Metemsycosis wrote: »No.
Please no.
I think templar is overall strongest pvp class and major mending not necessary to have good healing on that class. A snb or well fitted is more than enough added defense. Outnumbered pvp is a chore for anyone and I have no sympathy for classes with insta-ok I don't die buttons, because 1v1s are often stale bc of them.
No.
They are already penultimate best healers and best self healers and every other class was affected more than the templar lacking such amazing mitigation and self healing tools.
Besides snipe and cloak in tandem no other skill gets so much hate as templar Insta heal. Period. For a reason.
Living dark op.
Metemsycosis wrote: »No.
Please no.
I think templar is overall strongest pvp class and major mending not necessary to have good healing on that class. A snb or well fitted is more than enough added defense. Outnumbered pvp is a chore for anyone and I have no sympathy for classes with insta-ok I don't die buttons, because 1v1s are often stale bc of them.
No.
They are already penultimate best healers and best self healers and every other class was affected more than the templar lacking such amazing mitigation and self healing tools.
Besides snipe and cloak in tandem no other skill gets so much hate as templar Insta heal. Period. For a reason.
Living dark op.
KuroyukiESO wrote: »-Kuro
Unified_Gaming wrote: »I think he's getting at the fact that templar historically was a stand its ground and major mending was a big part of that. The loss of it made it harder but not impossible however the recent changes to heals means it can't do that as easy as before, even more so, when taking block into account. As such, it's nice forced to be mobile but mistform being buggy means that isn't an issue so templar suffers all around.
Solution would be to adjust the passives and make it like warden when if you get healed by a templar heal below x% then you get major mending for y seconds. This would give the templar some bounce back and allow them to try and stand their ground.KuroyukiESO wrote: »-Kuro
Regards,
Unified Gaming
Imagine a Templar complaining about to low heals...BoL is still a strong instaheal (strongest in the game). Not to mention being able to purge any DoT with a heal over time (strongest in the game) a ridiculous armor buff with Focus (strongest in the game) and Magplars can even spam Jabs that heal them (Most advantages in the game on one skill).
Templar is by far the most powerful healing class in PvE and PvP, it can stand in absolutely overwhelming numbers and doesn't even care, they are like Necros only with better heals.
Imagine a Templar complaining about to low heals...BoL is still a strong instaheal (strongest in the game). Not to mention being able to purge any DoT with a heal over time (strongest in the game) a ridiculous armor buff with Focus (strongest in the game) and Magplars can even spam Jabs that heal them (Most advantages in the game on one skill).
Templar is by far the most powerful healing class in PvE and PvP, it can stand in absolutely overwhelming numbers and doesn't even care, they are like Necros only with better heals.
KuroyukiESO wrote: »For anyone who read the title and got a little heated and came in here to tell me how wrong I am, please do me the courtesy of reading the post through first, thank you c:
So, as of late ZOS, you have decided to really tone down healing and survivability across the board in PvP. Personally, I am all for it. However, the blanket nerf to healing in general negatively impacted some classes moreso than others. The main one that comes to mind being, you guessed it, Templar.
Now, I am minority player, being a solo player and a PvP Templar main at that. So my opinion may not be valued to highly, but the points I have to make are very valid.
First off, Templar, while being exceptionally strong in group scenarios, is much weaker solo or in outnumbered PvP. Every class in the game has their own unique way of staying alive. You have DK, who's healing on both Stam and Mag is out of this world due to Major mending, a passive 12%, great heals on their offensive kit, and anything else you can slap onto them for additional heals. Warden are very similar, with easy access to Major mending, one of the best utility heals in the game in that of Arctic Blast, free minor protection, a near spammable healing ultimate and an offensive ultimate that gives major protection. Necromancer has access to ridiculous amounts of mitigation through things such as spirit guardian, or their skill that gives major prot (the name escapes me), as well as amazing utility healing, and the best/easiest to utilize burst ability in the game which is great for forcing people to be less offensive, not mention they also get the equivalent of minor mending through passives, as well as a cleanse. Nighblades currently have the most mitigation in the game in most scenarios, as well several forms of mobility that are unmatched by any other class. The only class that rivals nightblade in the mobility department is Sorcerer, with their super powerful streak and ball of lightening, as well as easy access to movement speed buffs. Couple that on top of their strong defense with a powerful ward, pets to line of sight, and access to the strongest group burst heal in the game, and they are leagues above Templar.
What does Templar have? Minor mending, and an expensive cleanse. That's about it. We lack the healing and mitigation necessary to play the up front brawler. We have no mobility to speak of, even less so now that mist form just doesn't work 80% of the time. Our options for burst are limited, and seemingly even more so now that Burning light and Purifying Light/Power of the Light are going to be mostly useless. Couple that with the fact that our dots are also lack luster compared to other classes, and in the end, templar will have nothing. No tankiness, no healing, no damage.
The current state of Templar is unhealthy for the class. In PvP we don't really have many options aside from just going as tanky as possible, or going full healer, and even then every other tank and healer will outperform us.
All Templar needs to get pushed in the right direction again is that extra 17% healing. With heals being as they are now, that would not be enough to make Templars unkillable machines, but rather just give them enough to make them feel like they can stand and fight on their own two feet again.
Thank you for your time
-Kuro
KuroyukiESO wrote: »For anyone who read the title and got a little heated and came in here to tell me how wrong I am, please do me the courtesy of reading the post through first, thank you c:
So, as of late ZOS, you have decided to really tone down healing and survivability across the board in PvP. Personally, I am all for it. However, the blanket nerf to healing in general negatively impacted some classes moreso than others. The main one that comes to mind being, you guessed it, Templar.
Now, I am minority player, being a solo player and a PvP Templar main at that. So my opinion may not be valued to highly, but the points I have to make are very valid.
First off, Templar, while being exceptionally strong in group scenarios, is much weaker solo or in outnumbered PvP. Every class in the game has their own unique way of staying alive. You have DK, who's healing on both Stam and Mag is out of this world due to Major mending, a passive 12%, great heals on their offensive kit, and anything else you can slap onto them for additional heals. Warden are very similar, with easy access to Major mending, one of the best utility heals in the game in that of Arctic Blast, free minor protection, a near spammable healing ultimate and an offensive ultimate that gives major protection. Necromancer has access to ridiculous amounts of mitigation through things such as spirit guardian, or their skill that gives major prot (the name escapes me), as well as amazing utility healing, and the best/easiest to utilize burst ability in the game which is great for forcing people to be less offensive, not mention they also get the equivalent of minor mending through passives, as well as a cleanse. Nighblades currently have the most mitigation in the game in most scenarios, as well several forms of mobility that are unmatched by any other class. The only class that rivals nightblade in the mobility department is Sorcerer, with their super powerful streak and ball of lightening, as well as easy access to movement speed buffs. Couple that on top of their strong defense with a powerful ward, pets to line of sight, and access to the strongest group burst heal in the game, and they are leagues above Templar.
What does Templar have? Minor mending, and an expensive cleanse. That's about it. We lack the healing and mitigation necessary to play the up front brawler. We have no mobility to speak of, even less so now that mist form just doesn't work 80% of the time. Our options for burst are limited, and seemingly even more so now that Burning light and Purifying Light/Power of the Light are going to be mostly useless. Couple that with the fact that our dots are also lack luster compared to other classes, and in the end, templar will have nothing. No tankiness, no healing, no damage.
The current state of Templar is unhealthy for the class. In PvP we don't really have many options aside from just going as tanky as possible, or going full healer, and even then every other tank and healer will outperform us.
All Templar needs to get pushed in the right direction again is that extra 17% healing. With heals being as they are now, that would not be enough to make Templars unkillable machines, but rather just give them enough to make them feel like they can stand and fight on their own two feet again.
Thank you for your time
-Kuro
Of cooooooourse, templars need more buffs! There is absolutely NO REASON to not empower them more!
It's not like pvp is littered with hordes of zerging templars: they are boviously all proficiently tanking!
It's not like that major mending is granted freely when you perform an heavy attack with an healing stave, oh wait...
Sometimes I think people are multiple patches behind the curve. This game keeps changing, man. I am also someone who predominantly runs around solo or in small PUGs in CP open world. I agree with the OP.Imagine a Templar complaining about to low heals...BoL is still a strong instaheal (strongest in the game). Not to mention being able to purge any DoT with a heal over time (strongest in the game) a ridiculous armor buff with Focus (strongest in the game) and Magplars can even spam Jabs that heal them (Most advantages in the game on one skill).
Templar is by far the most powerful healing class in PvE and PvP, it can stand in absolutely overwhelming numbers and doesn't even care, they are like Necros only with better heals.
So, I'm a bit sick of this topic, and though it's a templar thread, I'd like to say that DK is even worse then Templar. Yeah, sure, we have major mending. On a skill that lasts for 6 seconds, and costs 4,000 magicka. We might as well not have major mending at all. Sure, you can get one or two vigors off with fragmented shield... a minute. It certainly, CERTAINLY, doesn't make up for the fact that our heals are absolutely garbage. Magicka DK has Blood, but that's the worst burst heal in the game. Stamina DK has... Cauterize? It's one of the worst skills in the game, and to top it all off it has a chance of healing other people, instead of you.
I, WOULD, KILL, for half the defense of templar. You guys get the strongest major resolve skill in the game, while I need to spend 3k magicka for mine. You guys get a purge that not only makes DOT's useless, But purges everyone else around you, Heals you, and makes you block more. Oh, and your best spammable in the game that only templars get, Jabs, gives you minor protection.
You don't have any idea how good templars have it, OP. I agree, we should buff up all other classes that aren't stamcro and magsorc, so that those of us who rely on just vigor for heals can actually stay alive. But saying that Templar has no defense, and that Dragonknights have so much healing? That's just not true at all.
Everyone, Go make a DK, and fight a stamplar or magplar, and then come back to me and tell me that Templar's don't have any defense.
So, I'm a bit sick of this topic, and though it's a templar thread, I'd like to say that DK is even worse then Templar. Yeah, sure, we have major mending. On a skill that lasts for 6 seconds, and costs 4,000 magicka. We might as well not have major mending at all. Sure, you can get one or two vigors off with fragmented shield... a minute. It certainly, CERTAINLY, doesn't make up for the fact that our heals are absolutely garbage. Magicka DK has Blood, but that's the worst burst heal in the game. Stamina DK has... Cauterize? It's one of the worst skills in the game, and to top it all off it has a chance of healing other people, instead of you.
I, WOULD, KILL, for half the defense of templar. You guys get the strongest major resolve skill in the game, while I need to spend 3k magicka for mine. You guys get a purge that not only makes DOT's useless, But purges everyone else around you, Heals you, and makes you block more. Oh, and your best spammable in the game that only templars get, Jabs, gives you minor protection.
You don't have any idea how good templars have it, OP. I agree, we should buff up all other classes that aren't stamcro and magsorc, so that those of us who rely on just vigor for heals can actually stay alive. But saying that Templar has no defense, and that Dragonknights have so much healing? That's just not true at all.
Everyone, Go make a DK, and fight a stamplar or magplar, and then come back to me and tell me that Templar's don't have any defense.
Everyone, Go make a DK, and fight a stamplar or magplar, and then come back to me and tell me that Templar's don't have any defense.
wait wait wait wait
They dont have Major Mending? I mean I last played them when they did
They took Major Mending away. from the go to healing class.
They took
The healing buff
Away from the Healing Class
Yes I know they can do all rolls I had 2 magic templars back when I played them on console one was pve one was pvp
But it was the main healing class
You know what im not surprised. I see changes that look like no intelligent human being made then in the patch notes as of all this year,and you get comments deleted now for saying anything bad so.
I dont know. part of me hopes that next year will improve things. but this whole year has been the worst eso year .Even more disappointing then finding out that thieves guild didnt come with active skills.
I play both classes, magplar and stam DK, and I can say without hesitation that stam DK is much better (for me), in no small part due to the healing. Stam DK is weathering this patch's healing nerfs better than magplar IMO. I play mostly magicka, by the way, so it's not like I don't know how to play that nor that I simply like stamina better. I play a medium armor DK and I bounce back to full health (in CP) from time to time, because of Cauterize healing simultaneously with Vigor or Rally expiring simultaneously. If you're backed into defense, such that you start spamming Honor the Dead on magplar, you're really, really screwed. The same cannot be said for DK and in the worst case you leap. Such a great ultimate to turn the fight around with (I also wear Titanborn).So, I'm a bit sick of this topic, and though it's a templar thread, I'd like to say that DK is even worse then Templar. Yeah, sure, we have major mending. On a skill that lasts for 6 seconds, and costs 4,000 magicka. We might as well not have major mending at all. Sure, you can get one or two vigors off with fragmented shield... a minute. It certainly, CERTAINLY, doesn't make up for the fact that our heals are absolutely garbage. Magicka DK has Blood, but that's the worst burst heal in the game. Stamina DK has... Cauterize? It's one of the worst skills in the game, and to top it all off it has a chance of healing other people, instead of you.
I, WOULD, KILL, for half the defense of templar. You guys get the strongest major resolve skill in the game, while I need to spend 3k magicka for mine. You guys get a purge that not only makes DOT's useless, But purges everyone else around you, Heals you, and makes you block more. Oh, and your best spammable in the game that only templars get, Jabs, gives you minor protection.
You don't have any idea how good templars have it, OP. I agree, we should buff up all other classes that aren't stamcro and magsorc, so that those of us who rely on just vigor for heals can actually stay alive. But saying that Templar has no defense, and that Dragonknights have so much healing? That's just not true at all.
Everyone, Go make a DK, and fight a stamplar or magplar, and then come back to me and tell me that Templar's don't have any defense.
SshadowSscale wrote: »I am all for giving buffs to other classes... But the fact that you think nightblades have good healing is way to funny for me.... Take away a restro staff from a magblade and it becomes the biggest joke on the planet.... So while you are buffing templars.... Can we maybe throw a bone towards magblades.... They really need it
You have not understood what I said. As someone who plays both classes, I am saying (stam) DK is currently in a stronger position than magplar, no ifs, no buts. If you think not being able to spam Vigor is a drawback, you have not played magplar. Once you are in a position where you end up spamming Honor the Dead, 9 times out of 10 that is a sign you're already dead. Spammable heals do not work well in PvP. They run down your resources like nothing else and then you die. [snip]@kuroyukiESO I think your build is neat, but I don't see how picking up a magicka regen set, running magicka regenerating potions, and running a race and item set to try and generate as much ultimate as possible, all to cast fragmented shield maybe half, means anything. Yeah, sure, you can cast fragmented shield alot when you stack magicka and magicka regen. You can also live forever if you build 50k health on a nightblade. It doesn't mean that nightblades are tanky, or that fragmented shield isn't ridiculously over costed for what it does. What other skills give a singular buff for 6 seconds?
@Kadoin I'd sure like to see this 16k resistance build fighting people. But, even then, I submit that you can make, any, class, tanky. I personally know a guy who loves going out and making tank nightblades, and there's a great clip on one of a... certain Daggerfall Streamer and 10+ dudes trying and failing to kill him on a tank necromancer. Every single class can tank, but I ask... What skills can a DK tank with? There's no purges or % mitigation on a dk.
@fred4 There's nothing wrong with liking one class, or even one style of play over the other. But I think we can both agree that cauterize going off and healing randos in a group is pretty annoying, and really dampens the skill when you consider you only get 4 of those little heals over 15 seconds. But Dk still has to work twice as hard in all of the scenarios you pitched. We have to have an ult ready to heal, and it certainly doesn't make you unkillable. And unlike Magplar, pressing vigor twice does nothing at all, whereas they can mash away at blockcasting heals to only die when they want to. But I don't wanna force you to like Templar, I just want you to hear my opinion that Dragonknights have a harder time at sustaining and damage and, really everything not involving a leap.
It just seems to me like you have to bend over backwards as a Staminadk to even compete with these other classes. And, don't get me wrong, I think Templar should be buffed too. I think it's a travesty that all the class is known for is "Jabs and heals". But, at the same time, I also think that it's unfair that I can't make a dot build, because even a stamina templar can make exactly the same nord+engine guardian or eternal vigor, and completely turn off all of our class identity outside of leap.
I think templar should be buffed in healing, because I've completely given up hope that ZOS will ever buff stamdk again. So while our collective dragon ship is sinking, I just want people to look at our actual skills and realize that we have to try twice as hard as every other class to achieve half as much, especially when it comes to healing.
Just let us dragonknights die in peace XD
I dont think templar needs major mending back, it would just bring us back to the sit on backbar spam BOL meta.
Instead rework eclipse to be an actual good self heal, rework the crappy passives like mending, to work with all heals, make eclipse scale with highest stats etc.
Basically make self healing better without making templar healer in pve even more of a powerhouse.
angelofdeath333 wrote: »Okay hold your horses...nb has the highest dmg mitigation? Are we even playing the same game?