Burning Light, Nerfed on Multiple Targets, Stacks, Cooldowns & Tooltips

Altyrann

From some quick testing, it looks like while this will be broadly on par with Live for PvE on single target, it will be significantly worse for multiple targets.

If I just spam Puncturing Sweeps on more than one target dummy (no other skills used) it will proc once in total for each cast of Sweeps. This suggests either that stacks are on your character and can't be built up too close together, or that stacks are per target but cleared from all targets when BL procs. In either case this means that rather than the current situation on live where you could get procs close together (albeit limited by the cooldown) there will now be no scaling for this on multiple targets, which seems very strange when the three Aedric abilities most Magplar will use are all AoE (Spear, Sweeps and Ultimate).

Is this intended, and as ever, please could we get tooltips that explain how abilities work without leaving out things like this?

Firstmep

Altyrann wrote: »

From some quick testing, it looks like while this will be broadly on par with Live for PvE on single target, it will be significantly worse for multiple targets.

If I just spam Puncturing Sweeps on more than one target dummy (no other skills used) it will proc once in total for each cast of Sweeps. This suggests either that stacks are on your character and can't be built up too close together, or that stacks are per target but cleared from all targets when BL procs. In either case this means that rather than the current situation on live where you could get procs close together (albeit limited by the cooldown) there will now be no scaling for this on multiple targets, which seems very strange when the three Aedric abilities most Magplar will use are all AoE (Spear, Sweeps and Ultimate).

Is this intended, and as ever, please could we get tooltips that explain how abilities work without leaving out things like this?

Burning light has a 0.5 second internal cooldown on live, apparently this is the same on pts.

I can bet you anything when they made the change for pts, they did a couple of parses on a single target dummy and called it a day.

Yes, it will be a massive nerf to templar aoe damage, which btw already isnt that great.

For magplar, outside of cresent sweep, you really only have procset options, and for stamplar its basically just db.

The aoe damage on jabs/sweeps is already negliable, its supposed to do their "aoe standard" but it doesnt account for the fact that its a channel, so something like whirling blades or impulse will deal more damage in aoe.

Altyrann

Firstmep wrote: »

Altyrann wrote: »

From some quick testing, it looks like while this will be broadly on par with Live for PvE on single target, it will be significantly worse for multiple targets.

If I just spam Puncturing Sweeps on more than one target dummy (no other skills used) it will proc once in total for each cast of Sweeps. This suggests either that stacks are on your character and can't be built up too close together, or that stacks are per target but cleared from all targets when BL procs. In either case this means that rather than the current situation on live where you could get procs close together (albeit limited by the cooldown) there will now be no scaling for this on multiple targets, which seems very strange when the three Aedric abilities most Magplar will use are all AoE (Spear, Sweeps and Ultimate).

Is this intended, and as ever, please could we get tooltips that explain how abilities work without leaving out things like this?

Burning light has a 0.5 second internal cooldown on live, apparently this is the same on pts.

I can bet you anything when they made the change for pts, they did a couple of parses on a single target dummy and called it a day.

Yes, it will be a massive nerf to templar aoe damage, which btw already isnt that great.

For magplar, outside of cresent sweep, you really only have procset options, and for stamplar its basically just db.

The aoe damage on jabs/sweeps is already negliable, its supposed to do their "aoe standard" but it doesnt account for the fact that its a channel, so something like whirling blades or impulse will deal more damage in aoe.

Looks like that cooldown is now on building up stacks rather than the actual proc which is even worse. If I stand two dummies next to each other and use sweeps twice, BL will proc on the final hit of the first cast and final hit of the second cast only.

I don't know why this isn't either stacks and cooldown per target, doing AoE damage or if those options are too much for the server, just changed to buff damage from Aedric skills.

Firstmep

Altyrann wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Altyrann wrote: »

From some quick testing, it looks like while this will be broadly on par with Live for PvE on single target, it will be significantly worse for multiple targets.

If I just spam Puncturing Sweeps on more than one target dummy (no other skills used) it will proc once in total for each cast of Sweeps. This suggests either that stacks are on your character and can't be built up too close together, or that stacks are per target but cleared from all targets when BL procs. In either case this means that rather than the current situation on live where you could get procs close together (albeit limited by the cooldown) there will now be no scaling for this on multiple targets, which seems very strange when the three Aedric abilities most Magplar will use are all AoE (Spear, Sweeps and Ultimate).

Is this intended, and as ever, please could we get tooltips that explain how abilities work without leaving out things like this?

Burning light has a 0.5 second internal cooldown on live, apparently this is the same on pts.

I can bet you anything when they made the change for pts, they did a couple of parses on a single target dummy and called it a day.

Yes, it will be a massive nerf to templar aoe damage, which btw already isnt that great.

For magplar, outside of cresent sweep, you really only have procset options, and for stamplar its basically just db.

The aoe damage on jabs/sweeps is already negliable, its supposed to do their "aoe standard" but it doesnt account for the fact that its a channel, so something like whirling blades or impulse will deal more damage in aoe.

Looks like that cooldown is now on building up stacks rather than the actual proc which is even worse. If I stand two dummies next to each other and use sweeps twice, BL will proc on the final hit of the first cast and final hit of the second cast only.

I don't know why this isn't either stacks and cooldown per target, doing AoE damage or if those options are too much for the server, just changed to buff damage from Aedric skills.

No, if there was a 0.5 second cooldown on gaining stacks, you wouldnt get a burning light proc at the end of a jabs channel(which you do, on pts).
The stacks are per target, but as @Cinbri has pointed out, when you proc burning light on 1 target, the stacks are cleared from other targets.
Coupled with the 0.5 sec cd on actually getting burning light to do damage, this means, when hitting multiple targets you can only proc BL once per second at best.
While on single target you can techniqually, you can use for example blazing spear, and get extra stacks, that dont get lost, as you just get the burning light proc as soon as you hit 4.

Altyrann

Firstmep wrote: »

Altyrann wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Altyrann wrote: »

From some quick testing, it looks like while this will be broadly on par with Live for PvE on single target, it will be significantly worse for multiple targets.

If I just spam Puncturing Sweeps on more than one target dummy (no other skills used) it will proc once in total for each cast of Sweeps. This suggests either that stacks are on your character and can't be built up too close together, or that stacks are per target but cleared from all targets when BL procs. In either case this means that rather than the current situation on live where you could get procs close together (albeit limited by the cooldown) there will now be no scaling for this on multiple targets, which seems very strange when the three Aedric abilities most Magplar will use are all AoE (Spear, Sweeps and Ultimate).

Is this intended, and as ever, please could we get tooltips that explain how abilities work without leaving out things like this?

Burning light has a 0.5 second internal cooldown on live, apparently this is the same on pts.

I can bet you anything when they made the change for pts, they did a couple of parses on a single target dummy and called it a day.

Yes, it will be a massive nerf to templar aoe damage, which btw already isnt that great.

For magplar, outside of cresent sweep, you really only have procset options, and for stamplar its basically just db.

The aoe damage on jabs/sweeps is already negliable, its supposed to do their "aoe standard" but it doesnt account for the fact that its a channel, so something like whirling blades or impulse will deal more damage in aoe.

Looks like that cooldown is now on building up stacks rather than the actual proc which is even worse. If I stand two dummies next to each other and use sweeps twice, BL will proc on the final hit of the first cast and final hit of the second cast only.

I don't know why this isn't either stacks and cooldown per target, doing AoE damage or if those options are too much for the server, just changed to buff damage from Aedric skills.

No, if there was a 0.5 second cooldown on gaining stacks, you wouldnt get a burning light proc at the end of a jabs channel(which you do, on pts).
The stacks are per target, but as @Cinbri has pointed out, when you proc burning light on 1 target, the stacks are cleared from other targets.
Coupled with the 0.5 sec cd on actually getting burning light to do damage, this means, when hitting multiple targets you can only proc BL once per second at best.
While on single target you can techniqually, you can use for example blazing spear, and get extra stacks, that dont get lost, as you just get the burning light proc as soon as you hit 4.

Thanks - two posts there and I already have more clarity than from the PTS notes and tooltip. So ends up meaning it could be half what it is on live in large groups given you could broadly proc on CD on live when hitting large packs?

OlumoGarbag

But can you somehow time your burning light proc now?

Altyrann

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

But can you somehow time your burning light proc now?

Think the window you have to get consecutive hits within is small enough that this would be tough.

Firstmep

Altyrann wrote: »

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

But can you somehow time your burning light proc now?

Think the window you have to get consecutive hits within is small enough that this would be tough.

Its 1 second.

Altyrann

Firstmep wrote: »

Altyrann wrote: »

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

But can you somehow time your burning light proc now?

Think the window you have to get consecutive hits within is small enough that this would be tough.

Its 1 second.

From messing about on PTS it seems a little over a second. For example you can proc it by spamming Radiant Ward 4 times (checking combat metrics the highest gap I had between them was 1.15s). I assume they've allowed a little buffer in there to account for lag / weaving.

Firstmep

Altyrann wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Altyrann wrote: »

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

But can you somehow time your burning light proc now?

Think the window you have to get consecutive hits within is small enough that this would be tough.

Its 1 second.

From messing about on PTS it seems a little over a second. For example you can proc it by spamming Radiant Ward 4 times (checking combat metrics the highest gap I had between them was 1.15s). I assume they've allowed a little buffer in there to account for lag / weaving.

Pts server is pretty laggy, i wouldnt trust any timestamps, combat metrics and the server might disagree on when the ability actually hits.

WhyMustItBe

Apparently this is the "destroy Templar identity and damage" update. I guess last time it was Nightblade. Man my favorite class is going to suck next patch. Between all the nerfs and losing the heal from Ritual of Retribution I don't think I will even feel like a Templar anymore.

Oh well I guess.

Koubo

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

Apparently this is the "destroy Templar identity and damage" update. I guess last time it was Nightblade. Man my favorite class is going to suck next patch. Between all the nerfs and losing the heal from Ritual of Retribution I don't think I will even feel like a Templar anymore.

Oh well I guess.

I feel your pain. Time to reroll, even if i dont really like it. They just dont care about all our feedback... now we know we will be doomed for the next 3 months (or more)

Gorreck

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

Apparently this is the "destroy Templar identity and damage" update. I guess last time it was Nightblade. Man my favorite class is going to suck next patch. Between all the nerfs and losing the heal from Ritual of Retribution I don't think I will even feel like a Templar anymore.

Oh well I guess.

Don't forget the PvP "test" (which we all know will end up staying live as is).

WhyMustItBe

Gorreck wrote: »

Don't forget the PvP "test" (which we all know will end up staying live as is).

I sincerely hope not. A 3 second forced cooldown on Templar jabs would basically make our only class spammable... NOT SPAMMABLE. Man, can we please stop smashing the entire game for everyone with a lurch hammer just because a few guys in PVP have a "meta?"

I would rather keep class identity, smooth engaging combat, and interesting mechanics and have ZOS CEO's just take a few less millions in their bonus check this quarter so they can invest in some new PVP servers instead of trying to gut the entire game looking for performance tweaks on outdated or under performing hardware behind every core system.

O.o

ebix_

Firstmep wrote: »

Altyrann wrote: »

From some quick testing, it looks like while this will be broadly on par with Live for PvE on single target, it will be significantly worse for multiple targets.

If I just spam Puncturing Sweeps on more than one target dummy (no other skills used) it will proc once in total for each cast of Sweeps. This suggests either that stacks are on your character and can't be built up too close together, or that stacks are per target but cleared from all targets when BL procs. In either case this means that rather than the current situation on live where you could get procs close together (albeit limited by the cooldown) there will now be no scaling for this on multiple targets, which seems very strange when the three Aedric abilities most Magplar will use are all AoE (Spear, Sweeps and Ultimate).

Is this intended, and as ever, please could we get tooltips that explain how abilities work without leaving out things like this?

Burning light has a 0.5 second internal cooldown on live, apparently this is the same on pts.

I can bet you anything when they made the change for pts, they did a couple of parses on a single target dummy and called it a day.

Yes, it will be a massive nerf to templar aoe damage, which btw already isnt that great.

For magplar, outside of cresent sweep, you really only have procset options, and for stamplar its basically just db.

The aoe damage on jabs/sweeps is already negliable, its supposed to do their "aoe standard" but it doesnt account for the fact that its a channel, so something like whirling blades or impulse will deal more damage in aoe.

thats where you are wrong ,
to test something on a dummy first they have to open the game , which they never do .