A Sincere Request that would Make ESO 9.2 Million Times Awesomer

Zardayne

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Why do players want more challenging content ... when they don’t participate in the challenging content that already exists in ESO??

I participate in the most challenging of content weekly this game has to offer..PVP (with lag!). For the most part as an ex DAOC player, it's what has kept me here for 6 years.

I feel some players want more challenging content in PVE that does not require having to wait around forming a 12 man group to do. I mean just waiting for groups to form for vet dungeons takes quite a while normally, even when I'm on my healer. A lot of times personally, after work, I don't have time to get into a trial. I que up for a random or specific vet dungeon for sets I'm hunting for and enjoy the overland world I was given (which is about 80+% of the games content and more they sell me on with each new paid expansion). Let's be honest there's only so many times you can run the same vet dungeons and trials until it just gets old but I will make new characters and rerun all of the overland quests many times and I'd like to at least adjust the delve difficulty for myself or possibly even a friend to duo. Many MMOs have done this before (Anarchy Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Age of Conan, City of Heroes), so it's not something new. Right now it's bad enough questing as a vet solo even on a new character naked, with no cp, and I've got myself blindfolded behind the keyboard but it's mind numbingly boring questing with a friend. At least with adjustable delve difficulty I could feel some sort of accomplishment finishing them instead of speed running through like a rat after the cheese at the maze's end.

Just to add, when most folks are asking for some difficulty I don't believe they're asking for dark souls difficulty, they are just wanting a sense of some danger which gives them the feeling the overcame the odds and emerged the hero. We don't watch movies for two hours of small fights and buildup to have the hero approach the villain, run him through without some dialogue and an epic fight, and walk off screen as the credits roll at the end. We expect that final fight to be worth our time. It needs to get the blood pumping and get you on the edge of your seat.

TheImperfect

No and you don't need to do the same dungeon over and over, that's your choice. There are lots more dungeons, public dungeons and world bosses to do along with harrowstorms and dragons. I don't want to feel like overland is a chore and don't want Cadwells gold to take 500 years to do.

Grianasteri

Yes absolutely. Either introducing scaling, or difficulty toggles of some kind.

Scaling would seem more problematic for general overland content. While a toggle function would seem pretty straight forward to implement at least for questing.

Grianasteri

Jeremy wrote: »

I'd like to see something like this too.

My suggestion would be to just add an optional veteran zone for each area (similar to how they already do with dungeons) that scales to the current max CP. I'm not asking for every mob to have a million health and instant death kills. But some added challenge would go a long way to making questing/exploring on this game a little more interesting. At least with me it would.

Yes, I have written about this a few times across similar threads. Originally what they could have done is designed every single zone, with normal and veteran geographic areas where adds and bosses are more difficult. Each zone story could progress through the difficulty content as it went.

Rudrani

The difficulty toggle option is an awesome idea!

It’s not that challenging stuff doesn’t exist already (vCRhm vAShm, etc) it’s just that the challenging stuff that does exist is small and repetitive, especially compared to the immense, immense amount of interesting and diverse overland stuff that is rediculiusly waaaaay to easy for anyone who even knows what vCRhm is.

ThePedge

SC2 is meant to be challenging and rewarding?

Rudrani

Ps - a lot of readers get hung up on the mention of spindleclutch. I picked that as an example because literally I think I have done that dungeon tens of thousands of times - because in if the things we do everyday is the undaunted pledges. And sc just seems to always come up (or some other equally played out base game low level dungeon)

If they at least put a toggle on the undaunted quests that would afftect both difficulty and the transmutes rewarded, it would at least give a purpose to the grind.

mikemacon

1. No
2. No.

Dovakhan

Another case of "OMG I PLAY THISZ WAY SO EVERYBODY SHOULD DO IT, TOO!". Figures

I mostly play solo overland, and while I'd like to play the quests in a group someday, I do like to do it alone most of the times and calmly enjoy the story without the enemies being bullet-sponges.

If I want challenges and great rewards, that's what dungeons and trials are for.

mairwen85

Elsonso wrote: »

Nah. Overland is not a destination. It is the backdrop for the journey. The only exception would be world bosses and zone events. It does not need to be "buffed" so that it is a challenge.

I don't disagree, but at the same time, I don't feel it has to be that way explicitly. Look at all the disparate systems we have for gear, CP, attributes, skill points, skill lines, and yet most people try to spend the least amount of time 'leveling' as they can because they want to get into endgame; they want the endgame experience, and, unfortunately, the endgame has a tendency to disappoint because it's lacking content, and scope, and gravitas, and after all the time invested in getting there, effort put to grindy skill lines and tediously drawn out quest lines, sneeze and it's dead chapter bosses, it's anti-climactic. Yet at the very same time, there is a continuous influx of content servicing the earlier portion--I know that overland is technically not levelling content, it's filler, but there is mountains of it and it is best played during the levelling part of your character's life cycle, there is still a tiny bit of effort required before you've started expanding your character. I'd like to see ESO re-think the alt system, and the levelling system, ultimately looking at decreasing the time spent but making overland a more meaningfully pre-endgame filler experience that not only gives you the tools needed, but the enjoyment of having done something with weight; take the required time investment out of the leveling process and put it into (pre)endgame instead. Overland has just become a grind with no difficulty to overcome or simply receiving meaningless achievements. Its not too much of a stretch to expand the story into endgame, retain some of how overland is currently, but with branches offering more complexity and challenge. It's unfair to the developers, and the players to keep churning out zones that players melt through as quick as they are provided or as quickly as possible to get experience. With at least some cross-over, equal effort and time can be invested in more tactical PvP, creative and broader PvE.

ForfiniteStories

*max CP with legendary gear composed of several bonus sets, all optimized for best perfomance*

"OMG, why is the game so easy now!?"

mairwen85

ForfiniteStories wrote: »

*max CP with legendary gear composed of several bonus sets, all optimized for best perfomance*

"OMG, why is the game so easy now!?"

Optimized for group performance, ie sacrifice survivability and sustain for damage as you'll be receiving those from another group member, but even having sacrificed all that, overland is still easy. In other words, you don't need health, recovery, or heals, or anything to actually absorb or mitigate damage...

"OMG, why are vet dlc so hard now!?"

Elsonso

mairwen85 wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Nah. Overland is not a destination. It is the backdrop for the journey. The only exception would be world bosses and zone events. It does not need to be "buffed" so that it is a challenge.

I don't disagree, but at the same time, I don't feel it has to be that way explicitly. Look at all the disparate systems we have for gear, CP, attributes, skill points, skill lines, and yet most people try to spend the least amount of time 'leveling' as they can because they want to get into endgame; they want the endgame experience, and, unfortunately, the endgame has a tendency to disappoint because it's lacking content, and scope, and gravitas, and after all the time invested in getting there, effort put to grindy skill lines and tediously drawn out quest lines, sneeze and it's dead chapter bosses, it's anti-climactic. Yet at the very same time, there is a continuous influx of content servicing the earlier portion--I know that overland is technically not levelling content, it's filler, but there is mountains of it and it is best played during the levelling part of your character's life cycle, there is still a tiny bit of effort required before you've started expanding your character. I'd like to see ESO re-think the alt system, and the levelling system, ultimately looking at decreasing the time spent but making overland a more meaningfully pre-endgame filler experience that not only gives you the tools needed, but the enjoyment of having done something with weight; take the required time investment out of the leveling process and put it into (pre)endgame instead. Overland has just become a grind with no difficulty to overcome or simply receiving meaningless achievements. Its not too much of a stretch to expand the story into endgame, retain some of how overland is currently, but with branches offering more complexity and challenge. It's unfair to the developers, and the players to keep churning out zones that players melt through as quick as they are provided or as quickly as possible to get experience. With at least some cross-over, equal effort and time can be invested in more tactical PvP, creative and broader PvE.

Honestly, no it does not have to be that way. It is that way, though, and quite deliberately, from the looks of it.

Since One Tamriel, overland is clearly not supposed to be end game content. They pretty much removed that and the one and only end game zone was no more. Difficult content was largely moved into the darker recesses of the world.

I am sensing that the issue presented is one where someone rushed to the "end game", consumed it, and then asked "is that all there is?". They see all of this "overland" as untapped potential that could be turned into more "end game" for them to play.

Coming from an ES background, I treated this more like another ES game, rather than an MMO game, and so I took the content much more slowly. The slower route took me all over Tamriel before I really even cared about "end game". I don't expect that the overland is going to be more challenging when I return to those places than it was the first time I passed through.


(fixed)

mairwen85

Elsonso wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Nah. Overland is not a destination. It is the backdrop for the journey. The only exception would be world bosses and zone events. It does not need to be "buffed" so that it is a challenge.

I don't disagree, but at the same time, I don't feel it has to be that way explicitly. Look at all the disparate systems we have for gear, CP, attributes, skill points, skill lines, and yet most people try to spend the least amount of time 'leveling' as they can because they want to get into endgame; they want the endgame experience, and, unfortunately, the endgame has a tendency to disappoint because it's lacking content, and scope, and gravitas, and after all the time invested in getting there, effort put to grindy skill lines and tediously drawn out quest lines, sneeze and it's dead chapter bosses, it's anti-climactic. Yet at the very same time, there is a continuous influx of content servicing the earlier portion--I know that overland is technically not levelling content, it's filler, but there is mountains of it and it is best played during the levelling part of your character's life cycle, there is still a tiny bit of effort required before you've started expanding your character. I'd like to see ESO re-think the alt system, and the levelling system, ultimately looking at decreasing the time spent but making overland a more meaningfully pre-endgame filler experience that not only gives you the tools needed, but the enjoyment of having done something with weight; take the required time investment out of the leveling process and put it into (pre)endgame instead. Overland has just become a grind with no difficulty to overcome or simply receiving meaningless achievements. Its not too much of a stretch to expand the story into endgame, retain some of how overland is currently, but with branches offering more complexity and challenge. It's unfair to the developers, and the players to keep churning out zones that players melt through as quick as they are provided or as quickly as possible to get experience. With at least some cross-over, equal effort and time can be invested in more tactical PvP, creative and broader PvE.

Honestly, no it does not have to be that way. It is that way, though, and quite deliberately, from the looks of it.

Since One Tamriel, overland is clearly not supposed to be end game content. They pretty much removed that and the one and only end game zone was no more. Difficult content was largely moved into the darker recesses of the world.

I am sensing that the issue presented is one where someone rushed to the "end game", consumed it, and then asked "is that all there is?". They see all of this "overland" as untapped potential that could be turned into more "end game" for them to play.

Coming from an ES background, I treated this more like another ES game, rather than an MMO game, and so I took the content much more slowly. The slower route took me all over Tamriel before I really even cared about "end game". I don't expect that the overland is going to be more challenging when I return to those places than it was the first time I passed through.


(fixed)

My first play-through with my first character, I did as you did, but here we are several years on and despite that, I can't help but feel there should be more to overland than what there is right now; it needs a bit more meat on those bones

kargen27

Rudrani wrote: »

The difficulty toggle option is an awesome idea!

It’s not that challenging stuff doesn’t exist already (vCRhm vAShm, etc) it’s just that the challenging stuff that does exist is small and repetitive, especially compared to the immense, immense amount of interesting and diverse overland stuff that is rediculiusly waaaaay to easy for anyone who even knows what vCRhm is.

It would have to be a toggle on character abilities and not on the content. Otherwise how do you handle when two players are facing the same mob but are playing at different difficulty levels.

Zardayne

mairwen85 wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Nah. Overland is not a destination. It is the backdrop for the journey. The only exception would be world bosses and zone events. It does not need to be "buffed" so that it is a challenge.

I don't disagree, but at the same time, I don't feel it has to be that way explicitly. Look at all the disparate systems we have for gear, CP, attributes, skill points, skill lines, and yet most people try to spend the least amount of time 'leveling' as they can because they want to get into endgame; they want the endgame experience, and, unfortunately, the endgame has a tendency to disappoint because it's lacking content, and scope, and gravitas, and after all the time invested in getting there, effort put to grindy skill lines and tediously drawn out quest lines, sneeze and it's dead chapter bosses, it's anti-climactic. Yet at the very same time, there is a continuous influx of content servicing the earlier portion--I know that overland is technically not levelling content, it's filler, but there is mountains of it and it is best played during the levelling part of your character's life cycle, there is still a tiny bit of effort required before you've started expanding your character. I'd like to see ESO re-think the alt system, and the levelling system, ultimately looking at decreasing the time spent but making overland a more meaningfully pre-endgame filler experience that not only gives you the tools needed, but the enjoyment of having done something with weight; take the required time investment out of the leveling process and put it into (pre)endgame instead. Overland has just become a grind with no difficulty to overcome or simply receiving meaningless achievements. Its not too much of a stretch to expand the story into endgame, retain some of how overland is currently, but with branches offering more complexity and challenge. It's unfair to the developers, and the players to keep churning out zones that players melt through as quick as they are provided or as quickly as possible to get experience. With at least some cross-over, equal effort and time can be invested in more tactical PvP, creative and broader PvE.

Honestly, no it does not have to be that way. It is that way, though, and quite deliberately, from the looks of it.

Since One Tamriel, overland is clearly not supposed to be end game content. They pretty much removed that and the one and only end game zone was no more. Difficult content was largely moved into the darker recesses of the world.

I am sensing that the issue presented is one where someone rushed to the "end game", consumed it, and then asked "is that all there is?". They see all of this "overland" as untapped potential that could be turned into more "end game" for them to play.

Coming from an ES background, I treated this more like another ES game, rather than an MMO game, and so I took the content much more slowly. The slower route took me all over Tamriel before I really even cared about "end game". I don't expect that the overland is going to be more challenging when I return to those places than it was the first time I passed through.


(fixed)

My first play-through with my first character, I did as you did, but here we are several years on and despite that, I can't help but feel there should be more to overland than what there is right now; it needs a bit more meat on those bones

Especially when they sell us veteran players on large chunks of overland content with each expansion that's not really made for us to enjoy unless you're looking for some light reading material before bed. What is it I've heard for years "All of overland is for new players learning the game. Play naked or Cpless or keep running trials where you belong". 80-90% of all content is theirs?!?

Elsonso

Zardayne wrote: »

Especially when they sell us veteran players on large chunks of overland content with each expansion that's not really made for us to enjoy unless you're looking for some light reading material before bed. What is it I've heard for years "All of overland is for new players learning the game. Play naked or Cpless or keep running trials where you belong". 80-90% of all content is theirs?!?

They aren't selling Chapter things like Western Skyrim to people as end game. Chapters have things for everyone to do. Stories. Quests. Activities. Maybe a class. Maybe a skill. New players. Old players. High level. Low level.

The dungeons and trials are aimed more at end game players. I won't say that is "where you belong" but it seems to be the content that ZOS wants to give end game players.

Personally, I don't get the point of Naked or no-CP, but I am fine suggesting it if that sounds like something someone would want to do.

mairwen85

Elsonso wrote: »

Zardayne wrote: »

Especially when they sell us veteran players on large chunks of overland content with each expansion that's not really made for us to enjoy unless you're looking for some light reading material before bed. What is it I've heard for years "All of overland is for new players learning the game. Play naked or Cpless or keep running trials where you belong". 80-90% of all content is theirs?!?

They aren't selling Chapter things like Western Skyrim to people as end game. Chapters have things for everyone to do. Stories. Quests. Activities. Maybe a class. Maybe a skill. New players. Old players. High level. Low level.

The dungeons and trials are aimed more at end game players. I won't say that is "where you belong" but it seems to be the content that ZOS wants to give end game players.

Personally, I don't get the point of Naked or no-CP, but I am fine suggesting it if that sounds like something someone would want to do.

And that's why I made the post I did earlier. Again, you're not wrong, that's how it is, but it's not how it has to be, and given the recurrence of threads like this one, there is clearly demand for something.. Some deviation or middle ground surely? Perhaps not exactly what or how I suggested in my previous post, but something that at the very least meets the demand in some form.

Rudrani

kargen27 wrote: »

Rudrani wrote: »

The difficulty toggle option is an awesome idea!

It’s not that challenging stuff doesn’t exist already (vCRhm vAShm, etc) it’s just that the challenging stuff that does exist is small and repetitive, especially compared to the immense, immense amount of interesting and diverse overland stuff that is rediculiusly waaaaay to easy for anyone who even knows what vCRhm is.

It would have to be a toggle on character abilities and not on the content. Otherwise how do you handle when two players are facing the same mob but are playing at different difficulty levels.

Vet INSTANCE of a zone?