ESO pvp is now pay to win game

thegreat_one

Looks like in order to level the playing field I need to spend money, or these ppl with MYTHIC items (broken af) will have the upper hand.
I though EA was bad but Zos Will do anything for money

nukk3r

Here we go again. This is not P2W. These items aren't even that good.

Kiralyn2000

Expansion doesn't have any improved gear: "Why would I waste my money on this, everything's useless!"

Expansion has improved gear: "OMG, p2w!"

edit: of course, MMOs that increase their level cap don't have this problem, because without the expansion you just get frozen out of PvP in the first place. And if you do get the expansion, you have to replace all of your gear anyway.

Dusk_Coven

Old news.
Players have been buying fully unlocked skill lines and skill points from the cash shop for months to dominate lowbie PvP.
And you wanna complain about an item that you have to grind in PvE for?

Pauwer

I still do fine without them (pvp). I wanted the snow shoes and read where the leads drop and for few days went and killed world bosses here and random monsters there but not a single lead was dropped, so i just gave up. I can still kill and die as before. Can't be bothered to find them.

Jeremy

thegreat_one wrote: »

Looks like in order to level the playing field I need to spend money, or these ppl with MYTHIC items (broken af) will have the upper hand.
I though EA was bad but Zos Will do anything for money

If that's pay to win then literally any game that doesn't have free expansions is pay to win..

World of Warcraft is pay to win.

Lord of the Rings Online is pay to win.

Final Fantasy 14 is pay to win.

I could go on, but I think you get the idea.

Thannazzar

ESO is pay for convenience only. Or in the case of the re-vamp inconvenience.

Expansions do not count as PTW.

Dovakhan

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Old news.
Players have been buying fully unlocked skill lines and skill points from the cash shop for months to dominate lowbie PvP.
And you wanna complain about an item that you have to grind in PvE for?

You've to fully unlock them first playing the normal way. And I totally fail to see how any skill line "dominates lowbie PvP's", especially when they can and have to do exactly the same.

Ghettokid

But Orc is over now
Orc keeps me comin' back for Orc

Orc, you're all that I want
When you're lyin' here in my arms
I'm findin' Orc hard to believe
We're in Orsinium

And Orc is all that I need
And I found it there in Orc's heart
Orc isn't too hard to see
We're in Orsinium

kargen27

Dovakhan wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Old news.
Players have been buying fully unlocked skill lines and skill points from the cash shop for months to dominate lowbie PvP.
And you wanna complain about an item that you have to grind in PvE for?

You've to fully unlock them first playing the normal way. And I totally fail to see how any skill line "dominates lowbie PvP's", especially when they can and have to do exactly the same.

A new player has only the one character they are playing on. They will not have all the skills advanced. A player with at least one character fully loaded with all the skills can start a new character and load them up giving them advantage over new players. They of course also have the advantage of experience so it can create a large discrepancy in ability to win a fight.

A players first introduction to PvP is often on that first character and meeting a character that has all the skills (and probably golded out gear) is a bad experience. This bad experience could keep them from trying PvP again. There are players that create a character to get into the low level PvP then as soon as the character reaches 50 they delete it and go again. No idea how many also purchase skill lines again but either way they can dominate players new to the game.

Fur_like_snow

Pretty sure Z is aware of that market and added buyable skill lines to the crown store with those players in mind.

As for the mythics yeah a few are useful maybe more so next patch.

lozq

So ZOS should adopt a model in which expansions/DLCs don't actually contain any new content?

Interesting proposition.

Hämähäkki

The question I am asking myself is: Is it a P2W issue or maybe a L2P issue?

Firstmep

Where did this notion, that item from an expansion in an mmo are p2w?
You would really hate Wow, where every expac makes old gear 100% obsolete on the first day.
Eso on the other hand allows older gear to be used, and come next patch a lot of older sets are being buffed to more modern standards, not just procsets.
You absolutely do not need mythics to compete, and even if you did, so what?
You are not outright buying the items, you actually have to earn then ingame.

If you wanna complain about something, complain about expansion classes being better designed than base game ones.

volkeswagon

Are you saying it's pay to win because people who bought the expansion have access to gear that those with the base game don't?

Daemons_Bane

I might be old, but "in my days" P2W meant buying something that gave you an edge, which you could not possibly get for yourself ingame.. Expansions are a natural part of a games development, and of course they will contain new gear.. If that was not the case, we would have been stuck with the items that came with the base game, with no new gear ever

BigBragg

With warden and necros on the crown store, better gear in new chapters and DLCs, sure it is pay to win like very other mmo. That is presuming two equally skilled players match up. End of the day, the margins are slim. Better players in skill and game knowledge will have the edge regardless.

Daemons_Bane

I guess P2W is just not the same anymore.. I see no P2W elements in eso.. I have absolutely no trouble with them getting money from their expansions.. They need to get income, to make new content.. That is not P2W..

Saubon

This again? Buing expansions to get new content and new gear is old mmo bussiness model, just few ESO players decided to call i P2W because it is the easiest excuse for not paying for the game they like.

In other mmos you are almost unable to play endgame content without paying for expansions, both in pve and pvp and noone calls it P2W

TwinLamps

Cant say I disagree, as someone with chapter.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

nukk3r wrote: »

Here we go again. This is not P2W. These items aren't even that good.

Incorrect. Mythic items are BiS for a lot of builds in PVP.

OlumoGarbag

nukk3r wrote: »

Here we go again. This is not P2W. These items aren't even that good.

Lol k
Its not like malacath band of brutality outperforms on literally any build in no-cp.
Torc is good the rest is meh.

gatekeeper13

Mythic items are my least concern when there are free items like Engine Guardian set.

This is Cyro pvp right now.

OlumoGarbag

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

Mythic items are my least concern when there are free items like Engine Guardian set.

This is Cyro pvp right now.

You know you can bash engine guardian right?

Weesacs

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

Mythic items are my least concern when there are free items like Engine Guardian set.

This is Cyro pvp right now.

You know you can bash engine guardian right?

Yeah, spending the whole fight bashing the EG while the EG user stands behind it picking you off sounds like a plan.

EG is broken and needs fixed.

L_Nici

The only mythic Item that is really annoying, is the Speedring. But since that is mainly used by people who rather run than fight its only impact would be wasting my time by chasing it, can't even catch that stupid NBs who are using it with my Stamsorc...

Malacaths Ring is only strong if you have less than 40% Critrate without it, because after 40% you deal more damage on average by critting frequently.

Stranglers are used by Magsorcs that try to Overload gank, if you didn't die to them before Greymoor you won't now, only if you already died before you die even faster now.

The other mythics are basically not used in Cyro, some people have build around the Torques thing, but thats pretty specialized.

Also there are many people who are not using them at all (I don't for example even though I could, they just don't fit my builds), the claim it would be BiS is just not true you can get pretty similar results with the normal 5, 5, 2 Setcombination. The only mythic you can actually call BiS is Malacaths ring and that only if your char has lower than 40% Critrate.

Grianasteri

thegreat_one wrote: »

Looks like in order to level the playing field I need to spend money, or these ppl with MYTHIC items (broken af) will have the upper hand.
I though EA was bad but Zos Will do anything for money

Ive not purchased the latest DLC, I just don't need it right now, I have enough to enjoy with other content still (In fact I am busy levelling my latest PVP character). So Im not scrying, I have no mythic weapons, and I am still enjoying PVP when I play.

You are not going to get away from the fact that ESO is going to release several DLC per year, & that's what paying customers (like me & many others, want & need). Get over it. Yes it can be frustrating if stuff you want is in the DLC, but this is no different to any other such game.

In my opinion, the mythic items are not an example of pay to win. Perfectly viable builds & pvp performance is available without them.

OlumoGarbag

Where do you even get those numbers from?
You know people run impen+base crit resist + CP crit resist?
Even if you had more than 40% crit you would end up with a 40% chance to deal 30% more damage. With mala you have a 100% chance on +25% damage (also proc sets included)

Saubon

L_Nici wrote: »

Also there are many people who are not using them at all (I don't for example even though I could, they just don't fit my builds), the claim it would be BiS is just not true you can get pretty similar results with the normal 5, 5, 2 Setcombination. The only mythic you can actually call BiS is Malacaths ring and that only if your char has lower than 40% Critrate.

Malacath band buffs proc sets, crit chance/crit dmg doesn't. And in next patch they are even buffing proc sets

Tandor

lozq wrote: »

So ZOS should adopt a model in which expansions/DLCs don't actually contain any new content?

Interesting proposition.

Indeed! I think the point is not that expansions/DLCs shouldn't contain any new content, it's that there's a modern sense of entitlement that means some players think that having bought the game a few years ago for a few quid in a sale, the developer should run the servers and provide expansions/DLCs at no extra charge from here to eternity. Their argument is that it's P2W because they're having to pay to keep up with the game's content, whereas if it was all handed to them on a plate for nothing then it wouldn't be P2W.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

thegreat_one wrote: »

Looks like in order to level the playing field I need to spend money, or these ppl with MYTHIC items (broken af) will have the upper hand.
I though EA was bad but Zos Will do anything for money

i dont mean to disagree, but pvp is nothing to do with gear sets, its understanding movement, nothing more, yes gear sets help, i use oldish and new set combos and dont use mythic at all, but it is about movement and understanding how other peeps will react