can we get a dev response as to why AoE taunting is not a thing in this game?

kargen27

Tanks can't taunt everything but if you let them go in and engage first they can do a very good job of gathering up a mob to be hit with AoE from the DPS. Ranged attack NPC's can be dragged in if/when they become a nuisance by a ranged taunt. Like others have said an AoE taunt simply isn't needed and would make tanking a one button affair.

Joy_Division

Wing wrote: »

its so convenient and so easy

You answered your own question.

Jeremy

Wing wrote: »

im all for a mechanic if i understand the reasoning behind it, but i just cannot see it.

for instance, a couple friends and I have been wandering through FF14 recently, and we pre researched and dedicated rolls before we set off.

taunting in FF14 is a toggle. . .

all tank rolls get it, you toggle it on, EVERYTHING you do generates more hate, single target, AoE, whatever, you just become a magnet by virtue of having the toggle on.

its so convenient and so easy to perform rolls because systems are in place to just make them work properly.



compared to tanking in ESO, a roll everyone knows has been lacking and full of fake tanks because people refuse to play it.

one of the main reasons?

on top of all standard tank things you have to do or know, running around in EVERY. SINGLE. PACK. of trash mobs trying to individually taunt each one is just not fun.

now i know you can just aoe down the trash and dont have to taunt it for the most part, but that kind of mentality is what spawned fake tanks in the first place, and if trash is trash because its trash, then why not let us AoE taunt then? most good tanks already have more to do then "just taunt" anyway, this just slims down the amount of tasks going on.


honestly playing another game where it was simple and just worked made me realize what a pain it is in ESO for no good reason, and how fluid and fun group content is when the rolls all have systems in place to just work nicely.

An area taunt would make things easier, for sure. I was doing Banished Cells 2 the other day and the group I was in just didn't have the damage to burn down the adds on the last boss. So I was frantically trying to keep threat on a half a dozen adds while the boss periodically lifted me into the air so I could watch helplessly from above while all my hard work went to waste and they scattered all over the place. It's a good thing I was in a good mood that day or I might would have broken something.

But others on here are right when they say giving tanks an AoE taunt would significantly decrease the challenge of this game.
So over all, I do believe it would be bad for the game. But that doesn't mean I can't sympathize, because there are some times when an area taunt would really spare the tank some agony.

Radiance

Tanks should run in first and use AoEs and Crowd control abilities to grab trash aggro. You only really need to taunt Boss and Big Boi Adds as has been said several times over and slot the Ranged undaunted taunt for the occasional straggler during wb fights.

[snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting and Rude Comment]

spartaxoxo

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

There will be a possibility to have AOE taunt in next update.

The "catch" is that you will have to use 5 pcs set for that - Tormentor set.
https://eso-sets.com/set/tormentor

There are 2 commonly available (for all classes) abilities that will trigger AOE taunt with this set: Stampede (Two Handed gap closer) and Brutal Pounce (Werewolf gap closer).

Now for your average tank it is not optimal at all and you lose an entire 5 pcs set for that. It is way better to use different set that will make you more tanky or give some group support.

But, as for a Werewolf tank... well... lets just say that it seems that ZOS wants it to be a thing.
Over recent updates they made a lot of changes that will make it possible. They changed Pack Leader and now it has 10% damage reduction and grants yourself and nearby allies Minor Courage (Weapon and Spell Damage boost). Next, they changed Tormentor set, so it now works with all types of gap closers (previously it only worked with "charge" gap closers).

And now, finally they slightly altered Stampede & Brutal Pounce - so it will trigger AOE taunt when you have Tormentor set equipped. For a WW tank it makes a lot of sense:
- WW skills are kinda expensive, so you can not "spam" taunt. On a regular tank - you can as those abilities are quite cheap.
- WW Brutal Pounce alters to Brutal Carnage for 5 seconds after you used it.... so again, you can not use a "taunt" very often.

All of those changes CAN NOT be accidental. ZOS had a vision this time and it is quite clear they want that. So please... if you will pug a dungeon via group finder and your tank transforms into Werewolf at some point (probably Pack Leader aka White wolf) - don't kick him/her as it is probably a "Tormentor" tank.

oooh this sounds fun

idk

The devs responded over six years ago to why there is no AoE taunt in this game. It is designed and intended to not need an AoE taunt and that has not changed in more than six years since the game launched.

In the OP agro mechanics of another game are explained and I think that is the issue. Trying to tank like one would in FF, SWTOR, or WoW will not work in ESO as their aggro mechanics are completely irrelevant here. Even if Zos caved in and added an AoE taunt the agro mechanics in FF are still irrelevant to ESO. Just like we learned to tank in those other games I suggest taking the time to figure out how to tank correctly in ESO.

Nefas

Not a dev but you have access to "AOE taunts" as of Greymoor:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY_RteVOlS8

Also, you don't need to taunt every single thing in a trash pull, learning to stack things is also beneficial to your gameplay as a tank in particular:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q49snx_a5ww

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjuZAN-jpRc

thegreat_one

If your DPS can't handle the trash and your healer is running around pulling the mobs all over hells half acre, well there is not much a AOE taunt is going to do.

Dps should be able to handle ALL of the stuffs, Healers stay put and heal, if the mobs run to the healer, your dps should be already trying to kill them,

Big stuff the tank taunts and hold until dps is freed.

Yeah I know this isn't Wow but you might have to actually try.

Grothdar always gives me an AOE "soft" taunt. IE i'm doing the most damage and they just come to me anyways.

AgaTheGreat

You should improve your tanking technique if you need an aoe taunt...

Scrollup

Jeremy wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

im all for a mechanic if i understand the reasoning behind it, but i just cannot see it.

for instance, a couple friends and I have been wandering through FF14 recently, and we pre researched and dedicated rolls before we set off.

taunting in FF14 is a toggle. . .

all tank rolls get it, you toggle it on, EVERYTHING you do generates more hate, single target, AoE, whatever, you just become a magnet by virtue of having the toggle on.

its so convenient and so easy to perform rolls because systems are in place to just make them work properly.



compared to tanking in ESO, a roll everyone knows has been lacking and full of fake tanks because people refuse to play it.

one of the main reasons?

on top of all standard tank things you have to do or know, running around in EVERY. SINGLE. PACK. of trash mobs trying to individually taunt each one is just not fun.

now i know you can just aoe down the trash and dont have to taunt it for the most part, but that kind of mentality is what spawned fake tanks in the first place, and if trash is trash because its trash, then why not let us AoE taunt then? most good tanks already have more to do then "just taunt" anyway, this just slims down the amount of tasks going on.


honestly playing another game where it was simple and just worked made me realize what a pain it is in ESO for no good reason, and how fluid and fun group content is when the rolls all have systems in place to just work nicely.

An area taunt would make things easier, for sure. I was doing Banished Cells 2 the other day and the group I was in just didn't have the damage to burn down the adds on the last boss. So I was frantically trying to keep threat on a half a dozen adds while the boss periodically lifted me into the air so I could watch helplessly from above while all my hard work went to waste and they scattered all over the place. It's a good thing I was in a good mood that day or I might would have broken something.

But others on here are right when they say giving tanks an AoE taunt would significantly decrease the challenge of this game.
So over all, I do believe it would be bad for the game. But that doesn't mean I can't sympathize, because there are some times when an area taunt would really spare the tank some agony.

You will get used to the sprint and spam taunt sword skills. Just don't over do it as you run out stamina (unless you eat food to boost stamina).

All the trash adds during pulls are weak, dont worry too much. Grabbing 7 out of 10 trash is good enough. Or grab all the large adds and dont worry about the small adds.

When fighting boss most important is Boss first, then the big add and leave the small add since your party can burn it down. If you low on stamina focus on the Boss and drink stam potion or use Heavy Attack to replenish stamina then grab the large add. I always squeeze in H/A in between to keep my stamina at 75% at least, since you will need to block the Boss and pay attention.

mairwen85

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

There will be a possibility to have AOE taunt in next update.

The "catch" is that you will have to use 5 pcs set for that - Tormentor set.
https://eso-sets.com/set/tormentor

There are 2 commonly available (for all classes) abilities that will trigger AOE taunt with this set: Stampede (Two Handed gap closer) and Brutal Pounce (Werewolf gap closer).

Now for your average tank it is not optimal at all and you lose an entire 5 pcs set for that. It is way better to use different set that will make you more tanky or give some group support.

But, as for a Werewolf tank... well... lets just say that it seems that ZOS wants it to be a thing.
Over recent updates they made a lot of changes that will make it possible. They changed Pack Leader and now it has 10% damage reduction and grants yourself and nearby allies Minor Courage (Weapon and Spell Damage boost). Next, they changed Tormentor set, so it now works with all types of gap closers (previously it only worked with "charge" gap closers).

And now, finally they slightly altered Stampede & Brutal Pounce - so it will trigger AOE taunt when you have Tormentor set equipped. For a WW tank it makes a lot of sense:
- WW skills are kinda expensive, so you can not "spam" taunt. On a regular tank - you can as those abilities are quite cheap.
- WW Brutal Pounce alters to Brutal Carnage for 5 seconds after you used it.... so again, you can not use a "taunt" very often.

All of those changes CAN NOT be accidental. ZOS had a vision this time and it is quite clear they want that. So please... if you will pug a dungeon via group finder and your tank transforms into Werewolf at some point (probably Pack Leader aka White wolf) - don't kick him/her as it is probably a "Tormentor" tank.

I hadn't considered this, but it makes perfect sense,and given the points raised in this post, WW tanking could be a more viable play option going forward.

newtinmpls

Because they decided not to put it in.

Let the tank go first, as an AoE functions as a soft taunt, then the enemies gather 'round and the tank throws a lockdown.

Any one "Leroy Jenkins"-ing attracts aggro, and ideally gets killed.

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO

On occasion, I tank with an AoE taunt on a Templar wearing a Tormentor set. I have been doing that for quite some time. It's certainly convenient. Taking an example from the discussion above, keeping almost any number of Daedroth adds taunted in BC2 becomes quite easy and is not a drain on resources. I just need to use Explosive Charge on the cluster of Daedroth every 15 seconds, and use Silver Leash or Inner Fire on any new ones that spawn.

However, in most other fights, this kind of "no-brains" tanking is quite boring, not only for me but for everyone involved, and I don't really enjoy doing it except in special situations and as a change of pace from other builds. I can use it to prevent a weak group from dying to random trash in normal dungeons, and to help an inexperienced group through a farm run in a vet dungeon, but (pardon the somewhat insensitive analogy) it's a crutch, not a wheelchair, as it won't stop people from dying to standing in stupid or ignoring mechanics. Healers and DDs still need to have their heads in the fight.

In many DLC vet dungeons, vet trials and even some normal trials, it becomes a liability to taunt everything in sight. Some trash mobs hit quite hard, and having too many of them focused on you will drain your resources very quickly, sometimes even effectively one-shot you because you take several strong hits in a short time. Not even a superhero healer will be able to supply all the resources you need, because there is a cooldown on synergies. A healer will also struggle to keep you alive when you are taking all the hits. The AoE and multi-target heals that are so pervasive to healing in ESO will be partly wasted when nobody else is hit, and the few single target heals that are available are not as strong.

I'm all for making Tormentor tanking available to every class, and werewolf tanking sounds like fun, but it's not going to be the new meta. The game is not designed for AoE tanking, and it's not nearly as useful as some of the posters in this thread seem to think.

Raudgrani

I guess the simple answer is: It would be too easy.

WastedJoker wrote: »

Also why does Frost staff heavy attack taunt!?

Really ruins the Warden Frost theme when you have to unskill just to make an item usable without messing things up

In what way would it ruin anything? Just don't put points into the passive that makes it a taunt. Yes, you lose a small pretty useless shield - but you can keep doing minimal damage without taking taunt. Problem solved.

UGotBenched91

tmbrinks wrote: »

this isn't FF?

Games are allowed to have different mechanics?

I think OP is just using that as a reference.

I mean this games mechanics are lacking anyway as roles aren’t defined enough.

UGotBenched91

pieratsos wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

What's there not to understand?
If you only need to press one button to taunt every enemy around you dumb tanking down to just holding block and maybe managing resources.
If you can't taunt everyone at once you need to actually think about who to taunt and who to taunt next and who needs a refresh on their taunt. The lack of aoe taunts makes tanking more engaging.

Yeah recycling taunts between mobs is so much engaging.

Ha there’s a lot of concepts this game has that people defend and claim as engaging. Looking at you stable.

Jeremy

Scrollup wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

im all for a mechanic if i understand the reasoning behind it, but i just cannot see it.

for instance, a couple friends and I have been wandering through FF14 recently, and we pre researched and dedicated rolls before we set off.

taunting in FF14 is a toggle. . .

all tank rolls get it, you toggle it on, EVERYTHING you do generates more hate, single target, AoE, whatever, you just become a magnet by virtue of having the toggle on.

its so convenient and so easy to perform rolls because systems are in place to just make them work properly.



compared to tanking in ESO, a roll everyone knows has been lacking and full of fake tanks because people refuse to play it.

one of the main reasons?

on top of all standard tank things you have to do or know, running around in EVERY. SINGLE. PACK. of trash mobs trying to individually taunt each one is just not fun.

now i know you can just aoe down the trash and dont have to taunt it for the most part, but that kind of mentality is what spawned fake tanks in the first place, and if trash is trash because its trash, then why not let us AoE taunt then? most good tanks already have more to do then "just taunt" anyway, this just slims down the amount of tasks going on.


honestly playing another game where it was simple and just worked made me realize what a pain it is in ESO for no good reason, and how fluid and fun group content is when the rolls all have systems in place to just work nicely.

An area taunt would make things easier, for sure. I was doing Banished Cells 2 the other day and the group I was in just didn't have the damage to burn down the adds on the last boss. So I was frantically trying to keep threat on a half a dozen adds while the boss periodically lifted me into the air so I could watch helplessly from above while all my hard work went to waste and they scattered all over the place. It's a good thing I was in a good mood that day or I might would have broken something.

But others on here are right when they say giving tanks an AoE taunt would significantly decrease the challenge of this game.
So over all, I do believe it would be bad for the game. But that doesn't mean I can't sympathize, because there are some times when an area taunt would really spare the tank some agony.

You will get used to the sprint and spam taunt sword skills. Just don't over do it as you run out stamina (unless you eat food to boost stamina).

All the trash adds during pulls are weak, dont worry too much. Grabbing 7 out of 10 trash is good enough. Or grab all the large adds and dont worry about the small adds.

When fighting boss most important is Boss first, then the big add and leave the small add since your party can burn it down. If you low on stamina focus on the Boss and drink stam potion or use Heavy Attack to replenish stamina then grab the large add. I always squeeze in H/A in between to keep my stamina at 75% at least, since you will need to block the Boss and pay attention.

I was using a range taunt so there was no need to sprint and my resources weren't a problem. The boss also didn't do much damage so I didn't have to worry about blocking him. I'm also not sure what you mean when you say big and small adds. There is only one size add on the fight that I could see - those big Daedorth things that look like walking alligators.

What made the fight especially hard for me to control was the boss randomly lifts a member of the group up into the air. So if you get unlucky and get that done to you repeatedly it's just impossible to maintain a taunt on a half dozen plus adds. There was barely enough time to maintain that many taunts even without some lengthy disabling effect floating you into space.

That fight seems to be uniquely hell to tank with a low damage group. I prefer tanking most if not all Veteran DLC boss fights to that particular fight if the group's damage is low. It's just annoying as ____.

idk

UGotBenched91 wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

this isn't FF?

Games are allowed to have different mechanics?

I think OP is just using that as a reference.

I mean this games mechanics are lacking anyway as roles aren’t defined enough.

The tank role is fairly well defined as they are the ones who taunt. Granted, anyone can slot a taunt but that does not mean the role is not defined.

UGotBenched91 wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

What's there not to understand?
If you only need to press one button to taunt every enemy around you dumb tanking down to just holding block and maybe managing resources.
If you can't taunt everyone at once you need to actually think about who to taunt and who to taunt next and who needs a refresh on their taunt. The lack of aoe taunts makes tanking more engaging.

Yeah recycling taunts between mobs is so much engaging.

Ha there’s a lot of concepts this game has that people defend and claim as engaging. Looking at you stable.

and an AoE taunt would make things much less engaging.

Granted, while I know everything in the game has been successfully tanked very well by a great many players I realize not everyone has built up the experience to tank the right way in ESO. However, giving them a crutch will not help them learn to tank correctly and wonder why they keep getting kicked from raid groups.

ssewallb14_ESO

I actually really like the design of the tank targeting critical mobs while the rest are basically "attrition" that get manged with healing and CCs.

It does however get a bit annoying in pugs when your teammates are clearly used to other games and start kiting around the the random skeleton that does 500 damage every 2 seconds.

zvavi

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

I actually really like the design of the tank targeting critical mobs while the rest are basically "attrition" that get manged with healing and CCs.

It does however get a bit annoying in pugs when your teammates are clearly used to other games and start kiting around the the random skeleton that does 500 damage every 2 seconds.

Even in other games you should kite it into the aoe damage...even bosses, there are not many things requiring you to kite far and fast.

BeefcakeManwich

A request for aoe taunts at the same time mentioning "fake tanks" lol.

Grianasteri

Part of the skill of being a good tank, is ones ability to efficiently and consistently taunt the enemies you need to.

Part of this ability, is knowing what to taunt, and what not to taunt. While its great if you taunt all the adds, its not necessary, most add pulls can be "passively" taunted to attack you simply by being the first person to engage, this allows you to pool them together somewhat, so that the dps can burn them down.

That said, I do like to taunt as much as I can when I tank, but only when able to. Its not efficient for the tank to be trying to taunt adds in busy, challenging content, their focus needs to be on the bosses, the mechanics & any larger more dangerous adds. Its usually up to the dps to deal with whats left, free from taunts.

The type of taunting you seem to favour, i.e just toggle and EVERYTHING gets taunted automatically, seems to me very easy and boring. ESO tanking requires you to actively engage in taunting and I think that is preferable by quite some way.

A taunt skill that has a small aoe, I could live with, as that would still require skill, timing, knowledge to use efficiently.

Daemons_Bane

WastedJoker wrote: »

Also why does Frost staff heavy attack taunt!?

Really ruins the Warden Frost theme when you have to unskill just to make an item usable without messing things up

This is something that bothers me too.. I live in Scandinavia, so I would love to play a frost mage.. But noooope, I can be a taunt mage instead -_-

Eifleber

Wing wrote: »

can we get a dev response as to why AoE taunting is not a thing in this game?

Never seen a developer post on the forum .. so I wont bet on it

pauld1_ESO

You may not "need" it but tanking feels so much less satisfying without it. That is 100% what it comes down to for me.

josiahva

This again? Really? I enjoy tanking as it is in ESO. The fact is you actually have to think about how to best control the battlefield and prioritize what gets taunted. It sounds like the OP simply doesnt not want to do the job...that's fine...leave it to those who enjoy tanking.

EvilAutoTech

I foresee an aoe taunt becoming a thing shortly after spell crafting is introduced, so probably never.

EdmondDontes

AOE taunting would be game breaking unbalancing. ...and there are sets that proc on taunting, that would make an AOE taunt even more unbalanced.

idk

Eifleber wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

can we get a dev response as to why AoE taunting is not a thing in this game?

Never seen a developer post on the forum .. so I wont bet on it

@Eifleber

They have but rarely is it warranted. This thread is a great example because the devs actually did comment on this already.

Edit: Let us not forget that we have over six years of many successful dungeon clears without an AoE taunt that it is pretty clear Zos has no need or reason to explain why the game does not have an AoE taunt. It is clearly not needed.

Edit: It is hard to find specific information from over six years ago as some of it is no longer available or does not come up in searches. Here is a link to a fan site that explains dungeons for a beginner player. It appears to be from 2015 but the information regarding the devs intention that tanks are not to gank everything in a dungeon has not changed since the game launched.

https://www.elderscrollsguides.com/dungeons-guide/

I think that is where some to mistake what a tank needs to do. It is not all that different from other games where a tank's focus is to get the attention of the stronger more dangerous NPCs while the DDs take out the weaker ones first. ESO has given everyone, regardless of role or perceived role, the means to defend and kill the weaker trash mobs that aggro on them. If they find that challenging then that is greater resistance pushing a player to learn more about combat in ESO.

TheGreatBlackBear

ESO is mechanically behind most modern MMOs so I'm not surprised.