Roaring Opportunist change (not in PTS notes?)

Kolzki

I couldn't find this change to how Roaring Opportunist scales in the PTS notes. The new scaling based on max resources makes it possible to reach reasonable up times with lightning staves (which is good). I got about 42% up time with a lightning heavy attack sorc.



The set retains the 22 second cooldown on the receiver of the buff, so a second person running it can't add to the up time. I'm not sure how the 6 person taraget cap works in larger groups. Can more than 6 people be buffed with two heavy attacks? Can two people buff the whole group? I didn't have a large enough group to test.

YandereGirlfriend

Wow, talk about a stealth change!

Is that summing the derived durations for both your Spell Power and Max Magicka (or is it current Magicka?) or is it simply selecting whichever is largest? I'd assume that it sums based upon your reported uptime.

Seems like a beneficial change and allows more classes than only mDK to use it effectively and it seems to remove the need for Jorvuld's as well since you're capped on the maximum duration.

Given that healers are often stacking the same stats as DPS though I'm not sure if it will sufficiently gate the buff so that DPS are incentivized to run it.

Kolzki

Yes, it appears to sum the two. It's 1 second for every 600 spell damage plus 1 second every 6300 max magicka you have.

tmbrinks

Duration can go over 12 seconds when used in combination with Jorvulds.

From my testing it appears to not be 1 second for every 600 spell damage but for every 900 spell damage (or close to that)



These are some various Mag/SD/Duration results from testing - The numbers on the right are taking Mag/6300 + SD/900 which is the closest "easy" fit that I could get to the data.

(I picked 900 instead of 600 because I thought maybe somebody just typed a number wrong )

tmbrinks

Upon more testing (and editing an add-on to get more decimal places on the Major Slayer Uptime)



It's taking your Max Magicka/6000 + SD/1000 = Major Slayer Uptime.

PandaPalace

What wording makes it sound like 1 person can run it and heavy attack twice to proc for all but 1 person. 1 heavy for you and 5 others and 2nd heavy for another 5 ppl that don't have the CD.

Can any1 test to confirm?

YandereGirlfriend

That's, um, quite a typo to go from 1000 to 600 Spell Damage. Those numbers aren't even next to each other unless someone is using an exotic keyboard layout. One wonders how that might have happened.

On the bright side though, at least the calculation isn't using floor division!

Stahlor

I guess teams will be rather running Master Architect and War Machine with the upcoming changes. Unless they don't change it back to 12 people, this set makes not really sense anymore.

tmbrinks

Stahlor wrote: »

I guess teams will be rather running Master Architect and War Machine with the upcoming changes. Unless they don't change it back to 12 people, this set makes not really sense anymore.

A Jorvuld's/MA 500/500 Ultimate give 48 (48!) seconds of Major Slayer to 6 people!

Olupajmibanan

Can you heavy attack twice in a row to affect 11 people?

Coopersnow

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Can you heavy attack twice in a row to affect 11 people?

Yes

Coopersnow

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
Was this not included in PTS notes for a reason or a mistake?
Thanks in advance

MashmalloMan

@tmbrinks you might need to check your math again. The set says the minimum duration is 5 seconds which means it probably starts with 5s no matter what, then adds extra duration based on only 1 of your highest damage stats, not both which is why it says Max Magicka OR Spell Damage not AND.

This would explain why you felt the conversion rate was off, forcing to add them together as a sum as well as increasing the conversion beyond the tooltip amounts, because 5/12s of the set is already free.

Your first example of 43857 Magicka when converted at 6300 equals an additional 6.96s to the minimum 5s for a total uptime of about 11s. With a CD of 22s, this is close to a potential 50% uptime. Now take into account user error and rotation and that 50% drops to 40-45% uptime which probably lines up with your assumed total of 9.7.

Edit: Your second test/comment adjusted the conversion rates even further, trying to match your actual outcome on the dummy to a fraction which shouldn't exist because of human erorr and rotation. It's just impossible for them to match that way. For a lightning heavy attack, didn't they also adjust it so sets like this only proc based on the final tick of the fully charged heavy attack which leaves a large margin of error in between. With CD and that cast time, it seems it would be impossible to proc this set exactly at the 22s mark making it impossible to for the theoretical uptime of the set and the actual uptime to match so closely.

Would you be able to test your findings again with the above information or is this something you already considered?

MashmalloMan

@tmbrinks combing through your data in the first graph, the only test where your Spell Damage beats out the Max Magicka after the tooltip conversion is possibly your 2nd last line, meaning every other test was probably only taking into account the Max Magicka. It doesn't really explain why your last test with the same magicka, but less spell damage had lower uptime. So maybe I'm wrong or maybe it was a bad test. IDK.

2nd last line:

Minimum set duration = 5s.
32773 Magicka/6300 = 5.2s
3305 Spell Damage/600 = 5.5s
Total 10.5s, Jorvulds +40% duration = 14.7

Now lets assume you don't proc this on CD so the listed 22s CD is really around 23-26s.

14.7/23 = 0.639
14.7/26 = 0.565

0.639 * 22 = 14.05s
0.565 * 22 = 12.43s

With the above setup and taking into account human error/rotation between a best case scenario and worst case scenario, you'd get a more realistic uptime of around 12.43s - 14.05s once the parse was completed. Your listed result was 12.424s which is in line with the math above.

I'd say from my point of view and your data, the tooltip is correct.

Kolzki

It looks to me like it's scaling from both:



The two marked with "*" are buffed with a spell power potion, so it is scaling from buffed spell damage.

Stahlor

tmbrinks wrote: »

A Jorvuld's/MA 500/500 Ultimate give 48 (48!) seconds of Major Slayer to 6 people!

Exactly, so why should anybody run RO?

tmbrinks

MashmalloMan wrote: »

@tmbrinks combing through your data in the first graph, the only test where your Spell Damage beats out the Max Magicka after the tooltip conversion is possibly your 2nd last line, meaning every other test was probably only taking into account the Max Magicka. It doesn't really explain why your last test with the same magicka, but less spell damage had lower uptime. So maybe I'm wrong or maybe it was a bad test. IDK.

2nd last line:

Minimum set duration = 5s.
32773 Magicka/6300 = 5.2s
3305 Spell Damage/600 = 5.5s
Total 10.5s, Jorvulds +40% duration = 14.7

Now lets assume you don't proc this on CD so the listed 22s CD is really around 23-26s.

14.7/23 = 0.639
14.7/26 = 0.565

0.639 * 22 = 14.05s
0.565 * 22 = 12.43s

With the above setup and taking into account human error/rotation between a best case scenario and worst case scenario, you'd get a more realistic uptime of around 12.43s - 14.05s once the parse was completed. Your listed result was 12.424s which is in line with the math above.

I'd say from my point of view and your data, the tooltip is correct.

I don't know how you'd have a "bad test". I wrote an add-on that tracks Roaring Opportunist, it pulls the exact length of time that Major Slayer is applied to myself (and I'm the only one there) directly from the game's API. There is no "estimation" or "downtime" in those Major Slayer numbers, that is what those stats give. I tested each of them multiple times, and it gives the EXACT same amount of Major Slayer each time.



Here is two extra columns added with both of those possibilities (which was the first thing me and my raid teammates looked at). Neither of them match the data, even when selecting for the "highest" pool to get the maximum uptime.

Edit:

To expand.

The add-on only procs a function when 1 of two abilities ID's are fired 135923 (which is the application of Major Slayer from non-perfected Roaring Opportunist) or 137986 (which is the application of Major Slayer from perfected Roaring Opportunist) These can be gotten from any ESO Logs upload that players using Roaring Opportunist are using.

The add-on then grabs the hitValue for that ability ID, directly from the API, which is the length of time (in milliseconds) that Major Slayer is going to be up as a result.

Normally, my add-on then counts down that time so you have a visual countdown of how much longer you have Major Slayer. I modified it slightly so that it does not actually count down, and just reports back the initial value of the "slayer time" to be used in testing.

There is no rounding, or approximation due to uptimes or not attacking at 22s on the dot. This is not a "theoretical" uptime or best case scenario based on a real life parse. I'm simply reporting the exact amount of Major Slayer that is given upon the completion of a heavy attack from Roaring Opportunist. It's a one event result.

It is most assuredly NOT 5s + Max Mag/6300 or 5s + SD/600 or some picking of the highest (or lowest) of those two.

Edit 2:

I encourage you (or anybody else) to look over the add-on, tell me if it's wrong. (I also had Srendarr running and the times it gave for major slayer were identical to the ones given by my add-on, so I doubt either are wrong. But, if they are, I'll admit my mistake.



Here's one showing everything including the output from the add-on along with the character sheet.

Kolzki

I tested by removing all skills and gear except RO before punching a non-raid dummy. Up times (buff end time minus buff start) and character stats read off of combat metrics. The numbers agree with the 1 second per 6000 mag + 1 second per 1000 spell damage pretty well. They match that much closer than the RO tool tip.

bharathitman

On the trial dummy with M.S + Maw + pR.O 3x infused rings I am basically getting 12s of slayer (4.5k SD and 41k max magicka). This is basically the max value

We will have to wait until the working week starts if ZoS wants to acknowledge this change and further explain the way it works

T3hasiangod

I can also confirm through my own testing that tmbrinks's data is correct.

The tooltip is wrong.

PandaPalace

Stahlor wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

A Jorvuld's/MA 500/500 Ultimate give 48 (48!) seconds of Major Slayer to 6 people!

Exactly, so why should anybody run RO?

No1 is gonna hold their ult till 500.

bharathitman

Stahlor wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

A Jorvuld's/MA 500/500 Ultimate give 48 (48!) seconds of Major Slayer to 6 people!

Exactly, so why should anybody run RO?

Well, speaking from a 4 man content perspective MA has its uses when the fight time is short (less than a minute).With 250 ulti you are gonna get 17 seconds, with jorvulds around 23-24 seconds. 500 ulti is a viable strat, but only on a necro.

RO on the other hand gives you consistent major slayer uptimes, and is not difficult to get 10-11 seconds of uptime (considering the current calculations), and this goes till 15-17 with Jorvulds. You are free to use whatever ulti's you want, and if the fight time is greater than a minute RO gives you consistent slayer uptimes.

In random ub-optimized trial groups a Jorv + RO healer / DD is undoubtedly better

Tannus15

I did some testing on magsorc, stacking spell damage or max mag and the difference between building for higher major slayer uptime and just doing a "normal" build isn't worth it.

You lose a bunch of personal dps to gain 1% or 2% higher uptime. That said, the uptime is pretty solid, way ahead of what a sorc can achieve with master architect.

perfect roaring, medusa, maw

shadow, 2 BT, 1 infused


apprentice, 3 infused

MA, medusa, maw

I'm aware that sorc is possibly the worst class for MA, but sorc is what I do.

Olupajmibanan

Tannus15 wrote: »

I did some testing on magsorc, stacking spell damage or max mag and the difference between building for higher major slayer uptime and just doing a "normal" build isn't worth it.

You lose a bunch of personal dps to gain 1% or 2% higher uptime. That said, the uptime is pretty solid, way ahead of what a sorc can achieve with master architect.

perfect roaring, medusa, maw

shadow, 2 BT, 1 infused


apprentice, 3 infused

MA, medusa, maw

I'm aware that sorc is possibly the worst class for MA, but sorc is what I do.

It's not worth to build for it on a healer either, unless you push for top scores. Just with "normal" build, only slight changes, I am able to keep Major Slayer on 11 people 60-62% of the time. If I add all those Shimmering Frenzy, Molag Kena and other kiss-curse effects I might get to 70%.

Aznarb

Tannus15 wrote: »

I did some testing on magsorc, stacking spell damage or max mag and the difference between building for higher major slayer uptime and just doing a "normal" build isn't worth it.

You lose a bunch of personal dps to gain 1% or 2% higher uptime. That said, the uptime is pretty solid, way ahead of what a sorc can achieve with master architect.

perfect roaring, medusa, maw

shadow, 2 BT, 1 infused


apprentice, 3 infused

MA, medusa, maw

I'm aware that sorc is possibly the worst class for MA, but sorc is what I do.

The thing that make MA good is the duration and the timing.
MA is amazing for burst phase where you're sure than it will proc on Warhorn/Colossus and stay the whole duration of the burst.
Both are good, depend what you need.