwex
No it did. If you mixed it with any other skills you had to watch starting animation of preparing the charge again, and when you were constantly spamming it there was no such animation and the charges flew one after another. I know what is 1 sec and I can see the difference between drawing circles with hands (preparing the charge) and then firing compared to just firing one after another without any of that circle with hands (sending the charge off without preparing it) compared to that.
I was not timing anything when playing with CB, I was just repeatedly pressing the key to provide for non-stop spamming without that mentioned hand circles. It looks like you didn't know of such a possibility from what you say.
You didn't have to time it too precisely because ESO lets you queue up your next ability a little early. Where people tend to go wrong is in waiting nearly a second after the cast time ends, because they think the GCD is triggered when the skill fires and don't even try to cast their next ability until much later than necessary.
I honestly can't remember how it behaved if you only cast one because I tended to cast 2-3 in a row right before a bar swap (which you could definitely do well before the animation completed). I'm about 80% sure you could cancel the end of the animation if it overran the 1 second cast time though. What I think happened if you spammed it was the game automatically cancelled the beginning of the next cast instead of the end of the previous one.
Either way, CB was doing way more AoE DPS in a rotation than something like Elemental Ring or any single-target ability (it could have a straight 2 second cast time and still do equivalent DPS to Elemental Ring, and it could probably have a 3 second cast time and still do better than Force Pulse in most fights against groups).0 -
geschaftmaker✭✭✭the1andonlyskwex wrote: »I honestly can't remember how it behaved if you only cast one because I tended to cast 2-3 in a row right before a bar swap (which you could definitely do well before the animation completed). I'm about 80% sure you could cancel the end of the animation if it overran the 1 second cast time though. What I think happened if you spammed it was the game automatically cancelled the beginning of the next cast instead of the end of the previous one.
You could cancel the start of next cast, precisely, and that's what I'm talking about from the very start here. But it happened only when spamming constantly, if switched to another spell or attack or heal or lag, any stop of casting whatever the reason and you had to watch that animation again, so that was the thing with that spell. Funny you can't even recall that while it is the core issue here, maybe that's why you protect it so much. If it was casted like ele ring by time and could be mixed with other spells without that issue it could be recommended for some solo rotations, maybe.the1andonlyskwex wrote: »it could have a straight 2 second cast time and still do equivalent DPS to Elemental Ring
And it was precisely 2 secs, the first cast of this. And any other first cast after interrupting spamming with any other skill. So each first cast = two elemental rings or elemental ring + light attack weaved + force pulse or 2 x (light attack weaved + force pulse), thus much more healing from Critical Surge due to more attacks (and single damage per time + those affected by elemental effect are also getting some 5k damage from force pulse sometime), no need in slot for Matriarch and pressing it and fat targets can be soloed much easier.
But still stun and ease of play overland by pressing one button mostly, here I agree.
Edited by geschaftmaker on September 12, 2020 9:31PM0