Undaunted Infiltrator/Unweaver sets and changes to heavy attack builds

malistorr

Hi all,
For people like me using gear similar to the Xynode Easy Mode Sorc vids, I was wondering what people are doing to proc the reworked Undaunted Unweaver set 5th item bonus? (that they'll use to replace the Undaunted Infiltrator set for Mag Sorc if they haven't already) It has to be a stam-using ability so I was thinking I could use Crystal Weapon IV. But the description says it gives a physical damage increase to LA and HA. It also says it reduces the target's armor. I was wondering how this will work with a destruction staff (lightning in my case) using Mag Sorc? The armor debuff on the enemy won't help us correct since we do magic or elemental damage and that's not mitigated by lower enemy armor? Please let me know if I'm wrong on that. And I wasn't sure if a lightning staff heavy attack will really be buffed by the "Physical Damage" or if this skill is really only designed to be used by a weapon-holding stam character? If so, IMO there should be a version of this skill that does magic or elemental damage instead and lowers spell resistance. That seems like it would be an equal skill to benefit the magicka side.

If anyone can answer the questions above I appreciate it. If you factually know. No offense but I'm not interested in "I think" comments. I just want to know how it works today after update 27. You'll help me and others avoid spending a bunch of time having to go out and test this. I (and probably others) appreciate any info you can contribute. If this skill will not buff lightning staff heavy attacks, I was wondering what other stam-using skill other mag sorc will use to proc the 5th item bonus of the Undaunted Unweaver set? The only other one I can find that seems like it could be helpful is Dark Converion IV. But this won't help DPS much. It will help keep us alive and give a little bit of resources back but doesn't do damage. For a pure mag sorc dps what stam skill can be used? Thanks

YandereGirlfriend

Trap Beast from the Fighters Guild.

karekiz

Just use new Medusa set honestly.

rnklippel

I think Trap Beast will be the most suitable option. It's an ability that's already commonly used and will give you good results. The Lightweight Beast Trap morph is probably even better, since you can stay at range and its duration is more similar to the Unweaver buff.

I tested Crystal Weapon on the PTS when the changes were announced:

1. It doesn't "buff" your light/heavy attacks, it simply does a separate tick of physical damage, the same way it would do if you had a physical damage glyph on your staff. The damage is low because your weapon damage is low.

2. The armor reduction will indeed benefit you because it will lower both the physical and spell resistance of your enemy, so it will increase your magic/elemental damage a little bit.

But if you wanted to swap to a traditional sorc setup, you would have to pay to change the morph back to crystal fragments, so I don't think it's worth using the stamina version of the skill for the heavy attack build.

Banana

Make sure you're wearing Noble Duelists as well

malistorr

Thanks karekiz. That might be good for a LA weaver. I'm using a heavy attack build so need the buffs from Undaunted Unweaver and Infallible Aether. I also use the Maelstrom lightning staff on the back bar for a 3rd HA buff form WOE. Thanks for the idea though. I'm sure it will be interesting to see what people come up with using some combination of Mother's Sorrow, Medusa, and Treasure Hunter. But for me having crit hits isn't a big deal. If my HA damage isn't very high then having the damage double 60-90% of the time isn't a big deal. With the 3 HA buffs mentioned above I can get each tick of my HA to hit mid-20s to mid 30sK damage. I guess that's because of multipliers or something. Don't know, not a math wiz. Without the 3 HA buffs each tick may be 4 or 5K and doubling that with crit hits still looks like pathetic damage when compared to how I'm currently setup.

Thanks YandereGirlfriend I'll try that skill. Didn't really consider a fighter's guild skill since they're all so worthless to a mag character and actually don't look that great (on paper) to a stam character either. But I'll try it. I just tested out using Crystal Weapon and to me it didn't look like it buffed the lightning staff HA at all other than procing Undaunted Unweaver which any stam skill will do.

I think it's really stupid that a mag character has to cast a stam ability to trigger a big important buff. Mag characters stam pool is so pathetically small to begin with and we need stam for roll/break/run/sneak/etc. If I don't end up liking Trap it looks like Dark Conversion it is. That will replace my hardened ward I guess. It's not a shield it's a restore but it could help keep me alive if needed and I'll have to use something to proc Undaunted Unweaver. It would be nice to get a set for a mag dps that just buffed heavy attacks (besides Infalliable Aether) that didn't need to be proced. Or at least leave it where it procs off a magicka ability.

Some of the change Zen makes are so stupid I wonder what they're thinking.

zvavi

You can use the other morph of trap beast, it has 10 seconds uptime, and is ranged, if you plan on 100% uptime on your new set.

malistorr

I don't really want anything that has to be aimed as that will just slow me down. But I'll see which morph looks most useful and try it after leveling the skill to IV. And I'll just stick with Dark Conversion if I don't like Trap. It doesn't look like there is really other good options. Once again don't understand what ZOS is thinking here.

Grianasteri

Are Zos having a flipping laugh?

Theyve made the mag set into stam and the stam set into mag... WTF Zos. At least keep the mag set as Infiltrator for goodness sake!

Could you screw over players any more? The farms for these sets, the Undaunted Infiltrator set in particular (cos you really need a shock staff), has been for a great many people, an absolute nightmare. I've ran Arx Corinium in excess of 300 times, probably closer to 400 times. NEVER ONCE DROPPED SHOCK STAFF.

This farm became a thing of principle for me, I dont even care about using the set anymore, cos my version of the "Easy Sorc" is so different now anyway its my own thing. Funnily enough its become a running joke in my guild, that I keep running this dungeon with no success and that obviously eventually Infiltrator would get changed by Zos. Well now it has and I feel like writing a list of expletives a mile long.

Off to make a cuppa and calm down.

Joxer61

He (Xynode) has a "new" build coming...promise....its done, its dusted, it will be out in the next few days.....patience.
You will be pleased....

zvavi

Grianasteri wrote: »

Are Zos having a flipping laugh?

Theyve made the mag set into stam and the stam set into mag... WTF Zos. At least keep the mag set as Infiltrator for goodness sake!

I mean, you could always just keep using the old set, if u compare it to necropotence, last patch u were losing 4k~ max mag for 1000~ ha damage, now u lose 6k for 1500~ ha damage, so essentially you didn't lose the essence of the set at all, but now can farm an even better set. Much better.

karekiz

malistorr wrote: »

Thanks karekiz. That might be good for a LA weaver.

I am confused. Xynode LA weaves in his builds. He even states to LA weave.

malistorr

I think you didn't understand what I said. Here it is again:

"For people like me using gear similar to the Xynode Easy Mode Sorc vids"

I didn't say I play exactly like the build and I definitely have never LA weaved at all or even close to it.

I, like many others, started with the Xynode video for build advice. I used the gear and not much else. I learned a lot about the game over time and became pretty good at theorycrafting and putting together my own skills that I like to use and a playstyle that's easy to play but still powerful enough to pass almost everything in the game. I have what I feel is an "Easier mode sorc" or "Easiest mode sorc" build where I use a few AOE skills and just heavy attack. His build at this point really is not easy at all. Both in gear needed and in light attack weaving. I'm sure it's great for DPS if you use exactly what his last build recommended but he should seriously change the name at this point.

Luckily for me I already had 2 Infallible Aether lightning staffs and the jewelry too. So I just farmed Blackheart and got the Undaunted Unweaver armor and it took maybe a day. I just have to transmute a couple things and I'm basically back to the same gear as before. Although using Unweaver instead of the old version of Infiltrator adds another 4% crit chance and the heavy attack buff was raised a good amount also. So for people switching sets like I did I'd expect your DPS to increase with everything else staying the same. I just wish I could avoid having to cast an annoying stam ability to proc a buff for a mag character. Pretty stupid if you ask me. I don't want to use a single stam skill that exists in this game but yet I'm forced to now to play the way I want to.

ZOS, you can do better than this. Change the proc on Unweaver to a mag ability like it was on Infiltrator or get rid of it altogether! I'm not one yet, but there are people who can't physically LA weave, don't want a stam skill on their 1 bar, and you're making it more difficult for them to have a viable build that they can use to pass most of the game content.

Icaruzs

Replace the light attack before daedrick tomb with a trap beast. The trap prob deals less damage than a light attack but it procs unweaver and activate minor force.

Noble duelist i dont think it works with staffs... Since the set requires a melee attack to proc... But if it works with staffs can someone do the maths would it surpass infaliable aether? (Keep in mind IA gives minor slayer too)

Banana

https://www.hacktheminotaur.com/builds/eso-magicka-sorcerer-solo-group-pve-build-shock-master

Firstmep

Icaruzs wrote: »

Replace the light attack before daedrick tomb with a trap beast. The trap prob deals less damage than a light attack but it procs unweaver and activate minor force.

Noble duelist i dont think it works with staffs... Since the set requires a melee attack to proc... But if it works with staffs can someone do the maths would it surpass infaliable aether? (Keep in mind IA gives minor slayer too)

That's not what the set says, it says light or heavy attack in melee range, that's not the same as melee weapon.

Celestro

Yeah combining Undaunted Unweaver and Noble Duelist seemed like a pretty decent go to for replacing IA for these type of builds, especially for those that are comfortable with weaving a few Light Attacks in.

malistorr

I don't light attack at all or use daedrick tomb. I am keeping IA because it's the best set for heavy attack using mag sorc period. It's not even close. Feel free to have a discussion about other skills and play styles but please do it in another post/thread, as it's not relevant to my post. I don't mean to be rude but you're talking about things now that this post isn't about. I'd like to keep the discussion on topic to what OP (me) asked. Thank you.

Anyone else have any suggestions for a stam using skill to proc the 5th item bonus of Undaunted Unweaver please let me know. I guess I'll go with Trap since I'm a DPS. I just really hope they change this proc condition. I'll use Circle of Protection or Dark Conversion if I want to go more survive/sustain but that's not really good for DPS. There aren't many choices here. This is dumb.

Gulnagel

Ignore, answered wrong thread.

Celestro

malistorr wrote: »

I don't light attack at all or use daedrick tomb. I am keeping IA because it's the best set for heavy attack using mag sorc period. It's not even close. Feel free to have a discussion about other skills and play styles but please do it in another post/thread, as it's not relevant to my post. I don't mean to be rude but you're talking about things now that this post isn't about. I'd like to keep the discussion on topic to what OP (me) asked. Thank you.

Anyone else have any suggestions for a stam using skill to proc the 5th item bonus of Undaunted Unweaver please let me know. I guess I'll go with Trap since I'm a DPS. I just really hope they change this proc condition. I'll use Circle of Protection or Dark Conversion if I want to go more survive/sustain but that's not really good for DPS. There aren't many choices here. This is dumb.

Your question has been answered regardless of anything else stated in the thread. Nothing else is remotely fitting for a Mag DPS to use except Trap because it offers a buff that is much sought after in PvE and at least deals damage while at it.

Not much else to discuss except offering alternate suggestions to use over Unweaver which has an ability youre not seemingly happy with so.

malistorr

Yeah, everything's been slotted to stam dps for years. Just look at all the skills and all the sets. I care barely find skills worth using as a mag sorc dps. Oh well, some day maybe they'll make comparable gear to stam for mag. There are stam sets that buff heavy attacks a lot more than mag sets do and some you don't even need to proc. I really hope they reverse this stupid decision to have Unwearver proc. with a stam-using skill. Trap is a weak waste of time and I don't want to cast it but am forced to. This game is becoming less fun to play every update.

Zodiarkslayer

@malistorr I can certainly sympathise.
Thinking about it I came up with 4 different options for you.
1) Circle of Protection. the minor protection and endurance buff are really good if you have to go melee. Plus you get a small heal.
2) Barbed Trap. Come on, keep an open mind! DOT plus buff is really nice.
3) Crushing Weapon. The Stamina morph heals you for a bit and if not used you get about half the stamina cost back! That makes it much less inconvenient to use. Plus you can use it on the front bar to proc crystal frags.
4) Echoing Vigor I mean come on! It is the most useful stamina support skill. Even as a magsorc you can get a lot of out of it!

zvavi

If you like being melee noble duelist can be used too.

Celestro

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

@malistorr I can certainly sympathise.
Thinking about it I came up with 4 different options for you.
1) Circle of Protection. the minor protection and endurance buff are really good if you have to go melee. Plus you get a small heal.
2) Barbed Trap. Come on, keep an open mind! DOT plus buff is really nice.
3) Crushing Weapon. The Stamina morph heals you for a bit and if not used you get about half the stamina cost back! That makes it much less inconvenient to use. Plus you can use it on the front bar to proc crystal frags.
4) Echoing Vigor I mean come on! It is the most useful stamina support skill. Even as a magsorc you can get a lot of out of it!

Crushing Weapons wouldn't proc Crystal Frags since its a stamina ability.

Zodiarkslayer

Celestro wrote: »

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

@malistorr I can certainly sympathise.
Thinking about it I came up with 4 different options for you.
1) Circle of Protection. the minor protection and endurance buff are really good if you have to go melee. Plus you get a small heal.
2) Barbed Trap. Come on, keep an open mind! DOT plus buff is really nice.
3) Crushing Weapon. The Stamina morph heals you for a bit and if not used you get about half the stamina cost back! That makes it much less inconvenient to use. Plus you can use it on the front bar to proc crystal frags.
4) Echoing Vigor I mean come on! It is the most useful stamina support skill. Even as a magsorc you can get a lot of out of it!

Crushing Weapons wouldn't proc Crystal Frags since its a stamina ability.

Right! Ahhh!
I made a BooBoo and posted it!

MrBrownstone

I don't understand. You say you have a very good knowledge about the game but you have no idea that literally all builds need the Minor Force buff so they either get it from Channeled Acceleration or Barbed Trap?

Some people use Channeled because it lets you stay ranged and some people use Trap because they don't like the cast time and it consumes Stamina instead of Magicka, which is good for sustain

malistorr

Your comment that all builds need Minor Force is just plain wrong, sorry. It may be desirable to have but not at the expense of actually doing damage for a DPS. I've never used either of those skills and have done very well playing. This is a heavy attack build. Not a crit chance and crit damage increase build like almost every cookie cutter copycat build is these days. I'm not Alcast and I don't use Mother's Sorrow. And I heavy attack and don't have sustain issues. For my build, the only things that really matter is that I stay alive and can buff my heavy attack as much as possible. This is NOT a light attack weaving crit build.

Sorcs have no points in stamina and no gear giving stamina or recovery. So just running a few feet and I feel like I'm out to stam or I literally am. I don't even have enough to break free from things in Cyrodil in PVP fights. I get trapped all the time, because most stam players play exactly the same way, and can't move or get out. So now I have to use my non-existent stam just to get a DPS buff that should be given without any proc condition at all like in many stam sets. Why not have us use a skill that takes a resource we have 400% more of. We're left with too little stam as it is to effectively play. Having basic game functions like break and roll use stam is already giving a huge unfair advantage to stam characters vs. mag. I swear every dev plays the game and uses stam characters so they enjoy screwing anyone using a sorc or other mag character.

I am using Trap. It's the only option really. I love playing a game where the dev dictates exactly how you play. This is the 1st game where I'm told how I have to play. I hope they know that they've further excluded anyone with physical limitations or sore hands from being able to play the game effectively. Some people needed to use 1 bar and mostly just heavy attack to play. Now they have to slot a weak stam skill on an already overcrowded 1-bar to get a buff they need to try and pass even basic content. I just don't get it. These decision make no logical sense at all. I guess they're all working from home and are just in coast mode so they're not really putting any effort into the game except to push out more buggy content in an attempt to raise the stock price.

karekiz

All stats (Generally) buff your Heavy Atk. Equip Netches + Lightning staff + Roaring Opportunist if you want. It will buff your heavy attack and anyone your grouped with

malistorr

I'm familiar with those sets and they buff heavy attack a small fraction as much as using the 2 sets I'm currently using. Roaring is good for trials but I personally wouldn't ever wear it because my heavy attack damage would drop too much.

RaptorRodeoGod

Personally, from a PvE DPS perspective, I would run Noble Duelist's Silk on the body, Undaunted Unweaver staff on the front bar, vMA staff backbar, and Zaan for the monster set. I would probably NOT run Infallible Mage because the proc damage is half of what Noble Duelist's Silk is, and Minor Vulnerability is better provided by other classes. I would only consider Infallible Mage because of the Minor Slayer it gives, or if there were no source of Minor Vulnerability in the group. If I did run that set, I would replace Undaunted Unweaver for it, because Undaunted Unweaver has a lower proc damage compared to Noble Duelist's Silk.

Front Bar:
Inner Light - Major Prophecy, Max Magicka
Twilight Tormentor - Passive Damage
Volatile Familiar - Passive Damage
Lightweight Beast Trap - To proc Undaunted Unweaver, Minor Force
Bound Aegis - Max Magicka
Ulti: Greater Storm Atronach

Back Bar:
Inner Light
Twilight Tormentor
Volatile Familiar
Unstable Wall - Procs vMA Staff
Degeneration - Major Sorcery
Ulti: Elemental Rage

Blue Max Magicka/Health food, because you won't need magicka recovery
Lover mundus without full penetration, Theif mundus with full penetration

*Note you'd have to stay in melee range to proc Noble Duelist's Silk. Not a big deal because you need to be in melee for Zaan anyways.

malistorr

Most mag characters are not in melee range because of the light armor and range dps that they're intended to be. That immediately throws out just about all of what you suggested but thank you for the comments anyway. I heavy attack from far away and there are much better sets than Zaan for that. Even if I was going to stay close I'd probably use Grothdar instead. And I don't use a lot of the skills you mentioned.

This post is starting to go pretty far off topic so I'm going to abandon it and just hope that they reverse the horrible decision about changing the proc condition that used to be using a magic based skill for Undaunted Infiltrator to using a stam skill.
For now I'll just trap because I have no choice to otherwise play the way I want to and make it a viable play style. I really which this company would stop trying to force everyone into LA weaving and using just a few sets to be able to pass end game content. Oh well, I guess expecting intelligent and common sense decisions can't be expected these days.