TES3

zaria

Raisin wrote: »

MAKIN MY WAY DOWNTOWN

Playing an Khajiit in TES 3 made me seasick, i never get seasick in boats
Think the rigging is wrong, if you equip an TES 3 Khajiit a robe you see this.

Now WOW has many digtigrade races with decent animations and they works well with standard gear, granted the designs in WOW are simpler and lots of designs are just recolors, would probably more than the work for helmets for Khajiit and Argonians, love the new Khajiit helmet styles.

Linaleah

I had such trouble getting into morrowind at first because even after modding the crap out of it, it still. looked. horrendous. to me. like... I was convinced that none of my mods worked until I disabled them and realized how much WORSE everything looked without them...

but hey, to each their own.

Mancombe_Nosehair

I found the original Morrowind to crash a lot. Even more than ESO.

JTorus

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

Unfortunately, I never got to play TES III: Morrowind. I picked up a copy for my xbx 360 back in the day and I found that it did not run smoothly, which made me nauseated when I tried to play it.

I hope they remaster it one day so I can go back and play it. I loved Oblivion and Skyrim and played the crap out of both of them before coming to ESO.

@BXR_Lonestar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qf8lMMpFIDU

Syldras

@JTorus If it will ever be finished

JTorus

Syldras wrote: »

@JTorus If it will ever be finished

I know right. It's okay, I'm patient, it'll be worth the wait. They still move faster than the official developers.

SeaGtGruff

Naftal wrote: »

They remove features in every TES game...

True; but they also add features. It's kind of fascinating, really-- the give and take of development versus simplification.

Arena has the "Passwall," "Pitfalls," and "Earth Wall" spells, which as far as I know vanished completely from subsequent TES games. But Arena also has a lot of what I call "window dressing" graphics-- objects that make the game environment far more visually interesting and engaging although you can't interact with them, such as fountains, Daedric shrines, trapdoors, barrels, skeletal corpses on the floor (the "dead mage" ones, not the ones you can loot), bookshelves, etc. You want to interact with everything so bad, but you can't.

I haven't played Daggerfall, Battlespire, and Redguard yet, but from what I've seen while watching Twitch streamers Daggerfall seems almost nightmarishly complex in terms of how much was added. Creating a custom character class looks like it must require a university course to fully wrap your brain around!

Morrowind has "Mark," "Recall," "Divine Intervention," and "Almsivi Intervention," which are great for extricating yourself from danger, or for teleporting to town to dump a bunch of loot on the ground before teleporting back to wherever you were to grab more loot. (Daggerfall has "Recall," but as I understand it the way it works is more awkward, with its "first cast, second cast" methodology.) And Morrowind takes "Levitate" to a whole 'nother level. (I don't know how it works in Daggerfall.) And I like the fact that you can control conversations by choosing from a variety of topics and unlocking additional topics, and how replies can vary depending on an NPC's disposition toward you (which Daggerfall also has, from what I've seen on Twitch). But I hate the "dice roll" approach to trying to pick a lock, trying to affect an NPC's disposition toward you, trying to make an alchemical potion, etc. How can you develop a skill when there's no skill involved, just a random result?

Oblivion may have dropped a lot of things from Morrowind and before, but I love that the conversation minigame actually lets you control how successfully you can affect an NPC's disposition toward you-- and yes, I've read that a lot of people despise the conversation minigame, but I think it's awesome. Picking locks successfully actually involves developing some skill at the process of picking locks. Making alchemical potions and poisons isn't an aggravating exercise in RNG futility.

Skyrim adds the ability to craft your own weapons, armor, and foodstuffs, which is awesome.

And ESO further develops the arts of crafting weapons, armor, food, drink, potions, poisons, and enchantments. And the sheer number of daily repeatable jobs for you to do really helps at giving the game replay value-- although the lack of variety in each of those jobs can get a bit tedious after you've done every possible quest several dozen times. Still, there are so many daily jobs available that it lets you choose whether to focus on crafting, doing dungeons, shutting down dolmens, recovering stolen or lost artifacts, assassinating targets, pulling off heists, killing dragons, etc. It's like you can actually have a job in the game, one that you've chosen because it aligns with your particular personality and interests, and one that can eventually become a daily grind, but that you can always change for a different job. Or you can just run around and goof off instead of working, if that's more to your liking.

Syldras

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

I love that the conversation minigame actually lets you control how successfully you can affect an NPC's disposition toward you-- and yes, I've read that a lot of people despise the conversation minigame, but I think it's awesome.

I would like it if it wasn't so nonsensical. How would people suddenly like you more if you anger them with a bad joke, threaten them, boast a bit and then admire them in the end? If that worked with a real person, I'd be more than worried about their mental state.

Linaleah

Syldras wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

I love that the conversation minigame actually lets you control how successfully you can affect an NPC's disposition toward you-- and yes, I've read that a lot of people despise the conversation minigame, but I think it's awesome.

I would like it if it wasn't so nonsensical. How would people suddenly like you more if you anger them with a bad joke, threaten them, boast a bit and then admire them in the end? If that worked with a real person, I'd be more than worried about their mental state.

its just game things. you cannot achieve genuine realism no matter how hard you try, so you create systems that kinda sorta mimic it. not very well, but at least to some degree.

its no different from rolling a die to determent whether npc you are talking to in DnD believes your lie or sees through it... or rolling perception check to see if you can detect enemies around you or are completely oblivious. morrowind is essentially built on those DnD systems up to and including rolling a die to determine via pure rng whether your attacks hit, miss or crit. /shrug

Syldras

Linaleah wrote: »

its just game things. you cannot achieve genuine realism no matter how hard you try, so you create systems that kinda sorta mimic it. not very well, but at least to some degree.
its no different from rolling a die to determent whether npc you are talking to in DnD believes your lie or sees through it...

It's one thing if you tell a joke or threaten someone or flatter someone and either succeed or fail, or if you're doing all in a row and have either a positive or a negative end result. That's what I find weird about the whole minigame.

Gorreck

Athan1 wrote: »

People typically find older games better because of nostalgia and conditioning. Most of the time, newer games are better because they have all features of the old games, plus a lot more. Additionally, better quality graphics. Game design might be worse tho, and newer games are easier than old ones.

I dunno, Morrowind with Skyrim or better graphics would be pretty ace (they are trying to mod it still I think).

When it comes to many game series each generation can actually reduce the scope of the game, this has happened with TES, especially Morrowind>Oblivion>Skyrim (and to some degree Arena & Daggerfall).

I mean if you consider Ultima 7 it's hard to say that could be a better game if made today, except for graphics.

And I'd love the freedom of Arena, Daggerfall and Morrowind in the next ES game.

JTorus

Gorreck wrote: »

Athan1 wrote: »

People typically find older games better because of nostalgia and conditioning. Most of the time, newer games are better because they have all features of the old games, plus a lot more. Additionally, better quality graphics. Game design might be worse tho, and newer games are easier than old ones.

I dunno, Morrowind with Skyrim or better graphics would be pretty ace (they are trying to mod it still I think).

When it comes to many game series each generation can actually reduce the scope of the game, this has happened with TES, especially Morrowind>Oblivion>Skyrim (and to some degree Arena & Daggerfall).

I mean if you consider Ultima 7 it's hard to say that could be a better game if made today, except for graphics.

And I'd love the freedom of Arena, Daggerfall and Morrowind in the next ES game.

Skywind is still being produced. It will be released (at its own pace) and I suspect that it will be something of a very well polished fan homage to what will be one of the greatest franchises we've seen. Morrowind's storyline alone is unsurpassed, proven by how many elements of it resonated and propagated throughout each subsequent release in the franchise.

We will likely never see that level of dedication again in TES. The gaming industry is just that, an industry. Like the frog in boiling water, fans gradually become numb to the shortcuts, tropes, and plagiarism that crept in over the years with each new chapter. That isn't to say anything after TES3 isn't enjoyable, but there will never be another Morrowind, and we all know it.

Michael Kirkbride gave us our closure with C0DA back in 2014. As bizarre as it is, it reminds us of what made TES stand out from the others.

Sylvermynx

JTorus wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

Unfortunately, I never got to play TES III: Morrowind. I picked up a copy for my xbx 360 back in the day and I found that it did not run smoothly, which made me nauseated when I tried to play it.

I hope they remaster it one day so I can go back and play it. I loved Oblivion and Skyrim and played the crap out of both of them before coming to ESO.

@BXR_Lonestar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qf8lMMpFIDU

Wow. How did I miss that I wonder (head in the sand time I guess). I sure hope that releases eventually - that would be truly awesome!

JTorus

Sylvermynx wrote: »

JTorus wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

Unfortunately, I never got to play TES III: Morrowind. I picked up a copy for my xbx 360 back in the day and I found that it did not run smoothly, which made me nauseated when I tried to play it.

I hope they remaster it one day so I can go back and play it. I loved Oblivion and Skyrim and played the crap out of both of them before coming to ESO.

@BXR_Lonestar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qf8lMMpFIDU

Wow. How did I miss that I wonder (head in the sand time I guess). I sure hope that releases eventually - that would be truly awesome!

I'll make it a two-fer for you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68uUeZGppXw

Sylvermynx

@JTorus - thank you! So now I need to bookmark the TESRenewal site. Again, apparently I've had my head in the sand for a long time!

JTorus

Sylvermynx wrote: »

@JTorus - thank you! So now I need to bookmark the TESRenewal site. Again, apparently I've had my head in the sand for a long time!

Nahh don't thank me, thank them. They're putting in the work. I'm just happy to share it.

Crow_IX

you have to remember this isn't your basic tes game. its an mmo, which means it has to be a different style entirely. most people pick this game up because "oh i love (insert tes game here) so i will love this one" come to find its an mmo in the tes universe. personally i thought that would be common sense as the game would be broken as an open world mmo environment with lets say morrowind combat mechanics. bows would be almost useless, the skill trees would be hard to incorporate and make fair. to compare eso to other tes games is to compare an mmo to an action based single player rpg. now i'm not saying eso is better nor morrowind is better. i'm just saying they shouldn't be compared as they're are two separate genres entirely.

Goregrinder

Nope.

Linaleah

Syldras wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

its just game things. you cannot achieve genuine realism no matter how hard you try, so you create systems that kinda sorta mimic it. not very well, but at least to some degree.
its no different from rolling a die to determent whether npc you are talking to in DnD believes your lie or sees through it...

It's one thing if you tell a joke or threaten someone or flatter someone and either succeed or fail, or if you're doing all in a row and have either a positive or a negative end result. That's what I find weird about the whole minigame.

right. but that's how it also works in DnD. because its not real life and there is only so much they can program in. especially back in those days when interaction weights were likely still in infancy. so lets say you threaten someone and it doesn't work because bad roll, but then you get a good roll and your joke goes throw? well you worked your way back into their good graces, because mathematically adding the weights of those actions - left you on a side of the positive gain.

its only weird if you are trying to expect realistic human reactions out of very rudimentary AI.

Sylvermynx

Crow_IX wrote: »

you have to remember this isn't your basic tes game. its an mmo, which means it has to be a different style entirely. most people pick this game up because "oh i love (insert tes game here) so i will love this one" come to find its an mmo in the tes universe. personally i thought that would be common sense as the game would be broken as an open world mmo environment with lets say morrowind combat mechanics. bows would be almost useless, the skill trees would be hard to incorporate and make fair. to compare eso to other tes games is to compare an mmo to an action based single player rpg. now i'm not saying eso is better nor morrowind is better. i'm just saying they shouldn't be compared as they're are two separate genres entirely.

That's pretty spot on. I was trying to post something similar this morning, but lost power and then couldn't remember what I'd had or how it was worded (and no draft that time of course *sigh*).

I knew this was an MMO version of the TES SPMR games when I started playing - and it wasn't my first rodeo, I played WoW from 2006 to 2013 and RIFT from 2013 to 2016, so I was prepared for the differences.

Syldras

Linaleah wrote: »

its only weird if you are trying to expect realistic human reactions out of very rudimentary AI.

I know there's not much to expect from Oblivion's AI, but I would have considered how else a disposition game could be designed without looking too awkward.

Crow_IX wrote: »

you have to remember this isn't your basic tes game. its an mmo, which means it has to be a different style entirely.

Even if the title of the thread looks otherwise, I think OP was more about the design/models of the races, especially Khajiit and Argonians. Oh, and about who rides whom, obviously.

thalosdaedra wrote: »

its so funny if Werewolf ride in Wolf.
its so funny big Khajiit ride in Cat.
its so funny Argonian ride in lizard.
Its so funny Human ride in People wait lol wait what?

As a Dunmer, I wouldn't mind a Argonian-drawn carriage. Or probably a litter or rikshaw.

danno8

Linaleah wrote: »

I had such trouble getting into morrowind at first because even after modding the crap out of it, it still. looked. horrendous. to me. like... I was convinced that none of my mods worked until I disabled them and realized how much WORSE everything looked without them...

but hey, to each their own.

I also had trouble sticking with Morrowind. For me thought it was the Major/Minor system that carried over to Oblivion, as well as the miss chance ridiculousness.

Those two systems can die in a fire.

Linaleah

danno8 wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

I had such trouble getting into morrowind at first because even after modding the crap out of it, it still. looked. horrendous. to me. like... I was convinced that none of my mods worked until I disabled them and realized how much WORSE everything looked without them...

but hey, to each their own.

I also had trouble sticking with Morrowind. For me thought it was the Major/Minor system that carried over to Oblivion, as well as the miss chance ridiculousness.

Those two systems can die in a fire.

and like.. don't get me wrong. morrowind is an important game in what it added to the lore, how it experimented with variety of things, etc. its essentially a prototype for future TES games and without it, tey may not be nearly as good, but... it really aged horribly IMO. and its not because i'm just not into old games or something. i sometimes replay games that are far older then Morrowind and they have aged like fine wine. I still have heroes of might and magic 2 perpetually installed for example.

Aesthetically Morrowind is such a mixed bag. what it has tried to do is pretty impressive and environments are decent, but character design and animations? ugh. shudder

Gorreck

Linaleah wrote: »

Aesthetically Morrowind is such a mixed bag. what it has tried to do is pretty impressive and environments are decent, but character design and animations? ugh. shudder

That didn't age particularly well, but equally a lot of it was amazing at the time, like the water in Morrowind was amazing at the time (much like the first fireball that shot past my head in DOAC was - at the time). Graphical stuff rarely seems to age well.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

driosketch wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

Athan1 wrote: »

People typically find older games better because of nostalgia and conditioning. Most of the time, newer games are better because they have all features of the old games, plus a lot more.

You have most probably never played Morrowind.

I played Morrowind briefly before Oblivion came out. Its setting was too different from the other ESO games I had played. I liked Daggerfall and Oblivion better.

From the other ESO games you have played....

You mean the other TES games.