New even higher trader costs

rotten333

The new adjustments in the handover time is also the reason I want to find out more on what trading guilds are expecting now that this multi bidding system has been in place for some time.

Prices were up back at the beginning, but I am noting an increase in general, the last two months has seen a huge jump. I am now bidding around 4X the amounts on the main bid and getting shut out by equally desperate guilds to secure a spot.

example: I was winning bids at around 4-700k in remote locations. My last bids were 1600000 and a second 1000000 both failed. 4 weeks failing while increasing the bids outside of towns and in Thief dens only.

I check the stock on the target and when I see one that is exceptionally low I target that location. When I place the bids and lose I can only think that there are larger guilds with additional satellite affiliates that pump the location with funding just to keep smaller guilds like ours out. I am probably wrong and at this point rumor is more powerful than fact. Something is Rotten in Denmark.

I am losing members weekly and am for the first time thinking that its just not worth my time to pump loyal members for cash in this harsh environment. I may need a clue or a hint from someone who has gone through this.

ForzaRammer

gold sink is great for eso economy

kathandira

rotten333 wrote: »

The new adjustments in the handover time is also the reason I want to find out more on what trading guilds are expecting now that this multi bidding system has been in place for some time.

Prices were up back at the beginning, but I am noting an increase in general, the last two months has seen a huge jump. I am now bidding around 4X the amounts on the main bid and getting shut out by equally desperate guilds to secure a spot.

example: I was winning bids at around 4-700k in remote locations. My last bids were 1600000 and a second 1000000 both failed. 4 weeks failing while increasing the bids outside of towns and in Thief dens only.

I check the stock on the target and when I see one that is exceptionally low I target that location. When I place the bids and lose I can only think that there are larger guilds with additional satellite affiliates that pump the location with funding just to keep smaller guilds like ours out. I am probably wrong and at this point rumor is more powerful than fact. Something is Rotten in Denmark.

I am losing members weekly and am for the first time thinking that its just not worth my time to pump loyal members for cash in this harsh environment. I may need a clue or a hint from someone who has gone through this.

ESO's economy design is complete and utter trash. But it is all we have. I don't take part in Trading Guilds, and I get by just fine hardly ever using a Trader to sell things.

rotten333

kathandira wrote:
ESO's economy design is complete and utter trash. But it is all we have. I don't take part in Trading Guilds, and I get by just fine hardly ever using a Trader to sell things.

Ha not helpful but at least I'm not alone.

The only thing, since they are reluctant to add demand on bandwidth by adding additional kiosks, is to limit the number of guilds. Dead guilds with zero activity would go on ice and after a period of time be deleted.
As the list of guilds is reduced, new guild applications could be accepted.

Guyle

The trend has always been prices increasing, even before the multi bidding system. Generally, bids would go up around certain in-game happenings like a new chapter release, when people could expect higher sales, but never really went back down to what they were prior. Compound that now with the multi-bidding system, where we also have to make bids that contend with the prospect of a lower tier trade guild wanting to snag a nice spot for a week or two, and you have the current situation, where bids are multiple times higher than they were a year ago. Lol I remember I snagged an outlaw trader for 80k in 2017, that same trader now probably goes for 900k to 1.1 million. It's not bigger more powerful guilds trying to keep out competition, its all the smaller trade guilds that place exploratory bids in a bunch of different spots to see what happens, or guilds that usually don't have a trader that want to have a spot for a week.

daemonios

kathandira wrote: »

rotten333 wrote: »

The new adjustments in the handover time is also the reason I want to find out more on what trading guilds are expecting now that this multi bidding system has been in place for some time.

Prices were up back at the beginning, but I am noting an increase in general, the last two months has seen a huge jump. I am now bidding around 4X the amounts on the main bid and getting shut out by equally desperate guilds to secure a spot.

example: I was winning bids at around 4-700k in remote locations. My last bids were 1600000 and a second 1000000 both failed. 4 weeks failing while increasing the bids outside of towns and in Thief dens only.

I check the stock on the target and when I see one that is exceptionally low I target that location. When I place the bids and lose I can only think that there are larger guilds with additional satellite affiliates that pump the location with funding just to keep smaller guilds like ours out. I am probably wrong and at this point rumor is more powerful than fact. Something is Rotten in Denmark.

I am losing members weekly and am for the first time thinking that its just not worth my time to pump loyal members for cash in this harsh environment. I may need a clue or a hint from someone who has gone through this.

ESO's economy design is complete and utter trash. But it is all we have. I don't take part in Trading Guilds, and I get by just fine hardly ever using a Trader to sell things.

Agreed. Badly designed skill lines and writ rewards mean any player can be a master crafter and self-sufficient, reducing the need to trade. Badly designed loot tables make most items worthless and a precious few very expensive (see most chest motifs compared to all motifs of the same style) making grinding for sellable loot more a function of luck than time spent. Worst trading system, from guild traders to the game UI, makes finding anything a chore. Frequent events with dailies farmable on many characters and double drops devalue otherwise rare items. ESO's in-game economy is a fraction of what you see in other games that don't even have the megaserver concept and serve a much lower population.

VaranisArano

rotten333 wrote: »

kathandira wrote:
ESO's economy design is complete and utter trash. But it is all we have. I don't take part in Trading Guilds, and I get by just fine hardly ever using a Trader to sell things.

Ha not helpful but at least I'm not alone.

The only thing, since they are reluctant to add demand on bandwidth by adding additional kiosks, is to limit the number of guilds. Dead guilds with zero activity would go on ice and after a period of time be deleted.
As the list of guilds is reduced, new guild applications could be accepted.

Dead guilds with zero activity aren't getting traders, though, right? What does this have to do with limiting the number of guilds competing for available kiosks?

TineaCruris

I am in three major trading guilds with vendors in Deshaan and Rawl'aka.

This is likely to change for me very soon because it's just too much for GM's of trade guilds to keep the ball rolling. This system is breaking some of the best, community minded players in the game who try to make these trade guilds work.

I don't have any good suggestions other than to go back to the single bidder system or at least drop the bids down to three. Trade guilds are getting pushed out and it's not because of anything they or their guild members are doing, it's happening because of a seriously flawed trading system ZOS has set up.

I'm very opposed to a global auction house, but things are getting so bad that my resistance to doing away with the multi vendor system is waning.

Something has to be done. The current track of things for trade guilds IS NOT sustainable.

Kiyakotari

rotten333 wrote: »

The only thing, since they are reluctant to add demand on bandwidth by adding additional kiosks, is to limit the number of guilds. Dead guilds with zero activity would go on ice and after a period of time be deleted.
As the list of guilds is reduced, new guild applications could be accepted.

I'm confused, how would deleting guilds help with this? And how would you define "activity" in this scenario?

SeaGtGruff

Kiyakotari wrote: »

rotten333 wrote: »

The only thing, since they are reluctant to add demand on bandwidth by adding additional kiosks, is to limit the number of guilds. Dead guilds with zero activity would go on ice and after a period of time be deleted.
As the list of guilds is reduced, new guild applications could be accepted.

I'm confused, how would deleting guilds help with this? And how would you define "activity" in this scenario?

Exactly. Are these dead guilds supposedly bidding on kiosks and disrupting things for the other bidders? How are they posing a problem? Is it because people who are looking for a guild see a listing for a dead guild and submit an application? If no one is around in the guild to accept their application, then how is that supposed to be interfering with applications to other guilds?

santhoranb16_ESO

As long as some guilds are easy on keep paying those giant prices, it means its needed to counter any hyper-inflation. As long as players are willing to paid that, its working as intended. My trading guilds are not charging any weekly fee, the trader spots are somewhat off the roads but it still does fine for me. And a very active trader can pay more to get a better spot...for myself it isnt that important but those that wish can pay for sure 10k a week for their trade guild to keep support for their trading business.

Ratzkifal

More houses need to be made available through gold to deflate the economy.

driosketch

You need to do a better sweep. There are DLC cluster kiosks that will go for what you are bidding. And at the same time, I've lost a million bid on a chapter outlaw refuge kiosk. I abandon such spots. Don't fall for the bait of a low stock trader. Everyone thinks like that, and multiple guilds will target it as a backup, or even a new primary. It doesn't take a cartel.

What you need to do is stake out a location and watch for turn over. Kiosks that change hands week to week, do not have serious attachment, and likely lower bids. Before multi bidding, I would have said to target kiosk held by a big trader in a bad spot. Now they can drop a large some even on a backup. Then again... If they win their primary spot, maybe no one else bid on that back up.

Ri_Khan

Selling crowns ($£€¥) for gold was the final nail in the coffin. After that I knew there was zero point in playing the economy, as if it wasn't already a terrible system before that.

I certainly don't want or need a second job.

Taleof2Cities

Ri_Khan wrote: »

I certainly don't want or need a second job.

Another misconception about trade guilds.

A good trade guild delegates authority from the top to perform the guild's tasks as a whole ... including an officer in-charge of securing the weekly bid.

rotten333

driosketch wrote: »

You need to do a better sweep. There are DLC cluster kiosks that will go for what you are bidding. And at the same time, I've lost a million bid on a chapter outlaw refuge kiosk. I abandon such spots. Don't fall for the bait of a low stock trader. Everyone thinks like that, and multiple guilds will target it as a backup, or even a new primary. It doesn't take a cartel.

What you need to do is stake out a location and watch for turn over. Kiosks that change hands week to week, do not have serious attachment, and likely lower bids. Before multi bidding, I would have said to target kiosk held by a big trader in a bad spot. Now they can drop a large some even on a backup. Then again... If they win their primary spot, maybe no one else bid on that back up.

This was super helpful and simple thanks

rotten333

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Kiyakotari wrote: »

rotten333 wrote: »

The only thing, since they are reluctant to add demand on bandwidth by adding additional kiosks, is to limit the number of guilds. Dead guilds with zero activity would go on ice and after a period of time be deleted.
As the list of guilds is reduced, new guild applications could be accepted.

I'm confused, how would deleting guilds help with this? And how would you define "activity" in this scenario?

Exactly. Are these dead guilds supposedly bidding on kiosks and disrupting things for the other bidders? How are they posing a problem? Is it because people who are looking for a guild see a listing for a dead guild and submit an application? If no one is around in the guild to accept their application, then how is that supposed to be interfering with applications to other guilds?

I was thinking of the conversations on an old thread where ZOC shrugged off any comments that suggested adding kiosks would fix the perceived problems. Was it the additional bandwith or something other than that? My thought of reducing the number of guilds had to do with the bulk of storage that 100 guilds packed with inactive people and all of the guild bank, storage and clutter that comes with keeping these. How they determine who is active is certainly within their ability.

Blacknight841

Sorry but the problem for increased bids stems from lack of zenimax stepping in and actually monitoring the game so that it functions as intended. If you want to get a trader in Mournhold for the week you can do one of two things:

1. Find someone who has money in real life, is willing to spend crowns in the game and wants to look like a bad*** for screwing guilds that work hard as a community to make a bid.

2. Find some bots and buy materials off them so that you can undercut the market and use the gold pay for your guild.

Either of these two things can help you win a trader in the new pay to win model. The more gold you have, the more bids you can make. (there is ample proof of this on console). Sure some people get banned for violating the TOS, but since there are no CD keys on console, and the game is included with game pass, plus the fact that a person can create 32 accounts on each xbox, means they can do this all they want. If zenimax bans one account a week, they can still use the same xbox to make new accounts for 60% of the year. Seems like a pretty big loophole in the intent of the game to me.

In the end it is no different than in real life... you can work as hard as you want, but when someone with more money comes along and is willing to bend the rules a little, they will always finish ahead of you.

Welcome to the new trading system!

volkeswagon

the problem is not enough traders and too many guilds wanting traders. The system needs a change. 15 million for a mournhold trader on PS4 is ridiculous. Perhaps two guilds per trader

ChimpyChumpy

No expert but I thought the multi bidding system was created so folks lose their footholds. Meaning it was intended for folks to lose their "spot" and move around more so why is everyone so desperate to keep the same spot? (Edit I know not what the op is necessarily talking about, but mentioned throughout the thread). Kinda strange that folks are talking about folding up shop completely because they can't keep the same trader every week.

I highly doubt ZOS created the trading system with the intention people stay at one kiosk or even town forever.

That said I like my trading guild and yes the kiosk so yes I spend close to 100-150k a week (if I haven't used a bunch of mats to gold out a whole set of jewelry or something) on raffles like a lot of the folks in the guild in an attempt to stay in the same town. I don't think it's wrong to ask or even expect members to pitch in.

volkeswagon

They made the system so you wouldn't be without a trader but it's still happening. It had nothing to do with wanting traders to move around which they are anyway. Capital trading guilds who have members paying and expecting a capital trader are paying more now to maintain a capital trader than under the old system. My small guild stopped getting traders because they can't afford them anymore and a trader which I once was able to get for 200k cost 500k.

ChimpyChumpy

Really? How big is a trading guild like this? I guess to me it wouldn't make much sense to even have a trader if you couldn't hit 10 million in sales but I guess they all have to start somewhere.

volkeswagon

Since the multi bid system pretty much every guild thinks its a trading guild.

BigBragg

People are ramping up to get spots, build stocks of mats and sets, because with the next update there is a substantial meta shift in sets coming. That means big money is on the line for a lot of the traders out there. It will subside some after the player base settles into the next patch.

rotten333

volkeswagon wrote: »

the problem is not enough traders and too many guilds wanting traders. The system needs a change. 15 million for a mournhold trader on PS4 is ridiculous. Perhaps two guilds per trader

That was sort of my point in putting a ceiling on the number of guilds. First, since players can belong to 5 guilds a "cartel" can begin to build upwards of 2500 people with the focus only on 1-2 guilds. If some of these have multiple accounts the numbers go up. I don't claim knowledge on how to accomplish this in a very practical way mostly because I wouldn't waste my time

If i was raising an army of bots to corner the market in valued commodities and scanning TTC for chance buys like a vulture day trader I should be in very dire need of throttling before I go too far. Thanks for the wisdom. I have now two extra days to hawk for a location.

Wolf_Eye

I thought they DID add more kiosks? I don't remember there being many Shimmerene kiosks, and yet one day there were suddenly a whole bunch right next to the wayshrine.

...Or have those always been there?

rotten333

I think the shimmerene kiosks were always there, just obscure around a couple of corners.
I see another empty one in Stros . Pretty big town for just that single one. Same in several locations.

Blacknight841

Actually they are adding less traders now with each chapter than they were before.

Morrowind:
- 7 Vivec
- 3 Sadrith Mora
- 3 Balmora
- 1 Outlaw refuge

Summrset:
- 7 Alinor
- 3 Shimmerene
- 3 Lillandril
- 1 Outlaw Refuge

Southern Elsweyr:
- 7 Rimmen
- 1 Outlaw Refuge

Western Skyrim:
- 7 Solitude
- 1 Outlaw Refuge

rotten333

So they owe us 6!

Next thing you know we will be asking for a merge with the conglomerates just to stay alive, and they charge rent!

rotten333

We may need a pole dancer addon. Reading some of your comments must have helped. We won after a month of twiddling our thumbs!