Cloak needs to loose invisibility

starlizard70ub17_ESO

visionality wrote: »

No.

Cloak is THE defining ability for NBs. I would wish for a better un-cloaking skill though. Isnt it strange that the only class that has a reliable skill to prevent NBs from cloaking for a relevant amount of time are NBs themselves?

As the old saying goes, "It takes a thief to catch a thief."
Think of it as ESO's version of Mad's Spy vs. Spy.


I barely use cloak now, and only on my MagNB. Take away the invis capability and I'd drop the skill completely for something useful.

paulychan

Rule 1 when battling a nb using cloak... don't be a potato. I'm a bomber, I get caught and murdered all the time. It's not as easy as you may think to rely on a 3 second invis from which you can easily be pulled from/ exposed. Take away cloak and I'll still sneak and use pots and I'll use those to bomb, gank, reset fights and lure potatoes to their doom...

Now, If you die chasing said nb around a rock or in a tower... that's 100% on you mr potato. Or if you are lured away from the cozy nest of your zerg to die, cold and alone, next to some rock in an empty field... that's on you

montjie

Few hours ago I hopped back on eso after a months break to check out the new patch.
PC-EU Ravenwatch, all factions were @ 3 bar at the time of recording. Abilities already were delayed in certain situations. Found myself a great example of what I was talking about earlier.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppHUqUnxsnA

This happens regularly and the server isnt even severly lagging yet. I cant recall seeing someone that popped an invis pot teleport like that in my time of playing. However with cloakspammers you can pretty much count on this happening which makes me think its related to them spamming the ability. At a certain point i just gave up and decided to drop a leap on him. In general I dont like how leap snares/roots its targets but ngl its useful against these type of teleporting cloakspammers.

Also the amount of times he spammed cloak at the end....But yeah, nothing wrong with cloak

Sanctum74

montjie wrote: »

Few hours ago I hopped back on eso after a months break to check out the new patch.
PC-EU Ravenwatch, all factions were @ 3 bar at the time of recording. Abilities already were delayed in certain situations. Found myself a great example of what I was talking about earlier.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppHUqUnxsnA

This happens regularly and the server isnt even severly lagging yet. I cant recall seeing someone that popped an invis pot teleport like that in my time of playing. However with cloakspammers you can pretty much count on this happening which makes me think its related to them spamming the ability. At a certain point i just gave up and decided to drop a leap on him. In general I dont like how leap snares/roots its targets but ngl its useful against these type of teleporting cloakspammers.

Also the amount of times he spammed cloak at the end....But yeah, nothing wrong with cloak

Nothing wrong with cloak at all as shown in your video. You used counters and killed him, thats balance.

ManDraKE

@montjie you can experience the same thing with a target outside of cloak tbh, you can be sprinting next to your target swinging your weapons at the air and not getting a single hit, despite being clearly at range. Is probably related to a desync of the player position beetwen the server and your client, that gets exacerbated by lag (takes to long to get the updated player position from the server, so you see "jumps" on your screen). I had instances of players being pretty much unhittable unless they stand still, as long as they were moving/sprinting is was imposible to hit them. And you can clearly verify that is a bug because after they die once, you can hit them normaly again. There are a lot of wired stuff going on with players position being out-of-sync with the server, and is very noticable with single target skills like surprise attack or the 2H executioner

ealdwin

ManDraKE wrote: »

@montjie you can experience the same thing with a target outside of cloak tbh, you can be sprinting next to your target swinging your weapons at the air and not getting a single hit, despite being clearly at range. Is probably related to a desync of the player position beetwen the server and your client, that gets exacerbated by lag (takes to long to get the updated player position from the server, so you see "jumps" on your screen). I had instances of players being pretty much unhittable unless they stand still, as long as they were moving/sprinting is was imposible to hit them. And you can clearly verify that is a bug because after they die once, you can hit them normaly again. There are a lot of wired stuff going on with players position being out-of-sync with the server, and is very noticable with single target skills like surprise attack or the 2H executioner

Agreed. There does seem to be something off with targeting right now. I was in BG's yesterday and was fighting in melee range, and every ability that relied on a target refused to fire. I was on my Templar at the time, and Toppling Charge seemed to be the biggest culprit. Later in the evening on my NB, Surprise Attack had trouble connecting. A bug with the syncing of player position very much make sense.

As far as OP's suggestion. Invisibility is perfectly fine. It's part of class identity that lends towards a unique playstyle that adds diversity between classes.

Bergzorn

montjie wrote: »

Invisibility the way Zos implements it in this game is dumb and has no real place in any pvp environment thats looking for balance. Cloak, an instant spammable that makes you invisible, is even more stupid. Such a powerful ability without a single downside to it other than it costs resources. Theres not even a fatigue system linked to it.

Agree with this.

NBs are not in a good spot atm and I'm not asking to just take Cloak away from them. But the implementation of stealth in this game, both Cloak and 'crouch', is totally lopsided.

montjie

ManDraKE wrote: »

@montjie you can experience the same thing with a target outside of cloak tbh, you can be sprinting next to your target swinging your weapons at the air and not getting a single hit, despite being clearly at range. Is probably related to a desync of the player position beetwen the server and your client, that gets exacerbated by lag (takes to long to get the updated player position from the server, so you see "jumps" on your screen). I had instances of players being pretty much unhittable unless they stand still, as long as they were moving/sprinting is was imposible to hit them. And you can clearly verify that is a bug because after they die once, you can hit them normaly again. There are a lot of wired stuff going on with players position being out-of-sync with the server, and is very noticable with single target skills like surprise attack or the 2H executioner

Youre right.
Why I included this clip is I believe cloak, or the spamming of it, increases this effect. Thats 1 of the reasons why I said cloak is stupid especially in these current laggy situations.

Bergzorn wrote: »

montjie wrote: »

Invisibility the way Zos implements it in this game is dumb and has no real place in any pvp environment thats looking for balance. Cloak, an instant spammable that makes you invisible, is even more stupid. Such a powerful ability without a single downside to it other than it costs resources. Theres not even a fatigue system linked to it.

Agree with this.

NBs are not in a good spot atm and I'm not asking to just take Cloak away from them. But the implementation of stealth in this game, both Cloak and 'crouch', is totally lopsided.

Same, im totally fine with them having their 'rogue assassin' type of gameplay and cloak/stealth how it currently is is imo no problem for pve. But for pvp there just has to be more checks nd balances if you want to implement something as powerful as that.

@Sanctum74
If you see balance in that then uhm yeah, dunno what else to say....

technohic

montjie wrote: »

Few hours ago I hopped back on eso after a months break to check out the new patch.
PC-EU Ravenwatch, all factions were @ 3 bar at the time of recording. Abilities already were delayed in certain situations. Found myself a great example of what I was talking about earlier.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppHUqUnxsnA

This happens regularly and the server isnt even severly lagging yet. I cant recall seeing someone that popped an invis pot teleport like that in my time of playing. However with cloakspammers you can pretty much count on this happening which makes me think its related to them spamming the ability. At a certain point i just gave up and decided to drop a leap on him. In general I dont like how leap snares/roots its targets but ngl its useful against these type of teleporting cloakspammers.

Also the amount of times he spammed cloak at the end....But yeah, nothing wrong with cloak

Its frustrating because of performance. Would be down on my list compared to when I try to use leap myself when it is really laggy and wind up not able to activate abilities for 30 seconds or more from desync.

I do think people are taking advantage of this with cloak and speed, but the issue is not with cloak itself.

SshadowSscale

montjie wrote: »

Few hours ago I hopped back on eso after a months break to check out the new patch.
PC-EU Ravenwatch, all factions were @ 3 bar at the time of recording. Abilities already were delayed in certain situations. Found myself a great example of what I was talking about earlier.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppHUqUnxsnA

This happens regularly and the server isnt even severly lagging yet. I cant recall seeing someone that popped an invis pot teleport like that in my time of playing. However with cloakspammers you can pretty much count on this happening which makes me think its related to them spamming the ability. At a certain point i just gave up and decided to drop a leap on him. In general I dont like how leap snares/roots its targets but ngl its useful against these type of teleporting cloakspammers.

Also the amount of times he spammed cloak at the end....But yeah, nothing wrong with cloak

The only thing I am seeing is a mb being hard countered and then dying because he/she could not escape.... That vid only proves how easy it is to deal with a cloaking nb......So I see balanced gameplay in that vid.... The nightblade used his ability you used a counter and the nightblade reacted poorly to the counter and thus you won the fight..... And that also shows you what it will be like to play a nb after they remove cloak.... Only diffrence is that atm the opponent needs half a brain cell to use some sort of counter where if you remove cloak nb will be the easiest class to kill in pvp.... Oh wait nbs are already the easiest class to kill....

Fawn4287

montjie wrote: »

Few hours ago I hopped back on eso after a months break to check out the new patch.
PC-EU Ravenwatch, all factions were @ 3 bar at the time of recording. Abilities already were delayed in certain situations. Found myself a great example of what I was talking about earlier.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppHUqUnxsnA

This happens regularly and the server isnt even severly lagging yet. I cant recall seeing someone that popped an invis pot teleport like that in my time of playing. However with cloakspammers you can pretty much count on this happening which makes me think its related to them spamming the ability. At a certain point i just gave up and decided to drop a leap on him. In general I dont like how leap snares/roots its targets but ngl its useful against these type of teleporting cloakspammers.

Also the amount of times he spammed cloak at the end....But yeah, nothing wrong with cloak

This exact occurrence is one of the reasons I made this post, people always blurt out “EvEr HeArD oF dEtEcT PoTs!?!?”, yes I have and I use them, however what happens in this video is very often the result. To top that off, detect in a potion can’t be used alongside regen buffing, so whilst you stand there d swinging at a target that moved basically out of range of detect, they can pop a tri pot and go hard on the offensive, 1. knowing you can’t stealth detect for another 30 seconds and 2. Knowing you now lack a potion based panic heal.

ExistingRug61

Fawn4287 wrote: »

Hämähäkki wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

I’m not dying to nightblades, the issue is that even terrible nightblade players will have several dots on them, be heavily in execute then cloak half a dozen times, pop a tri pot, rinse and repeat every time you ulti and get them low, turning fights that should be over in 30 seconds in a 10 minute long ordeal purely because of 1 skill.

How is this different to any other class that when built with a strong defensive capability can also basically stall a fight indefinitely if they choose? This is how nightblades defend, its just a different way to a lot of other classes do, such as block healing or shields.

The thing that I find interesting is that people tend to react differently to nightblades escaping death with cloak vs other defences.
ie:
When a player gets their opponent down to 20% health say but then that opponent escape with cloak then the player feels like they should have won and got the kill and that the nightblade has survived based on a crutch/overpowered skill etc.
vs
When a player gets their opponent down to 20% health say but then that opponent just block heals to full health the player instead is more like "oh that's a strong build fair play".
But in reality how is it different? In both cases the opponent used their defensive abilities to prevent death.
One difference I see is that in the second case you may be able to overcome the defensive ability simply with more damage/offence, which players are generally happy to try to put in their builds, whereas in the first case you instead need on of the (numerous) counters to cloak, and perhaps players don't like adjusting their build to suit their opponents.

Fawn4287 wrote: »

Then if a nightblade just decides “the rest of my groups be clapped, time to dip” they can just leave and drop camps, meaning groups can just instantly keep coming back.

In my opinion, this is one of the tactical advantages a nightblade brings to a group in Cyrodiil. Different classes bring different things, and as far as I'm concerned that's a good thing. And all of these things can be countered with opposing tactics.

As for the counter argument that says "but if I have to slot detection pots to counter the nightblade I have given up my potion so am at a disadvantage". Well you know what? In order to be able to cloak like that the nightblade has probably given up either defence or offence to have enough regen to cloak that many times, as well as being locked out of their class self heal. So in a straight up fight without cloak they are likely already at a disadvantage.

Now a more general point.
There are many players out there, obviously myself included, who very much enjoy being able to use cloak in pvp and pve scenarios as it provides quite a different play experience and open up tactical options that aren't available without it. I enjoy it not because its powerful, but rather because its different and, to use ZOS's term, fulfills my "power fantasy". Many of us only play nightblades and may not actually play the game anywhere near as much without them.
So what this thread is asking for is to change the game so that players who have a difficult time dealing with 1 spec out of many get to have that difficulty removed, but at the expense of potentially driving the players who specifically enjoy that spec's playstyle completely out of the game. Surely that is bad for the game as a whole.

If it is the case that nightblades are too strong, either offensively or defensively (I don't really think they are though, at least in the case of magNB), then by all means adjustments may be required either in the form of skill changes on nightblades or changes to counters. And if there are issues with counters due to lag or performance, then this should be addressed via improvements to performance so those counters work as intended. But in my opinion to remove invisibility is a step too far, and would fundamentally change the class for the negative and be harmful to the game.

Mobius0

Let's just remove variety and playstyles, and give everyone nothing but baseball bats, and they can either block or heavy attack, and nothing else.

Or you can use one of the 500 thousand ways to break cloak, and pwn them because they just lost their only good defense and are otherwise paper because they have been nerfed so hard.

Heck, you can even use invis and/or crouch yourself, since it's literally available to everyone!

Seriously, if you hate cloak SO much, seriously just slot for killing them and feel good about yourself.

mikey_reach

Or instead of asking for unnecessary nerf why don’t you buff you skills as a player instead.

idk

paulychan wrote: »

Rule 1 when battling a nb using cloak... don't be a potato. I'm a bomber, I get caught and murdered all the time. It's not as easy as you may think to rely on a 3 second invis from which you can easily be pulled from/ exposed. Take away cloak and I'll still sneak and use pots and I'll use those to bomb, gank, reset fights and lure potatoes to their doom...

Now, If you die chasing said nb around a rock or in a tower... that's 100% on you mr potato. Or if you are lured away from the cozy nest of your zerg to die, cold and alone, next to some rock in an empty field... that's on you

Exactly. A group with a half-decent leader will have at least one person out of their 4-6 players running something to pull players out of cloak. Even when I run solo I often have something to pull players out of cloak. Granted, a skilled player is not a one-trick-pony and can still evade via other means but I have yet to see a player win every battle every time against all players.

There are a number of hard and soft counters to cloak. Find what works best for you and learn to use it. When that happens those NBs will have not have such an easy time escaping.

erio

Are nightblades strong? Yes. Should we take away one of their primary form of defense because you dont know how to play around it? No.

Spearpoint

No.

Crow_IX

I would stand by some of this if venomous smite and other proc sets didn't exist, however since they do, cloak is really the only way around it. Personally I use dark cloak and i hate nbs who spam shadow disguise and run from fights but really there are only 2 things you can do. Ignore the bad nb based off the dmg they've dealt to you, assuming they didn't hit to hard thats when you know you can ignore them and fight them later. Or you can stand right on top of them the whole time, which means you need to have a good read on the nb you're fighting, so that way you can drag them out of stealth almost instantly.

Cloak is super annoying to deal with and what's worse is most nbs aren't very good and just get away a majority of the time. It is by every means an abused tool, but unfortunately there are a lot of things zos wants to do to support the not so talented players and make them not feel so under powered but rather on fair grounds, which in an mmo isn't balance but imbalance and causes a lot of frustration.

For now we just have to work with it unfortunately.

Crow_IX

Khatou wrote: »

if you don't know how to play in front of an assassin, stop playing PVP

you're not an assassin, you're scared to fight so you run away. you're also scared to fight solo. there is a difference. the old ways of the nb were more assassin like when nbs would jump in, stand their ground for a kill, confirm the kill, then cloak for a brief moment to gain a new target, not run away after a single gank fail.

Fawn4287

Crow_IX wrote: »

Khatou wrote: »

if you don't know how to play in front of an assassin, stop playing PVP

you're not an assassin, you're scared to fight so you run away. you're also scared to fight solo. there is a difference. the old ways of the nb were more assassin like when nbs would jump in, stand their ground for a kill, confirm the kill, then cloak for a brief moment to gain a new target, not run away after a single gank fail.

The type of player who dodge rolls until out of stam once marked

pauld1_ESO

montjie wrote: »

Few hours ago I hopped back on eso after a months break to check out the new patch.
PC-EU Ravenwatch, all factions were @ 3 bar at the time of recording. Abilities already were delayed in certain situations. Found myself a great example of what I was talking about earlier.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppHUqUnxsnA

This happens regularly and the server isnt even severly lagging yet. I cant recall seeing someone that popped an invis pot teleport like that in my time of playing. However with cloakspammers you can pretty much count on this happening which makes me think its related to them spamming the ability. At a certain point i just gave up and decided to drop a leap on him. In general I dont like how leap snares/roots its targets but ngl its useful against these type of teleporting cloakspammers.

Also the amount of times he spammed cloak at the end....But yeah, nothing wrong with cloak

Wait a minute.....you killed the guy seconds and didn't lose even 1 point of health in the process...and there is something wrong with cloak? You sound like a cop who is mad he had to run to catch the bad guy.

pauld1_ESO

Crow_IX wrote: »

Khatou wrote: »

if you don't know how to play in front of an assassin, stop playing PVP

you're not an assassin, you're scared to fight so you run away. you're also scared to fight solo. there is a difference. the old ways of the nb were more assassin like when nbs would jump in, stand their ground for a kill, confirm the kill, then cloak for a brief moment to gain a new target, not run away after a single gank fail.

"Scared to fight solo"? ROFL. You know this is a game right? You know there is absolutely no penalty for dying...right? I have been in real combat...like you can die combat in real life. You really think I play a stealth-based NB because I am "scared"? Scared of what exactly? What is the penalty? Laughable. ROFL laughable.

Let me tell you why I play this style...and it is a style. It is exciting. I am squishy AF and if I get caught I die, period. The thrill of picking out one target to drop and try to escape alive is fun. It's fun to have multiple people hunting me down, and rewarding when I escape...and I don't always escape. I like being a scout and watching enemies actions and directions and reporting it to my faction so they know where they are going. That's rewarding to me. Oh yea...I was a 19D Cav Scout in the Army so imagine me enjoying the safety of doing it in a game where I can't actually die!

So maybe its you guys who play the tanky Warden's that still have the offense to kill multiple people while you LOS around rocks that play it safe. I can't kill you if you're any good on a tanky Stamden or DK, I don't even bother trying most of the time. So to me these are the ones playing it safe buddy.

ThePianist

Just go Cloakblade+ Engine Guardian to *** people off more.

The reason you’re missing your skills and attacks on a NB that just popped out of cloak, is because they dodge rolled before popping out of cloak.

Some gankblades do run Crusader set. 5 items: Increases the duration of the dodge chance bonus of Roll Dodge by 0.3 seconds.

“0.3 seconds” is a big window for a NB to dodge a lot of attacks, and a big window to dodge 1-2 dizzy swings.

Cloakblade vs Cloakblade is like a knife fight in a tollbooth, that’s how stressful it is. But I wouldn’t call for nerfs.

If every NB used Shadow image to kite and escape instead of Cloak, there would be an outcry for “oMg wE nEeD AnTi-tElEpOrT pOtS pLz”

montjie

Sanctum74 wrote: »

montjie wrote: »

Few hours ago I hopped back on eso after a months break to check out the new patch.
PC-EU Ravenwatch, all factions were @ 3 bar at the time of recording. Abilities already were delayed in certain situations. Found myself a great example of what I was talking about earlier.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppHUqUnxsnA

This happens regularly and the server isnt even severly lagging yet. I cant recall seeing someone that popped an invis pot teleport like that in my time of playing. However with cloakspammers you can pretty much count on this happening which makes me think its related to them spamming the ability. At a certain point i just gave up and decided to drop a leap on him. In general I dont like how leap snares/roots its targets but ngl its useful against these type of teleporting cloakspammers.

Also the amount of times he spammed cloak at the end....But yeah, nothing wrong with cloak

Nothing wrong with cloak at all as shown in your video. You used counters and killed him, thats balance.

Actually thats not balance. The amount of effort both parties put in determine the balance.
1 side has to anticipate lag with regards to positioning etc, gimp itself by using nonconventional potions lets keep this one up for debate because mag toons do have a resource buff detect pot, has to decide to either stick on its target by dedicating every gcd to keeping the target visible or let its target go in order to keep buffs up.
Meanwhile the other side just has to walk and repeatedly press the same button. But yeah I killed him so its balanced.....
Thats like calling a footrace balanced because the guy with 1 foot beat a guy with 2 feet. Where do you guys get this logic from.

SshadowSscale wrote: »

montjie wrote: »

Few hours ago I hopped back on eso after a months break to check out the new patch.
PC-EU Ravenwatch, all factions were @ 3 bar at the time of recording. Abilities already were delayed in certain situations. Found myself a great example of what I was talking about earlier.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppHUqUnxsnA

This happens regularly and the server isnt even severly lagging yet. I cant recall seeing someone that popped an invis pot teleport like that in my time of playing. However with cloakspammers you can pretty much count on this happening which makes me think its related to them spamming the ability. At a certain point i just gave up and decided to drop a leap on him. In general I dont like how leap snares/roots its targets but ngl its useful against these type of teleporting cloakspammers.

Also the amount of times he spammed cloak at the end....But yeah, nothing wrong with cloak

The only thing I am seeing is a mb being hard countered and then dying because he/she could not escape.... That vid only proves how easy it is to deal with a cloaking nb......So I see balanced gameplay in that vid.... The nightblade used his ability you used a counter and the nightblade reacted poorly to the counter and thus you won the fight..... And that also shows you what it will be like to play a nb after they remove cloak.... Only diffrence is that atm the opponent needs half a brain cell to use some sort of counter where if you remove cloak nb will be the easiest class to kill in pvp.... Oh wait nbs are already the easiest class to kill....

Not quite. The nightblade in this clip obviously was bad. Not once did he try to heal or go offensive but I guess thats what happens when you have something like cloak to crutch on. If he knocked me back/stunned me he could have made a clean escape. Despite how many times bad players say it, its still not a fact that a nightblade cant defend itself without cloak. Bad nightblades cant. I hope someday youll see the irony of your words

pauld1_ESO wrote: »

montjie wrote: »

Few hours ago I hopped back on eso after a months break to check out the new patch.
PC-EU Ravenwatch, all factions were @ 3 bar at the time of recording. Abilities already were delayed in certain situations. Found myself a great example of what I was talking about earlier.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppHUqUnxsnA

This happens regularly and the server isnt even severly lagging yet. I cant recall seeing someone that popped an invis pot teleport like that in my time of playing. However with cloakspammers you can pretty much count on this happening which makes me think its related to them spamming the ability. At a certain point i just gave up and decided to drop a leap on him. In general I dont like how leap snares/roots its targets but ngl its useful against these type of teleporting cloakspammers.

Also the amount of times he spammed cloak at the end....But yeah, nothing wrong with cloak

Wait a minute.....you killed the guy seconds and didn't lose even 1 point of health in the process...and there is something wrong with cloak? You sound like a cop who is mad he had to run to catch the bad guy.

Aaaand another one.
To correct your analogy:
Id be a cop mad I had to catch spiderman swinging building to building while me being on foot.


I dont know if its inexperience or a case of intentionally keeping your eyes wide shut but theres a notion in this thread that somehow if the nightblade dies all other factors go out the window and everything is balanced. The level of mental gymnastics one has to do to make this make sense is olympic. The fact he died just means hes a bad player/didnt play that situation well.
An emperor/empress can still get killed by another player with normal stats if he/she doesnt play his/her character right. Does that mean its a balanced fight because he/she died in said fight? No ofcourse not.

Defilted

No

montjie

pauld1_ESO wrote: »

Crow_IX wrote: »

Khatou wrote: »

if you don't know how to play in front of an assassin, stop playing PVP

you're not an assassin, you're scared to fight so you run away. you're also scared to fight solo. there is a difference. the old ways of the nb were more assassin like when nbs would jump in, stand their ground for a kill, confirm the kill, then cloak for a brief moment to gain a new target, not run away after a single gank fail.

"Scared to fight solo"? ROFL. You know this is a game right? You know there is absolutely no penalty for dying...right? I have been in real combat...like you can die combat in real life. You really think I play a stealth-based NB because I am "scared"? Scared of what exactly? What is the penalty? Laughable. ROFL laughable.

Let me tell you why I play this style...and it is a style. It is exciting. I am squishy AF and if I get caught I die, period. The thrill of picking out one target to drop and try to escape alive is fun. It's fun to have multiple people hunting me down, and rewarding when I escape...and I don't always escape. I like being a scout and watching enemies actions and directions and reporting it to my faction so they know where they are going. That's rewarding to me. Oh yea...I was a 19D Cav Scout in the Army so imagine me enjoying the safety of doing it in a game where I can't actually die!

So maybe its you guys who play the tanky Warden's that still have the offense to kill multiple people while you LOS around rocks that play it safe. I can't kill you if you're any good on a tanky Stamden or DK, I don't even bother trying most of the time. So to me these are the ones playing it safe buddy.

Your nightblade is probably tankier than my 'tanky' dk because other than bloodspawn I have zero investments in armor and/or percentage based damage reduction. My dk running a 6m1h, 2h bow build doesnt have an abracadabra button to safely get me out of sticky situations like your nb has tho
I do get what youre saying about it being exciting. Thats exactly why I do it too (or try to). The difference between you and me is there where you can just poof your way to safety and escape. Im forced to fight it out or really outplay my opponents in order to survive/escape.
So nahh. If you want an easy means to escape sticky situations I guess thats your prerogative but lets not pretend you NEED to be a cloaker in order to play the scenarios you like to play. Because thats simply not true
And who gives a flying f about your real life honestly? Weird flex bro

Mobius0

I've played like 500 different MMOs and I can think of like two that don't have cloak mechanics.

You know what I do when someone cloaks? I immediately AoE and what do you know, there they are! So easy it's actually a bit sad.

Then I could slot one of the MANY skills available to me for breaking invis. It's so simple, why does this thread even exist? You literally press one button and bye bye cloak. It's so easy my grandma could do it.

AMeanOne

People are still complaining about cloak in 2020? Not a good look

Fawn4287

montjie wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

montjie wrote: »

Few hours ago I hopped back on eso after a months break to check out the new patch.
PC-EU Ravenwatch, all factions were @ 3 bar at the time of recording. Abilities already were delayed in certain situations. Found myself a great example of what I was talking about earlier.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppHUqUnxsnA

This happens regularly and the server isnt even severly lagging yet. I cant recall seeing someone that popped an invis pot teleport like that in my time of playing. However with cloakspammers you can pretty much count on this happening which makes me think its related to them spamming the ability. At a certain point i just gave up and decided to drop a leap on him. In general I dont like how leap snares/roots its targets but ngl its useful against these type of teleporting cloakspammers.

Also the amount of times he spammed cloak at the end....But yeah, nothing wrong with cloak

Nothing wrong with cloak at all as shown in your video. You used counters and killed him, thats balance.

Actually thats not balance. The amount of effort both parties put in determine the balance.
1 side has to anticipate lag with regards to positioning etc, gimp itself by using nonconventional potions lets keep this one up for debate because mag toons do have a resource buff detect pot, has to decide to either stick on its target by dedicating every gcd to keeping the target visible or let its target go in order to keep buffs up.
Meanwhile the other side just has to walk and repeatedly press the same button. But yeah I killed him so its balanced.....
Thats like calling a footrace balanced because the guy with 1 foot beat a guy with 2 feet. Where do you guys get this logic from.

SshadowSscale wrote: »

montjie wrote: »

Few hours ago I hopped back on eso after a months break to check out the new patch.
PC-EU Ravenwatch, all factions were @ 3 bar at the time of recording. Abilities already were delayed in certain situations. Found myself a great example of what I was talking about earlier.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppHUqUnxsnA

This happens regularly and the server isnt even severly lagging yet. I cant recall seeing someone that popped an invis pot teleport like that in my time of playing. However with cloakspammers you can pretty much count on this happening which makes me think its related to them spamming the ability. At a certain point i just gave up and decided to drop a leap on him. In general I dont like how leap snares/roots its targets but ngl its useful against these type of teleporting cloakspammers.

Also the amount of times he spammed cloak at the end....But yeah, nothing wrong with cloak

The only thing I am seeing is a mb being hard countered and then dying because he/she could not escape.... That vid only proves how easy it is to deal with a cloaking nb......So I see balanced gameplay in that vid.... The nightblade used his ability you used a counter and the nightblade reacted poorly to the counter and thus you won the fight..... And that also shows you what it will be like to play a nb after they remove cloak.... Only diffrence is that atm the opponent needs half a brain cell to use some sort of counter where if you remove cloak nb will be the easiest class to kill in pvp.... Oh wait nbs are already the easiest class to kill....

Not quite. The nightblade in this clip obviously was bad. Not once did he try to heal or go offensive but I guess thats what happens when you have something like cloak to crutch on. If he knocked me back/stunned me he could have made a clean escape. Despite how many times bad players say it, its still not a fact that a nightblade cant defend itself without cloak. Bad nightblades cant. I hope someday youll see the irony of your words

pauld1_ESO wrote: »

montjie wrote: »

Few hours ago I hopped back on eso after a months break to check out the new patch.
PC-EU Ravenwatch, all factions were @ 3 bar at the time of recording. Abilities already were delayed in certain situations. Found myself a great example of what I was talking about earlier.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppHUqUnxsnA

This happens regularly and the server isnt even severly lagging yet. I cant recall seeing someone that popped an invis pot teleport like that in my time of playing. However with cloakspammers you can pretty much count on this happening which makes me think its related to them spamming the ability. At a certain point i just gave up and decided to drop a leap on him. In general I dont like how leap snares/roots its targets but ngl its useful against these type of teleporting cloakspammers.

Also the amount of times he spammed cloak at the end....But yeah, nothing wrong with cloak

Wait a minute.....you killed the guy seconds and didn't lose even 1 point of health in the process...and there is something wrong with cloak? You sound like a cop who is mad he had to run to catch the bad guy.

Aaaand another one.
To correct your analogy:
Id be a cop mad I had to catch spiderman swinging building to building while me being on foot.


I dont know if its inexperience or a case of intentionally keeping your eyes wide shut but theres a notion in this thread that somehow if the nightblade dies all other factors go out the window and everything is balanced. The level of mental gymnastics one has to do to make this make sense is olympic. The fact he died just means hes a bad player/didnt play that situation well.
An emperor/empress can still get killed by another player with normal stats if he/she doesnt play his/her character right. Does that mean its a balanced fight because he/she died in said fight? No ofcourse not.

The major difference is that the DK is a far better and more experienced player, however that nightblade would happily run around with probably 3 offensive sets, with little to no clue whatsoever on how to deal with that pressure on any other class thanks to his ez mode get out of dodge skill. This is the problem, which other class can comfortably run around solo without a defensive set other than a magsorc or a stamblade? People seriously underplay how incredibly powerful one disengagement skill performs. A good nightblade runs 3 offensive sets, has minor maim that essentially can’t be cleaned with immense get out of dodge potential on 1 shade, cloak which allows for total fight engagement/disengagement control, get major resistance buffs for using any ability in the shadow tree, freeing up barspace, the bar space to comfortably run an unblockable CC, an incredibly cheap ultimate that if landed with the bow(The hardest hitting singe target non ult skill) is a kill on 90% of the playerbase. People will always come to complain about “stamblade lacks this or that“, but run around and especially in the sewers and you will see its an incredibly popular class regardless how badly nightblade players insists their class feels.

Mobius0

Any class can use invis pots. Any class can also reach max speed and LoS hide. Every class can stealth and stealth gank.