Necros are way to "Must have" for Endgame Raiding caused by Major Vuln, change my mind

CleymenZero

Other reasons

Nerf it and you might have to nerf some content to make achievements attainable.

Don't have Godslayer yet but remove major vuln from a group that's close to getting GS and you just killed their chances.

These achievements were designed factoring in Major Vuln in the balance.

Before anyone has a knee jerk reaction, I didn't say GS is impossible to obtain without Major Vuln, you would just greatly reduce the amount of clears without it.

Stahlor

katorga wrote: »

Why on earth would I want to nerf a a major buff (and the class that provides it) that lets my group, and myself do 30% more damage?

I don't care how I get it, I like it

Although the question was PVE related - it seems like mainly the PVPers are voting here! That's the reason...

IneedaDollar

CleymenZero wrote: »

Nerf it and you might have to nerf some content to make achievements attainable.

Don't have Godslayer yet but remove major vuln from a group that's close to getting GS and you just killed their chances.

These achievements were designed factoring in Major Vuln in the balance.

Before anyone has a knee jerk reaction, I didn't say GS is impossible to obtain without Major Vuln, you would just greatly reduce the amount of clears without it.

Lmao wr is like <22min
Time is no problem in any trial
Damage is way to high atm

IonicKai

Yes, but it's fine

IneedaDollar wrote: »

CleymenZero wrote: »

Nerf it and you might have to nerf some content to make achievements attainable.

Don't have Godslayer yet but remove major vuln from a group that's close to getting GS and you just killed their chances.

These achievements were designed factoring in Major Vuln in the balance.

Before anyone has a knee jerk reaction, I didn't say GS is impossible to obtain without Major Vuln, you would just greatly reduce the amount of clears without it.

Lmao wr is like <22min
Time is no problem in any trial
Damage is way to high atm

I would love to see a 22min clear without add ons. Don't forget that console doesn't have the same optimization that PC does for this.

sirpz

Yes, but it's fine

nsmurfer wrote: »

@SlimeBro1 every score pushing groups uses 5-6 necro DDs out 8. How is it balanced?

optimal is 4. any more causes overlap and useless ults, it adds diversity and making sure some classes are utilized. It also leaves openings for necro tanks + healers, rather than templars and dks dominating that field. Every class has its value it brings to the group and necro tanks specifically are very utility oriented.

sirpz

Yes, but it's fine

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

The fact that yes is winning is sad.

I main a necro. Its my favorite class. But we are far from any sort of over powered.

The tradeoff for that Major Vuln is:

-No execute ability
-no gap closers or Major Expedition ability (we are the slowest class)
-a spammable that requires 3 casts for a benefit, meaning most will stick with weapon skill spammables
-no burst heals for anyone outside of ourselves
-literally 0 buffs outside of Major Resolve and the Goliath transformation

Necros give up a lot and all we get in return is AOE breach & fracture OR the opportunity to use our own synergy - for mag users only, Major Vuln, Goliath transformation, and the 3 man insta-rez which is situational at best.

[snip] ive been maining necrotank since march and necros hands down have some of the best utility out of any class and get hella buffs, not even gonna bother with your other points which are mostly wrong aswell.

[Edited to remove Rude Comments]

Eifleber

Yes, and the Major Vuln debuff should be nerfed to 15% ( minor is 8%, major is most of the time 2x minor )

Lately I even noticed in zone chat that some guilds are actively recruiting more MagCros.

IonicKai

Yes, but it's fine

Eifleber wrote: »

Lately I even noticed in zone chat that some guilds are actively recruiting more MagCros.

That's probably because everyone is trying to switch away from them because they are clunky and will likely be buff bots next patch

Atherakhia

IonicKai wrote: »

Eifleber wrote: »

Lately I even noticed in zone chat that some guilds are actively recruiting more MagCros.

That's probably because everyone is trying to switch away from them because they are clunky and will likely be buff bots next patch

I agree.

Necromancers aren't the most fun class to play (highly subjective, I know) and is also one of the lower mag DPS class options and probably the worst PvP class in this game by far. You then consider a progression group needs upwards of 3 Necros per group because of the topics discussed in this thread, and you are left with not enough Necros to go around.

Thus why I don't think any single class should have any unique buff/debuff. This doesn't mean every class should be identical or have access to everything mind you. There's no reason Major Vuln can't be moved to 1 or 2 other ultimates. But keep in mind that depending on where they move this, you'll likely end up with killing off the PvE MagCro without considerable changes for the class elsewhere.

stevenyaub16_ESO

Yes, and the Major Vuln debuff should be nerfed to 15% ( minor is 8%, major is most of the time 2x minor )

Even at 15% would still end up as 3 necros per raid. The problem is the debuff is class specific. It would also be needed to be added to some other classes/skills or item sets in addition a nerf. 30% is kinda insane.

Imagine if meteor had this, it would be obviously overpowered that's how over stacked collosus ulti is.

Atherakhia

stevenyaub16_ESO wrote: »

Even at 15% would still end up as 3 necros per raid. The problem is the debuff is class specific. It would also be needed to be added to some other classes/skills or item sets in addition a nerf. 30% is kinda insane.

Imagine if meteor had this, it would be obviously overpowered that's how over stacked collosus ulti is.

And that in particular is my concern. It needs to be moved to another class, but if it's attached to the Mage's Guild you would see prog groups with nothing but MagBlades. This would be of less concern if all classes were relatively close in DPS, but that's just not in the cards.

Joxer61

Yes, and the Major Vuln debuff should be nerfed to 15% ( minor is 8%, major is most of the time 2x minor )

Sadly GW2 did, and still does, this. Warriors were called "Banner Bots" or the more colorful "Banner ***" and brought to a raid for one purpose, the buffs their banners gave to the group. As a dps class they sucked buttermilk, yet EVERY raid team needed and wanted one, same with the Mesmer Class, again because of a class unique buff, and they were the best tanks, as a light armor wearer....go figure.
The folks behind the game claimed they wanted to give each class its own unique buff so that people would want one of each class for raids and thus open up the playing field so to speak. It didnt work....9 times out of 10 if you played a Warrior and wanted to raid, you had to play the meta and be a Banner Bot, period.
If people think ESO is tough with meta and raid makeup man o man GW2 is 4 times as bad. You either play and bring what a certain Guild posted as "meta" for each raid or you didnt raid, period. One of the reasons I left that game and I really hope ESO NEVER gets to that stage.
I mean yea, to push the numbers a certain makeup is required but for the most part you can play what you want and not get ostracized for doing so......

Athan1

Other reasons

Necromancy is illegal and unethical. The dead should remain dead and souls should continue resting in Aetherius.

Playboy_Shrek

Yes, and the Major Vuln debuff should be nerfed to 15% ( minor is 8%, major is most of the time 2x minor )

p00tx wrote: »

Playboy_Shrek wrote: »

honestly. just remove the vulnerability all together and make the ult charge less and increase damage

Sooo...just turn them into a crappier version of a Nightblade?

at least they still have a lot of AOE utility and aoe damage. unlike nightblade.

Grandma

Yes, and the Major Vuln debuff should be nerfed to 15% ( minor is 8%, major is most of the time 2x minor )

I voted immediately without thinking much about it, but looking back in retrospect, it's pretty much all necromancers bring to the table anymore. Stamplars and Magsorcs and magblades do more damage and offer more to the group than any necro spec, outside of major vuln. It's the only thing that keeps them in raids really.

Aside from this, making enemies have a universal cooldown on major vuln basically made it so people weren't running just 8 magcros, because chaining it back to back was stronger than having other higher hitting dps who couldn't reach as high due to permamajorvuln. now that that is not the case and you only need 3-4 magcros to reach optimal uptimes, i think they're in an ok spot. nerfing major vuln wouldn't be the end of the world, but it would further bury their only utility.

on the plus side, next patch magcro is the only spec that can reliably have 100% uptime on all 3 EC stacks without using force pulse, and Master Architect lasting like 17 secs or whatever matches perfectly with their major vuln ult, so they have a lot going for htem as support dps.

Koubo

Other reasons

Yes it's way too powerfull, i just dont understand why something THAT mandatory for some HARD content is tie to 1 class only.
Beside business and maketing of course. It's not fun at all.

Dont get me wrong, i like my necros, but i wish we had more source of MajorDefile to make diversity a little bit more attractive. This is a game and it's meant to be fun. ZOS probably forgot that a trial with 4-6 Necro is kinda sad for diversity.

So ye, everything can be done more or less easier with every class. I wish you good luck for GodSlayer without Necros tho. Don't say it's no possible but from what i heard it's allready super hard with them.

As for the "nerf" of the buff. IDK. I dont have a opinion at the point

Altruz

Yes, but it's fine

Grandma wrote: »

I voted immediately without thinking much about it, but looking back in retrospect, it's pretty much all necromancers bring to the table anymore. Stamplars and Magsorcs and magblades do more damage and offer more to the group than any necro spec, outside of major vuln. It's the only thing that keeps them in raids really.

Aside from this, making enemies have a universal cooldown on major vuln basically made it so people weren't running just 8 magcros, because chaining it back to back was stronger than having other higher hitting dps who couldn't reach as high due to permamajorvuln. now that that is not the case and you only need 3-4 magcros to reach optimal uptimes, i think they're in an ok spot. nerfing major vuln wouldn't be the end of the world, but it would further bury their only utility.

on the plus side, next patch magcro is the only spec that can reliably have 100% uptime on all 3 EC stacks without using force pulse, and Master Architect lasting like 17 secs or whatever matches perfectly with their major vuln ult, so they have a lot going for htem as support dps.

Stamplars ? Lol. RoR is worthless next patch

Koubo

Other reasons

Altruz wrote: »

Grandma wrote: »

I voted immediately without thinking much about it, but looking back in retrospect, it's pretty much all necromancers bring to the table anymore. Stamplars and Magsorcs and magblades do more damage and offer more to the group than any necro spec, outside of major vuln. It's the only thing that keeps them in raids really.

Aside from this, making enemies have a universal cooldown on major vuln basically made it so people weren't running just 8 magcros, because chaining it back to back was stronger than having other higher hitting dps who couldn't reach as high due to permamajorvuln. now that that is not the case and you only need 3-4 magcros to reach optimal uptimes, i think they're in an ok spot. nerfing major vuln wouldn't be the end of the world, but it would further bury their only utility.

on the plus side, next patch magcro is the only spec that can reliably have 100% uptime on all 3 EC stacks without using force pulse, and Master Architect lasting like 17 secs or whatever matches perfectly with their major vuln ult, so they have a lot going for htem as support dps.

Stamplars ? Lol. RoR is worthless next patch

Ye people forgot that StamCro is just the best StamDD right now, not the easiest tho. Also bugged in real fight (often) but maybe less with next patch's fixes. Will see.
magCro arent the best for pur DPS, but StamCro are on the opposite and this is why there is a major problem

madarame_77

Yes, but it's fine

Remove it or make it useless for the group and you may as well delete this class because in every other way it is subpar compared to other classes. Not to mention, that the skeleton magicka morph is still not fixed. So it doesn't give damage according to the description.

Kingslayer513

Yes, but it's fine

Yes, but it doesn't need to be nerfed, major vuln needs to be accessible on other classes (undaunted ultimate maybe?) so necros aren't permanently forced into being debuff slaves

IrishOphidia

Yes, but it's fine

They aren’t the only “necessary” class, though. Templars bring Minor Sorcery, Sorcs bring Minor Prophecy, DKs bring Engulfing, NBs bring Hemorrhaging for Stam groups.

Joxer61

Yes, and the Major Vuln debuff should be nerfed to 15% ( minor is 8%, major is most of the time 2x minor )

Kingslayer513 wrote: »

Yes, but it doesn't need to be nerfed, major vuln needs to be accessible on other classes (undaunted ultimate maybe?) so necros aren't permanently forced into being debuff slaves

Much like Warriors in GW2 being Banner Bots.

JohnOfMarkarth

Other reasons

Yes but nerfing the major vuln isnt the thing that should be done. The skill should be reworked from that perspective.

Lack of minor buffs for the team isnt exactly "balanced" by overpowered overperforming ulti. If its required? It needs be changed. No dancing around it. You can feel its fine. But it isnt,

They should find a way to add some minor things to necro and NOT this