real talk hows a stamblade supposed to deal with a magdk

erio

like they just put 10 dots on you in like 3 seconds and then hold block, like whats the counter here, cause you cant outdamage them like that. Nb gotta stand like 2 inches away from them to do any damage but you just get nuked if you step in their grothdarr range.

Sanctum74

You have an unblockable stun and the highest single target burst damage in the game. As far as grothdar goes vigor, leeching strikes, dark cloak, take your pick. Its not that much damage unless your a full vamp.

erio

Sanctum74 wrote: »

You have an unblockable stun and the highest single target burst damage in the game. As far as grothdar goes vigor, leeching strikes, dark cloak, take your pick. Its not that much damage unless your a full vamp.

Not really enough to have an "unblockable stun" when the got leap, fossilize, and talons, but ok, Im sure single target burst would be great against a non heavy armor, block holding grothdarr 100% of the time person.

Kadoin

Is this a real question...?

Most of those DoTs are melee, you have escape and repositioning tools and a skill that negates DoTs. If that's not enough go slot Wyrd Tree which is gonna be even stronger next patch.

erio

Kadoin wrote: »

Is this a real question...?

Most of those DoTs are melee, you have escape and repositioning tools and a skill that negates DoTs. If that's not enough go slot Wyrd Tree which is gonna be even stronger next patch.

You know its crazy how a nightblade is also melee which makes you stand right in their dots and melee, and escape/reposition is cool and all but how do you outdamage 10 dots while they hold block? Its either you reposition and dont kill them or they just wear you down.

Sanctum74

erio wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

You have an unblockable stun and the highest single target burst damage in the game. As far as grothdar goes vigor, leeching strikes, dark cloak, take your pick. Its not that much damage unless your a full vamp.

Not really enough to have an "unblockable stun" when the got leap, fossilize, and talons, but ok, Im sure single target burst would be great against a non heavy armor, block holding grothdarr 100% of the time person.

Works for me even against stamcros, unblockable means they cant block lol. Nma, spriggans, and balgorth. 6k weapon damage, 20k + pen, and another 38% damage modifiers, and god forbid i crit (53%) everything melts. Had you complained about magblade i can understand, but stamblade is in a good spot and fun to play.

ManDraKE

Some of these comments ...

If you are on medium armor stamblade, you are going to struggle vs a good magdk, they are by far the class that more preassure is going to put on you. As soon as you get in range, you are at 50-60% HP almost instantly with the pressure from dots, overwhelming surge, grothar/zaan, etc. The fossilise stun is brutal and leap is a great finisher.

You need to build up mitigation and healing if you want to survive a duel with a magdk, if you morph the cloak to the other one, you get minor protection and a strong healing dot, that in combination with minor main from shadow image and a good defensive set (brass, orgnum scales, pariah, etc), should allow you to go medium and been able to hold quite well the pressure. You need to find a good balance on your build beetwen damage and mitigation, if you go full damage medium armor any decent mdk is going to clap you easily, they only need to bait your combo, block it (nobody runs fear nowadays) and then counter attack.

erio

Sanctum74 wrote: »

erio wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

You have an unblockable stun and the highest single target burst damage in the game. As far as grothdar goes vigor, leeching strikes, dark cloak, take your pick. Its not that much damage unless your a full vamp.

Not really enough to have an "unblockable stun" when the got leap, fossilize, and talons, but ok, Im sure single target burst would be great against a non heavy armor, block holding grothdarr 100% of the time person.

Works for me even against stamcros, unblockable means they cant block lol. Nma, spriggans, and balgorth. 6k weapon damage, 20k + pen, and another 38% damage modifiers, and god forbid i crit (53%) everything melts. Had you complained about magblade i can understand, but stamblade is in a good spot and fun to play.

Works for me against stamcos too. not really talking about them tho...

erio

ManDraKE wrote: »

Some of these comments ...

If you are on medium armor stamblade, you are going to struggle vs a good magdk, they are by far the class that more preassure is going to put on you. As soon as you get in range, you are at 50-60% HP almost instantly with the pressure from dots, overwhelming surge, grothar/zaan, etc. The fossilise stun is brutal and leap is a great finisher.

You need to build up mitigation and healing if you want to survive a duel with a magdk, if you morph the cloak to the other one, you get minor protection and a strong healing dot, that in combination with minor main from shadow image and a good defensive set (brass, orgnum scales, pariah, etc), should allow you to go medium and been able to hold quite well the pressure. You need to find a good balance on your build beetwen damage and mitigation, if you go full damage medium armor any decent mdk is going to clap you easily, they only need to bait your combo, block it (nobody runs fear nowadays) and then counter attack.

Thank you for talking some sense, ty for the advice. Have to say it kind of goes to show something is a bit too strong if you gotta literally change your build just to deal with one class.

Zahirr

Just kill the magdk. Their dots do minimal damage at best, and their healing is really, really bad. They have the worst spammable heal in the game. Run an immovability pot, and walk up to the dk and punch their face in.

fred4

I've eaten a 10K Incap followed by a 15K Assassin's Scourge on my Pariah-wearing magplar in CP (current patch). I am full CP. My crit resist was somewhat low at 2.7K, but still. I do not sympathize with this post. As long as stamblades can do that, I suspect they can also nuke a mag DK by pulling off the right combo at the right moment. Mititgation on the stamblade's part outside of shade / cloak doesn't seem to be required with that kind of burst. Since Assassin's Scourge was involved you can obviously tell that this wasn't a gank. This was a (slightly) longer 1v1 in open world. You could argue whether I should have blocked and I was scratching my head as to whether I let my rune drop. All the same, the damage a stamblade can pull off has somehow become insane (again). Granted, not many players seem able to do this and I don't know what's involved. I can tell you that it should not have been full Balorgh, since he incapped me earlier in the same fight and the fight lasted less than a minute.

Pauwer

On my stamblade, i see "dodge" 85% of time, no effect at all 10% of time, "stun" 5% of time. Roughly. Give or take a few percent here or there. Now on my magdk though...

erio

Zahirr wrote: »

Just kill the magdk. Their dots do minimal damage at best, and their healing is really, really bad. They have the worst spammable heal in the game. Run an immovability pot, and walk up to the dk and punch their face in.

Like 10 dots isnt "minimal damage" on a medium armor 14k resists nb.

erio

fred4 wrote: »

I've eaten a 10K Incap followed by a 15K Assassin's Scourge on my Pariah-wearing magplar in CP (current patch). I am full CP. My crit resist was somewhat low at 2.7K, but still. I do not sympathize with this post. As long as stamblades can do that, I suspect they can also nuke a mag DK by pulling off the right combo at the right moment. Mititgation on the stamblade's part outside of shade / cloak doesn't seem to be required with that kind of burst. Since Assassin's Scourge was involved you can obviously tell that this wasn't a gank. This was a (slightly) longer 1v1 in open world. You could argue whether I should have blocked and I was scratching my head as to whether I let my rune drop. All the same, the damage a stamblade can pull off has somehow become insane (again). Granted, not many players seem able to do this and I don't know what's involved. I can tell you that it should not have been full Balorgh, since he incapped me earlier in the same fight and the fight lasted less than a minute.

I mean cool, you got got by one guy who probably stacked nothing but crit and weapon damage. Not really asking for your sympathy buddy, I guess that because you died, stamblade is OP, end of story. How is a stamblade supposed to burst when they're instantly nuked by dots?

Im sorry that because some guy in the middle of cyrodil who magically hits these insane numbers on you is your only idea of what a stamblade is. Must be nice hitting those numbers too, I wish I could hit those on heavy armor wearing 25k resist plus players. Alas my fully gold, clever alch, balorg, nma masters bow setup probably never will, because i am not wearing string cheese for armor.

Also next time, try to double tap w a s or d so you dont get dunked on but the dodgerollable combo with a cast time thats really predictable

erio

Pauwer wrote: »

On my stamblade, i see "dodge" 85% of time, no effect at all 10% of time, "stun" 5% of time. Roughly. Give or take a few percent here or there. Now on my magdk though...

What?

Vanagrand

We are your counter as we have stam sorcs as one of our worst enemies(specially in no-cp).

Play your mobility, look for windows when the magdk do mistakes and exploit them.

Go in and out till he get tired and exploit his frustration of not being able to catch you.

Is a hard match up, but it is doable if you play it perfectly. In the worst scenario, just go for another target.

Goregrinder

erio wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

Some of these comments ...

If you are on medium armor stamblade, you are going to struggle vs a good magdk, they are by far the class that more preassure is going to put on you. As soon as you get in range, you are at 50-60% HP almost instantly with the pressure from dots, overwhelming surge, grothar/zaan, etc. The fossilise stun is brutal and leap is a great finisher.

You need to build up mitigation and healing if you want to survive a duel with a magdk, if you morph the cloak to the other one, you get minor protection and a strong healing dot, that in combination with minor main from shadow image and a good defensive set (brass, orgnum scales, pariah, etc), should allow you to go medium and been able to hold quite well the pressure. You need to find a good balance on your build beetwen damage and mitigation, if you go full damage medium armor any decent mdk is going to clap you easily, they only need to bait your combo, block it (nobody runs fear nowadays) and then counter attack.

Thank you for talking some sense, ty for the advice. Have to say it kind of goes to show something is a bit too strong if you gotta literally change your build just to deal with one class.

That's literally how the game works though. You can't run one build and expect it to beat all other builds and setups. That doesn't exist. Even Meta builds have weaknesses that can be capitalized on, it is just running those builds aren't useful against everything, only against one or two playstyles so people don't find them worth running.

But that is the fun part of this MMO, you have to make a choice on your class, gear setup, skills setup, etc and decide what your build wants to be good at, and then learn how to pilot it. There will always be someone running some set combo that just destroys your build, but the same goes for you...whatever build you run probably deletes someone else's build. It's not a perfect "Rock-Paper-Scissor" scenario but it is close.

You're mad that you ran into a combo that your build struggles with based on how you currently pilot it....welcome to checks and balances bud. Instead of blaming your build, maybe learn how their build is wrecking you and learn how to play around it. That's how PVP always has, and always will function.

SRASinister

If you can't get it off just run an immov, RATs, shuffle, and if you need more damage just use Selene's or someother monster proc set since they decided to use one as well.

Firstmep

If you are running 14k resist glass cannon nightblade maybe you shouldn't be brawling with a s/b magDK, you know a class specifically designed for that.
Put your shade at a safe distance, go in (try to) burst them down, if it doesn't work back to your shade, cloak to suppress dots reset fight rinse repeat.
If they're too tanky to kill then move on, chances of a slow poke dk catching you should be 0.

fred4

erio wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

I've eaten a 10K Incap followed by a 15K Assassin's Scourge on my Pariah-wearing magplar in CP (current patch). I am full CP. My crit resist was somewhat low at 2.7K, but still. I do not sympathize with this post. As long as stamblades can do that, I suspect they can also nuke a mag DK by pulling off the right combo at the right moment. Mititgation on the stamblade's part outside of shade / cloak doesn't seem to be required with that kind of burst. Since Assassin's Scourge was involved you can obviously tell that this wasn't a gank. This was a (slightly) longer 1v1 in open world. You could argue whether I should have blocked and I was scratching my head as to whether I let my rune drop. All the same, the damage a stamblade can pull off has somehow become insane (again). Granted, not many players seem able to do this and I don't know what's involved. I can tell you that it should not have been full Balorgh, since he incapped me earlier in the same fight and the fight lasted less than a minute.

I mean cool, you got got by one guy who probably stacked nothing but crit and weapon damage. Not really asking for your sympathy buddy, I guess that because you died, stamblade is OP, end of story. How is a stamblade supposed to burst when they're instantly nuked by dots?

They're not. They can't be. I have no problem attacking Grothdarr players on my light armor melee magblade. Between either Snow Treaders or the Wild Hunt ring, Race Against Time and Immovability potions, the DK can't really lock me down. Not to mention the shade. You're telling me to dodge roll? OK, so I'll tell you how to play. Use Shuffle. Use Immovability potions. Use Fear. Use Shadow Image. Cloak to suppress DOTs. Aside from that, every class has their nemesis. As a melee magblade main, I'm just a bit surprised that it should be mag DK for stamblade.

Im sorry that because some guy in the middle of cyrodil who magically hits these insane numbers on you

He's not the only stamblade hitting really hard, even if not all of them use the bow proc. As a magblade main I hardly ever notice it, because I play the damage avoidance game. I expect to die to anything, if I fail at that. Recently I've been playing my other classes more. This was in IC, by the way.

Alas my fully gold, clever alch, balorg, nma masters bow setup probably never will, because i am not wearing string cheese for armor.

Neither was this guy. There wasn't a proc in sight, if that's what you're referring to. I really wish I could actually tell you how this is done. You can watch YouTube and read this forum all day. I'm convinced players aren't telling you everything they do - they might not even be aware of it - or it's like learning vMA and everyone has slightly different problems that hold their game back. The two things I can tell you about this guy are that he lead with a medium attack and that his damage was quite inconsistent. In other words, there were temporary factors involved. I can only guess at some of them, e.g. state of my Pariah, his Clever Alchemist (possibly), the leading 2H heavy attack (+10% extra damage on Incap), maybe off balance and so on.

Hämähäkki

Just give the Dk your lunch money and call it a day

No seriously with 14k resist and medium armour you should not stand in front of a dk longer than a second.

I play both mag and stam dk and can assure you a nb that knows what he/she is doing can burst me without a problem when they catch me off guard.

So maybe you should overthink your build

erio

Goregrinder wrote: »

erio wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

Some of these comments ...

If you are on medium armor stamblade, you are going to struggle vs a good magdk, they are by far the class that more preassure is going to put on you. As soon as you get in range, you are at 50-60% HP almost instantly with the pressure from dots, overwhelming surge, grothar/zaan, etc. The fossilise stun is brutal and leap is a great finisher.

You need to build up mitigation and healing if you want to survive a duel with a magdk, if you morph the cloak to the other one, you get minor protection and a strong healing dot, that in combination with minor main from shadow image and a good defensive set (brass, orgnum scales, pariah, etc), should allow you to go medium and been able to hold quite well the pressure. You need to find a good balance on your build beetwen damage and mitigation, if you go full damage medium armor any decent mdk is going to clap you easily, they only need to bait your combo, block it (nobody runs fear nowadays) and then counter attack.

Thank you for talking some sense, ty for the advice. Have to say it kind of goes to show something is a bit too strong if you gotta literally change your build just to deal with one class.

That's literally how the game works though. You can't run one build and expect it to beat all other builds and setups. That doesn't exist. Even Meta builds have weaknesses that can be capitalized on, it is just running those builds aren't useful against everything, only against one or two playstyles so people don't find them worth running.

But that is the fun part of this MMO, you have to make a choice on your class, gear setup, skills setup, etc and decide what your build wants to be good at, and then learn how to pilot it. There will always be someone running some set combo that just destroys your build, but the same goes for you...whatever build you run probably deletes someone else's build. It's not a perfect "Rock-Paper-Scissor" scenario but it is close.

You're mad that you ran into a combo that your build struggles with based on how you currently pilot it....welcome to checks and balances bud. Instead of blaming your build, maybe learn how their build is wrecking you and learn how to play around it. That's how PVP always has, and always will function.

Really now? 99.99% of people dont change their build when they see a different class. Its not really fun to have to change your gear every 3 seconds. First of all, im not mad... Second of all, me literally walking within melee range and instantly going to 50% hp with 15k resists and like 1.2k health recovery while i have vigor and rally up isnt really my build struggling, considering i can dunk on literally any other class. Maybe im missing how im supposed to avoid fossilize, grothdarr, like 5 other dots, talons, and elf bane in a 2 second window, every few seconds.

erio

Hämähäkki wrote: »

Just give the Dk your lunch money and call it a day

No seriously with 14k resist and medium armour you should not stand in front of a dk longer than a second.

I play both mag and stam dk and can assure you a nb that knows what he/she is doing can burst me without a problem when they catch me off guard.

So maybe you should overthink your build

Yea and in a second im already 50% hp lmao from a elf bane, grothdarr, fossilize, and talons. Maybe you could explain what i could learn to "make me know what im doing" to avoid that, cause thats what a good mad dk players pumps out every 5 seconds.

erio

fred4 wrote: »

erio wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

I've eaten a 10K Incap followed by a 15K Assassin's Scourge on my Pariah-wearing magplar in CP (current patch). I am full CP. My crit resist was somewhat low at 2.7K, but still. I do not sympathize with this post. As long as stamblades can do that, I suspect they can also nuke a mag DK by pulling off the right combo at the right moment. Mititgation on the stamblade's part outside of shade / cloak doesn't seem to be required with that kind of burst. Since Assassin's Scourge was involved you can obviously tell that this wasn't a gank. This was a (slightly) longer 1v1 in open world. You could argue whether I should have blocked and I was scratching my head as to whether I let my rune drop. All the same, the damage a stamblade can pull off has somehow become insane (again). Granted, not many players seem able to do this and I don't know what's involved. I can tell you that it should not have been full Balorgh, since he incapped me earlier in the same fight and the fight lasted less than a minute.

I mean cool, you got got by one guy who probably stacked nothing but crit and weapon damage. Not really asking for your sympathy buddy, I guess that because you died, stamblade is OP, end of story. How is a stamblade supposed to burst when they're instantly nuked by dots?

They're not. They can't be. I have no problem attacking Grothdarr players on my light armor melee magblade. Between either Snow Treaders or the Wild Hunt ring, Race Against Time and Immovability potions, the DK can't really lock me down. Not to mention the shade. You're telling me to dodge roll? OK, so I'll tell you how to play. Use Shuffle. Use Immovability potions. Use Fear. Use Shadow Image. Cloak to suppress DOTs. Aside from that, every class has their nemesis. As a melee magblade main, I'm just a bit surprised that it should be mag DK for stamblade.

Im sorry that because some guy in the middle of cyrodil who magically hits these insane numbers on you

He's not the only stamblade hitting really hard, even if not all of them use the bow proc. As a magblade main I hardly ever notice it, because I play the damage avoidance game. I expect to die to anything, if I fail at that. Recently I've been playing my other classes more. This was in IC, by the way.

Alas my fully gold, clever alch, balorg, nma masters bow setup probably never will, because i am not wearing string cheese for armor.

Neither was this guy. There wasn't a proc in sight, if that's what you're referring to. I really wish I could actually tell you how this is done. You can watch YouTube and read this forum all day. I'm convinced players aren't telling you everything they do - they might not even be aware of it - or it's like learning vMA and everyone has slightly different problems that hold their game back. The two things I can tell you about this guy are that he lead with a medium attack and that his damage was quite inconsistent. In other words, there were temporary factors involved. I can only guess at some of them, e.g. state of my Pariah, his Clever Alchemist (possibly), the leading 2H heavy attack (+10% extra damage on Incap), maybe off balance and so on.

Im not talking about some random grothdarr wearer (grothdarr by itsself is harmless...)
I dont wear legos because im not paying 40$ for 1 zone and a few items, and my build couldnt fit it in.
Never once did I say im getting "locked down" i can shade any day of the week. thats not the problem.
Using shuffle and immovalbbity is nice and all, doesnt really solve anything.
Cloaking doesnt = guy dead, its a nice escape tool, it = wow i ran away and we're back to square one, and isnt the solution to "how do i kill this guy". Its not like im going to outsustain them, they literally got perma sustain with the 100 burning procs they get every second.

You should thing about what a stamblade does. It gets into melee range, and hits a person with single target only abilties. They rely heavily on dodgerolling attacks, and shade and other stuff you talked about. Do you know what a good mag dk does? They put multiple dots on you and spam aoes.

I mean, im sure youre definetly the benchmark for hard hitting nightblades, I too have hit big numbers on nubs and players who either, didnt have their buffs up, or didnt play very well.

Didnt say it was a proc. Thanks for telling me to weave and use off balance and heavy and medium attacks. I've also been doing them for years but ill make sure to binge even more nightblade vids to make sure I understand all their hidden meanings.

erio

Firstmep wrote: »

If you are running 14k resist glass cannon nightblade maybe you shouldn't be brawling with a s/b magDK, you know a class specifically designed for that.
Put your shade at a safe distance, go in (try to) burst them down, if it doesn't work back to your shade, cloak to suppress dots reset fight rinse repeat.
If they're too tanky to kill then move on, chances of a slow poke dk catching you should be 0.

Im not running a glass cannon build, ty for asking.

erio

SRASinister wrote: »

If you can't get it off just run an immov, RATs, shuffle, and if you need more damage just use Selene's or someother monster proc set since they decided to use one as well.

Maybe think about what i've said. Never once did i say that I had a problem magically hitting one button and teleporting away.

Goregrinder

erio wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

erio wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

Some of these comments ...

If you are on medium armor stamblade, you are going to struggle vs a good magdk, they are by far the class that more preassure is going to put on you. As soon as you get in range, you are at 50-60% HP almost instantly with the pressure from dots, overwhelming surge, grothar/zaan, etc. The fossilise stun is brutal and leap is a great finisher.

You need to build up mitigation and healing if you want to survive a duel with a magdk, if you morph the cloak to the other one, you get minor protection and a strong healing dot, that in combination with minor main from shadow image and a good defensive set (brass, orgnum scales, pariah, etc), should allow you to go medium and been able to hold quite well the pressure. You need to find a good balance on your build beetwen damage and mitigation, if you go full damage medium armor any decent mdk is going to clap you easily, they only need to bait your combo, block it (nobody runs fear nowadays) and then counter attack.

Thank you for talking some sense, ty for the advice. Have to say it kind of goes to show something is a bit too strong if you gotta literally change your build just to deal with one class.

That's literally how the game works though. You can't run one build and expect it to beat all other builds and setups. That doesn't exist. Even Meta builds have weaknesses that can be capitalized on, it is just running those builds aren't useful against everything, only against one or two playstyles so people don't find them worth running.

But that is the fun part of this MMO, you have to make a choice on your class, gear setup, skills setup, etc and decide what your build wants to be good at, and then learn how to pilot it. There will always be someone running some set combo that just destroys your build, but the same goes for you...whatever build you run probably deletes someone else's build. It's not a perfect "Rock-Paper-Scissor" scenario but it is close.

You're mad that you ran into a combo that your build struggles with based on how you currently pilot it....welcome to checks and balances bud. Instead of blaming your build, maybe learn how their build is wrecking you and learn how to play around it. That's how PVP always has, and always will function.

Really now? 99.99% of people dont change their build when they see a different class. Its not really fun to have to change your gear every 3 seconds. First of all, im not mad... Second of all, me literally walking within melee range and instantly going to 50% hp with 15k resists and like 1.2k health recovery while i have vigor and rally up isnt really my build struggling, considering i can dunk on literally any other class. Maybe im missing how im supposed to avoid fossilize, grothdarr, like 5 other dots, talons, and elf bane in a 2 second window, every few seconds.

I never said they change their build everytime they face a build that beats their build. They pick a build that fits their playstyle, they tweak it until they feel it's as min/maxed as they want it to be, and they learn what their build is good at and what it's bad at. No one expect their build to be good against everything (well except you). When they run into someone who has a build that is a counter to theirs, they either learn to play around that person, engage that person with a group or leave that person alone.

Your complaint is that someone has a build that can counter yours. Duh. What else did you expect?

fred4

erio wrote: »

Im not talking about some random grothdarr wearer (grothdarr by itsself is harmless...)
I dont wear legos because im not paying 40$ for 1 zone and a few items, and my build couldnt fit it in.
Never once did I say im getting "locked down" i can shade any day of the week. thats not the problem.
Using shuffle and immovalbbity is nice and all, doesnt really solve anything.
Cloaking doesnt = guy dead, its a nice escape tool, it = wow i ran away and we're back to square one, and isnt the solution to "how do i kill this guy". Its not like im going to outsustain them, they literally got perma sustain with the 100 burning procs they get every second.

You should thing about what a stamblade does. It gets into melee range, and hits a person with single target only abilties. They rely heavily on dodgerolling attacks, and shade and other stuff you talked about. Do you know what a good mag dk does? They put multiple dots on you and spam aoes.

I mean, im sure youre definetly the benchmark for hard hitting nightblades, I too have hit big numbers on nubs and players who either, didnt have their buffs up, or didnt play very well.

Didnt say it was a proc. Thanks for telling me to weave and use off balance and heavy and medium attacks. I've also been doing them for years but ill make sure to binge even more nightblade vids to make sure I understand all their hidden meanings.

So what exactly are you looking for? A solution without ZOS changing anything? Commiserations? Nerfs to DK? Buffs to nightblade? I can only agree with Goregrinder. Every build runs into something that seems terribly unbalanced from time to time, but it's just rock, paper, scissors. That effect seems par for the course in an RPG to me by now. Are you just annoyed there is something you can't kill? As a melee magblade I also suffer from the fact that I can't stay in people's faces. I'm also single target and targetting is a big issue.

I use ZOS' built-in effects tracker for the negative effects only. The amount of those that a stamblade racks up on me rivals a DK. Still, the DK needs to spend some time to apply DOTs. It sounds like you've played the game for a long time. Historically stamblades have worked on the "offense is the best defense" principle. This definitely took a hit a few patches ago, but at the same time I feel the mag DK playstyle has been neutered a bit with all the anti-root options we have now, unless you want to go back to the time Forward Momentum lasted 8 seconds. These days I see 3 types of stamblades. The (Titanborn) snipers, the really tanky ones with 30K+ health and Dark Cloak, and the stealthy melee types. The last category seems to be doing well to me again, but I don't play mag DK. I guess I have to concede I don't know enough to be of any help.

erio

fred4 wrote: »

erio wrote: »

Im not talking about some random grothdarr wearer (grothdarr by itsself is harmless...)
I dont wear legos because im not paying 40$ for 1 zone and a few items, and my build couldnt fit it in.
Never once did I say im getting "locked down" i can shade any day of the week. thats not the problem.
Using shuffle and immovalbbity is nice and all, doesnt really solve anything.
Cloaking doesnt = guy dead, its a nice escape tool, it = wow i ran away and we're back to square one, and isnt the solution to "how do i kill this guy". Its not like im going to outsustain them, they literally got perma sustain with the 100 burning procs they get every second.

You should thing about what a stamblade does. It gets into melee range, and hits a person with single target only abilties. They rely heavily on dodgerolling attacks, and shade and other stuff you talked about. Do you know what a good mag dk does? They put multiple dots on you and spam aoes.

I mean, im sure youre definetly the benchmark for hard hitting nightblades, I too have hit big numbers on nubs and players who either, didnt have their buffs up, or didnt play very well.

Didnt say it was a proc. Thanks for telling me to weave and use off balance and heavy and medium attacks. I've also been doing them for years but ill make sure to binge even more nightblade vids to make sure I understand all their hidden meanings.

So what exactly are you looking for? A solution without ZOS changing anything? Commiserations? Nerfs to DK? Buffs to nightblade? I can only agree with Goregrinder. Every build runs into something that seems terribly unbalanced from time to time, but it's just rock, paper, scissors. That effect seems par for the course in an RPG to me by now. Are you just annoyed there is something you can't kill? As a melee magblade I also suffer from the fact that I can't stay in people's faces. I'm also single target and targetting is a big issue.

I use ZOS' built-in effects tracker for the negative effects only. The amount of those that a stamblade racks up on me rivals a DK. Still, the DK needs to spend some time to apply DOTs. It sounds like you've played the game for a long time. Historically stamblades have worked on the "offense is the best defense" principle. This definitely took a hit a few patches ago, but at the same time I feel the mag DK playstyle has been neutered a bit with all the anti-root options we have now, unless you want to go back to the time Forward Momentum lasted 8 seconds. These days I see 3 types of stamblades. The (Titanborn) snipers, the really tanky ones with 30K+ health and Dark Cloak, and the stealthy melee types. The last category seems to be doing well to me again, but I don't play mag DK. I guess I have to concede I don't know enough to be of any help.

Read the posts title. Yeah I feel most people would be annoyed fighting something thats incredibly unbalanced and hard for them to win, gimmie back my 300 telvar plus interest i dropped when I died. Yeah dude like at most, a stamblade puts a poison, poison injection, fractures, minor maim, and one or two other things im probably forgetting on you. Debuff tracker is useless lmao, knowing that "oh he put this debuff on me!" is not needed, you just hit your heal or a purge if its some big deal. Also this isnt some dungeons and dragons mmo where its like "haha your dinky dagger is useless against my tank paladin" or something, its an action pvp mmo. Sorry that calling out some balance issue that you disagree with and think is all fine and dandy.

erio

Goregrinder wrote: »

erio wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

erio wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

Some of these comments ...

If you are on medium armor stamblade, you are going to struggle vs a good magdk, they are by far the class that more preassure is going to put on you. As soon as you get in range, you are at 50-60% HP almost instantly with the pressure from dots, overwhelming surge, grothar/zaan, etc. The fossilise stun is brutal and leap is a great finisher.

You need to build up mitigation and healing if you want to survive a duel with a magdk, if you morph the cloak to the other one, you get minor protection and a strong healing dot, that in combination with minor main from shadow image and a good defensive set (brass, orgnum scales, pariah, etc), should allow you to go medium and been able to hold quite well the pressure. You need to find a good balance on your build beetwen damage and mitigation, if you go full damage medium armor any decent mdk is going to clap you easily, they only need to bait your combo, block it (nobody runs fear nowadays) and then counter attack.

Thank you for talking some sense, ty for the advice. Have to say it kind of goes to show something is a bit too strong if you gotta literally change your build just to deal with one class.

That's literally how the game works though. You can't run one build and expect it to beat all other builds and setups. That doesn't exist. Even Meta builds have weaknesses that can be capitalized on, it is just running those builds aren't useful against everything, only against one or two playstyles so people don't find them worth running.

But that is the fun part of this MMO, you have to make a choice on your class, gear setup, skills setup, etc and decide what your build wants to be good at, and then learn how to pilot it. There will always be someone running some set combo that just destroys your build, but the same goes for you...whatever build you run probably deletes someone else's build. It's not a perfect "Rock-Paper-Scissor" scenario but it is close.

You're mad that you ran into a combo that your build struggles with based on how you currently pilot it....welcome to checks and balances bud. Instead of blaming your build, maybe learn how their build is wrecking you and learn how to play around it. That's how PVP always has, and always will function.

Really now? 99.99% of people dont change their build when they see a different class. Its not really fun to have to change your gear every 3 seconds. First of all, im not mad... Second of all, me literally walking within melee range and instantly going to 50% hp with 15k resists and like 1.2k health recovery while i have vigor and rally up isnt really my build struggling, considering i can dunk on literally any other class. Maybe im missing how im supposed to avoid fossilize, grothdarr, like 5 other dots, talons, and elf bane in a 2 second window, every few seconds.

I never said they change their build everytime they face a build that beats their build. They pick a build that fits their playstyle, they tweak it until they feel it's as min/maxed as they want it to be, and they learn what their build is good at and what it's bad at. No one expect their build to be good against everything (well except you). When they run into someone who has a build that is a counter to theirs, they either learn to play around that person, engage that person with a group or leave that person alone.

Your complaint is that someone has a build that can counter yours. Duh. What else did you expect?

One class being at a mega disadvantage to another isnt really great game design imo for this type of game. Can we stop pretending this is some 1000iq game of 4d chess too? Its literally wear whatever tanky/damage sets do the most, essentially dressing up your character like a barbie doll with a different combination of the same 10 actually stat viable sets. Id expect more balance.

fred4

erio wrote: »

Read the posts title. Yeah I feel most people would be annoyed fighting something thats incredibly unbalanced and hard for them to win, gimmie back my 300 telvar plus interest i dropped when I died.

Let me just put one more thought out there. You're a nightblade. The choice whether you survive and bring your Tel Var home or whether you die is almost entirely up to you. You got Cloak and Shadow Image. Nightblades cannot be beaten, they can only lose a fight. If you know there is a class or an outnumbered situation that's dicey, it's up to you to assess the risk and reset the fight, or to get out of there, or to never be seen in the first place. That's more of a choice than most classes have.

I'm playing this game for 5 years. At first I was with you and everyone who clamoured for balance. It only made sense. These days I've changed my mind. Every build you play is a compromise. It excels at some things and fails at others, sometimes miserably. There are competitive aspects to this game, but ultimately it's an RPG. The very nature of open world is that situations are almost never fair.

Nightblades have huge advantages in open world. They got nerfed, because of it. Cloak being what it is seems an incredibly hard thing to balance. But you know what? It's fair enough. I see the "OP" tanky classes, the meta builds, and they cannot do what I do. They don't have my speed, nor do they have my survivability other than by jamming themselves inbetween a wall and a staircase in IC. Being a nightblade gives you some incredible freedoms.

At this point, just wait for next patch. Can't say I agree that ZOS are messing with the AOE functionality of skills, rather than straight up fixing performance, but this will play into nightblades' hands. Cloak will become that much more effective.