Werewolf nerf when?

grim_tactics

erio wrote: »

Theyre pretty much unkillable if built right. Its more annoying than anything, but its lowkey kinda stupid how a 1 bar easymode ulti can just stay in that form forever and do decent damage and be unkillable. Do they really need to be fast, have an unblockable stun and gap closers on one bar , at least let me get away lmao

I am not a fan of nerfs, and back when I posted a great deal, I was always for elevating other classes, not nerfing others down.

That being said, Werewolf is definitely over performing.

The fact they can almost stay in that form indefinitely, have very little issue with resources AND still deliver damage and heal. Top that with abilities that deal really good damage and why wouldnt you run Werewolf? I run it in IC all the time because its easy and hard to take down.

Again, not a huge fan of nerfing any class, but this ability needs to be looked at. There is no reason for it to be performing how it is now compared to how garbage Vampire is (between these two - its an easy pick as to which one is the better option.)

erio

Chrlynsch wrote: »

I think 98% of the werewolves in the game would prefer having a heal that scaled off of their primarydamage stats, so they could have great damage and great healing without having to invest in max mag, mag regen, and Max health.

erio wrote: »

Kilcosu wrote: »

I'm trying to gain some insight on this thread, OP are you on pc? or console?

I ask because your response to others trying to give you an In on how to dispatch werewolves does not seem to match up with your resolve of how difficult they are.

is this non cp ic or cp and what class are you running in ic

Pc Cp , I play Stamcro, and Stamblade (2h/bow not ganker).
No one is trying to give me an "in" and im 95% sure theres no secret way to magically kill a werewolf that i've been missing. They arent difficult to fight, theyre just unkillable. I dont die, they dont die if theyre halfway decent. Id like to state again that I can kill werewolfs, but if someone actually knows how to play one they can just fight like 5+ guys at once and not die.

Didn't you see that link I posted that's your silver bullet for werewolves.

Why would I use that lmao im stam, and the damage loss for that against any non ww would be huge. If im out there fighting a ww and literally anyone else shows up its going to be such a huge damage loss.
Im not going to, and most of the time cant, just swap my gear every time I see a werewolf.

Chrlynsch

erio wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

I think 98% of the werewolves in the game would prefer having a heal that scaled off of their primarydamage stats, so they could have great damage and great healing without having to invest in max mag, mag regen, and Max health.

erio wrote: »

Kilcosu wrote: »

I'm trying to gain some insight on this thread, OP are you on pc? or console?

I ask because your response to others trying to give you an In on how to dispatch werewolves does not seem to match up with your resolve of how difficult they are.

is this non cp ic or cp and what class are you running in ic

Pc Cp , I play Stamcro, and Stamblade (2h/bow not ganker).
No one is trying to give me an "in" and im 95% sure theres no secret way to magically kill a werewolf that i've been missing. They arent difficult to fight, theyre just unkillable. I dont die, they dont die if theyre halfway decent. Id like to state again that I can kill werewolfs, but if someone actually knows how to play one they can just fight like 5+ guys at once and not die.

Didn't you see that link I posted that's your silver bullet for werewolves.

Why would I use that lmao im stam, and the damage loss for that against any non ww would be huge. If im out there fighting a ww and literally anyone else shows up its going to be such a huge damage loss.
Im not going to, and most of the time cant, just swap my gear every time I see a werewolf.

You asked for a magic way to kill werewolves, I gave you one.

If you think bursting a werewolf down is how you kill one, you are mistaken. Their damage mitigation and burst heal sort that out. Sustained damage is how you kill a werewolf. Attack their Magicka Pool, not their health pool.

erio

Chrlynsch wrote: »

erio wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

I think 98% of the werewolves in the game would prefer having a heal that scaled off of their primarydamage stats, so they could have great damage and great healing without having to invest in max mag, mag regen, and Max health.

erio wrote: »

Kilcosu wrote: »

I'm trying to gain some insight on this thread, OP are you on pc? or console?

I ask because your response to others trying to give you an In on how to dispatch werewolves does not seem to match up with your resolve of how difficult they are.

is this non cp ic or cp and what class are you running in ic

Pc Cp , I play Stamcro, and Stamblade (2h/bow not ganker).
No one is trying to give me an "in" and im 95% sure theres no secret way to magically kill a werewolf that i've been missing. They arent difficult to fight, theyre just unkillable. I dont die, they dont die if theyre halfway decent. Id like to state again that I can kill werewolfs, but if someone actually knows how to play one they can just fight like 5+ guys at once and not die.

Didn't you see that link I posted that's your silver bullet for werewolves.

Why would I use that lmao im stam, and the damage loss for that against any non ww would be huge. If im out there fighting a ww and literally anyone else shows up its going to be such a huge damage loss.
Im not going to, and most of the time cant, just swap my gear every time I see a werewolf.

You asked for a magic way to kill werewolves, I gave you one.

If you think bursting a werewolf down is how you kill one, you are mistaken. Their damage mitigation and burst heal sort that out. Sustained damage is how you kill a werewolf. Attack their Magicka Pool, not their health pool.

Dude I dont even play a bursty build. Im using eternal vigor and briarheart lmao. Never said i wanted to burst them down... Thanks for the advice I guess.

ZOS_GregoryV

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silver1surfer69

I know its an older threat but theres def an urgent need for a ww adjust by zeni now. As most of u have seen already there are ww builds with huge amounts of magika which completely breaks the game. The heal amount is ridicuolus. There are builds out there with 20k magika that means the guy can heal like 40k in 4 sec (in pvp!) - run away and wait till mag/stam is regenerated and still can kill most players with heavy attack. As threat creater already said, all that combined with speed is game breaking.

relentless_turnip

I have said this in so many threads at this point 😂

We shouldn't make any class or werewolf changes until proc sets are changed and in the case of werewolf they need to put a resistance cap on alessian. This is what allows them to stack 6k health recovery. Often this is coupled with crimson which boosts their survivability too a ridiculous level.

Proc sets currently allow players to put all their attributes into health without any impact on their offensive potential because proc sets out perform skills. In turn heals that scale with health over perform.

If proc sets were to scale with offensive stats this would not be possible anymore. If alessian had a resistance cap werewolf also wouldn't be as hard to kill.

Markarth adjusted most major buffs and we don't know the pact of this yet, because we have been playing meta that predominantly isn't reliant on stats. We need to play a patch without proc sets imo to see where class balance actually sits.

ivramirez

Someone in ESO decided to brake the game with WW and proc sets... stamina players running zaan, magicka players running stamina proc sets. Where is this game going? we dont know but for the moment there are no rules in this game.

Eejit1331

Chrlynsch wrote: »

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

erio wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Overland pvp wolves, BG wolves, Pve wolves should all be nerfed because IP is powerful on werewolves in IC?

Theres literally no difference pvp wise except cp. Yes. No one even uses werewolfs in pve so who cares.

please dont twist my words too

You said "I dont really see them in cyro. More of an IC thing" the only place you have trouble with them in is IC, the difference between IC and the rest of pvp world is 2 things.

1. Availability of corpes, allows werewolf to stay in form longer, without risk of dropping out of form.

2. Availability of Imperial Physique which scales better on werewolf than any other build in the game. Due to the slowness of IC most encounters are usually 1v1 or small group outside of events, this is where werewolf thrives.

So again the only place you have issues with werewolf is in IC. Your words, why do Pve werewolves, PvP open world Werewolves, and BG werewolves need to suffer nerfs?

What changes would you like to see? How would you like them changed? What makes them unbalanced, when they are the only thing in the game that requires you to actually balance your build in order to have success. And Allll of boons that werewolf gets they have banes already. Let me elaborate.

Extra Armor -> Poison and Fighter's guild weakness
Extra Speed -> No way to remove snares
Extra Regen/Heavy Stamina restore boost -> Expensive Abilies

If a Werewolf wants to do damage they invest into Stamina or Weapon damage. Doing so exclusively makes them into a glass cannon with very weak healing and survival due lack of sustain.

Remember every build in the game can gain survivability when boosting their main stats, they have no trade offs they need to make as increasing damage also increases survivability.

But remember werewolf's heal comes from their max health and costs over 5k magicka to use. Now a wolf needs to boost their health pool to make their heal do more than 6k per pop (fortitude), really it is that weak in no CP, the heal/resource cost is one of the worst ratios in the game. Adding health will increase their heal but decrease their damage. But now if they want to heal more than 3 times before going OOM they again have to sacrifice more damage in return for Magicka recovery.

So what is a werewolf left with after all of this? Mildly tanky with moderate damage, and little to no group utility or kiting ability. And outside of werewolf form is left with a strange hybrid build.

They also get :
increased stamina making stamina sustain easier which allows to build some mag sustain.
Increased resistance so building mitigation is easier than ever making adding hp easy to do.

Outside of ww firm isn't a problem. You can be in it nearly infinitely.

Werewolf abilies are designed to do 25% more damage to comparable abilities while being 25% more expense. If a werewolf backs away from damage stats by adding HP and regen they then become as deadly and as survivable as a human build... If that isn't balance I don't know what is.

If you have issues with werewolf start using the many counters available to take care of them and put them down.

If you are looking for inspiration... Torg's Pact, Infused, Prismatic Glyph. Go have fun nudering werewolves.

http://imgur.com/a/wUkjUN6

Encourage build diversity, think critically and be a problem solver.

I tested this recently with Turog's Pact and the Prismatic enchant and it does not proc on Werewolves. From reading the description of the prismatic enchant this does not seem to be in error.

TheBonesXXX

This another thread where you all infer to the power disparity but not actually talk about it.

Also I don't think "nerfing WW" because you think its a crappy way to play is a good way to go about balancing the game, this looks more like you want to stomp out a playstyle because its antithetical to what you consider good PvP rather than actually checking the health of the game.

Kinda like back in the day where WWs were a Dawnbreaker away from dead and Dawnbreaker as an ulti got out of hand.

oXI_Viper_IXo

It's funny to see all these people defending their WW crutch so hard.

jUsT uSe pOiSoNs... 😄

Xiomaro

erio wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Overland pvp wolves, BG wolves, Pve wolves should all be nerfed because IP is powerful on werewolves in IC?

No one even uses werewolfs in pve so who cares.

Cries in Tormentor set

ccfeeling

Set 10 mins hard reset, done.

24 hours WW is too OP.

WW player just need a little break, no abilities nerf.

Tommy_The_Gun

WW in itself is not a problem imho.

It is gear sets (dmg proc sets in particular). Simply put, dmg proc sets on a very tanky spec (all points into health & resistance) will still enable you to deal a lot of damage, despite being a "Brick - build".

It is not only WW issue, and you can see it on Warden, Necro or DK, Templar (any class) tanky builds.

The other thing that is a huge factor is group play (group environment). The more ppl in a group, the easier it is. (Multiplicity in the worst enemy of the balance). If you have a dedicated healer / support (or 2 or 3) you simple don't have to worry about healing, sustain, negative effect removal, CC immunity... those problems are gone.
You can build for full tank with 2 or 3 proc sets + brutality ring. And since you are in a group, 2 or 3 other ppl can do that too and as a result you still can dish out insane amount of dmg that will make ppl melt.

There are 3 things that ZOS imho should do:

1. Make dmg proc sets to scale with max offensive stat (stamina, magicka, weapon / spell damage).
- It will result in a significantly less tanky builds since proc set will do close to "0" dmg if you place all your points in to health.

2. Make healing proc sets to scale with health.
- Yep, health. Because now you will have a different problem. If I place all my points into stamina or magicka, now dmg proc sets are fine (And I am a glass canon), but healing sets are weak. So I can not make a one-sided build. I have to make some compromises.
- Problem is that there is a huge risk that ppl will switch from tanky build with dmg proc sets into a less tanky build with healing sets.

3. ZOS should add some "global" way to balance "group environment".
- The problem I mentioned above is basically - the more ppl in group, the easier it is, and ppl imho kinda abuse the fact that there is no drawback. ZOS tired to force ppl not to cluster and not run as a "one" pile of ppl, but every time they did that, the result was always opposite - groups were getting stronger & stronger.
- Same as we have a "Battle Spirit" buff/de-buff in PvP, I think that ZOS should do something similar, but for groups. Some kind of global buff/de-buff, that will be active only in a group and will scale with group size. So if the group is small it wont be noticeable, but bigger it gets - buff/de-buff also gets bigger.
- Now idk what it could be. Maybe something that will affect skill cost. Or something that will affect healing idk. But the problem of ball groups in cyro, or unkillable groups in IC etc. will persist till they do something like that.

TheBonesXXX

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

WW in itself is not a problem imho.

It is gear sets (dmg proc sets in particular). Simply put, dmg proc sets on a very tanky spec (all points into health & resistance) will still enable you to deal a lot of damage, despite being a "Brick - build".

It is not only WW issue, and you can see it on Warden, Necro or DK, Templar (any class) tanky builds.

The other thing that is a huge factor is group play (group environment). The more ppl in a group, the easier it is. (Multiplicity in the worst enemy of the balance). If you have a dedicated healer / support (or 2 or 3) you simple don't have to worry about healing, sustain, negative effect removal, CC immunity... those problems are gone.
You can build for full tank with 2 or 3 proc sets + brutality ring. And since you are in a group, 2 or 3 other ppl can do that too and as a result you still can dish out insane amount of dmg that will make ppl melt.

There are 3 things that ZOS imho should do:

1. Make dmg proc sets to scale with max offensive stat (stamina, magicka, weapon / spell damage).
- It will result in a significantly less tanky builds since proc set will do close to "0" dmg if you place all your points in to health.

2. Make healing proc sets to scale with health.
- Yep, health. Because now you will have a different problem. If I place all my points into stamina or magicka, now dmg proc sets are fine (And I am a glass canon), but healing sets are weak. So I can not make a one-sided build. I have to make some compromises.
- Problem is that there is a huge risk that ppl will switch from tanky build with dmg proc sets into a less tanky build with healing sets.

3. ZOS should add some "global" way to balance "group environment".
- The problem I mentioned above is basically - the more ppl in group, the easier it is, and ppl imho kinda abuse the fact that there is no drawback. ZOS tired to force ppl not to cluster and not run as a "one" pile of ppl, but every time they did that, the result was always opposite - groups were getting stronger & stronger.
- Same as we have a "Battle Spirit" buff/de-buff in PvP, I think that ZOS should do something similar, but for groups. Some kind of global buff/de-buff, that will be active only in a group and will scale with group size. So if the group is small it wont be noticeable, but bigger it gets - buff/de-buff also gets bigger.
- Now idk what it could be. Maybe something that will affect skill cost. Or something that will affect healing idk. But the problem of ball groups in cyro, or unkillable groups in IC etc. will persist till they do something like that.

After they nerf proc sets to the ground again right? Because who in their right mind wants to deal with free damage when it takes minimal effort.

Or they could just simply stop making proc sets.