Druid as a new class

amm7sb14_ESO

Browart wrote: »

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

Guys, the next class is almost certainly going to be Battlemage.

And to be honest, if this means we get a class that utilises fire, ice and shock magic in one class, I will be so happy LOL.

u already have class with fire, ice, shock and its called necromancer

Agreed, tho in the other poster's defense, he may want a class like that that's not centered around death and corpses.

Celestro

Browart wrote: »

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

Guys, the next class is almost certainly going to be Battlemage.

And to be honest, if this means we get a class that utilises fire, ice and shock magic in one class, I will be so happy LOL.

u already have class with fire, ice, shock and its called necromancer

Yeah I never fully understood why they were ever implemented with each of those damage types. Didn't particularly scream Necromancer. Ice and by some small extent maybe Fire, but not Shock. Those could've been applied to another class altogether.

But then again, each class has certain damage types that revolve them in certain ways, so after Warden and Frost Damage, nothing else after would likely have a real "specialization". Still, Necromancer's being elementalist is a little questionable. /shrug

Anyway, as much as I like the idea of Battlemage being a thing, I can't help but question if it'll be the next class (or if another class will even happen). Since it was one of the originally classes at first, you could have almost expected it to have been the sixth instead of Necromancer, but the aforementioned was requested quite a fair amount.

CMDR_Un1k0rn

Celestro wrote: »

Browart wrote: »

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

Guys, the next class is almost certainly going to be Battlemage.

And to be honest, if this means we get a class that utilises fire, ice and shock magic in one class, I will be so happy LOL.

u already have class with fire, ice, shock and its called necromancer

Yeah I never fully understood why they were ever implemented with each of those damage types. Didn't particularly scream Necromancer. Ice and by some small extent maybe Fire, but not Shock. Those could've been applied to another class altogether.

But then again, each class has certain damage types that revolve them in certain ways, so after Warden and Frost Damage, nothing else after would likely have a real "specialization". Still, Necromancer's being elementalist is a little questionable. /shrug

Anyway, as much as I like the idea of Battlemage being a thing, I can't help but question if it'll be the next class (or if another class will even happen). Since it was one of the originally classes at first, you could have almost expected it to have been the sixth instead of Necromancer, but the aforementioned was requested quite a fair amount.

Looking back on it, I think that Battlemage might have been planned at one point, instead of Necromancer. The amount of Imperial presence there is in Elsweyr... It would certainly make sense.

That right there is tin-foil land though.

amm7sb14_ESO

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

Celestro wrote: »

Browart wrote: »

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

Guys, the next class is almost certainly going to be Battlemage.

And to be honest, if this means we get a class that utilises fire, ice and shock magic in one class, I will be so happy LOL.

u already have class with fire, ice, shock and its called necromancer

Yeah I never fully understood why they were ever implemented with each of those damage types. Didn't particularly scream Necromancer. Ice and by some small extent maybe Fire, but not Shock. Those could've been applied to another class altogether.

But then again, each class has certain damage types that revolve them in certain ways, so after Warden and Frost Damage, nothing else after would likely have a real "specialization". Still, Necromancer's being elementalist is a little questionable. /shrug

Anyway, as much as I like the idea of Battlemage being a thing, I can't help but question if it'll be the next class (or if another class will even happen). Since it was one of the originally classes at first, you could have almost expected it to have been the sixth instead of Necromancer, but the aforementioned was requested quite a fair amount.

Looking back on it, I think that Battlemage might have been planned at one point, instead of Necromancer. The amount of Imperial presence there is in Elsweyr... It would certainly make sense.

That right there is tin-foil land though.

Well there is a lot of speculation that the next zone DLC will be Imperial related, so maybe we get Battlemage with that

NotaDaedraWorshipper

If we get Cyrodiil theme next year along with battlemage class I might need to change underwear.

Rake

how about bard

Edelner

Waden's name should be changed to druid.ESO doesn't need new classes.Eso didn't need a necromancer.This game need completely rework all classes.

amm7sb14_ESO

Edelner wrote: »

Waden's name should be changed to druid.ESO doesn't need new classes.Eso didn't need a necromancer.This game need completely rework all classes.

I disagree. The game needed necros very much so. I've been waiting to be able to play as a necro since beta.

Ratzkifal

It's not completely off the table but it's certainly very strange and I doubt it would actually make for a good class.
When it comes to the lore there are plenty of possibilities.

Technically every Bosmer knows how to shapeshift at an instinctual level through the Wild Hunt, only that it is one of their biggest taboos. The Green Pact strictly forbids shapeshifting of any kind.
However there were "changelings" who did not accede to the Green Pact. Their spirits are trapped and protected at Ouze in hopes that they would one day accept Y'ffre's teachings and join the other Bosmer. Selene is a rare example of a Changling that is free to roam and she shapeshifts into a spider.

Now with Greymoor we learned that a priestess of Kyne can shapeshift into an Owl through "clever magic", which is a type of magic associated with Shor, the "Clever God". It stands to reason that this could be something many people could pick up, although it's not clear what the limitations of that magic are or who can actually teach you or if this is something only Nords can learn.

Argonians can shapeshift to some degree, but it should be noted that this is caused by the Hist and doesn't happen instantly, so they are somewhat off the table for a real class even if they can drastically alter their forms throughout their life if the Hist so wishes.


Now as for why I think it is a bad design for a class, well, every transformation skill would only do exactly that, transform the caster into a beast. There would have to be additional skills for that beast form, otherwise it would just be a boring light attack class.
This means that it would either need to immitate and thus cheapen the Werewolf transformation or that it would require certain skills to change in effect depending on form, similar to how destruction staff skills handle different elements. The more transformation options you offer, the bigger this problem becomes as the skills and morphs become more and more complex.
The other problem is that forms need to either cover all bases each or make switching forms necessary since you can't do everything in just one form.
If one form has everything covered (damage, healing, resistance, mobility, crowd control) then there is no point to using any of the other forms at all, which cheapens the whole point of the class and makes most of your skills useless.
If one form can only do one thing well, then in actual combat you would have to switch forms constantly, which will definitely not feel very good to play, especially if transformation animations are included. You'd have to include an animation from each animal to another unless you have them all go through human form first. Your reaction times would be too slow as you cannot switch fast enough to the form with the skill you suddenly need the most.

amm7sb14_ESO

Would the shape-shifting be a necessity for a Druid class?

I'm not familiar with shape-shifting being a staple for druids.

Is it an Elder Scrolls lore thing? If so, I'm not fully familiar with all the ins and outs of the lore, so if in lore druids in Elder Scrolls are shape-shifters by nature, then that makes sense.

But in general, I haven't known shape-shifting to be a definitive trait of druids.

For how I perceive druids, the Warden class is fine. Not perfect, but it gets the job done satisfactory.

Wolf81

I would rather they add additional or refine current skill trees of the existing classes now than make another one. They could easily emphasize more 'druid' style aspects to warden this way..something related to spriggans perhaps?

SlimeBro1

ad4mss wrote: »

I'm wondering if Druid class would actually fit ESO lore as I really would like to see a class which would base on the shapeshifting skills. What are your thoughts on such class?

might I point you towards warden?

Nemesis7884

I am wondering though if it could be interesting to have a class for which every one of the 3 skill lines - tanking, dps, healing is another transformation... similar to the revenant class from gw2

amm7sb14_ESO

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

I am wondering though if it could be interesting to have a class for which every one of the 3 skill lines - tanking, dps, healing is another transformation... similar to the revenant class from gw2

What about people who mix trees together... I.E. most everyone

FrancisCrawford

What you described as the TES bard is, to me, very close to the D&D bard archetype.

mairwen85 wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

That's the Warden. Yes.

I agree with those who suggest some kind of Bard will be the next one. That there will be a Bard personality next DLC, and that we have had several bard costumes, and that we had the Bards College recently, is kind of a good "hint" I guess (remember the necro personality, and several "necro'ish" crown store items, and necro themed content - prior to the Necromancer).

I still kind of laugh a bit thinking about what kind of offensive class abilities a Bard could have? "Untuned Violin Strings of Torment"? "Black Metal Drum solo of Tinnitus?" "Boring R'n'B tune of Suffocation"? "Carzy Frog Blast of Insanity"?

I think that's mainly because people misinterpret the traditional TES Bard and conflate it with the DnD Bard archetype. The 2 are very different. TES Bard uses charms (buffs/debuffs), enchantment, illusion and alteration, restoration and destruction, blade and staff, and a handful of rogue-ish abilities. Its a jack of all trades, but master of none, a true hybrid. The concept being that Bard is the profession and to be a good Bard, you need to seek out the adventure and party with capable heroes for your stories and songs. To do this you need to learn many combat disciplines to be able to support the hero of your tale. Not quite a healer, not quite dps, but a bit of whatever is needed.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Arena:Classes#Bard

A Bard is the proverbial "Jack of all Trades". They are able to perform many tasks, including but not limited to critical strikes, weapons skill, picking locks/pockets, and magic. They are a very versatile class, able to take up slack in almost any situation. Bards receive an amount equal to their Intelligence in spell points. A Bard's critical strike capability is useful when cornered by stronger opponents, though their chance to score is not as great as Thieves and the others in this subclass.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Humanoid#Bard

Bards are the most versatile class, learned in many different arts. They are familiar with weaponry, magic, and the thiefly talents.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Classes#Bard

Intelligent and personable, they prefer to accomplish tasks with their words first, and sword second.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Classes#Bard

Bards are loremasters and storytellers. They crave adventure for the wisdom and insight to be gained, and must depend on sword, shield, spell and enchantment to preserve them from the perils of their educational experiences.

mairwen85

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

What you described as the TES bard is, to me, very close to the D&D bard archetype.

mairwen85 wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

That's the Warden. Yes.

I agree with those who suggest some kind of Bard will be the next one. That there will be a Bard personality next DLC, and that we have had several bard costumes, and that we had the Bards College recently, is kind of a good "hint" I guess (remember the necro personality, and several "necro'ish" crown store items, and necro themed content - prior to the Necromancer).

I still kind of laugh a bit thinking about what kind of offensive class abilities a Bard could have? "Untuned Violin Strings of Torment"? "Black Metal Drum solo of Tinnitus?" "Boring R'n'B tune of Suffocation"? "Carzy Frog Blast of Insanity"?

I think that's mainly because people misinterpret the traditional TES Bard and conflate it with the DnD Bard archetype. The 2 are very different. TES Bard uses charms (buffs/debuffs), enchantment, illusion and alteration, restoration and destruction, blade and staff, and a handful of rogue-ish abilities. Its a jack of all trades, but master of none, a true hybrid. The concept being that Bard is the profession and to be a good Bard, you need to seek out the adventure and party with capable heroes for your stories and songs. To do this you need to learn many combat disciplines to be able to support the hero of your tale. Not quite a healer, not quite dps, but a bit of whatever is needed.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Arena:Classes#Bard

A Bard is the proverbial "Jack of all Trades". They are able to perform many tasks, including but not limited to critical strikes, weapons skill, picking locks/pockets, and magic. They are a very versatile class, able to take up slack in almost any situation. Bards receive an amount equal to their Intelligence in spell points. A Bard's critical strike capability is useful when cornered by stronger opponents, though their chance to score is not as great as Thieves and the others in this subclass.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Humanoid#Bard

Bards are the most versatile class, learned in many different arts. They are familiar with weaponry, magic, and the thiefly talents.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Classes#Bard

Intelligent and personable, they prefer to accomplish tasks with their words first, and sword second.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Classes#Bard

Bards are loremasters and storytellers. They crave adventure for the wisdom and insight to be gained, and must depend on sword, shield, spell and enchantment to preserve them from the perils of their educational experiences.

There certainly is a lot of cross-over, I'm not disputing that, but in DnD, there is a greater emphasis on the attribution of music. I'm not saying that isn't part of the makeup of TES bard, as per my other posts. What they share is melee capability, magic, speechcraft, illusion, and charms, but the traditional TES bard isn't locked into instrumentation as their core identity, but more the fluidity of multiple disciplines. I wouldn't be against weapons enhanced by song/verse/words of power, or tonal augmentation of the physical world, or charms that cause enemies to fight each other, or illusionary attacks, or (as stated previously) (de)buffs through music, mantras, chants, or arias, but I, personally, feel people need to see beyond the lute as a primary weapon, because in no previous incarnation of the class in combat for TES has that ever been a thing. I feel there's a lot of room to do something interesting and creative without cliché given the pre-existing universe depiction that doesn't end up with a clone of something from other games and franchises or other universe established lore (necromancer, diabolo 3).

Maybe I'm overthinking it, but that's how I see it regardless. 😉

Wolfchild07

A bard that sings/uses a lute has to be the most tropey thing in fantasy games. Bards are performers/entertainers. That opens up alot of roles. A bard could be a knife juggler, throwing knives at enemies. Or a firedancer, burning their foes.

As far as druid class goes, a warden is not one, and it doesn't seem to fit ES lore anyway. Although Wyresses use shapeshifting, it's even in one of the quests. They even cause you to shapeshift in the quest. So if they were going to add a shapeshifting class, then it should be the wyress class. I'm not sure on the lore of them though.

StamPlar_1976

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

What you described as the TES bard is, to me, very close to the D&D bard archetype.

mairwen85 wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

That's the Warden. Yes.

I agree with those who suggest some kind of Bard will be the next one. That there will be a Bard personality next DLC, and that we have had several bard costumes, and that we had the Bards College recently, is kind of a good "hint" I guess (remember the necro personality, and several "necro'ish" crown store items, and necro themed content - prior to the Necromancer).

I still kind of laugh a bit thinking about what kind of offensive class abilities a Bard could have? "Untuned Violin Strings of Torment"? "Black Metal Drum solo of Tinnitus?" "Boring R'n'B tune of Suffocation"? "Carzy Frog Blast of Insanity"?

I think that's mainly because people misinterpret the traditional TES Bard and conflate it with the DnD Bard archetype. The 2 are very different. TES Bard uses charms (buffs/debuffs), enchantment, illusion and alteration, restoration and destruction, blade and staff, and a handful of rogue-ish abilities. Its a jack of all trades, but master of none, a true hybrid. The concept being that Bard is the profession and to be a good Bard, you need to seek out the adventure and party with capable heroes for your stories and songs. To do this you need to learn many combat disciplines to be able to support the hero of your tale. Not quite a healer, not quite dps, but a bit of whatever is needed.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Arena:Classes#Bard

A Bard is the proverbial "Jack of all Trades". They are able to perform many tasks, including but not limited to critical strikes, weapons skill, picking locks/pockets, and magic. They are a very versatile class, able to take up slack in almost any situation. Bards receive an amount equal to their Intelligence in spell points. A Bard's critical strike capability is useful when cornered by stronger opponents, though their chance to score is not as great as Thieves and the others in this subclass.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Humanoid#Bard

Bards are the most versatile class, learned in many different arts. They are familiar with weaponry, magic, and the thiefly talents.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Classes#Bard

Intelligent and personable, they prefer to accomplish tasks with their words first, and sword second.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Classes#Bard

Bards are loremasters and storytellers. They crave adventure for the wisdom and insight to be gained, and must depend on sword, shield, spell and enchantment to preserve them from the perils of their educational experiences.

Pretty much. I've played a bard in 1e and 2e DnD and that is exactly how bards are there. I'm not sure about them in the later editions. But the first two editions of bard played exactly how he described the TES bards. Jack of all trades, master of none. It even stated it in their descriptions in the rulebooks lol.

Mortiis13

Battlemage
/thread

It was already planed for release like warden, so the concept should still be in the desk somewhere

ad4mss

Warden class is like ranger class not druid which actually base on the shapeshifting. Anyway, we have received Warden as a first new class in ESO which archetype is closer to fighter than a mage, then we have received a necromancer class which is mage archetype.

I assume that now it's time for next fighter archetype class Wondering if battlemage could fit that.

Bucky_13

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Bucky_13 wrote: »

Well warden, make them werewolves for the shapeshifting aspect. Not BiS but fun.

imo, "fun" > "BiS" all day every day.

I will build efficiently, but all of my chars prioritize the roleplay concept that I am trying to go for, and what brings me fun in the build, above min / max efficiency.

Ala my Breton Necromancer tank who is also a vampire, and utilizes vamprism on his bars and in his tanking style.

My Wood Elf Warden tank who is my version of a Druid, and run's Selene's monster set for a spiritual bear attack.

I prefer fun as well. And I rp my chars as well, only I have a thing for sneaking so most of them are nightblades . There's just something about playing assassins in MMOs that I love.

One of the most fun builds I have is my pacifist nightblade who is basically a hybrid nb, using no weapons. She have lots of regen, speed, permacloak and zero kills so far. I bring her into Cyro occasionally where I play her solo and usually repair walls, ress other players or burn enemy sieges.

mairwen85

StamPlar_1976 wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

What you described as the TES bard is, to me, very close to the D&D bard archetype.

mairwen85 wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

That's the Warden. Yes.

I agree with those who suggest some kind of Bard will be the next one. That there will be a Bard personality next DLC, and that we have had several bard costumes, and that we had the Bards College recently, is kind of a good "hint" I guess (remember the necro personality, and several "necro'ish" crown store items, and necro themed content - prior to the Necromancer).

I still kind of laugh a bit thinking about what kind of offensive class abilities a Bard could have? "Untuned Violin Strings of Torment"? "Black Metal Drum solo of Tinnitus?" "Boring R'n'B tune of Suffocation"? "Carzy Frog Blast of Insanity"?

I think that's mainly because people misinterpret the traditional TES Bard and conflate it with the DnD Bard archetype. The 2 are very different. TES Bard uses charms (buffs/debuffs), enchantment, illusion and alteration, restoration and destruction, blade and staff, and a handful of rogue-ish abilities. Its a jack of all trades, but master of none, a true hybrid. The concept being that Bard is the profession and to be a good Bard, you need to seek out the adventure and party with capable heroes for your stories and songs. To do this you need to learn many combat disciplines to be able to support the hero of your tale. Not quite a healer, not quite dps, but a bit of whatever is needed.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Arena:Classes#Bard

A Bard is the proverbial "Jack of all Trades". They are able to perform many tasks, including but not limited to critical strikes, weapons skill, picking locks/pockets, and magic. They are a very versatile class, able to take up slack in almost any situation. Bards receive an amount equal to their Intelligence in spell points. A Bard's critical strike capability is useful when cornered by stronger opponents, though their chance to score is not as great as Thieves and the others in this subclass.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Humanoid#Bard

Bards are the most versatile class, learned in many different arts. They are familiar with weaponry, magic, and the thiefly talents.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Classes#Bard

Intelligent and personable, they prefer to accomplish tasks with their words first, and sword second.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Classes#Bard

Bards are loremasters and storytellers. They crave adventure for the wisdom and insight to be gained, and must depend on sword, shield, spell and enchantment to preserve them from the perils of their educational experiences.

Pretty much. I've played a bard in 1e and 2e DnD and that is exactly how bards are there. I'm not sure about them in the later editions. But the first two editions of bard played exactly how he described the TES bards. Jack of all trades, master of none. It even stated it in their descriptions in the rulebooks lol.

And she conceded that point. I even elaborated on it. Like I said, perhaps I'm over analysing minor differences (having played the bard classes in arena, and daggerfall--the depiction is different in practice in TES). Mainly the primary hangup that weaponry and attacks and abilities must centre around music.

Regardless, I believe that such a class is missing in ESO.

Knightpanther

Everquest (both 1 and 2) did pretty much the best druids i have played in an MMO with two different styles (melee and caster), WOW of course did their own which was also based on shape shifting.

There is no basis for shape shifting as a druid its purely from various literature, story's and games down the years.

As a real life Druid i can attest that sadly we are unable to actually shape shift although my wife may say im a bit of an animal sometimes.

Be Safe

Athyrium93

I feel like Bard would be better as guild than as a class, it would be hard to imagine a bard as a DPS, which every class is capable of, of course there are weapon skills, but making a class without offensive abilities doesn't match the other classes, on the other hand it does fit a guild, and collecting songs and stories would be similar to both the mages guild and the psijic order questlines and how they rank up, plus it would likely give a lot of utility abilities to classes that lack them.

Battlemage feels like a class, and could have both offensive and defensive abilities, but it could also just be a weapon skill line.

From my understanding of lore both would fit very well in a Cyodiil themed chapter, I could see both being released maybe even close together. Maybe we will get a Bards guild in the DLC after the chapter with a weapon line being part of the chapter?

Stx

How would you make a battlemage class? A Battlemage is literally a mage that trains in the use of heavier armors and melee weapons they dont get cut down in battle.

Considering every class can wear heavy armor, use melee weapons and shields... yeah.

If you want to add a mage class that has more traditional mage spells (DKs dont really feel like fire mages, etc) I'm all for it.

CMDR_Un1k0rn

Stx wrote: »

How would you make a battlemage class? A Battlemage is literally a mage that trains in the use of heavier armors and melee weapons they dont get cut down in battle.

Considering every class can wear heavy armor, use melee weapons and shields... yeah.

If you want to add a mage class that has more traditional mage spells (DKs dont really feel like fire mages, etc) I'm all for it.

And that is exactly what I suspect a Battlemage might be used to bring to the game.

ad4mss

Stx wrote: »

How would you make a battlemage class? A Battlemage is literally a mage that trains in the use of heavier armors and melee weapons they dont get cut down in battle.

Considering every class can wear heavy armor, use melee weapons and shields... yeah.

If you want to add a mage class that has more traditional mage spells (DKs dont really feel like fire mages, etc) I'm all for it.

Someone wrote earlier about Battlemage which utilize fire, frost and shock spells so yeah actually ESO is missing class which use all those three. Maybe some kind of new category like earth spells would be nice?

RaddlemanNumber7

The primary function of any new class is to increase sales. Actual utility and functionality is a secondary consideration at best.

So, why would they want to put a Druid class into the game when they could have a Witch class instead?

jlmurra2

I am glad to see so much support for a Battlemage class recently, at least a lot of posts about it. That seemed to be how it was for the Necromancer class, then they announced it, and now we have it. I hope the same happens for a Battemage class.

Zardayne

I've been hoping since the warden came out, that Werewolf would scale off of magica. That would get me as close to a druid as can be in Tamriel.