Red Mountain has gone from reliable proc set to once in a while proc set

TheDarkRuler

I dont know why you increased the cooldown so much.. you quadrupled it!
I know the damage was buffed too but I really loved the fast-proc with almost zero cooldown in live version.
I was good to play with... this high cooldown thing really makes this set go into the trashbin once its live.
Feeling really sad for the gold materials i put in upgrading on live server.

StamPlar_1976

Yep. They killed it. I was looking forward to the fast procs too.

stefj68

quadruple cooldown and bouble damage... RIP

SidraWillowsky

Yeah, this is why I wait to gold stuff out. Recently got War Maiden, Red Mountain, and Mad Tinkerer and am holding off on doing anything with them bc of crap like this.

I liked my little perma-volcano

TheDarkRuler

I feel the maximum amount of cooldown on such sets should be about 4s most.
I am able to deal with less damage per proc but i want it to proc more reliable!
Might as well deal Selene 5k only but every 4-5s... would love it.

fred4

I don't think they killed it, they're just targeting a different customer now: Me. If this procs from light attacks, then it seems worth trying to gank people with on a magblade. This and Caluurion together...

regime211

TheDarkRuler wrote: »

I dont know why you increased the cooldown so much.. you quadrupled it!
I know the damage was buffed too but I really loved the fast-proc with almost zero cooldown in live version.
I was good to play with... this high cooldown thing really makes this set go into the trashbin once its live.
Feeling really sad for the gold materials i put in upgrading on live server.

lol what?! I tried the set out and it procs way too damn much. Are you sure you even tested it out?

Mayrael

Spoiled stamina players...

artal

Im playing stat builds, dot builds and proc builds. I like all play styles cause they can be fun. But thinking that red mountain proccing every 2 sec was ballanced and ok is wrong.
This is actually good change. Set is still viable and not op.
I know you wanted to hit people with PI or rending and watch them loose all stamina didging that volcano.
Thankfully they wont be on every corner now but you will see them more than now

Lughlongarm

Red Mountain is now in-line with other proc sets. Good change.

Maulkin

Way of Fire and Red Mountain are my goto sets on StamSorcs for BGs. Extremely strong on DW builds.

I'd say the nerf is probably deserved in this case, the damage ourput was insane. It was hitting people for spammable damage every 2 secs, increasing your pressure tremendously.

Nerftheforums

Good change, the set as in was in pts before was ridiculously strong

Burtan

Red mountain has not been nerfed nor is it currently balanced on PTS. It is now an extremely effective burst tool that deals more damage than ultimates in no cp.

Red mountain has a tooltip of 17590 on a warden with 2 animal companion skills, malacath and minor berserk, and that's just no CP.

That's higher than any burst damage ultimate and it can be easily timed with a CC and additional burst damage. To get a regular ultimate to reach this kind of tooltip you would need invest everything into damage, giving up a lot of if not all sustain and defence, yet this set offers you that dmg and more with no investment.

The dmg of this set needs to be reduced, changed to no longer work with malacath or at least should be changed to scale on offensive stats instead of giving you this kind of dmg for free.

validifyedneb18_ESO

More reliable smaller procs are much nicer feeling to build around. Worse for PVP sure but I use them anyway, they feel a lot better.

Juhasow

Funnily enough in the same patch notes they've opened a window for combining red mountain with caluurion. Put those two and enjoy instant nukes in PvP by simply using critical charge+execute spam. Both of those sets will hit basically at the same time because critical charge combines both proc conditions and both sets have slight delay between proc and hit. And You can also add vMA 2h to them as a cherry on the top. And if You're not satisfied with critical charge You can always try good old snipe from hide which also procs both caluurion and red mountain.

Maulkin

Juhasow wrote: »

Funnily enough in the same patch notes they've opened a window for combining red mountain with caluurion. Put those two and enjoy instant nukes in PvP by simply using critical charge+execute spam. Both of those sets will hit basically at the same time because critical charge combines both proc conditions and both sets have slight delay between proc and hit. And You can also add vMA 2h to them as a cherry on the top. And if You're not satisfied with critical charge You can always try good old snipe from hide which also procs both caluurion and red mountain.

The problem is that if the opponent does a dodge roll after being hit by crit charge, and dodges the 2 procs, then you’re just a sitting duck with a mag and a stam set while your opponent pummels you.

rumple9

Yes the cooldown needs to be shorter

Also the tool tip should read "weapon ability" rather than just "weapon", for the sake of clarity

catnamedwill

The change was needed. When this set did double the damage of Poisonouse Serpent in same 2 sec CD, why would anyone bother to use it.

Juhasow

Maulkin wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Funnily enough in the same patch notes they've opened a window for combining red mountain with caluurion. Put those two and enjoy instant nukes in PvP by simply using critical charge+execute spam. Both of those sets will hit basically at the same time because critical charge combines both proc conditions and both sets have slight delay between proc and hit. And You can also add vMA 2h to them as a cherry on the top. And if You're not satisfied with critical charge You can always try good old snipe from hide which also procs both caluurion and red mountain.

The problem is that if the opponent does a dodge roll after being hit by crit charge, and dodges the 2 procs, then you’re just a sitting duck with a mag and a stam set while your opponent pummels you.

Crit charge into any undodgable stun ( Turn Evil for example).

Actually when You think about it magblade could use it pretty effectively with destro staff by doing la+clench from cloak with ele weapon used preferably before la. Light attack will hit enemy and proc both sets and clench will stun him when projectiles will be flying at him.

As for sets themselves loosing 3 stat bonuses in PvP is not end of the world. You can still survive until next proc combo.

pieratsos

Maulkin wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Funnily enough in the same patch notes they've opened a window for combining red mountain with caluurion. Put those two and enjoy instant nukes in PvP by simply using critical charge+execute spam. Both of those sets will hit basically at the same time because critical charge combines both proc conditions and both sets have slight delay between proc and hit. And You can also add vMA 2h to them as a cherry on the top. And if You're not satisfied with critical charge You can always try good old snipe from hide which also procs both caluurion and red mountain.

The problem is that if the opponent does a dodge roll after being hit by crit charge, and dodges the 2 procs, then you’re just a sitting duck with a mag and a stam set while your opponent pummels you.

luckily enough they are proc sets and u can push ur hp and/or sustain to the sky and survive the next 10 seconds so u can try again.

Rianai

Juhasow wrote: »

Actually when You think about it magblade could use it pretty effectively with destro staff by doing la+clench from cloak with ele weapon used preferably before la. Light attack will hit enemy and proc both sets and clench will stun him when projectiles will be flying at him.

Why use Clench when you have Incap? Calu, Flame Blossom, Red Mountain ... all going to proc on the initial la (possibly buffed by empower and ele/crushing weapon), the following Incap will stun right before the procs land (thanks to the cast time, what irony). Nearly impossible to counter when used from stealth. But hey, let's just put a delay on a nb's actual burst skill so it can't be combo'd properly because "counterplay".

Rakdos

stamina player finally got their own version of caluurion

Tommy_The_Gun

Shadow of the Red Mountain:

Increased the damage this set deals to 12840, up from 5918.
Increased the cooldown to 8 seconds, up from 2.

So it deals 12840 damage every 8 seconds every time you deal damage... well I just wanted to point something out....

Viper's Sting:
(5 items) When you deal damage with a melee attack, you deal an additional 6400 Poison Damage over 4 seconds. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds.

- Red Mountain: 12840 / 8 seconds = 1605 dmg per second
- Viper's Sting: 6400 / 4 seconds = 1600 dmg per second

So basically, it is kinda like "better version" of Viper, because it gives you burst dmg vs sustained dot damage, but it can be proced from distance (Viper only works on melee range). While damage is comparable - Red Mountain is better, despite being overland tradable set vs viper that is a dungeon non-tradable set.

Note:
Remember how long time ago Viper used to deal burst damage very 6 seconds ? Upcoming Red Mountain look dangerously similar...

Firstmep

You could pair it up with tremorscale, and use pierce armor to proc both, and also reduce targets resistances at the same time so both hit harder.
Heck throw in master s/b to get some extra healing and resistance at the same time.

universal_wrath

fred4 wrote: »

I don't think they killed it, they're just targeting a different customer now: Me. If this procs from light attacks, then it seems worth trying to gank people with on a magblade. This and Caluurion together...

it was and still telegraphic and easy to avoid. if they increase the cooldown, least thing they can do is to make it AOE instead of single target. you you have sets like flame blossom and mad tinkerer that does more damage and are AOE, and almost same as the newly changed cooldown of red mountain. also both flame blossom and mad tinkerer have an extra feature to them, flame blossom apply status effect and mad tinkerer stun everything on its way.

the new change is only going to make the set a cheap to acquire until you get your hands on a better version like flame blossom or way of fire.

Burtan

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Shadow of the Red Mountain:

Increased the damage this set deals to 12840, up from 5918.
Increased the cooldown to 8 seconds, up from 2.

So it deals 12840 damage every 8 seconds every time you deal damage... well I just wanted to point something out....

Viper's Sting:
(5 items) When you deal damage with a melee attack, you deal an additional 6400 Poison Damage over 4 seconds. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds.

- Red Mountain: 12840 / 8 seconds = 1605 dmg per second
- Viper's Sting: 6400 / 4 seconds = 1600 dmg per second

So basically, it is kinda like "better version" of Viper, because it gives you burst dmg vs sustained dot damage, but it can be proced from distance (Viper only works on melee range). While damage is comparable - Red Mountain is better, despite being overland tradable set vs viper that is a dungeon non-tradable set.

Note:
Remember how long time ago Viper used to deal burst damage very 6 seconds ? Upcoming Red Mountain look dangerously similar...

You can't really compare these two sets in straight DPS statistics unless its purely in a PvE environment, Red Mountain as it is right now on PTS is miles ahead of a set like Viper when you put them in any PvP scenario.

As you said, Viper provides a small DoT that may be on ok choice for DoT based builds if they were viable (which they aren't right now).

The problem with Red Mountain is that it provides a huge amount of burst which can be combined with other forms of damage and crowd control to instantly kill other players with little effort.

Instant kills are already commonplace in no CP, lets not make it even worse by having item sets hit you for more than ultimates.

Nerhesi

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

More reliable smaller procs are much nicer feeling to build around. Worse for PVP sure but I use them anyway, they feel a lot better.

Technically "better" for PvP as in less insta-gib but I know what you mean.

Nerhesi

Burtan wrote: »

Instant kills are already commonplace in no CP, lets not make it even worse by having item sets hit you for more than ultimates.

If you build non-tanky in non-CP.

I run both Caluurions Magblade and other classes (magden, magcro, stamblade). Only my glass cannons are insta-killable.

The rest is impossible to instant assuming you dont lag out the bf and followup roll and potion.

Maulkin

pieratsos wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Funnily enough in the same patch notes they've opened a window for combining red mountain with caluurion. Put those two and enjoy instant nukes in PvP by simply using critical charge+execute spam. Both of those sets will hit basically at the same time because critical charge combines both proc conditions and both sets have slight delay between proc and hit. And You can also add vMA 2h to them as a cherry on the top. And if You're not satisfied with critical charge You can always try good old snipe from hide which also procs both caluurion and red mountain.

The problem is that if the opponent does a dodge roll after being hit by crit charge, and dodges the 2 procs, then you’re just a sitting duck with a mag and a stam set while your opponent pummels you.

luckily enough they are proc sets and u can push ur hp and/or sustain to the sky and survive the next 10 seconds so u can try again.

Luckily enough pushing high HP and sustain in No CP while running these two sets is impossible. And if you were planning to run those in CP, well then.... good luck there as well.

Burtan

Nerhesi wrote: »

Burtan wrote: »

Instant kills are already commonplace in no CP, lets not make it even worse by having item sets hit you for more than ultimates.

If you build non-tanky in non-CP.

I run both Caluurions Magblade and other classes (magden, magcro, stamblade). Only my glass cannons are insta-killable.

The rest is impossible to instant assuming you dont lag out the bf and followup roll and potion.

Regardless of the experience you have in Cyrodiil, Red Mountain has a higher burst tooltip than any ultimate in non-CP and you dont need to build for damage to reach said tooltip.

Item sets dealing the same dmg as regular skills is one thing and is debatable but a single item set dealing more damage than Ultimates in non-CP without building for it simple isn't balanced.

Example:

You could make a heavy armour Stamina Warden in non-CP with 30-35k health that has invested absolutely nothing into damage besides slotting Malacath and has the following Tooltips;

Red Mountain 17590
Dawnbreaker 13k and 15k damage over time (mitigated by evasion)
Onslaught 12800
Wild Guardian 11461

Notice that the highest source of single target damage here is an item set with a cooldown of 8 seconds while the rest are Ultimate abilities, supposedly the strongest tools in a characters arsenal.

imo the biggest problem here is that Malacath works with proc sets, if it didn't then you would see some much more balanced numbers here. Furthermore, proc sets should scale on a players offensive stats to prevent this kind of dmg being given with no investment.

pieratsos

Maulkin wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Funnily enough in the same patch notes they've opened a window for combining red mountain with caluurion. Put those two and enjoy instant nukes in PvP by simply using critical charge+execute spam. Both of those sets will hit basically at the same time because critical charge combines both proc conditions and both sets have slight delay between proc and hit. And You can also add vMA 2h to them as a cherry on the top. And if You're not satisfied with critical charge You can always try good old snipe from hide which also procs both caluurion and red mountain.

The problem is that if the opponent does a dodge roll after being hit by crit charge, and dodges the 2 procs, then you’re just a sitting duck with a mag and a stam set while your opponent pummels you.

luckily enough they are proc sets and u can push ur hp and/or sustain to the sky and survive the next 10 seconds so u can try again.

Luckily enough pushing high HP and sustain in No CP while running these two sets is impossible. And if you were planning to run those in CP, well then.... good luck there as well.

If u cant push high hp and/or sustain with proc sets to survive 10 seconds then others wont either if they want to maintain some sort of dmg. Luckily enough procs will carry ur dmg tenfold compared to a stat based build for example.