Undaunted Infiltrator/Unweaver sets and changes to heavy attack builds

MrBrownstone

Ofc you run out of stam in PvP but how do you even run out of stam in PvE? I have a healer using Martial Knowledge and to be able to proc it without dodgeroll spam i slot Rapid... There is no way you're running out of stam in PvE, unless you rolldodge often while it's not necesarry at all. Just use trap in PvE and Dark Conversion in PvP. (Btw if that heavy attack build works in PvP i'm impressed) You don't need to have a full crit build to benefit from Minor Force, around 50-60% crit is enough to benefit from it.

Ascarl

malistorr wrote: »

Most mag characters are not in melee range because of the light armor and range dps that they're intended to be. That immediately throws out just about all of what you suggested but thank you for the comments anyway. I heavy attack from far away and there are much better sets than Zaan for that. Even if I was going to stay close I'd probably use Grothdar instead. And I don't use a lot of the skills you mentioned.

This post is starting to go pretty far off topic so I'm going to abandon it and just hope that they reverse the horrible decision about changing the proc condition that used to be using a magic based skill for Undaunted Infiltrator to using a stam skill.
For now I'll just trap because I have no choice to otherwise play the way I want to and make it a viable play style. I really which this company would stop trying to force everyone into LA weaving and using just a few sets to be able to pass end game content. Oh well, I guess expecting intelligent and common sense decisions can't be expected these days.

I found the thread very interesting and helpful, thanks to all contributors. It seems to me that your original intent was rather to vent.

Ascarl

PS I would add "Spiked Bone Shield" to the discussion. While mag sorcs have already hardened ward, stacking shields can be very strong.
I switched recently to stamina but I will give heavy attack sorc another try. UU/ND together with stacking shields might be a nice playstyle for world bosses and arenas.

malistorr

Never heard of Spiked Bone Shield. Is that a skill sorcs have? I'm going to try Noble Duelist Silks just because it provides a much larger heavy attack buff that Infallible. I don't like the rest of the bonuses but I'll see if it helps in PvE overall since there aren't many options for how I want to play. It works ok in PvP. Mostly because I don't run out of resources and can hit people from very far away. I kill more times than I get killed so that's a win with a total PvE build and not even any impen gear. Once I make an actual PvP toon I expect to do pretty well. I'll have different gear though most likely.

Ascarl

Undaunted stamina shield scaling on health. It stacks with sorc ward shield.

kathandira

RaptorRodeoGod wrote: »

Personally, from a PvE DPS perspective, I would run Noble Duelist's Silk on the body, Undaunted Unweaver staff on the front bar, vMA staff backbar, and Zaan for the monster set. I would probably NOT run Infallible Mage because the proc damage is half of what Noble Duelist's Silk is, and Minor Vulnerability is better provided by other classes. I would only consider Infallible Mage because of the Minor Slayer it gives, or if there were no source of Minor Vulnerability in the group. If I did run that set, I would replace Undaunted Unweaver for it, because Undaunted Unweaver has a lower proc damage compared to Noble Duelist's Silk.

Front Bar:
Inner Light - Major Prophecy, Max Magicka
Twilight Tormentor - Passive Damage
Volatile Familiar - Passive Damage
Lightweight Beast Trap - To proc Undaunted Unweaver, Minor Force
Bound Aegis - Max Magicka
Ulti: Greater Storm Atronach

Back Bar:
Inner Light
Twilight Tormentor
Volatile Familiar
Unstable Wall - Procs vMA Staff
Degeneration - Major Sorcery
Ulti: Elemental Rage

Blue Max Magicka/Health food, because you won't need magicka recovery
Lover mundus without full penetration, Thief mundus with full penetration

*Note you'd have to stay in melee range to proc Noble Duelist's Silk. Not a big deal because you need to be in melee for Zaan anyways.

My view on the difference between Infallible and Noble Duelist.

Infallible Mage

(2 items) Adds 833 Spell Critical
(3 items) Gain Minor Slayer at all times, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial, and Arena Monsters by 5%.
(4 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(5 items) Adds 833 Spell Critical, Your Heavy Attacks deal an additional 900 damage. Enemies you damage with fully-charged Heavy Attacks are afflicted with Minor Vulnerability for 10 seconds, increasing their damage taken by 8%.

Though the Heavy Attack damage is a bit lower, you also get an additional 13% additional damage to all of your attacks.


Noble Duelist's Silks

(2 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
(3 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(5 items) When you deal damage with a Light or Heavy Attack in melee range, you cause your Light and Heavy Attacks to deal an additional 1811 damage for 5 seconds. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds.

Noble Duelist does give a larger bonus, but you must be in Melee Range to gain this effect, and it is only for 5 seconds. If you are out of Melee range when the effect expires, you will not receive it again until you re-enter melee range. Infallible Aether has 100% uptime no matter your range from the enemy.


Undaunted Unweaver

(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(4 items) Adds 833 Spell Critical
(5 items) When you use an ability that costs Stamina, you increase the damage of your Light and Heavy Attacks by 1685 for 10 seconds.

Also, since Undaunted Unweaver does have a Set Bonus of Crit, i'd personally like to capitalize on that by adding the crit from Infallible rather than it feeling like a wasted set bonus, much like the Noble Duelist Stamina Recovery Set Bonus which is a wasted slot for a Set Bonus on a Magicka build.

Celestro

kathandira wrote: »

RaptorRodeoGod wrote: »

Personally, from a PvE DPS perspective, I would run Noble Duelist's Silk on the body, Undaunted Unweaver staff on the front bar, vMA staff backbar, and Zaan for the monster set. I would probably NOT run Infallible Mage because the proc damage is half of what Noble Duelist's Silk is, and Minor Vulnerability is better provided by other classes. I would only consider Infallible Mage because of the Minor Slayer it gives, or if there were no source of Minor Vulnerability in the group. If I did run that set, I would replace Undaunted Unweaver for it, because Undaunted Unweaver has a lower proc damage compared to Noble Duelist's Silk.

Front Bar:
Inner Light - Major Prophecy, Max Magicka
Twilight Tormentor - Passive Damage
Volatile Familiar - Passive Damage
Lightweight Beast Trap - To proc Undaunted Unweaver, Minor Force
Bound Aegis - Max Magicka
Ulti: Greater Storm Atronach

Back Bar:
Inner Light
Twilight Tormentor
Volatile Familiar
Unstable Wall - Procs vMA Staff
Degeneration - Major Sorcery
Ulti: Elemental Rage

Blue Max Magicka/Health food, because you won't need magicka recovery
Lover mundus without full penetration, Thief mundus with full penetration

*Note you'd have to stay in melee range to proc Noble Duelist's Silk. Not a big deal because you need to be in melee for Zaan anyways.

My view on the difference between Infallible and Noble Duelist.

Infallible Mage

(2 items) Adds 833 Spell Critical
(3 items) Gain Minor Slayer at all times, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial, and Arena Monsters by 5%.
(4 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(5 items) Adds 833 Spell Critical, Your Heavy Attacks deal an additional 900 damage. Enemies you damage with fully-charged Heavy Attacks are afflicted with Minor Vulnerability for 10 seconds, increasing their damage taken by 8%.

Though the Heavy Attack damage is a bit lower, you also get an additional 13% additional damage to all of your attacks.


Noble Duelist's Silks

(2 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
(3 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(5 items) When you deal damage with a Light or Heavy Attack in melee range, you cause your Light and Heavy Attacks to deal an additional 1811 damage for 5 seconds. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds.

Noble Duelist does give a larger bonus, but you must be in Melee Range to gain this effect, and it is only for 5 seconds. If you are out of Melee range when the effect expires, you will not receive it again until you re-enter melee range. Infallible Aether has 100% uptime no matter your range from the enemy.


Undaunted Unweaver

(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(4 items) Adds 833 Spell Critical
(5 items) When you use an ability that costs Stamina, you increase the damage of your Light and Heavy Attacks by 1685 for 10 seconds.

Also, since Undaunted Unweaver does have a Set Bonus of Crit, i'd personally like to capitalize on that by adding the crit from Infallible rather than it feeling like a wasted set bonus, much like the Noble Duelist Stamina Recovery Set Bonus which is a wasted slot for a Set Bonus on a Magicka build.

Yep I certainly agree with most of this. As mentioned, a lot of the time there is a source of Minor Vulnerability, especially so from Shock Damage but if running solo, it does become more appealing.

Also, its kind of situational honestly but the Stamina Recovery isn't entirely useless for Mag if you combo Noble Duelist's with Undaunted Unweaver. As mentioned, its situational but if handling something that requires a bit of blocking, dodging or what have you, it'll help a bit at least. Especially as I imagine needing to transition in and out of the 5m melee range -might- come up from time to time. Nothing major but helps.

Zodiarkslayer

@kathandira While I understand your argument, it is still somewhat flawed.

First off: Infallible Mage doesn't add flat 13% damage. Minor Slayer is only active in Dungeon, Trials and Arena. It is useless outside of it. Kind of the same point you try to make about the stam recovery, isn't it?
And minor vulnerability procs after a fully charged heavy attack. So there is at least a 2 second channelled attack per rotation where it isn't active (estimated, I don't know how long a fully charged heavy attack takes, have to google it). Besides, it would at that point probably have procced anyway from shock damage and concussion. Assuming the use of wall of elements, of course.

And secoundly: The point of the combination of Unweaver/Duellist is to push heavy attack damage as far as possible. Plus these two sets synergize well with one another.

Thirdly: At the core, due to damage calculation formulae in ESO, the additional 911 attack damage far outweigh 13% flat damage. Of which only 5% can be honestly considered, due to the the easy access to minor vulnerability for this build.

Edit: removed quote due to length.

zvavi

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

Assuming the use of wall of elements, of course.

Wall doesn't proc minor vulnerability, vulnerability comes from concussion itself.

happyhughes2001

You could stick with undaunted infiltrator and aether because the heavy attack damage has been buffed a lot. Yes you lose two magic bonuses but overall it is a buff.

Mobius0

An unrelated question about this set:

With a heavy attack with DW, does it add the damage twice (DW heavy attacks hit twice.)?

I'm one of the few people that is very happy for the stat bonus change, since I want to use the Infiltrator set as a stamblade. Since it's a 10 second buff, it seems like a great option for a back bar set, and RaT and Cloak are both Magicka abilities (fear too), so it would be up just from my regular combat actions!

This also seems great for LA weaving, with the latest improvement.

Mindcr0w

If has always applied to both hits of a dw heavy attack in the past. I'm assuming that hasn't changed.

Traditionally the set has only really worked well with a lightning staff since the bonus damage applied to all 4 ticks of the staff's damage, and most other weapons have only one or two ticks in their heavies.

That said the sizeable buff to the bonus heavy attack damage, combined with the even bigger buff to light attack damage, and the 4pc bonus no longer being "wasted" stats means the set might just become useful for more varied setups. Give it a try and share your results.

OG_Kaveman

malistorr wrote: »

Most mag characters are not in melee range because of the light armor and range dps that they're intended to be. That immediately throws out just about all of what you suggested but thank you for the comments anyway. I heavy attack from far away and there are much better sets than Zaan for that. Even if I was going to stay close I'd probably use Grothdar instead. And I don't use a lot of the skills you mentioned.

This post is starting to go pretty far off topic so I'm going to abandon it and just hope that they reverse the horrible decision about changing the proc condition that used to be using a magic based skill for Undaunted Infiltrator to using a stam skill.
For now I'll just trap because I have no choice to otherwise play the way I want to and make it a viable play style. I really which this company would stop trying to force everyone into LA weaving and using just a few sets to be able to pass end game content. Oh well, I guess expecting intelligent and common sense decisions can't be expected these days.

you are aware that lightweight beast trap, the other morph of barbed trap, is a range ability right? you can toss it as far as you can heavy attack from, no need to be in melee range.

also, try to be less dismissive of people that are genuinely trying to help you, especially when your "not a math wiz" and they are. it is not a good look for you.

Zodiarkslayer

zvavi wrote: »

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

Assuming the use of wall of elements, of course.

Wall doesn't proc minor vulnerability, vulnerability comes from concussion itself.

I know. Sorry for the missunderstanding. I didn't want to point everything out.

My point was layering multiple shock damage sources practically guarantees the concussion proc on cooldown. And using minor vulnerability via setbonus seems to be waste of opportunity.
On the MagSorc you have two class sources as DoT plus the shock staff heavy attack. I assumed that to be obvious. And then the wall for maximum chance and effect.

@zvavi Are you satisfied Sir?

malistorr

Thank you for any replies that address what I asked about. Many did and some did not.
I'm going to stick with Undaunted Unweaver and Noble Duelist for now. So far it seems to be preforming well for how I play. I don't really think any monster set is great but I'm leaning towards Ilabbris since the 33% chance is pretty high and it goes along with my lightning theme. Slimecraw is another I consider. I used Grothdar for a long time and like it but the % chance is much lower so I've been avoiding it.

I'm not interested in the ranged beast trap. It's just not how I want to play. Having to aim skills slows me down. It's a good idea for people who'd enjoy doing the aiming however. I really just use a couple AOEs and run around in a circle heavy attacking and kill things pretty quickly. I'm sure my single target DPS is not elite but this build performs really well in trials and dungeons, especially on mobs/ads. I get many comments about it all the time and people asking what I'm using. For someone who dreads the thought of having to light attack weave (it just doesn't sound fun to me and to me makes the game more like a sport than something relaxing and enjoyable) I think this is about the best build there is. Xynode has completely gone away from the "easy" part of his sorc vids. I'm sure the build and play style is great and powerful. But for someone who really wants an "easy" build, this is it. I have a 1-bar version as well which is great for people with disabilities, arthritis, etc. who don't have much dexterity. You lose a little DPS but even the 1-bar version can pass most content in the game.

You use the Maelstrom lightning staff on the only bar (shock enchant with infused or charged trait) and skip the monster set. Just use a full set of Noble and Undaunted Unweaver for all armor and jewels. You still get the 3 big HA buffs.

Bobby_V_Rockit

Awe, they busted my infiltrator set. Can I have the transmute gems and gold plating back please?

Ascarl

According to different sources the increased damages more than offsets the "wrong" stats.

karekiz

Ascarl wrote: »

According to different sources the increased damages more than offsets the "wrong" stats.

What sources are those?

Ascarl

Xynode for example
"If you are utilizing the original Summerset setup (Undaunted Infiltrator+Aether) you actually got BUFFED! That’s right, people all over the community though it was gone forever but remember, you have ME in your corner, never panic and never say never… Undaunted infiltrator was infact, BUFFED! The light and heavy attack bonus (stacking with Aether+Maelstrom buffs) was increased by almost 50%! Your light and heavy attacks are now HIGHER!"
https://xynodegaming.com/easysorc/

Bobby_V_Rockit

Ascarl wrote: »

Xynode for example
"If you are utilizing the original Summerset setup (Undaunted Infiltrator+Aether) you actually got BUFFED! That’s right, people all over the community though it was gone forever but remember, you have ME in your corner, never panic and never say never… Undaunted infiltrator was infact, BUFFED! The light and heavy attack bonus (stacking with Aether+Maelstrom buffs) was increased by almost 50%! Your light and heavy attacks are now HIGHER!"
https://xynodegaming.com/easysorc/

I cant remember what the old stats were, wasnt 2-3 pieces extra magicka?

Icaruzs

Ascarl wrote: »

Xynode for example
"If you are utilizing the original Summerset setup (Undaunted Infiltrator+Aether) you actually got BUFFED! That’s right, people all over the community though it was gone forever but remember, you have ME in your corner, never panic and never say never… Undaunted infiltrator was infact, BUFFED! The light and heavy attack bonus (stacking with Aether+Maelstrom buffs) was increased by almost 50%! Your light and heavy attacks are now HIGHER!"
https://xynodegaming.com/easysorc/

i saw it on his videos, but he didnt show how much dps he did with his old set up (IA+UI), he said it was up 5k, just noticed a small inscrease of dps with my mag sorc. How much xynode could parse before buffs with his old setup 70k? so now is he doing 75k? How much could you guys parse with the new Undaunted infiltrator?

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

@kathandira While I understand your argument, it is still somewhat flawed.

First off: Infallible Mage doesn't add flat 13% damage. Minor Slayer is only active in Dungeon, Trials and Arena. It is useless outside of it. Kind of the same point you try to make about the stam recovery, isn't it?
And minor vulnerability procs after a fully charged heavy attack. So there is at least a 2 second channelled attack per rotation where it isn't active (estimated, I don't know how long a fully charged heavy attack takes, have to google it). Besides, it would at that point probably have procced anyway from shock damage and concussion. Assuming the use of wall of elements, of course.

And secoundly: The point of the combination of Unweaver/Duellist is to push heavy attack damage as far as possible. Plus these two sets synergize well with one another.

Thirdly: At the core, due to damage calculation formulae in ESO, the additional 911 attack damage far outweigh 13% flat damage. Of which only 5% can be honestly considered, due to the the easy access to minor vulnerability for this build.

Edit: removed quote due to length.

About minor vunerability being on the shock status effect, you guys have to remember that certain monster are imune to status effect like some daedra, only away to apply minor vunerability is through IA. Also in a raid the shock status effect is up only 70%-80% of the entire fight in most groups, IA certain helps with this.

If i'm not mistaken Spider daedra, Storm atronachs (normal and bosses) are imune to concussed (tempest island and vAA), Skeletons too (idk if it applies to every undead)

if someone can confirm what kind of monster are imune to each status effect, i want to try to make a list