Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »I don't think we need to give out incentives for builds that do nothing but troll tank. I know, it's very hard to do that in no cp but the whole idea of a deathmatch is a fast paced battle. Other modes benefit tank builds more.
It shows DEATHS. A low death number means you have done a good job not dying, aka, being tanky.
sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »PVE style tanks suck in Deathmatch PVP and are a detriment to the team because they do little to no damage Or healing and get ignored. Nobody is disputing that; But that’s not what this thread is about:
Everybody takes damage in PVP no matter what kind of build you are on. Having a damage taken stat would be nice so that you could see who was being focused or drawing fire away from their teammates
WiredandTired wrote: »Unsure if this is a good idea or not. I'm leaning towards no. In the context of just showing damage taken to be an indicator of a job well done, how does it differentiate from a guy who is inexperienced/squishy/feeder vs a legit tank? In fact it'd be easy to inflate the damage taken number if you're say a squishy magicka player getting deleted repeatedly and fast.
It would only be beneficial to some overall larger charges to battlegrounds, say queuing by role. It'd be a worthwhile stat to evaluate the tank player if he is indeed built tanky or fulfilling that role. On the other hand, any decent opposing team if you're adapting to win either deathmatch or objectives will try to ignore the tank anyways (with the exception of chaosball, where you're forced to dogpile on a potentially tanky player anyways). Anybody who repeatedly beats on the tank uncoordinated or as primary target is not playing tactically. In that case the tank needs to run interference and peel opposing dps off their healers or squishy, or spearheading the charge to stun and set focus targets. Those would be other stats that would be hard to track. Teamwork is an intangible thing and largely left up to the players. Numbers can help but they hardly help if they can't be interpreted correctly.
Despite the lopsided nature and frustrating nature of BGs, I have a lot of fun with them. Any improvements to address teamwork in BGs would be great. To breathe new life into BGs, I'd give it tiered campaign rewards like Cyrodil (solo and group queue options), a separate ranked group queue, and most importantly a thoroughly good MMR system to make sure players are not outmatched consistently.
I'd also argue that a competitive ranked queue if done correctly could be one of the prongs of addressing Cyrodil lag problems. A properly done competitve ranked BG mode would give Cyrodil players another option to pvp and thus alleviate some traffic from Cyrodil.
WiredandTired wrote: »Unsure if this is a good idea or not. I'm leaning towards no. In the context of just showing damage taken to be an indicator of a job well done, how does it differentiate from a guy who is inexperienced/squishy/feeder vs a legit tank? In fact it'd be easy to inflate the damage taken number if you're say a squishy magicka player getting deleted repeatedly and fast.
It would only be beneficial to some overall larger charges to battlegrounds, say queuing by role. It'd be a worthwhile stat to evaluate the tank player if he is indeed built tanky or fulfilling that role. On the other hand, any decent opposing team if you're adapting to win either deathmatch or objectives will try to ignore the tank anyways (with the exception of chaosball, where you're forced to dogpile on a potentially tanky player anyways). Anybody who repeatedly beats on the tank uncoordinated or as primary target is not playing tactically. In that case the tank needs to run interference and peel opposing dps off their healers or squishy, or spearheading the charge to stun and set focus targets. Those would be other stats that would be hard to track. Teamwork is an intangible thing and largely left up to the players. Numbers can help but they hardly help if they can't be interpreted correctly.
Despite the lopsided nature and frustrating nature of BGs, I have a lot of fun with them. Any improvements to address teamwork in BGs would be great. To breathe new life into BGs, I'd give it tiered campaign rewards like Cyrodil (solo and group queue options), a separate ranked group queue, and most importantly a thoroughly good MMR system to make sure players are not outmatched consistently.
I'd also argue that a competitive ranked queue if done correctly could be one of the prongs of addressing Cyrodil lag problems. A properly done competitve ranked BG mode would give Cyrodil players another option to pvp and thus alleviate some traffic from Cyrodil.
The first paragraph is just wrong. If someone is a/an "inexperienced/squishy/feeder" that gets themselves killed quickly, they aren't going to rack up a large damage taken stat because they will be spending a large portion of their time dead and waiting to spawn and running back to the fight, instead of surviving longer and continuously taking damage. On the other hand, if someone is a legit "tank" then they often aren't much of a threat, and smarter players will tend to ignore them and only kill them if the rest of that tank's team is dead.
People need to see the damage taken stat as damage being "shared" for the team, instead of something that troll tanks see as a measurement of their ability to be a unthreatening damage sponge that deals little damage.
WiredandTired wrote: »WiredandTired wrote: »Unsure if this is a good idea or not. I'm leaning towards no. In the context of just showing damage taken to be an indicator of a job well done, how does it differentiate from a guy who is inexperienced/squishy/feeder vs a legit tank? In fact it'd be easy to inflate the damage taken number if you're say a squishy magicka player getting deleted repeatedly and fast.
It would only be beneficial to some overall larger charges to battlegrounds, say queuing by role. It'd be a worthwhile stat to evaluate the tank player if he is indeed built tanky or fulfilling that role. On the other hand, any decent opposing team if you're adapting to win either deathmatch or objectives will try to ignore the tank anyways (with the exception of chaosball, where you're forced to dogpile on a potentially tanky player anyways). Anybody who repeatedly beats on the tank uncoordinated or as primary target is not playing tactically. In that case the tank needs to run interference and peel opposing dps off their healers or squishy, or spearheading the charge to stun and set focus targets. Those would be other stats that would be hard to track. Teamwork is an intangible thing and largely left up to the players. Numbers can help but they hardly help if they can't be interpreted correctly.
Despite the lopsided nature and frustrating nature of BGs, I have a lot of fun with them. Any improvements to address teamwork in BGs would be great. To breathe new life into BGs, I'd give it tiered campaign rewards like Cyrodil (solo and group queue options), a separate ranked group queue, and most importantly a thoroughly good MMR system to make sure players are not outmatched consistently.
I'd also argue that a competitive ranked queue if done correctly could be one of the prongs of addressing Cyrodil lag problems. A properly done competitve ranked BG mode would give Cyrodil players another option to pvp and thus alleviate some traffic from Cyrodil.
The first paragraph is just wrong. If someone is a/an "inexperienced/squishy/feeder" that gets themselves killed quickly, they aren't going to rack up a large damage taken stat because they will be spending a large portion of their time dead and waiting to spawn and running back to the fight, instead of surviving longer and continuously taking damage. On the other hand, if someone is a legit "tank" then they often aren't much of a threat, and smarter players will tend to ignore them and only kill them if the rest of that tank's team is dead.
People need to see the damage taken stat as damage being "shared" for the team, instead of something that troll tanks see as a measurement of their ability to be a unthreatening damage sponge that deals little damage.
True, I'll admit that I completely overlooked the respawn and running portions. Maybe my personal bias against some players who throw themselves repeatedly into the fray. On some level you have to concede to troll builds that they're well thought out and can be effective against folks who aren't thinking about how best to win the match. I'm still surprised folks go chasing after tanky builds based around vampire mist form.