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Vampire costs not calculating correctly with reductions!

MacCait
MacCait
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Hi. Testing a build on PTS and noticed that The reduce spell cost enchantment does not appear to be appllying the corect spell cost reduction on Jewellery to Vampire Skills. Further to this, the 'Infused' trait, also does not appear to be reducing the cost correctly.

It looks like the jewellery reductions are apllying to the base stat of the Vampire skill, ignoring the stage reduction of Vampire costs.

Can anyone else confirm this?

Is this a known bug?

Thanks

Added info: Blood Mist cost = 1192 @ Stage 1 Vamp and no cost reductions

1192 minus 203 gold enchantment reduction = 989 (but it's coming out at 1013)

1192 minus 324 gold infused reduce spell cost enchantment = 868 (but it is coming out at 906)

1192 minus 2 X 324 gold spell reduction = 544 (but its coming out at 620)

1192 minus 3 x 324 @ 972 cost reduction = 220 (but its coming out at 344)


Exhilirating Drain cost = 3817 @ Stage 1 Vamp and no cost reductions

3817 minus 203 gold enchantment reduction = 3614 (but its coming out at 3637)

3817 minus 324 gold infused reduce spell cost enchantment = 3493 (but it coming out at 3530)

3817 minus 2 X 324 gold spell reduction = 3169 (but it coming out at 3244)

3817 minus 3 x 324 @ 972 cost reduction = 2845 (but its coming out at 2958)
Edited by MacCait on August 6, 2020 2:20AM
  • Vevvev
    Vevvev
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    I believe its because the vampire cost increase/decrease is applied before or after everything else. This causes some odd results that are not exactly what people are expecting. Could be wrong.
    PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK
  • MacCait
    MacCait
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    Further testing:

    Blood Mist cost = 1192 @ Stage 1 Vamp and no cost reductions

    1192 - With 3 pieces Infused spell cost reduction jewellery (@ 972 reduction) + Seducer 10% reduction = 198 (but it comes out at 302

    Exhilirating Drain cost = 3817 @ Stage 1 Vamp and no cost reductions

    3817 - With 3 pieces Infused spell cost reduction jewellery (@ 972 reduction) + Seducer 10% reduction = 2561 (but it comes out at 2675)


    Blood Mist cost = 1192 @ Stage 1 (6% reduction to Vamp spells) and no cost reductions
    Blood Mist cost = 964 @ Stage 4 Vamp (24% reduction to Vamp spells) and no cost reductions
    (These numbers already don't seem correct)

    964 - With 3 pieces Infused spell cost reduction jewellery (@ 972 reduction) + Seducer 10% reduction = minus 7 (but it comes out at 244 ???

    Exhilirating Drain cost = 3817 @ Stage 1 (6% reduction to Vamp spells) and no cost reductions
    Exhilirating Drain cost = 3086 @ Stage 4 Vamp (24% reduction to Vamp spells) and no cost reductions
    (These numbers already don't seem correct)

    3086 - With 3 pieces Infused spell cost reduction jewellery (@ 972 reduction) + Seducer 10% reduction = 1903 (but it comes out at 2162) ???

    What is wrong here? None of this is adding up
    Edited by MacCait on August 6, 2020 1:33AM
  • MacCait
    MacCait
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    Vevvev wrote: »
    I believe its because the vampire cost increase/decrease is applied before or after everything else. This causes some odd results that are not exactly what people are expecting. Could be wrong.

    Blood Mist cost = 964 @ Stage 4 Vamp (24% reduction to Vamp spells) and no cost reductions

    964 + 24% = 1195.36 (1196 for arguments sake)
    1196 minus 6% at Stage 1 Vamp = 1124, however, Blood Mist cost = 1192 @ Stage 1 (inc. 6% reduction to Vamp spells)

    Blood Mist should cost 854 at Stage 4 Vamp (24% reduction to Vamp), but it costs 964??



    Exhilirating Drain cost = 3086 @ Stage 4 Vamp (24% reduction to Vamp spells) and no cost reductions

    3086 + 24% = 3826.64 (3827)
    3827 minus 6% at Stage 1 Vamp = 3597, however, Exhilirating Drain cost = 3817 @ Stage 1 (inc. 6% reduction to Vamp spells)

    Exhilirating Drain should cost 2734 at Stage 4 Vamp (24% reduction to Vamp), but it costs 3086??
  • MacCait
    MacCait
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    Further Info

    Running a test on Mist Form IV, Elusive Mist morph, and Blood Mist Morph. All at Stage 4 Vamp, with 972 jewellery reduction (3 x Infused gold reduction pieces) + 10% reduction via Seducer.

    Mist Form IV costs 244 per 1 second (it should almost be a free cast with these reductions)

    Blood Mist morph also costs 244 per 1 second (it should almost be a free cast with these reductions)

    however...

    Elusive Mist morph costs 69 per 1 second!

    There is NO tooltip info that suggests Elusive Mist should cost less.

    So it seems at least for this skill, this is operating around what it should be... where as Mist Form IV and Blood Mist are costing a lot more than they should!
    Edited by MacCait on August 6, 2020 2:21AM
  • Vevvev
    Vevvev
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    Wait now I'm understanding it. Yes, some abilities actually do have special effects where they cost less. Elusive mist, Perfect Scion, and Hypnosis all have cost reductions per rank on them. Wish it told you this but it does not.
    Edited by Vevvev on August 6, 2020 3:49AM
    PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK
  • MacCait
    MacCait
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    Vevvev wrote: »
    Wait now I'm understanding it. Yes, some abilities actually do have special effects where they cost less. Elusive mist, Perfect Scion, and Hypnosis all have cost reductions per rank on them. Wish it told you this but it does not.

    2 things with this...

    1) the numbers still don't add up, its incredibly incorrect. The calculation is closer to the cost of Elusive mist when taking cost reductions into effect. So much so that it doesn't make much sense to have 3 infused cost reduction jewellery.

    2) If there is no tool tip to show cost reduction on those 3 skills, and if the cost reductions of the cheaper skils are closer to what they should be with cost reductions considered, then it would suggest the skills that are more expensive are actually bugged

    It should not be diffeicult to show the correct maths (even if just a little off). But these maths are way off, and reductions are way overstated compared to what you actually get
  • Sugaroverdose
    Sugaroverdose
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    MacCait wrote: »
    Vevvev wrote: »
    I believe its because the vampire cost increase/decrease is applied before or after everything else. This causes some odd results that are not exactly what people are expecting. Could be wrong.

    Blood Mist cost = 964 @ Stage 4 Vamp (24% reduction to Vamp spells) and no cost reductions

    964 + 24% = 1195.36 (1196 for arguments sake)
    1196 minus 6% at Stage 1 Vamp = 1124, however, Blood Mist cost = 1192 @ Stage 1 (inc. 6% reduction to Vamp spells)

    Blood Mist should cost 854 at Stage 4 Vamp (24% reduction to Vamp), but it costs 964??



    Exhilirating Drain cost = 3086 @ Stage 4 Vamp (24% reduction to Vamp spells) and no cost reductions

    3086 + 24% = 3826.64 (3827)
    3827 minus 6% at Stage 1 Vamp = 3597, however, Exhilirating Drain cost = 3817 @ Stage 1 (inc. 6% reduction to Vamp spells)

    Exhilirating Drain should cost 2734 at Stage 4 Vamp (24% reduction to Vamp), but it costs 3086??
    [snip]

    Base cost: 1192 / 0.94 = 1268.0851063830
    Cost stage 4: 1268.0851063830 * 0.76 = 963.7446808511

    [edited for bashing]
    Edited by ZOS_Lunar on August 6, 2020 1:39PM
  • MashmalloMan
    MashmalloMan
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    MacCait wrote: »
    Hi. Testing a build on PTS and noticed that The reduce spell cost enchantment does not appear to be appllying the corect spell cost reduction on Jewellery to Vampire Skills. Further to this, the 'Infused' trait, also does not appear to be reducing the cost correctly.

    It looks like the jewellery reductions are apllying to the base stat of the Vampire skill, ignoring the stage reduction of Vampire costs.

    Can anyone else confirm this?

    Is this a known bug?

    Thanks

    Added info: Blood Mist cost = 1192 @ Stage 1 Vamp and no cost reductions

    1192 minus 203 gold enchantment reduction = 989 (but it's coming out at 1013)

    1192 minus 324 gold infused reduce spell cost enchantment = 868 (but it is coming out at 906)
    1. Stage 1 vampire has -6% cost reduction built in so your math is all wrong.
    2. Cost reduction glyphs are applied before cost reduction multipliers, so the rest of your math is wrong too.
    3. Cost reduction multipliers are not additive, they're multiplicative so they also get deminished the more you stack.

    This is exactly why it can be a bad idea to use cost reduction glyphs in full light/medium armor as Sorc/Templar, etc. Cost reduction glyphs are best utilized in heavy armor builds getting the least amount of diminishing returns on either source.

    For your example, you'd have to take out stage 1 vampire cost reduction first to figure out the actual cost of the skill:

    Blood Mist = 1192/0.94 = 1268.0851

    Based on your comment and the above decimal, we can assume the cost is based on 1268 rounded up with the -6% cost.

    1268 -203 = 1065
    1065 * 0.94 = 1001.1

    The 1192 from your comment is what I used for this math which might explain why it doesn't line up, I question whether or not you removed all your armor and cost reduction related passives that you'd get with sorc/templar because 1001 doesn't match the 1013 you witnessed in game.. However, it's much closer than the 989 you calculated.

    The best way to test this would be to start with a skill like Arterial Burst because it's base cost is guaranteed to be 2295 which is the known standard for melee instant spammables.

    A Sorc using Secuder with 7 Light and Stage 4 Vampire using Arterial Burst with 1x infused cost reduction glyph:

    0.94 * 0.9 * 0.86 * 0.76 = 0.5529

    (2295 - 324) * 0.5529 = 1089.76

    PC Beta - 2200+ CP

    Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
    Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit


    Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit
  • ExistingRug61
    ExistingRug61
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    [edit] ninja'd a bit by the above, but I'll leave this here as it goes through some of the specific examples of the OP
    MacCait wrote: »
    Hi. Testing a build on PTS and noticed that The reduce spell cost enchantment does not appear to be appllying the corect spell cost reduction on Jewellery to Vampire Skills. Further to this, the 'Infused' trait, also does not appear to be reducing the cost correctly.

    It looks like the jewellery reductions are applying to the base stat of the Vampire skill, ignoring the stage reduction of Vampire costs.

    Can anyone else confirm this?

    Is this a known bug?

    Thanks

    Added info: Blood Mist cost = 1192 @ Stage 1 Vamp and no cost reductions

    1192 minus 203 gold enchantment reduction = 989 (but it's coming out at 1013)

    1192 minus 324 gold infused reduce spell cost enchantment = 868 (but it is coming out at 906)

    1192 minus 2 X 324 gold spell reduction = 544 (but its coming out at 620)

    1192 minus 3 x 324 @ 972 cost reduction = 220 (but its coming out at 344)


    Exhilirating Drain cost = 3817 @ Stage 1 Vamp and no cost reductions

    3817 minus 203 gold enchantment reduction = 3614 (but its coming out at 3637)

    3817 minus 324 gold infused reduce spell cost enchantment = 3493 (but it coming out at 3530)

    3817 minus 2 X 324 gold spell reduction = 3169 (but it coming out at 3244)

    3817 minus 3 x 324 @ 972 cost reduction = 2845 (but its coming out at 2958)

    As far as I can tell the numbers you are getting make sense.

    Note: it looks like you have 6% cost reduction somewhere else in your build (Alteration Mastery perhaps?, or 3x light armour?), so I will assume this is present for all the examples. I say this because the starting costs you have listed for Mist Form and Exhilarating drain are 6% lower than there normal costs at stage 1 (confirmed by checking on UESP builder), which lists these as 1269 for Mist, 1016 for Elusive and 4061 for Drain and your values are 6% less than this. (If this isn't the case then I am a little perplexed as to why your values are what they are).

    Ok, on to how cost reduction is calculated.
    Flat cost reductions are subtracted from the base cost first, and then all percentage reductions are applied multiplicative, ie
    Cost = (Base Cost - Flat cost reduction)*(1-percentage reduction #1)*(1-percentage reduction#2)*...etc

    Now, note that the values I have pulled from UESP are the costs at stage 1, so already include the vampire cost reduction (this can easily be verified as if I change the vampire stage in the builder the cost changes). So first we have to find the real base costs.
    So, removing the 6% cost reduction present in these values to get the true base costs:
    Mist Form: 1269/(1-0.06) = 1350
    Elusive Mist: 1016/(1-0.06) = 1080
    Exhilarating Drain: 4061/(1-0.06) = 4320

    Next, calculating the expected cost with the given forms of cost reduction:

    Elusive mist at stage 1 with one cost reduction glyph and another 6% reduction from somewhere (which you appear to have)
    Base cost: 1350
    Apply cost reduction glyph: 1350 -203 = 1147
    Apply vampire stage 1 cost reduction: 1147*(1-0.06) = 1078
    Apply the other 6% cost reduction you seem to have: 1078*(1-0.06) = 1013 (matches the value you are seeing in game)

    Or more simply using the formula above
    Cost = (1350 - 203)*(1-0.06)*(1-0.06) = 1013

    Repeating for the gold infused version
    Cost = (1350 - 324)*(1-0.06)*(1-0.06) = 906

    Likewise for drain with one cost reduction glyph
    Cost = (4320- 203)*(1-0.06)*(1-0.06) = 3637

    These all match the values you are observing in game. I think if I kept doing the other examples they would match too.

    Now what does this mean - due to the percentage cost reductions being applied after the flat cost reductions, this means the flat cost reductions actually have less effect if you have sources of percentage reduction.
    It also means it shouldn't be possible to ever get to zero or negative cost (unless somehow the flat cost reduction is more than the base cost of the ability, which isn't true for any ability currently in the game)

    Take the extreme case like you were trying with mist form and elusive mist, with 3 infused cost reduction (972) plus stage 4 plus seducer (plus the extra 6% reduction you have from somewhere).

    Mist Form:
    Base Cost 1350
    Flat Cost reduction reduces this to 1350 - 972 = 378
    Percentage cost reduction then reduces to: 378*(1-0.24)*(1-0.06)*(1-0.1) = 243
    (might be a rounding effect here vs the 244 you saw in game)
    For comparison, without glyphs: 1350*(1-0.24)*(1-0.06)*(1-0.1) = 868

    Or for Elusive mist
    Base Cost 1080
    Flat Cost reduction reduces this to 1080- 972 = 108
    Percentage cost reduction then reduces to : 108*(1-0.24)*(1-0.06)*(1-0.1) = 69
    For comparison, without glyphs: 1080*(1-0.24)*(1-0.06)*(1-0.1) = 694

    In both cases the glyphs only actually reduce the cost by 625 - ie: not as strong as if you didn't have the percentage cost reduction

    The counterpoint is also true - cost reduction glyphs are actually comparatively better if you have sources of percentage cost increase, such as NMA or the vampire cost penalty to non vamp skills.

    Hope this explains it all well enough.


    Edited by ExistingRug61 on August 6, 2020 6:24AM
  • MacCait
    MacCait
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    Thanks guys, those explanations were very helpful!

    It's been about a year since I was in ESO, or the PTS for that matter, so you are quite right that I made the mistake of working this out without taking into consideration other skill line passives that are automatically put in on the PTS. I also had armour on. So this would probably account for the extra 6%.

    @MashmalloMan , "Stage 1 vampire has -6% cost reduction built in so your math is all wrong."

    I did attempt to take into consideration the 6% built into Stage 1 by adding it back, as explained in the other posts... However, I am unfamiluar with cost reduction enchantments and how they work, so your explanation makes more sense. Thanks. Though, as I am not a mathematician, just a simple artist, the way the maths are presented was over my head as a layman.

    @ExistingRug61 Your explanation was particularly helpful. Thank you :)

    The base build is a Dark Elf Templar, wearing 5 pieces of heavy armour, 1 light and 1 medium, with undaunted 10. Totally forgot to look at passives outside of the class. Doh! :disappointed::)

    I will re-look at this and see if I can make sense of ot again ;)

  • ExistingRug61
    ExistingRug61
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    MacCait wrote: »
    @ExistingRug61 Your explanation was particularly helpful. Thank you :)

    The base build is a Dark Elf Templar, wearing 5 pieces of heavy armour, 1 light and 1 medium, with undaunted 10. Totally forgot to look at passives outside of the class. Doh! :disappointed::)

    I will re-look at this and see if I can make sense of ot again ;)
    No worries, glad I could help.
    And yeah the templar cost reduction passive in combination with a bit from 1x light armour would pretty much explain the extra unknown cost reduction I was thought you had when I was running the numbers.
  • MacCait
    MacCait
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    MacCait wrote: »
    @ExistingRug61 Your explanation was particularly helpful. Thank you :)

    The base build is a Dark Elf Templar, wearing 5 pieces of heavy armour, 1 light and 1 medium, with undaunted 10. Totally forgot to look at passives outside of the class. Doh! :disappointed::)

    I will re-look at this and see if I can make sense of ot again ;)
    No worries, glad I could help.
    And yeah the templar cost reduction passive in combination with a bit from 1x light armour would pretty much explain the extra unknown cost reduction I was thought you had when I was running the numbers.

    Running it from scratch now, no armour, no passives at all

    I can see all the base costs you stated are all correct.

    Its interesting that Elusive Mist morph is 1015 at base whereas the standard Mist IV, and the Blood Mist morph are both 1269 at base cost.

    When you go to apply either morph, it shows as 1269... but only when you apply the Elusive Mist morph, it becomes 1015.

    Seems strange considering Elusive Mist is giving more than the base skill with Major Expedition, and yet is cheaper than the base skill or the other morph.

    Do we know why this is?
  • Sugaroverdose
    Sugaroverdose
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    MacCait wrote: »
    MacCait wrote: »
    Vevvev wrote: »
    I believe its because the vampire cost increase/decrease is applied before or after everything else. This causes some odd results that are not exactly what people are expecting. Could be wrong.

    Blood Mist cost = 964 @ Stage 4 Vamp (24% reduction to Vamp spells) and no cost reductions

    964 + 24% = 1195.36 (1196 for arguments sake)
    1196 minus 6% at Stage 1 Vamp = 1124, however, Blood Mist cost = 1192 @ Stage 1 (inc. 6% reduction to Vamp spells)

    Blood Mist should cost 854 at Stage 4 Vamp (24% reduction to Vamp), but it costs 964??



    Exhilirating Drain cost = 3086 @ Stage 4 Vamp (24% reduction to Vamp spells) and no cost reductions

    3086 + 24% = 3826.64 (3827)
    3827 minus 6% at Stage 1 Vamp = 3597, however, Exhilirating Drain cost = 3817 @ Stage 1 (inc. 6% reduction to Vamp spells)

    Exhilirating Drain should cost 2734 at Stage 4 Vamp (24% reduction to Vamp), but it costs 3086??
    idk where did you learn math, but you do it completely wrong

    Base cost: 1192 / 0.94 = 1268.0851063830
    Cost stage 4: 1268.0851063830 * 0.76 = 963.7446808511

    Thank you for your insult and criticism. I do not claim to be a mathematician or a master of the ego. I am not here to argue about how to present maths. I do not care about maths. I am just testing abuild and am stating it does not add up. It's presented in simple terms as I see it as an average person with a calculator.

    Aside from the insults, your remark does NOT explain anything.

    If you think it all adds up fine, and you do not see any problems, then please explain... without insults :)
    It's not "mathematician" thing, is about 2nd-3rd grade of junior school(depends on country).

    Everything what i said, is that your calculations wrong just because you don't know how to actually operate with percent values and did give you a sneak peek how math is actually done if you do want to get proper values, but it seems like that you don't get it.

    You have value of 1192 magicka for blood mist ability and you know that this value is reduced by 6% "out of the box", what you must do is to restore base value, how to do that?
    No, you must not add 6% of 1192 to itself.
    You should assume that 1192 is a 94% of original value and knowing that you can easily get 100% of original value by 1192 / 94 * 100 formula which is 1268.0851063830.

    But, this value isn't actually real because you 'lost' some another cost reduction.
    So i've logged in with my char, removed all gear, as well as "restoring spirit" and CP (just to make experiment cleaner)

    Resulting cost for Mist Form IV is 1269, as we know it's 94% so base cost is 1269 / 0.94 = 1350
    Based on this value your cost reduction at first stage is 100 - (1192 / (1350 / 100) ) = 11.7037037037%

    Back to your original post:
    1192 minus 203 gold enchantment reduction = 989 (but it's coming out at 1013)
    (1350 - 203) * 0.8829629630 = 1012.758518561 (1013 rounded)

    1192 minus 324 gold infused reduce spell cost enchantment = 868 (but it is coming out at 906)
    (1350 - 324) * 0.8829629630 = 905.920000038 (906 rounded)

    1192 minus 2 X 324 gold spell reduction = 544 (but its coming out at 620)
    (1350 - 324*2) * 0.8829629630 = 619.840000026 (620 rounded)

    1192 minus 3 x 324 @ 972 cost reduction = 220 (but its coming out at 344)
    (1350 - 324*3) * 0.8829629630 = 333.760000014 (well most definitely it's your mistake and you've got 334)

    Magic of numbers, huh

    PS: Repeating "insult" multiple times does not make you right as well as victim -_-
    PSS: refresh page before posting
    Edited by Sugaroverdose on August 6, 2020 8:01AM
  • MacCait
    MacCait
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    Probably still making a mistake lol but here it is:

    Dark Elf, Templar, No passives, No CP, No armour, nothing affecting cost reductions.

    Blood Mist, base cost: 1269 included the 6% auto applied reduction for Stage 1 Vamp

    1269 + 6% = 1345.14

    1345 - 324 infused gold cost reduction ring = 1021 (in game it appears as 964)

    1345 - 2 X 324 = 697 (in game it appears as 659)

    1345 - 3 X 324 = 373 (in game it appears as 355)

    355 - 5% for Restoring Spirit passive = 337 (in game it correctly appears as 377)

    337 - 2% for 1 piece of Light from Evocation II passive = 330 (in game it appears as 334)

    So it all looks ok so far...

    Just a puzzle why certain costs of morphs are lower than others, as @Vevvev said earlier... Elusive Mist, Hypnosis and Perfect Scion, and not their counter-part morphs
  • Sugaroverdose
    Sugaroverdose
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    MacCait wrote: »
    Probably still making a mistake lol but here it is:

    Dark Elf, Templar, No passives, No CP, No armour, nothing affecting cost reductions.

    Blood Mist, base cost: 1269 included the 6% auto applied reduction for Stage 1 Vamp

    1269 + 6% = 1345.14

    1345 - 324 infused gold cost reduction ring = 1021 (in game it appears as 964)

    1345 - 2 X 324 = 697 (in game it appears as 659)

    1345 - 3 X 324 = 373 (in game it appears as 355)

    355 - 5% for Restoring Spirit passive = 337 (in game it correctly appears as 377)

    337 - 2% for 1 piece of Light from Evocation II passive = 330 (in game it appears as 334)

    So it all looks ok so far...

    Just a puzzle why certain costs of morphs are lower than others, as @Vevvev said earlier... Elusive Mist, Hypnosis and Perfect Scion, and not their counter-part morphs
    Derp.

    1269 is 94%, so 100% is 1269/94*100 = 1350
  • ExistingRug61
    ExistingRug61
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    There are several morphs that have reduce cost as they rank up from I to IV.

    As the general rule all skills slightly improve as they rank up from I to V. In the case of morphs the increase generally applies as a small increase to the extra effect that the morph added. However in some cases the extra effect from the morph is not suitable for a small incremental improvement as it is a fixed effect. In these cases the default bonus from increasing from rank I to IV is cost reduction on the base cost of the skill.

    When looking at mist as an example:
    Blood mist adds damage and healing from that. I assume that as the skill goes from I to IV the damage slightly increases. This works as the damage is able to be slightly increased.
    However, for elusive mist, the extra effect is Major Expedition. It isn’t possible to slightly improve Major Expedition as that is a fixed buff, so the skill instead gets its cost reduced as it goes from I to IV, and hence ends up cheaper than the base skill and Blood Mist.

    Likewise Hyponisis and Perfect Scion - the extra affect from these is a flat effect (affecting all enemies and getting stage 5 respectively) which cannot be incrementally improved. As such they get cost reduction instead as their improvement from I to IV.

    There are several other skill morphs that operate this way, ie:
    - Shadowy disguise adds a guaranteed crit to cloak. This extra effect cannot be improved as the skill goes from I to IV so instead Shadowy Disguise gets cost reduction.
    - Degeneration adds major sorcery. This is a fixed buff so cannot be improved, so instead the skill gets cost reduction as it goes from I to IV.
    - Mirage adds minor armour buffs. Again a fixed effect so it gets cost reduction as well.
    - And many others (I am just familiar with these due to being a magblade main)
  • MacCait
    MacCait
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    I have had Discalulia since birth, I do the best I can.

    For those that answered with insightful and helpful answers, BIG THANKS. very much appreciated. You explained everything well.

    Moderators... this site is not letting me 'report' posts for bashing, baiting, trolling as per your forum rules.

    @ExistingRug61 particularly helpful. Thanks man!
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