OlumoGarbag wrote: »Im confused what this is about. Pve, pvp? Trial tanks dealing damage?
Can you pls explain what the purpose of you post is? Is it a nerf thread or a buff thread?
Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »OlumoGarbag wrote: »Im confused what this is about. Pve, pvp? Trial tanks dealing damage?
Can you pls explain what the purpose of you post is? Is it a nerf thread or a buff thread?
The tl:Dr: the disease damage buff to morag set makes stamblades and stamcros more desirable than SDK and warden. Tanks can wear it and it's too easy
Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »OlumoGarbag wrote: »Im confused what this is about. Pve, pvp? Trial tanks dealing damage?
Can you pls explain what the purpose of you post is? Is it a nerf thread or a buff thread?
The tl:Dr: the disease damage buff to morag set makes stamblades and stamcros more desirable than SDK and warden. Tanks can wear it and it's too easy
I like how Stam Sorc&Templar just disapear from the list xD
Skjaldbjorn wrote: »If this change is going to make it to live, and by that I mean the Disease damage ramp, put it on a poor Stam variant, like Warden or DK. Don't slap it on an item tanks can run. Give it the Engulfing treatment. Throw it on Shalks or Noxious Breath and have it scale with highest offensive stat. That pushes you to bring Stamina DPS that aren't exactly the greatest through group utility, and pushes the buff away from supports just stacking on another set for no real loss.
Kittytravel wrote: »I don't really tank myself, I have one and can do it but by no means do I pursue HM so I'm asking for a bit of clarification on part of your post.Skjaldbjorn wrote: »If this change is going to make it to live, and by that I mean the Disease damage ramp, put it on a poor Stam variant, like Warden or DK. Don't slap it on an item tanks can run. Give it the Engulfing treatment. Throw it on Shalks or Noxious Breath and have it scale with highest offensive stat. That pushes you to bring Stamina DPS that aren't exactly the greatest through group utility, and pushes the buff away from supports just stacking on another set for no real loss.
Why exactly would Morag Tong be better to run on a tank than any other current set available to tanks that are group-focused? Wouldn't this only make Morag Tong effective in a group running primarily Stamblade/Stamcro?
I just don't see how this change is an issue for PvE side content... I really can't see how 10% on a few select abilities would be better than the current sets Tanks run for group support namely Ebon/Akaviri/Yolnahkriin/Torugs?
Perhaps I'm wrong but I'd be interested to see someone run a vet trial with four "normal" tank sets and then swap one out for Morag Tong with the buffs and do it all over again and see how big the difference really is. But in my head I can't fathom this being that large of a difference unless the group was already primarily Stamblade/Stamcro DDs which would be strange in itself considering the amount of buffs you'd be losing out on.
Kittytravel wrote: »I don't really tank myself, I have one and can do it but by no means do I pursue HM so I'm asking for a bit of clarification on part of your post.Skjaldbjorn wrote: »If this change is going to make it to live, and by that I mean the Disease damage ramp, put it on a poor Stam variant, like Warden or DK. Don't slap it on an item tanks can run. Give it the Engulfing treatment. Throw it on Shalks or Noxious Breath and have it scale with highest offensive stat. That pushes you to bring Stamina DPS that aren't exactly the greatest through group utility, and pushes the buff away from supports just stacking on another set for no real loss.
Why exactly would Morag Tong be better to run on a tank than any other current set available to tanks that are group-focused? Wouldn't this only make Morag Tong effective in a group running primarily Stamblade/Stamcro?
I just don't see how this change is an issue for PvE side content... I really can't see how 10% on a few select abilities would be better than the current sets Tanks run for group support namely Ebon/Akaviri/Yolnahkriin/Torugs?
Perhaps I'm wrong but I'd be interested to see someone run a vet trial with four "normal" tank sets and then swap one out for Morag Tong with the buffs and do it all over again and see how big the difference really is. But in my head I can't fathom this being that large of a difference unless the group was already primarily Stamblade/Stamcro DDs which would be strange in itself considering the amount of buffs you'd be losing out on.
Generally, some patches result in the meta shifting, which in this case, would result in the stamblade/stamcro group composition that's being referenced. As for buffs being lost out on, there's still what the classes of the tanks and healers that will bring to the table which would probably more than suffice. It's like the patch(es?) when stamcros dominated because of Major Vulnerability.
I similarly agree on not nerfing a set just because it will shift the meta in a certain way despite the ability being a technically healthy addition to support capabilities. I understand that's the direction that likely to be taken as far as how group composition might go but ultimately, it seems like necros will largely always have a place in groups one way or another. Whoever else manages to get in will always just rotate out from time to time. /shrug
Kittytravel wrote: »Kittytravel wrote: »I don't really tank myself, I have one and can do it but by no means do I pursue HM so I'm asking for a bit of clarification on part of your post.Skjaldbjorn wrote: »If this change is going to make it to live, and by that I mean the Disease damage ramp, put it on a poor Stam variant, like Warden or DK. Don't slap it on an item tanks can run. Give it the Engulfing treatment. Throw it on Shalks or Noxious Breath and have it scale with highest offensive stat. That pushes you to bring Stamina DPS that aren't exactly the greatest through group utility, and pushes the buff away from supports just stacking on another set for no real loss.
Why exactly would Morag Tong be better to run on a tank than any other current set available to tanks that are group-focused? Wouldn't this only make Morag Tong effective in a group running primarily Stamblade/Stamcro?
I just don't see how this change is an issue for PvE side content... I really can't see how 10% on a few select abilities would be better than the current sets Tanks run for group support namely Ebon/Akaviri/Yolnahkriin/Torugs?
Perhaps I'm wrong but I'd be interested to see someone run a vet trial with four "normal" tank sets and then swap one out for Morag Tong with the buffs and do it all over again and see how big the difference really is. But in my head I can't fathom this being that large of a difference unless the group was already primarily Stamblade/Stamcro DDs which would be strange in itself considering the amount of buffs you'd be losing out on.
Generally, some patches result in the meta shifting, which in this case, would result in the stamblade/stamcro group composition that's being referenced. As for buffs being lost out on, there's still what the classes of the tanks and healers that will bring to the table which would probably more than suffice. It's like the patch(es?) when stamcros dominated because of Major Vulnerability.
I similarly agree on not nerfing a set just because it will shift the meta in a certain way despite the ability being a technically healthy addition to support capabilities. I understand that's the direction that likely to be taken as far as how group composition might go but ultimately, it seems like necros will largely always have a place in groups one way or another. Whoever else manages to get in will always just rotate out from time to time. /shrug
I was assuming that was the reasoning but also I didn't want it to be the reasoning for the logical issue that is why approve any of the changes if it will shift the meta? Why stop at Morag Tong? Might as well not change the game ever again because any change has the slightest chance of shifting the Meta.
Skjaldbjorn wrote: »Kittytravel wrote: »Kittytravel wrote: »I don't really tank myself, I have one and can do it but by no means do I pursue HM so I'm asking for a bit of clarification on part of your post.Skjaldbjorn wrote: »If this change is going to make it to live, and by that I mean the Disease damage ramp, put it on a poor Stam variant, like Warden or DK. Don't slap it on an item tanks can run. Give it the Engulfing treatment. Throw it on Shalks or Noxious Breath and have it scale with highest offensive stat. That pushes you to bring Stamina DPS that aren't exactly the greatest through group utility, and pushes the buff away from supports just stacking on another set for no real loss.
Why exactly would Morag Tong be better to run on a tank than any other current set available to tanks that are group-focused? Wouldn't this only make Morag Tong effective in a group running primarily Stamblade/Stamcro?
I just don't see how this change is an issue for PvE side content... I really can't see how 10% on a few select abilities would be better than the current sets Tanks run for group support namely Ebon/Akaviri/Yolnahkriin/Torugs?
Perhaps I'm wrong but I'd be interested to see someone run a vet trial with four "normal" tank sets and then swap one out for Morag Tong with the buffs and do it all over again and see how big the difference really is. But in my head I can't fathom this being that large of a difference unless the group was already primarily Stamblade/Stamcro DDs which would be strange in itself considering the amount of buffs you'd be losing out on.
Generally, some patches result in the meta shifting, which in this case, would result in the stamblade/stamcro group composition that's being referenced. As for buffs being lost out on, there's still what the classes of the tanks and healers that will bring to the table which would probably more than suffice. It's like the patch(es?) when stamcros dominated because of Major Vulnerability.
I similarly agree on not nerfing a set just because it will shift the meta in a certain way despite the ability being a technically healthy addition to support capabilities. I understand that's the direction that likely to be taken as far as how group composition might go but ultimately, it seems like necros will largely always have a place in groups one way or another. Whoever else manages to get in will always just rotate out from time to time. /shrug
I was assuming that was the reasoning but also I didn't want it to be the reasoning for the logical issue that is why approve any of the changes if it will shift the meta? Why stop at Morag Tong? Might as well not change the game ever again because any change has the slightest chance of shifting the Meta.
@Kittytravel The meta shifts regardless of the Tong change. That's my point. Stamblade is back. Stam Sorc looks very, very promising. Stamplar looks solid. Stamcro is unharmed. That leaves us with four competitive, fully viable Stamina options for Stonethorn. The morag change pushes us to two - Stamblade and Stamcro. It's literally a purposeless change. It brings no benefit to the health of the game short-term.
This change actually harms the meta more than helping it. Having a meta where more classes are brought up to viability should be the goal, not to constantly have two at the top and everyone else inferior. That's nonsense.
Kittytravel wrote: »Skjaldbjorn wrote: »Kittytravel wrote: »Kittytravel wrote: »I don't really tank myself, I have one and can do it but by no means do I pursue HM so I'm asking for a bit of clarification on part of your post.Skjaldbjorn wrote: »If this change is going to make it to live, and by that I mean the Disease damage ramp, put it on a poor Stam variant, like Warden or DK. Don't slap it on an item tanks can run. Give it the Engulfing treatment. Throw it on Shalks or Noxious Breath and have it scale with highest offensive stat. That pushes you to bring Stamina DPS that aren't exactly the greatest through group utility, and pushes the buff away from supports just stacking on another set for no real loss.
Why exactly would Morag Tong be better to run on a tank than any other current set available to tanks that are group-focused? Wouldn't this only make Morag Tong effective in a group running primarily Stamblade/Stamcro?
I just don't see how this change is an issue for PvE side content... I really can't see how 10% on a few select abilities would be better than the current sets Tanks run for group support namely Ebon/Akaviri/Yolnahkriin/Torugs?
Perhaps I'm wrong but I'd be interested to see someone run a vet trial with four "normal" tank sets and then swap one out for Morag Tong with the buffs and do it all over again and see how big the difference really is. But in my head I can't fathom this being that large of a difference unless the group was already primarily Stamblade/Stamcro DDs which would be strange in itself considering the amount of buffs you'd be losing out on.
Generally, some patches result in the meta shifting, which in this case, would result in the stamblade/stamcro group composition that's being referenced. As for buffs being lost out on, there's still what the classes of the tanks and healers that will bring to the table which would probably more than suffice. It's like the patch(es?) when stamcros dominated because of Major Vulnerability.
I similarly agree on not nerfing a set just because it will shift the meta in a certain way despite the ability being a technically healthy addition to support capabilities. I understand that's the direction that likely to be taken as far as how group composition might go but ultimately, it seems like necros will largely always have a place in groups one way or another. Whoever else manages to get in will always just rotate out from time to time. /shrug
I was assuming that was the reasoning but also I didn't want it to be the reasoning for the logical issue that is why approve any of the changes if it will shift the meta? Why stop at Morag Tong? Might as well not change the game ever again because any change has the slightest chance of shifting the Meta.
@Kittytravel The meta shifts regardless of the Tong change. That's my point. Stamblade is back. Stam Sorc looks very, very promising. Stamplar looks solid. Stamcro is unharmed. That leaves us with four competitive, fully viable Stamina options for Stonethorn. The morag change pushes us to two - Stamblade and Stamcro. It's literally a purposeless change. It brings no benefit to the health of the game short-term.
This change actually harms the meta more than helping it. Having a meta where more classes are brought up to viability should be the goal, not to constantly have two at the top and everyone else inferior. That's nonsense.
Why would the change to Morag make Stamsorc/Stamplar "Not Competitive"?... Or do you mean "Not top tier BiS for leaderboard runs"? In which case who cares there will always be that issue with Leaderboards and meta chasing... There isn't a way to avoid that; 500 DPS difference is all it takes for that type of player to change entire classes to shave off those 10 seconds.
Again a demonstration would be far more apt in proving your point of how much of a massive difference this would make but I don't think it's the do-or-die scenario you seem to paint it as.