The real problem in ESO PvP

Xargas13

I probably gonna be flamed with L2P and other stuff by this, but I like the game enough to take the hit. The real problem of ESO PvP are the so called "combos" the set of pressing specified abilities fast in a particular order, that allow to bypass GCD. And don't tell me it's impossible, when the same player does it to you again and again while others don't seem to have that effect, you can't really blame desync or lag. The result of this, is multiple abilities shown in recount while you saw like one animation from the player. ESO is fun when it's working, and in this instance it's not fun, it's really off putting, I could learn doing that, I'm sure there are some topics around on the internet, but I don't find that kind of gameplay engaging, I play PvP for challenge, not to roll my face on the keyboard and win. Just wanted to bring attention of devs to this, since there aren't really topics about this, which means people like this "feature", don't know why don't care, sometimes I *** against the wind

Beardimus

I'm 50/50 on this.

I used to think I was rubbish because of this, then as I got better and understood more I was left thinking folks must cheat. As in some stuff is not possible.

However we do also see alot of weird stuff / lag and it's hard to trust the game. Snipe biggest example, dead then see 5 concurrent Snipes or even better run in a keep then heard the noise 5 secs later lol

It's true you encounter folks sometimes that seem to consistently do it however.

I'm torn, like to believe on console cheating is rare and it's a conspiracy theory, could be lag, but could be nefarious so and sos

Alienoutlaw

make sure to play during the up coming AOE testing you will find those "combo's" will be a lot less prevalent

Defilted

You can't skip GCD.

Sanctum74

Stop spreading misinformation, combos, weaving, or animation canceling can NOT bypass the global cooldown.

Xargas13

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Stop spreading misinformation, combos, weaving, or animation canceling can NOT bypass the global cooldown.

Then please do explain the example I provided above. It's okay if that happens now and then, you can blame lag or whatever, but when the same person does the same trick over and over again, it makes you question... By the way, I almost never lag, despite what people say on the forums about lag issues...

Sanctum74

Without knowing what combo you are talking about its hard to say. Some classes have delayed burst abilities so multiple skills in a gcd is normal.

In most cases though its just a lag desync. This happens with abilities, seige, damage, and character location. When this happens everything hits at once or you see people teleporting around the battlefield.

If you’ve played the game from the beginning you would know it wasn’t always like this, but they’ve ignored the performance problems for so long thats it’s become much more common.

raasdal

Xargas13 wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Stop spreading misinformation, combos, weaving, or animation canceling can NOT bypass the global cooldown.

Then please do explain the example I provided above. It's okay if that happens now and then, you can blame lag or whatever, but when the same person does the same trick over and over again, it makes you question... By the way, I almost never lag, despite what people say on the forums about lag issues...

Unfortunately the answer will probably be, that you are not experienced enough to understand what is going on. Not saying it to troll or be mean. But it's probably where "it" is at.

An example of something you could experience: Sub + Dizzy + Heavy Attack + Executioner - 3 skills and 1 heavy attack landing all at once. That is because one is delayed, the next has a cast time, and the final one is instant cast.

Using such combos makes it possible to hit an opponent with 3, 4 or even 5 skills AT THE SAME TIME, but without ever breaking the GCD.

I think these combos are the ones you are having a problem with. Thats fine - everyone can have an opinion. I however feel this is what sets a skill differential in the game, separating the good from the bad. But really - you cannot avoid the GCD.

The final thing is: NEVER trust the Death Recap. It is simply NOT accurate. The Death Recap DOES NOT display the skills that actually hit you all the time. It can show skills, that hit you 4 seconds before dying, while ignoring a skill that hit you 1 second before death. It depends on the how much damage the skill did, and some other stuff probably.1

FriedEggSandwich

Another example of delayed burst: sorc does LA -> curse then LA-> wrath, then charge up a heavy attack and cancel it with the frags that procs from curse or wrath. The heavy attack and the frag with hit you as the curse goes off, potentially taking you below 20% HP where the wrath proc will explode, and you're dead if you didn't take any evasive action.

VaranisArano

Xargas13 wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Stop spreading misinformation, combos, weaving, or animation canceling can NOT bypass the global cooldown.

Then please do explain the example I provided above. It's okay if that happens now and then, you can blame lag or whatever, but when the same person does the same trick over and over again, it makes you question... By the way, I almost never lag, despite what people say on the forums about lag issues...

I don't see an example in your OP. Am I missing something?

Vizirith

Use the addon "Recount", it will give you a breakdown of exactly what happened and the time to the millisecond. Even though the game might lag, it will show that the abilities happened within a normal span of time.

As an aside, are you sure that they are not sets/abilities that proc on another ability? Crushing/elemental weapon will land at about the same time as a light or heavy attack. Some sets proc on either damage done or taken will show up at the same time.

Ex. Venemous Smite (Dealing Critical Damage inflicts Hunter's Venom on your enemy for 10 seconds, dealing 2241 Poison Damage to your target and enemies within 6 meters of them every 1 second. This effect can occur once every 15 seconds), the Hunters Venom proc may happen at the same time as the actually critical ability.

Crow_IX

so there is one of two things here. first there are no gcd, yet. meaning you're probably witnessing animation canceling, which is the skill gap in pvp. secondly you also could be witnessing desync like you claimed its not but let me explain why it could be. first hand experience in a bg the performance was awful, i was swinging duds and abilities would come out 2-3 seconds late, but for some reason, mid fight i hit a la into my spamable and then my ult, but got stunned. while i was trapped in petrify or whatchya call it, all my abilities came out and counter stunned the dk for me. i was definitely in shock but at the same time it was kind of like a joke of performance. any how, i think you have the wrong idea about what you are witnessing.

with that said i'd like to tell you that if it is animation canceling which i'm almost 100% it is, that is the mechanical skillgap in the game. players learn timing on animation canceling and incorporate it into their gameplay and on top of that ani canceling does come with the drawback of costing more resources as you're blocking or bashing in a fight. although i think it is safe to say ani canceling will soon be removed all together as zos continues to work towards closing the skillgap

Gilvoth

Xargas13 wrote: »

I probably gonna be flamed with L2P and other stuff by this, but I like the game enough to take the hit. The real problem of ESO PvP are the so called "combos" the set of pressing specified abilities fast in a particular order, that allow to bypass GCD. And don't tell me it's impossible, when the same player does it to you again and again while others don't seem to have that effect, you can't really blame desync or lag. The result of this, is multiple abilities shown in recount while you saw like one animation from the player. ESO is fun when it's working, and in this instance it's not fun, it's really off putting, I could learn doing that, I'm sure there are some topics around on the internet, but I don't find that kind of gameplay engaging, I play PvP for challenge, not to roll my face on the keyboard and win. Just wanted to bring attention of devs to this, since there aren't really topics about this, which means people like this "feature", don't know why don't care, sometimes I *** against the wind

you are correct, this is a problem in pvp and pve, and yes it is happening.
please remember that those who are doing this will allways fight against you and i and all those whom report this and talk about it and try to say it is not happening.
as far as i know, zenimax does not say anything about it.
it has been happening for a long time and reported and video proof made as well as screen shots proving the global cooldowns ignored.
all we can do is report it like you have done here. maybe one day it will gain attention and be fixed.

Xargas13

As I see it, most people don't even realize they proved my point. The delayed abilities are probably delayed because they are too powerful (my knowledge limited to one class) so if you are able to pull of multiple abilities at the same time, I see it as a problem, I wouldn't call it skill, because the player has little to no chances when that combo is spammed, skill is when you outplay your opponent, not kill him with two hits which he can't possibly counter. Imagine famed WoW, a player with gear that he hit max level with, and the guy with gear that he farmed through arenas, the player that hit max level could play better, but he simply doesn't stand a chance against that seasoned arena player, because he will die in those two hits before he could do anything.... Not trying to speak against gear progression, just trying to illustrate what it means to continue to allow those combos.

Idinuse

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Stop spreading misinformation, combos, weaving, or animation canceling can NOT bypass the global cooldown.

And you can not fly and equip Dungeon Boss skills, right?

coletas

Xargas13 wrote: »

As I see it, most people don't even realize they proved my point. The delayed abilities are probably delayed because they are too powerful (my knowledge limited to one class) so if you are able to pull of multiple abilities at the same time, I see it as a problem, I wouldn't call it skill, because the player has little to no chances when that combo is spammed, skill is when you outplay your opponent, not kill him with two hits which he can't possibly counter. Imagine famed WoW, a player with gear that he hit max level with, and the guy with gear that he farmed through arenas, the player that hit max level could play better, but he simply doesn't stand a chance against that seasoned arena player, because he will die in those two hits before he could do anything.... Not trying to speak against gear progression, just trying to illustrate what it means to continue to allow those combos.

[snip] When you master all that and know what are u doing in combat, you will like much more. Its difficult? yes. Takes many time to get used to keep an eye on the opponent next moves all the time but thats is what Will make you to win while getting fun and no gold superdupper sets.

would be more fun to all have some skills with some damage and then, what... firing them and see who dies faster? that is what you want, like in all other games?

Damn, the only nice thing that has this Game, pvp combat, and you want to change It to the le level of overland Maps lol

about gcd... no. It cant be bypassed while casting, but can be exploited to make It looks at is was (like in snipe desynch)

[Edited to remove Baiting]

Xargas13

coletas wrote: »

Xargas13 wrote: »

As I see it, most people don't even realize they proved my point. The delayed abilities are probably delayed because they are too powerful (my knowledge limited to one class) so if you are able to pull of multiple abilities at the same time, I see it as a problem, I wouldn't call it skill, because the player has little to no chances when that combo is spammed, skill is when you outplay your opponent, not kill him with two hits which he can't possibly counter. Imagine famed WoW, a player with gear that he hit max level with, and the guy with gear that he farmed through arenas, the player that hit max level could play better, but he simply doesn't stand a chance against that seasoned arena player, because he will die in those two hits before he could do anything.... Not trying to speak against gear progression, just trying to illustrate what it means to continue to allow those combos.

dont take as an offense but if you cant counter a subt assault, a dark flare, a Snipe (without desynch), etc etc maybe you should keep learning to play. When you master all that and know what are u doing in combat, you will like much more. Its difficult? yes. Takes many time to get used to keep an eye on the opponent next moves all the time but thats is what Will make you to win while getting fun and no gold superdupper sets.

would be more fun to all have some skills with some damage and then, what... firing them and see who dies faster? that is what you want, like in all other games?

Damn, the only nice thing that has this Game, pvp combat, and you want to change It to the le level of overland Maps lol

about gcd... no. It cant be bypassed while casting, but can be exploited to make It looks at is was (like in snipe desynch)

I didn't mention anything specific, but when you die in two seconds by a cheesy combo there isn't much learning can be done.... Shields going down in a second, damage reduction abilities obsolete etc.

FirmamentOfStars

Xargas13 wrote: »

coletas wrote: »

Xargas13 wrote: »

As I see it, most people don't even realize they proved my point. The delayed abilities are probably delayed because they are too powerful (my knowledge limited to one class) so if you are able to pull of multiple abilities at the same time, I see it as a problem, I wouldn't call it skill, because the player has little to no chances when that combo is spammed, skill is when you outplay your opponent, not kill him with two hits which he can't possibly counter. Imagine famed WoW, a player with gear that he hit max level with, and the guy with gear that he farmed through arenas, the player that hit max level could play better, but he simply doesn't stand a chance against that seasoned arena player, because he will die in those two hits before he could do anything.... Not trying to speak against gear progression, just trying to illustrate what it means to continue to allow those combos.

dont take as an offense but if you cant counter a subt assault, a dark flare, a Snipe (without desynch), etc etc maybe you should keep learning to play. When you master all that and know what are u doing in combat, you will like much more. Its difficult? yes. Takes many time to get used to keep an eye on the opponent next moves all the time but thats is what Will make you to win while getting fun and no gold superdupper sets.

would be more fun to all have some skills with some damage and then, what... firing them and see who dies faster? that is what you want, like in all other games?

Damn, the only nice thing that has this Game, pvp combat, and you want to change It to the le level of overland Maps lol

about gcd... no. It cant be bypassed while casting, but can be exploited to make It looks at is was (like in snipe desynch)

I didn't mention anything specific, but when you die in two seconds by a cheesy combo there isn't much learning can be done.... Shields going down in a second, damage reduction abilities obsolete etc.

Well all these combos can be predicted very easely:
A stamden activates shalks, so in 3 seconds he will try to one shot you with a dizzy, medium attack plus dawnbreaker.
A stamcro activates blastbones: he will try to hit you with dizzy and land a stun or dawnbreaker the same moment blastbones explode.
A sorc curses you: in 3 seconds he will shot his c-frag and probably streak through you right before.

Those are the most common combos and and example 1 and 2 are very easy to survive if you block at the right moment (doesnt cost that much stamina, if you block that). With one right mouse click you countered his whole combo. For the sorcerer combo its a bit more diffict, since the damage comes with an unblockable stun. So you have to prepare: cleanse the curse, apply shields or hots right before the combo hits you, block and break free asap, so maybe you still block one of the hits.

As easy as those players can almost one-shot you, as easy it is to avoid it. Combos are very predictable and with experience you will learn how and when to counter them.

Firstmep

Well on my current ranged Templar build I can time to have: ele weapon, javelin, light attack, shock glyph and calurion proc withing the same 1 sec gcd, and ofc there are other examples for that.
While there aren't any mechanics that allow you to actually cast more than 1 skill a second( no matter what all the but mah macros, naysayers day), you can come up with smart combos that allow you to stack a lot of dmg in a very short amount of time.
On my new bow sorc I can stack crushing weapon, crystal weapon, magnum shot light attack and dmg glyph to hit at the same time, but ofc it takes some setting up to do.

I should also add thay Beacuse of how healing in this game works, you kinda have to play around combos like this, if you want to kill competent players.
Ofc in no cp its a bit different with dot proc sets providing a lot of pressure, but you typically still want to use some skills otherwise all that pressure can go wasted.

Gaggin

I think from your language and attitude its quite clear you dont want to learn how to counter these combos and instead want blame ppl using synergetic skill combos. People arent bypassing their gcds, you simply arent learning to use yours.

Sanctum74

Idinuse wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Stop spreading misinformation, combos, weaving, or animation canceling can NOT bypass the global cooldown.

And you can not fly and equip Dungeon Boss skills, right?

2 cheat videos in 5 years doesn’t mean everyone that kills you is cheating.

HowlKimchi

Animation cancelling is where the depth of ESO combat is, and it separates the noobs and the good players. Both in PVE and PVP. It looks terrible though, like your character is spasming. Also, as many have mentioned, the GCD cannot be bypassed. Light attacks do not adhere with the GCD though and there are a lot of delayed burst skills in the game so that's what you might be experiencing.

The real problem in ESO pvp is lag and input delay.

coletas

Xargas13 wrote: »

coletas wrote: »

Xargas13 wrote: »

As I see it, most people don't even realize they proved my point. The delayed abilities are probably delayed because they are too powerful (my knowledge limited to one class) so if you are able to pull of multiple abilities at the same time, I see it as a problem, I wouldn't call it skill, because the player has little to no chances when that combo is spammed, skill is when you outplay your opponent, not kill him with two hits which he can't possibly counter. Imagine famed WoW, a player with gear that he hit max level with, and the guy with gear that he farmed through arenas, the player that hit max level could play better, but he simply doesn't stand a chance against that seasoned arena player, because he will die in those two hits before he could do anything.... Not trying to speak against gear progression, just trying to illustrate what it means to continue to allow those combos.

dont take as an offense but if you cant counter a subt assault, a dark flare, a Snipe (without desynch), etc etc maybe you should keep learning to play. When you master all that and know what are u doing in combat, you will like much more. Its difficult? yes. Takes many time to get used to keep an eye on the opponent next moves all the time but thats is what Will make you to win while getting fun and no gold superdupper sets.

would be more fun to all have some skills with some damage and then, what... firing them and see who dies faster? that is what you want, like in all other games?

Damn, the only nice thing that has this Game, pvp combat, and you want to change It to the le level of overland Maps lol

about gcd... no. It cant be bypassed while casting, but can be exploited to make It looks at is was (like in snipe desynch)

I didn't mention anything specific, but when you die in two seconds by a cheesy combo there isn't much learning can be done.... Shields going down in a second, damage reduction abilities obsolete etc.

if you die in 2 seconds with a cheesy combo you prepared bad before second 1 (enough resistances? enough impen? ur hands in keyboard and mouse?) and u didnt care to see after second 1. Then yes... u are going to die no matter what gcds changes, or sets, or level, or cps you have. Teso pvp is fast, but nearly everything can be counter . U only need to be fast and observative to survive (not a random button presser) and skilled to kill. That 3 characteristics would be enough when u play enough... and its obvious you didnt, and just want to change a superb combat system. Is ok, with lag, nothing works. I dont play anymore because of lag. But without lag, this game in PvP really rocks.

what clases and equipment are u using? we can maybe help with that. With being fast and observative we cant help much hehe

dsalter

coletas wrote: »

if you die in 2 seconds with a cheesy combo you prepared bad before second 1 (enough resistances? enough impen? ur hands in keyboard and mouse?) and u didnt care to see after second 1. Then yes... u are going to die no matter what gcds changes, or sets, or level, or cps you have. Teso pvp is fast, but nearly everything can be counter . U only need to be fast and observative to survive (not a random button presser) and skilled to kill. That 3 characteristics would be enough when u play enough... and its obvious you didnt, and just want to change a ----> superb combat system.<---- Is ok, with lag, nothing works. I dont play anymore because of lag. But without lag, this game in PvP really rocks.

what clases and equipment are u using? we can maybe help with that. With being fast and observative we cant help much hehe

found the line that shows you dont know much about what your talking about and are likely one of those abusing said cheese.
the guy complained about a legitimate issue of where people can delete you in less than 2 seconds from stealth and unless your psychic or a 50k+ hp tank, you aint walking away.

Arca94

Seriously, please, people don't cheat in this game (I've only encountered it twice when playing in over 4 years of consistent play). You can't bypass the global cooldown system, if you are dying instantly the only explanation I can give you is the snipe (or other ability) desync bug which is why so many people want it fixed. If it's not that, then I suggest downloading a more accurate combat log addon and learning from what is killing you.

Xargas13 wrote: »

The delayed abilities are probably delayed because they are too powerful (my knowledge limited to one class).

Delayed abilities are a core part of PvP and offer a decent burst window to earn kills. They are not limited to one class, off the top of my head: Sub Assault/Deep Fissure (Warden), Haunting Curse (Sorc), Blastbones (Necro), PotL/PL (Templar), you could even argue FoO or Inhale (DK) can be used as delayed burst. As they are delayed, they are easily noticed when a player starts up the combo, that is your trigger to react to it. Not after every skill has fired and you're already dead/in execute range.

Mixing up your delayed burst is one of the only ways to actually earn kills on decent players in this game and creates a rewarding skill based system for the combat. Without that, you only have the other way of fighting people - pressure with DoTs.

This is generally a less rewarding playstyle as it usually only requires you to cast a few abilities without any thought into how to time them together in a combo. It's one of the reasons people have been expressing their unhappiness at ZOS buffing a load of DoT proc sets this patch - because they encourage a less engaging and less skillful environment.

LeifErickson

Can you please give an example of what is killing you instantly? No one can bypass the global cooldown. Unless you are specifically talking about snipe or maybe macro slicing (which seems to have come back with the most recent update), you are doing something wrong and we can help you fix it if you give us more details.

Muzza45

SavageChain wrote: »

Xargas13 wrote: »

coletas wrote: »

Xargas13 wrote: »

As I see it, most people don't even realize they proved my point. The delayed abilities are probably delayed because they are too powerful (my knowledge limited to one class) so if you are able to pull of multiple abilities at the same time, I see it as a problem, I wouldn't call it skill, because the player has little to no chances when that combo is spammed, skill is when you outplay your opponent, not kill him with two hits which he can't possibly counter. Imagine famed WoW, a player with gear that he hit max level with, and the guy with gear that he farmed through arenas, the player that hit max level could play better, but he simply doesn't stand a chance against that seasoned arena player, because he will die in those two hits before he could do anything.... Not trying to speak against gear progression, just trying to illustrate what it means to continue to allow those combos.

[snip] When you master all that and know what are u doing in combat, you will like much more. Its difficult? yes. Takes many time to get used to keep an eye on the opponent next moves all the time but thats is what Will make you to win while getting fun and no gold superdupper sets.

would be more fun to all have some skills with some damage and then, what... firing them and see who dies faster? that is what you want, like in all other games?

Damn, the only nice thing that has this Game, pvp combat, and you want to change It to the le level of overland Maps lol

about gcd... no. It cant be bypassed while casting, but can be exploited to make It looks at is was (like in snipe desynch)

I didn't mention anything specific, but when you die in two seconds by a cheesy combo there isn't much learning can be done.... Shields going down in a second, damage reduction abilities obsolete etc.

Well all these combos can be predicted very easely:
A stamden activates shalks, so in 3 seconds he will try to one shot you with a dizzy, medium attack plus dawnbreaker.
A stamcro activates blastbones: he will try to hit you with dizzy and land a stun or dawnbreaker the same moment blastbones explode.
A sorc curses you: in 3 seconds he will shot his c-frag and probably streak through you right before.

Those are the most common combos and and example 1 and 2 are very easy to survive if you block at the right moment (doesnt cost that much stamina, if you block that). With one right mouse click you countered his whole combo. For the sorcerer combo its a bit more diffict, since the damage comes with an unblockable stun. So you have to prepare: cleanse the curse, apply shields or hots right before the combo hits you, block and break free asap, so maybe you still block one of the hits.

As easy as those players can almost one-shot you, as easy it is to avoid it. Combos are very predictable and with experience you will learn how and when to counter them.

....and VERY often these common combos are programmed nicely into a single keypress.... not saying YOU do it, but a large amount are.

Sanctum74

Muzza45 wrote: »

SavageChain wrote: »

Xargas13 wrote: »

coletas wrote: »

Xargas13 wrote: »

As I see it, most people don't even realize they proved my point. The delayed abilities are probably delayed because they are too powerful (my knowledge limited to one class) so if you are able to pull of multiple abilities at the same time, I see it as a problem, I wouldn't call it skill, because the player has little to no chances when that combo is spammed, skill is when you outplay your opponent, not kill him with two hits which he can't possibly counter. Imagine famed WoW, a player with gear that he hit max level with, and the guy with gear that he farmed through arenas, the player that hit max level could play better, but he simply doesn't stand a chance against that seasoned arena player, because he will die in those two hits before he could do anything.... Not trying to speak against gear progression, just trying to illustrate what it means to continue to allow those combos.

[snip] When you master all that and know what are u doing in combat, you will like much more. Its difficult? yes. Takes many time to get used to keep an eye on the opponent next moves all the time but thats is what Will make you to win while getting fun and no gold superdupper sets.

would be more fun to all have some skills with some damage and then, what... firing them and see who dies faster? that is what you want, like in all other games?

Damn, the only nice thing that has this Game, pvp combat, and you want to change It to the le level of overland Maps lol

about gcd... no. It cant be bypassed while casting, but can be exploited to make It looks at is was (like in snipe desynch)

I didn't mention anything specific, but when you die in two seconds by a cheesy combo there isn't much learning can be done.... Shields going down in a second, damage reduction abilities obsolete etc.

Well all these combos can be predicted very easely:
A stamden activates shalks, so in 3 seconds he will try to one shot you with a dizzy, medium attack plus dawnbreaker.
A stamcro activates blastbones: he will try to hit you with dizzy and land a stun or dawnbreaker the same moment blastbones explode.
A sorc curses you: in 3 seconds he will shot his c-frag and probably streak through you right before.

Those are the most common combos and and example 1 and 2 are very easy to survive if you block at the right moment (doesnt cost that much stamina, if you block that). With one right mouse click you countered his whole combo. For the sorcerer combo its a bit more diffict, since the damage comes with an unblockable stun. So you have to prepare: cleanse the curse, apply shields or hots right before the combo hits you, block and break free asap, so maybe you still block one of the hits.

As easy as those players can almost one-shot you, as easy it is to avoid it. Combos are very predictable and with experience you will learn how and when to counter them.

....and VERY often these common combos are programmed nicely into a single keypress.... not saying YOU do it, but a large amount are.

Except that doesn’t work in Eso with lag so even if people used macros they’d be lucky if 1 skill went off let alone a full combo. [snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting]

Muzza45

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Muzza45 wrote: »

SavageChain wrote: »

Xargas13 wrote: »

coletas wrote: »

Xargas13 wrote: »

As I see it, most people don't even realize they proved my point. The delayed abilities are probably delayed because they are too powerful (my knowledge limited to one class) so if you are able to pull of multiple abilities at the same time, I see it as a problem, I wouldn't call it skill, because the player has little to no chances when that combo is spammed, skill is when you outplay your opponent, not kill him with two hits which he can't possibly counter. Imagine famed WoW, a player with gear that he hit max level with, and the guy with gear that he farmed through arenas, the player that hit max level could play better, but he simply doesn't stand a chance against that seasoned arena player, because he will die in those two hits before he could do anything.... Not trying to speak against gear progression, just trying to illustrate what it means to continue to allow those combos.

[snip] When you master all that and know what are u doing in combat, you will like much more. Its difficult? yes. Takes many time to get used to keep an eye on the opponent next moves all the time but thats is what Will make you to win while getting fun and no gold superdupper sets.

would be more fun to all have some skills with some damage and then, what... firing them and see who dies faster? that is what you want, like in all other games?

Damn, the only nice thing that has this Game, pvp combat, and you want to change It to the le level of overland Maps lol

about gcd... no. It cant be bypassed while casting, but can be exploited to make It looks at is was (like in snipe desynch)

I didn't mention anything specific, but when you die in two seconds by a cheesy combo there isn't much learning can be done.... Shields going down in a second, damage reduction abilities obsolete etc.

Well all these combos can be predicted very easely:
A stamden activates shalks, so in 3 seconds he will try to one shot you with a dizzy, medium attack plus dawnbreaker.
A stamcro activates blastbones: he will try to hit you with dizzy and land a stun or dawnbreaker the same moment blastbones explode.
A sorc curses you: in 3 seconds he will shot his c-frag and probably streak through you right before.

Those are the most common combos and and example 1 and 2 are very easy to survive if you block at the right moment (doesnt cost that much stamina, if you block that). With one right mouse click you countered his whole combo. For the sorcerer combo its a bit more diffict, since the damage comes with an unblockable stun. So you have to prepare: cleanse the curse, apply shields or hots right before the combo hits you, block and break free asap, so maybe you still block one of the hits.

As easy as those players can almost one-shot you, as easy it is to avoid it. Combos are very predictable and with experience you will learn how and when to counter them.

....and VERY often these common combos are programmed nicely into a single keypress.... not saying YOU do it, but a large amount are.

Except that doesn’t work in Eso with lag so even if people used macros they’d be lucky if 1 skill went off let alone a full combo. [snip]

[snip] If you lived in Australia like I do, you may have a point. Those who live near the server have far less lag. Extremely competent ace players don't have to Macro - a very large contingent who aren't masters take full advantage of their programmable mouse. And of course we all know cheating isn't possible in ESO lol

[Edited to remove Baiting]

FirmamentOfStars

Muzza45 wrote: »

SavageChain wrote: »

Xargas13 wrote: »

coletas wrote: »

Xargas13 wrote: »

As I see it, most people don't even realize they proved my point. The delayed abilities are probably delayed because they are too powerful (my knowledge limited to one class) so if you are able to pull of multiple abilities at the same time, I see it as a problem, I wouldn't call it skill, because the player has little to no chances when that combo is spammed, skill is when you outplay your opponent, not kill him with two hits which he can't possibly counter. Imagine famed WoW, a player with gear that he hit max level with, and the guy with gear that he farmed through arenas, the player that hit max level could play better, but he simply doesn't stand a chance against that seasoned arena player, because he will die in those two hits before he could do anything.... Not trying to speak against gear progression, just trying to illustrate what it means to continue to allow those combos.

[snip] When you master all that and know what are u doing in combat, you will like much more. Its difficult? yes. Takes many time to get used to keep an eye on the opponent next moves all the time but thats is what Will make you to win while getting fun and no gold superdupper sets.

would be more fun to all have some skills with some damage and then, what... firing them and see who dies faster? that is what you want, like in all other games?

Damn, the only nice thing that has this Game, pvp combat, and you want to change It to the le level of overland Maps lol

about gcd... no. It cant be bypassed while casting, but can be exploited to make It looks at is was (like in snipe desynch)

I didn't mention anything specific, but when you die in two seconds by a cheesy combo there isn't much learning can be done.... Shields going down in a second, damage reduction abilities obsolete etc.

Well all these combos can be predicted very easely:
A stamden activates shalks, so in 3 seconds he will try to one shot you with a dizzy, medium attack plus dawnbreaker.
A stamcro activates blastbones: he will try to hit you with dizzy and land a stun or dawnbreaker the same moment blastbones explode.
A sorc curses you: in 3 seconds he will shot his c-frag and probably streak through you right before.

Those are the most common combos and and example 1 and 2 are very easy to survive if you block at the right moment (doesnt cost that much stamina, if you block that). With one right mouse click you countered his whole combo. For the sorcerer combo its a bit more diffict, since the damage comes with an unblockable stun. So you have to prepare: cleanse the curse, apply shields or hots right before the combo hits you, block and break free asap, so maybe you still block one of the hits.

As easy as those players can almost one-shot you, as easy it is to avoid it. Combos are very predictable and with experience you will learn how and when to counter them.

....and VERY often these common combos are programmed nicely into a single keypress.... not saying YOU do it, but a large amount are.

As somebody else pointed out the amount of people using macros is probably pretty small. Still this does not change much for OP or the guy on the receiving end. Lets assume the enemy player brings out a perfectly timed macro combo of sub assault, dizzying swing, medium weave, dawnbreaker into executioner. For the receiver this means he has the same options as before: preparing for the impact. The combo still takes several cooldowns to activate (macros still have to respect the GCD), so the combo is quite easy to foresee. You still can block it easely. It doesnt even cost much stamine, since all attacks land in a short time window, so less stamina is spent for blocking the whole combo. OP can still be prepared for the combo and will survive it easely if he reacts properly. One other way to counter these combos is to stun the enemy player when starting it. This *** up their combo totally, so that skills can not land together and the surviving is even easier. If the enemy would use a macro, then the counter stun would cancel that too and leave him maybe unable to react to the stun.

So a macro is a very bad excuse here. Combos can be countered easely and OP has a lot to learn how to do it. Thats the biggest problem in here in my opinion.

Khatou

When I hear people talking about their experience in a game with so many bugs, it's really something to laugh about, people just use the monstrous balancing failures, a gameplay in TESO ? no at all, I've never seen a pvp as unbalanced and badly held as the TESO PVP and this is most probably due to this too free role system in pvp, I think that because of that the balance between classes will never be found on this game .

When you see the BG there is no fun to play because the violence of the fights is so great and unmanageable, it's clearly not an RPG "spirit"...