Tips for countering Lantern Guards?

SedoUmbra

Lantern Guards are incredibly frustrating in Sacraments. I don't understand why - in a mission where you are penalised for not being stealthy - they added an enemy that entirely removes your ability to stealth with - from what I can see - no counter play. Stealth in this game is already inconsistent because NPCs like to do random 180s or detect you through boxes when it suits them, but these Lantern Guards are a source of massive frustration for me.

In Sacraments, you have 2 minutes to get from one end of the map to the other, and you can easily spend more than half of that stuck behind a Lantern Guard. I did a Sacrament and I knew there were 2 hallways with Guards that had obnoxiously large revealing auras between me and the way out. I timed my kill of the target so that the closest guard was in the exact position I needed him to be to slip past as quickly as possible. Didn't matter. Spent like 70 seconds stuck behind the second Lantern Guard, and ended up being 10 or so seconds from the exit when the Overseer arrived.

When there is no mechanic to reliably remove them, or distract them so they stay in a certain spot for longer or walk towards a certain spot, or to temporarily disable their lantern they're just a source of frustration. I enjoy challenges that games bring and even when I've had my backside handed to me by the same boss, or the same dungeon over and over it feels like I just need to get good and it motivates me to get better armour, get better weapons, improve my skills bar, or my usage of skills. But this? Literally none of that applies. When I sit back and think "Hmm. What could I have done better?" there is nothing that comes to mind. So, I asked Reddit and they said be a Nightblade and do a one-shot combo on them which was... characteristically unhelpful given that my character is a Warden.

So, now I've come here, to see if there's something that I have missed that will help reduce the frustration of having to sit behind these idiots watching the time for my precious bonus melt away. If anyone has any advice, I'd really appreciate it.

trackdemon5512

@SedoUmbra Invisibility potions made with namiras rot, blessed thistle, and blue entoloma. With full passives they grant about 15 seconds of invisibility as well as major expedition.

The lantern guards have the same paths every time. With the invisibility potions you can very easily complete the dark brotherhood sacraments witthout issue.

Use the Blade of Woe on other characters in sacraments to get them out of your way while trying to quickly accomplish your tasks. And always go for the main target last.

Invisibility pots also make Thieves Guild heist quests incredibly easy. Combine that with the max legerdemain ability to force break locks and those quests are also a breeze.

SeaGtGruff

I haven't done one of those in a while, but IIRC you can be seen by a certain number of NPCs before everybody goes on alert, so I do the secondary goal first, then the primary goal, then try to sneak as much as possible toward the exit, but once I get to a certain point I just run as fast as possible, letting a lantern guard see me and chase me. If you can make it to the entry room before the overseer arrives, and have evaded the lantern guard for several seconds, you can just take the exit.

SedoUmbra

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

Invisibility potions made with namiras rot, blessed thistle, and blue entoloma. With full passives they grant about 15 seconds of invisibility as well as major expedition.

The Lantern Guards remove invisibility, but Major Expedition might actually help a lot. I'll try to keep that in mind when tomorrow's Sacrament rolls around. Thanks.

tsaescishoeshiner

They really could make these Black Sacrament and Heist dailies more fun and challenging by reworking those narrow corridors.

In addition to just letting yourself get seen on the way out of a Black Sacrament, I also just fight them in the corridors sometimes. Easiest thing. Having more movement speed helps with the escape paths — Channeled Acceleration can be cast without breaking sneak or invisibility. So can Harness Magicka with Marauder's Haste, but that's more magicka-intensive.

Ackwalan

The timer does not start until the main objective is completed. Get a 5 piece crafted set Night Mother's Embrace, there other gear that helps stealth, but crafted is the fastest to get.

You can kill the guards fairly easily, if not in one shot the with a follow up heavy attack. Just use a gap closer, stun them and kill them. You should do the secondary mission first, then the primary objective. If not an NB, use those invisibility potions on the way out for a quick escape.

SedoUmbra

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

In addition to just letting yourself get seen on the way out of a Black Sacrament, I also just fight them in the corridors sometimes. Easiest thing. Having more movement speed helps with the escape paths — Channeled Acceleration can be cast without breaking sneak or invisibility. So can Harness Magicka with Marauder's Haste, but that's more magicka-intensive.

Yeah, I've been trying to get the balance between speed and stealth on the way out. Trying to sneak half way to preserve my detection count then run the rest of the way to preserve my time, but it's not ideal and I haven't got the balance right yet. It also leaves me with no room for error during the mission. I can't miss-time anything, I can't make one wrong step (I... have a bit of a habit of pressing movement keys too quickly and rolling when I don't mean to. It's super embarassing) otherwise I don't have enough free detections left to be able to run out of the mission.

SedoUmbra

Ackwalan wrote: »

The timer does not start until the main objective is completed. Get a 5 piece crafted set Night Mother's Embrace, there other gear that helps stealth, but crafted is the fastest to get.

Gear to improve stealth does not help against enemies that negate your stealth.

Ackwalan wrote: »

You can kill the guards fairly easily, if not in one shot the with a follow up heavy attack. Just use a gap closer, stun them and kill them.

I guess it might be worth it to take the time (and sacrifice 1 or 2 detections) to kill the lantern guards if it means I just get to walk out at the end. I'll try that when I next do a Sacrament.

WhisperLFE

SedoUmbra wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

The timer does not start until the main objective is completed. Get a 5 piece crafted set Night Mother's Embrace, there other gear that helps stealth, but crafted is the fastest to get.

Gear to improve stealth does not help against enemies that negate your stealth.

Ackwalan wrote: »

You can kill the guards fairly easily, if not in one shot the with a follow up heavy attack. Just use a gap closer, stun them and kill them.

I guess it might be worth it to take the time (and sacrifice 1 or 2 detections) to kill the lantern guards if it means I just get to walk out at the end. I'll try that when I next do a Sacrament.

I've noticed over the years that very often, killing a lantern guard quickly (and from stealth initially) doesn't trigger a detection.

Ackwalan

SedoUmbra wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

The timer does not start until the main objective is completed. Get a 5 piece crafted set Night Mother's Embrace, there other gear that helps stealth, but crafted is the fastest to get.

Gear to improve stealth does not help against enemies that negate your stealth.

Ackwalan wrote: »

You can kill the guards fairly easily, if not in one shot the with a follow up heavy attack. Just use a gap closer, stun them and kill them.

I guess it might be worth it to take the time (and sacrifice 1 or 2 detections) to kill the lantern guards if it means I just get to walk out at the end. I'll try that when I next do a Sacrament.

If you stun and kill the guards, you won't get detected. Attack them from behind with a gap closer that stuns, kill them before the stun wears off and it won't be a mark against you.

Edit to add. You can also delete the quest while inside the dungeon, that will reset it and you can pick up the quest again. You can practice all you want till you figure out how to do it.

trackdemon5512

@SedoUmbra with the preset paths you can always avoid the lantern guards by either moving out of their path or entering a stealth space. I’ve done these dailies hundreds of times across many characters and can confirm that there is always a location where you’re safe from them.

Furthermore, even if the lanterns force you out of stealth, there exist natural environment items that you can either hide in or will keep you out of the line of sight of these guards. If you ever encounter a guard where you believe you can’t safely pass without ever being sighted start looking for these visual obstructions to shield you.

Raisin

Generally I find that if you're stuck waiting forever behind a lantern guard, it's because you're approaching from the wrong direction. This isn't always the case, but in certain instances it seems that everything is perfectly timed for you if you do the whole thing clockwise (for example), and if you do it anti-clockwise it is absolute torture.
TBH I also find this much worse in Heists, as I more often feel I cannot figure out the 'right' direction/path, and the whole thing is timed. In Sacraments you can easily spend some time plotting your escape route in advance.
Ive personally never used a proper setup for this stuff; just regular DPS gear with no relevant bonuses, no pots, etc. Heists are a nightmare to me and I've never finished one with more than 10 seconds left, but Sacraments are always smooth and usually easy first try for me (and I force quit them if I get detected, only hand in 0/5 detection ones). So I may be biased, but I don't think Sacraments are too difficult once you're in the flow.

Red_Feather

I lot of people say to attack guards from behind and stun from stealth and do enough damage to kill before stun ends.

But not in the open because other NPCs will see it!

Cundu_Ertur

Ackwalan wrote: »

The timer does not start until the main objective is completed. Get a 5 piece crafted set Night Mother's Embrace, there other gear that helps stealth, but crafted is the fastest to get.

You can kill the guards fairly easily, if not in one shot the with a follow up heavy attack. Just use a gap closer, stun them and kill them. You should do the secondary mission first, then the primary objective. If not an NB, use those invisibility potions on the way out for a quick escape.

This is incorrect. There are two night mother's sets, the embrace set is dropped in deshaan (as medium armor) and cannot be crafted. The crafted night mother set (night mother's gaze) does not offer any bonus to hiding. Be wary: a Jack in NME is called "Jack of the Night Mother," which is exactly the same name as a Jack in NMG. Green NME armor is available at fairly reasonable prices, but the prices do scale up as the colors get better. You can also get a hiding bonus with 3 pieces of the Night Terror (overland, medium, stormhaven) set. The night's silence (crafted) or shadow dancer (overland, light, greenshade) sets are nice because you can move at normal speed while hiding. edit to add: so far as I can tell there are no crafted sets that improve hiding radius.

As others have pointed out, leave the main sacrament for last: also, you have lots of time until you do that, just find all of the hidden passages. Each map has a couple of paths that will not show up on the map screen. I've never seen a lantern guard along those hidden paths, though they will pass by the entrances to them.

sharquez

you can kill lantern guards with no penalty if you do it fast enough iirc

ShawnLaRock

I recommend a set-up with 5 Night Mother‘s Embrace; 3 Night Terror; and 4 Darloc Brae (with 2 of those being the “unique” Hidden Moon Band rings, that come with Swift Trait already on them).

You’ll be zippin’ through the gaps the Lantern Guards leave, easy-peasy.

S.

LashanW

For sacrements and heists I use the following gear with jewelry swift trait,
5x Night's Silence (craftable)
3x Night Terror

You will be very fast even when sneaking with very little stamina drain (with medium armor passives and CP).

As for the lantern guards, you can one shot the guards in annoying places like most people said. If you do it quick enough there will be no detected penalty.

For a mag warden, cast deep fissure, charge up a heavy fire staff attack and cast the flying bird spammable immediately after heavy attack (make sure you have bird of prey skill or slimecraw set slotted for minor berserk buff). This should kill the guard almost instantly. But make sure to switch to mag dps gear before performing this, and maybe drink a spell power potion (or use skills to gain spell dmg and crit buffs)

UntilValhalla13

As mentioned, the timer won't start until you kill the main target. Also, a lot of sacrament/heist levels have hidden passages that aren't shown on the map to speed things up. I remember clicking on a random torch and it opening up a side passage.

Everstorm

Key is a way to run at normal speed while sneaking. Either through the craftable Night Silence set, the dropped Shadow Dancer's Rainment set or the vampire passive.

But for the bigger picture. I got the impression that you're pretty new. But for this activity the same rules apply as any other activity in the game: practice, better gear, a fleshed out ability tree and more CP makes stuff easier.
All sacraments (and heists) have a random component to them on where the targets spawn.
And some maps are considerably harder than other. Heist in Glittering Grotto took me several tries before I got it flawless. And that was with a vampire stamblade.

RaddlemanNumber7

Kill 'em. Kill 'em fast.

Elwendryll

Well... I play a khajiit, so stealth buff, but not a NB, and I don't use invisibility potions or any stealth set. It's all about knowing the maps very well, including the patterns. You can line of sight some lantern guards, if you're in the circle but behind an obstacle you're fine. There are a few places where it can be handy. You can also cheat by being detected a few times.

A lot of things help, but carefully planning your escape route is probably the most important one.

Spartabunny08

There are hidden paths in between the main path that connect you around all the problems. Believe the devs made these as the answer you're seeking. YouTube it.

Lord-Otto

Git gud. Channel your inner ninja.
(ÒwÓ)/
In all seriousness, sacraments are actually quite fair. Unlike heists, which were balanced for having Cloak. Just learn the NPC patterns, look for alternate routes and hideouts, and plan your escape before dealing with the targets.
Also, don't kill any non-target NPCs, that's not what a Silent Assassin would do. (^_-)

Gythral

1 Deadbody ...
2 Deadbody ...
3 Deadbody ...
4 Deadbody ...
no more bonus
5 Deadbody more...

AlnilamE

There are ways. You need to learn the paths. Some of the maps have hidden shortcuts you can take to get out faster. Others have objects you can hide behind even if you don't get a hiding basket at a crucial point.

As others have said, always kill the secondary target first, since killing the main target is what triggers the timer.

After I did each map a couple of times, I never ran out of time getting out again, because you learn the paths of the guards. I never killed a guard because I'm not confident I won't be detected.

I also use 5x Night Mother's Gaze, 3x Night Terror and 4x Darloc Brae for thieving/murdering.

Bucky_13

LashanW wrote: »

For sacrements and heists I use the following gear with jewelry swift trait,
5x Night's Silence (craftable)
3x Night Terror

You will be very fast even when sneaking with very little stamina drain (with medium armor passives and CP).

This is a good setup for non NBs. Add Wild Hunt for all classes. For nightblades, Night's Silence + Darloc Brae both 5 pieces means permacloak and full movement speed while crouching which makes DB and TG dailies incredibly easy. Swift jewelry is still recommended.

As for lantern guards, I just avoid them on NB since I have enough time anyway.

Luckylancer

Thief and assassin quests are designed to be done with in time limit. So there is nothing unbalanced about them.

They cant see hidding spots lile baskets. Use them, or use a diffrent route.

Everstorm

Another tip: if things go south you can also simply cancel the quest and try again, no need to wait till the next day. Practice makes perfect.

Vevvev

You can also go vampire for the stage 4 passive to become invisible after 3 seconds of sprinting and have sprint cost 50% less. Makes getting around very easy in Sacraments and Heists so you're only having to keep clear of the lantern guards and can just run by everything else without care.

Donny_Vito

sharquez wrote: »

you can kill lantern guards with no penalty if you do it fast enough iirc

Yes. You need a decent burst though. I'd say two LA/skill attacks max is all you have.

Saucy_Jack

Heck, wear a Ring of the Wild Hunt for more speed.