PVE Plead: Please leave Harmony alone

DrSlaughtr

I PVE and PVP. I see the strength Harmony brings in Cyrodiil. But in PVE I rely on Harmony as a main tank in many of the newer trials and dungeons (looking at you, vCR). Reducing Harmony will disproportionately affect pve tanks, which have already suffered under previous patches where ESO tried to nerf aspects of PVP.

While Harmony necro bombers are tough to deal with, they aren't even the most annoying thing going on right now (looking at you, engine guardian).

If the desire is to limit bombing, then why buff VD? If bombing so is out of control, why not decrease the synergy damage or remove the ability to self proc graveyard?

You already hurt some PVE tanks who relied on certain monster helms. Please don't mess with harmony.

MashmalloMan

Why should 1 jewelry trait give you +35% healing, damage, cc, etc with synergies? I mean, thats +105% to synergies with 3 traits, it's been insane since release. It's baffling it took ZOS this long to realize it. Nothing in the game should be THAT polarzing.

Can you imagine how hard that makes it for balancing from a design perspective? How do you decide the strength of synergy's when you know the higher damage 1's like boneyard will be juiced out. Taking 1 huge niche out of the game will result in better design decisions going forward, if Mag Necro is lacking in 1 area, they no longer have the argument "well yeah but they can synergy bomb".

The trait has only been made available for roughly 2 years now anyway, tanks did just fine without it before, they'll do fine with it more balanced out now. Theres also a ton of new sets that have disproportionately increased group dps, making tanks lives easier so I wouldn't really worry too much here.

But I don't tank, I just think +105% to synergy's for roughly 3k resources is an uneven trade.

LegendaryOaks

Most tanks i know use infused or robust (alkosh) jewelry anyway, i will rarely see a tank using harmony trait outside of cloudrest, harmony is already niche as it is, nerfing it will just make it a dead trait, itll not help anyone. Taking away a classes playstyle because you think it's overpowered is just going to make the game worse and even more boring than it is

IonicKai

It's an overnerf IMO. With the new change 3 harmony would be weaker than 2 is on live by 15%. That's almost a 50% power reduction from live to PTS if you went 3 harmony before.

Onefrkncrzypope

The damage was overtuned. The resource gain is unneeded, roll argonian or balance or bloodlords. I'ma miss the healing through baneful though

codierussell

From the PVP side it is way too strong. Plus VD is being buffed to the max so that would make it even stronger in PVP. It also isn't just the necro self synergy, someone in 3 harmony with any damage synergy like orbs is way too strong.

For PVE there is only one area it is used, Cloudrest. But even then once you know how to tank it you don't need it. There are a lot of other things like vitality potions that work just as good plus you don't need a special set of jewelry.

This is a good change since it will make PVP a better place and not overly effect PVE. If you can't tank vcr without harmony then I don't really know what to say.

Apox

simple solution is to just nerf the damage bonus o harmony and leave the rest alone since its fairly balanced for pve and pvp. nobody should be popped for 20k grverobbers, but thats the only area where its broken. the rest is fine as is

bharathitman

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

The damage was overtuned. The resource gain is unneeded, roll argonian or balance or bloodlords. I'ma miss the healing through baneful though

Harmony was a thing for vCR main tanks in the past. Now it's pretty much redundant and people have learnt to heal through it, most tanks don't even use it. With 2 healers who know what they are doing, healing through baneful is trivial. You still have synergies from blood altar, bone surge and then you have tools such as igneous shields, major vit pots, earthgore, malubeth etc

redgreensunset

Lol the pvp players going l2p at pve players when they ask to not nerf something into oblivion in pve, because they're annoyed at something is too strong in pvp.

bharathitman

I am not a pvp player, but I think the main issue with Harmony was the near infinite sustain and OP healing in ball groups rather than necro bombers. Harmony affected bone surge, altar and combustion. This made many co-ordinated groups literally impossible to kil

Onefrkncrzypope

bharathitman wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

The damage was overtuned. The resource gain is unneeded, roll argonian or balance or bloodlords. I'ma miss the healing through baneful though

Harmony was a thing for vCR main tanks in the past. Now it's pretty much redundant and people have learnt to heal through it, most tanks don't even use it. With 2 healers who know what they are doing, healing through baneful is trivial. You still have synergies from blood altar, bone surge and then you have tools such as igneous shields, major vit pots, earthgore, malubeth etc

Yeah, I wasn't trying to defend harmony though rather not change to some other half brain trait. Oooo more stats(triune).... Or poo more enchant power... Harmony was the most rewarding tank jewel trait. But yeah expecting nice things to stay in this game 😂

Sandman929

I don't know why they didn't just address the problematic synergies themselves rather than the trait

Atherakhia

Sandman929 wrote: »

I don't know why they didn't just address the problematic synergies themselves rather than the trait

They needed to do both.

Cinbri

Sandman929 wrote: »

I don't know why they didn't just address the problematic synergies themselves rather than the trait

Before harmony introduction there was no problematic synergies. But zos knows how to make things worse..

ExistingRug61

I don't use harmony so feel free to ignore my unqualified suggestion on this - but if the issue with harmony was the burst potential, then would a reasonable alternative would be to change harmony to synergy cooldown reduction instead of increased synergy effectiveness?
That way it should still be able to find a value where it balances the current effect over time by increasing your synergy frequency but at the normal effect, rather than bigger effects at the normal interval.
Probably not going to happen at this point though as this is a functional change rather than just tweaking a value.

DrSlaughtr

Saying that "no tank run Harmony" is just bs. Maybe on PC but on XB for trials it's used just as often and sometimes more than infused. Not everyone runs argonian with potion cooldown glyphs. For most of my tanks I run Nord because I prefer it's passives and when running Harmony I don't need argonian sustain. If I'm getting bubbles or altars, I run harmony. If not I'm running infused.

There are plenty ways for them to adjust PvP damage output than nerfing a jewelry trait when the source is really graveyard. No one complaining about gravity crush with team work harmony. So why not just the eliminate the ability to self synergize. That would still affect me because one of my tanks is an necro and I appreciate the ability to self synergize graveyard to keep alkosh up more often. But I'd rather that than just a complete nerve to harmony which is unneeded.

PVPers like to enjoy the new PVE toys that they can abuse but then demand them to be nerfed even though they are perfectly fine for PVE.

Jodynn

If it's truly just a PvP issue just make Harmony be affected by BattleSpirit, then everyone wins.

TheKingofSass

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

If it's truly just a PvP issue just make Harmony be affected by BattleSpirit, then everyone wins.

This. I'm getting sick of stuff getting nerfed or becoming useless in PVE cause a bunch of PVP people wedging their pants. This way everyone wins.

But again, its totally on ZoS to blame anyway, they seem to lack the ability to properly balance things. They either make stuff too OP or turn it into camel doodoo.

Kingslayer513

bharathitman wrote: »

I am not a pvp player, but I think the main issue with Harmony was the near infinite sustain and OP healing in ball groups rather than necro bombers. Harmony affected bone surge, altar and combustion. This made many co-ordinated groups literally impossible to kil

Nah that's not the issue at all. Ball groups have plenty of healing without harmony. The thing that ball groups do is have specific people spec as harmony bombers in the group. Everyone casts proxy det at the same time, then the harmony bombers activate all the group's synergies right when the proxies go off. That's how you get gravity crush hitting you for 15k through mitigation, resistances, etc.

Harmony should have just never effected damage in the first place.

Canned_Apples

Caluurion has always been over tuned, yet they still went and buffed that set.

Vaoh

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Why should 1 jewelry trait give you +35% healing, damage, cc, etc with synergies? I mean, thats +105% to synergies with 3 traits, it's been insane since release. It's baffling it took ZOS this long to realize it. Nothing in the game should be THAT polarzing.

Can you imagine how hard that makes it for balancing from a design perspective? How do you decide the strength of synergy's when you know the higher damage 1's like boneyard will be juiced out. Taking 1 huge niche out of the game will result in better design decisions going forward, if Mag Necro is lacking in 1 area, they no longer have the argument "well yeah but they can synergy bomb".

The trait has only been made available for roughly 2 years now anyway, tanks did just fine without it before, they'll do fine with it more balanced out now. Theres also a ton of new sets that have disproportionately increased group dps, making tanks lives easier so I wouldn't really worry too much here.

But I don't tank, I just think +105% to synergy's for roughly 3k resources is an uneven trade.

I disagree. Why does Harmony need to be nerfed for PvE?

Magcros were not synergy bombing in PvE, so where was Harmony so powerful that it was the only trait to use....

PvE DPS do not use this.
PvE Healers do not use this.
PvE tanks occasionally use this, and only really for a few fights such as vCR HM. I’ve even been in vCR HM runs where tanks were fine without Harmony.

Really it comes down to these simple questions:
Is Harmony overperforming in PvE? Absolutely not, it is very niche in usefulness over other traits and rarely used.
Is Harmony overperforming in PvP? Yes, so add in a nerf to synergy-enhancing effects (aka Harmony) through Battle Spirit. The entire purpose of Battle Spirit is to not implement arrogant blanket nerfs.

If we consider a 35% bigger heal on Blood Altar’s synergy to be OP then idk how we can allow anything close to 60% increased jewelry enchantment effects (Infused) which last the entire fight to be considered fine in PvE.