Ball groups need heavy direct nerfs

TequilaFire

pieratsos wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

Again. Nerf purge Zos. Braindead mechanic. No defense whatsover for it.

Translation:

"I don't like it when ball groups coordinate individual player-character resources for the group as a whole ... [snip]

[snip] No one is arguing about getting rid of groups or team play or wanting to 1v15 a ball group and win.

The argument is about certain mechanics that are horribly designed and they are broken when they are used in specific ways. An entire group having 35k hp, being immune to debuffs and having infinite healing because u can stack a million hots and have a couple of guys spam purge while also doing hundreds of thousands of dmg by just using synergies is simply broken. Yes it's teamwork and coordination but the actual effect is just broken and thats where the term mindless comes from. Because simply walking around spamming auto hots for infinite healing is just mindless.

[snip]

Could of sworn thread title was Ball groups need a direct heavy nerf.
[snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting]

ZOS_ConnorG

Greetings all,

After review we have had to remove or edit multiple posts for rule violations, mostly Baiting. Ensure that when engaging in a discussion that you keep said discussion civil, constructive and within the rules. If you disagree with another users post engage them respectfully to have a constructive discussion. If you believe a post is in violation of the Community Rules you can report it for the Moderators to review.

You are welcome to review the Community Rules here.

jecks33

"Make rapid regen self heal only"

this magsorc says YESSSSSSSSSSS

technohic

Fawn4287 wrote: »

danthemann5 wrote: »

Did they take the ability to go somewhere else and not get farmed out of the game?

They only do what they do because idiots reward their behavior. Stop feeding them and go where they aren't. Problem solved.

Unfortunately cyrodil rewards resource capture and hold, nothing else. This means ballgroups gating you in spawn as they keep your 2 home keeps to allow someone to push emp leaves little in the way of counter play or many alternatives.

They like to come to DC. As soon as one gets bored; another shows up. I know it feels like we need to defend our scrolls and our tri-keeps above all else but DC isn't going to win the campaign, especially by being tied up for hours with a ball group. So just go around and attack their back keeps, or whatever. Let them run around with the scrolls as bait for more farming, just don't feed them. Take your ball and go home.

I know it won't happen as people will lemming into them for hours at Ash/Nickel/Roe let alone trie keeps.

pieratsos

TequilaFire wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

Again. Nerf purge Zos. Braindead mechanic. No defense whatsover for it.

Translation:

"I don't like it when ball groups coordinate individual player-character resources for the group as a whole ... [snip]

[snip] No one is arguing about getting rid of groups or team play or wanting to 1v15 a ball group and win.

The argument is about certain mechanics that are horribly designed and they are broken when they are used in specific ways. An entire group having 35k hp, being immune to debuffs and having infinite healing because u can stack a million hots and have a couple of guys spam purge while also doing hundreds of thousands of dmg by just using synergies is simply broken. Yes it's teamwork and coordination but the actual effect is just broken and thats where the term mindless comes from. Because simply walking around spamming auto hots for infinite healing is just mindless.

[snip]

Could of sworn thread title was Ball groups need a direct heavy nerf.
[snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting]

Overhauling those horribly designed mechanics is actually a direct nerf. But thanks for not arguing that they are horribly designed. That was actually my point.

Major_Lag

DTAmoral wrote: »

@Major_Lag Its not brainless crossheal stacking and purge spamming.

It is - see below:

DTAmoral wrote: »

It might look that way, but if you ever joined a good ball group you would hear the coms, and understand what is happening.

For some time (about 2-3 months in total) I did run with one of the stronger ballgroups on PC-EU. This was around the turn of 2019/2020.
Although I was technically doing very well, eventually I left the group (on good terms) due to various reasons.

One of those reasons was ESO's ever deteriorating performance and frequent disconnects in large fights, as well as being literally permanently stuck in "combat" - those issues were starting to very negatively affect both my own playing experience as well as the rest of the group's, due to me either crashing unexpectedly or due being unable to mount up at any time ever.

The other reason was that the resulting gameplay was ultimately unchallenging and tediously repetitive to boot, boliing down to only really needing to manage your magicka/stamina and movement.
Although I can't rightly say that it was something that would require "0 skill", it was a far cry from the kind of skill required to successfully play solo or in small groups.

In particular, one aspect of skill that was missing entirely was the need to ever manage your own healthbar.
Yeah, I understand that in coordinated groups it's the healer's task to provide a substantial bulk of the healing, but the amount of sheer overhealing going on was outright ludicrous to say the least.

When I read ZOS patch notes and their remark about "volatile healthbars" in relation to the healing nerf, ballgroup (over)healing was what immediately came to mind - my HP was constantly oscillating between 100% and quite low values, swinging from one extreme to the other literally every other second. It does not get any more volatile than that.

The other issue was that (for non-purgers) there was never a need to worry about being affected with any purgeable DoTs or debuffs - they would invariably get purged away almost immediately after being applied.
Even very strong siege DoTs - like coldfire, firepot or oil DoTs - were completely ineffective, since they would never last long enough to apply more than a single tick of their damage.
The only real dangers we faced were negates (for obvious reasons) and meatbag AoEs, since those are both very brutal and both can't be purged away. And of course the ever present lag, but that's a whole different story altogether.

TL;dr: allowing groups to rely exclusively on dedicated healers and purgers is broken OP, and on top of that it also dumbs the game down and overly empowers relatively skillless gameplay.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

I'd love to see a test week where the dev's implemented everything in this thread just to see the tears when pugs couldn't take a single keep due to siege dmg and still get destroyed by groups lol.

Also it's frustrating to see people really think that any random zergs are ball groups these days. Just because they try and use the same mechanics doesn't stop them from being a zerg.

maxjapank wrote: »

ItsJustHashtag wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

The only thing that needs nerfed is Cleanse. An aoe purge that heals a percentage of health. It is the main culprit that allows all ballgroups to run around untouched. They should somehow get rid of it Healing.

Radiating stacking is the main culprit.

No. It’s 100% Cleanse. That’s why every ball group has at least 2 dedicated Cleanse purgers.

We don't btw.

In the group I was in, at the time when I joined there was at first a rather "traditional" division into fairly strict roles - mostly such as DPS, healer, purge/support.
But eventuallly, it became increasingly obvious that such a rigid division of responsibilities was not working too well for us in practice - especially with the purgers, as the loss of even a single purger was devastating and frequently led to the entire group wiping.

The answer to that was to diversify somewhat and have the healers and 1 or 2 DPS also slot purge, so that they could take up the slack when one of the dedicated purgers fell in battle or was lost to lag.
While technically a suboptimal move, that ended up being a significant improvement overall.

danthemann5

Looks like the OP is going to get his wish, unintended consequences and all:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/539136/update-on-cyrodiil-performance-upcoming-aoe-tests/p1

Larcomar

Works for me. Not quite sure why they keep banging on about templars though. They shd really recode jabs to be dd if this goes through.

danthemann5

Larcomar wrote: »

Works for me. Not quite sure why they keep banging on about templars though. They shd really recode jabs to be dd if this goes through.

I think that's the crux of the issue. The proposed changes, or "tests", are, at least in some cases, driving a nail with a sledgehammer. It's more than jabs that are at issue. With a 3 second cooldown between ANY AOA ability, we run into a number of other issues, exempli gratia:

- No more spin to win (no complaint there)
- No using cleve as as spammable (yes it's an awful spammable, but play how you want, remember?)
- Can't noxious breath into a leap if you need to, or use noxious breath as a spammable.
- Can't go goliath and spam scythe
- If your AOE misses and you need to recast, tough luck Chuck.

The list could go on, but that's the general idea.

A more elegant approach would be to determine the abilities which are actually causing the problem and putting cooldowns on those, leaving abilities which are not a problem untouched. But I think with ZOS, that's far too much to ask. Scorched earth is the order of the day.

Fawn4287

danthemann5 wrote: »

Looks like the OP is going to get his wish, unintended consequences and all:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/539136/update-on-cyrodiil-performance-upcoming-aoe-tests/p1

I didn’t once say I had an issue with AOE damage, that should be the one benefit to being in a group, My issue is entirely with group healing and group cleansing, however it appears ball groups have pushed performance to such a point to warrant this, thank all the people who “ballgroup” the zerglings who spam AOEs and rapid regen. The real downside is all these groups were going to be spamming light attacks to proc their proc sets this patch anyway, generating probably the same if not worse lag without a global cooldown on the proc sets, not looking forward to a death feed full of caluurions.

idk

1. Purge will remain a group skill as it is the only cleans in the game available to most classes.
2. rStaff is a group healing skill line so rapid regen should remain as it is.
3. I see no rhyme or reason for moving borrowed time to AvA lines.
4. Kill the person trying to res. Heck, the idea would actually increase lag in Cyrodiil as that would be one more thing the severs need to deal with.
5. Zos just reduced healing.
6. Capping group size to 12 is pointless. People would form two 12 man groups. Back when pop caps were larger some groups ran more than 3 24-man groups together. Besides, it would change nothing.

Ahk1lleez

Joinovikova wrote: »

Fawn4287 wrote: »

Ballgroups with the healing changes are even stronger and they are basically immune to debuffs given all run and spam purge. So these would heavily impede their ability to roll everyone while spamming 2 skills. All of these changes should be in PvP only

-Make purge self cleanse only
-Make rapid regen self heal only
-Move borrowed time to alliance war skills
-Put a cooldown on res once interupted
-Reduce healing to others by 20%-30% or alternatively incorporate penetration in to healing
-Cap max group size at 12

Standardising CC animations and CC breaks is also desperately needed, fear and AOE CCs are far more difficult to break and the inability to consistently CC break them is a huge advantage to 12+ man groups spamming AOEs.

what is need only to make Inevitable Detonation unclearable make less dmg but scale by 100% per hit players with no limit

Leave the detonation upon effect cleanse as is and increase the damage multiplier as you suggested. It's sad enough that ball groups can stack on a ram with their heals, and even when constantly hitting them with innevitable det with someone spamming a purge they can heal through it. This is especially true since it's meant to combat this exact type of behavior.

It needs to be made so that you might survive the first detonation, but you will not survive a second if you're within range of many allies. Speaking of range, the radius of inevitable det should be doubled or even tripled. This is the type of solution needed to keep ball groups in check and even dissuade them from running as they have been, which in turn may help with the AOE spam calculations. A dead ball group is a group that isn't spamming anything.

Master_Kas

So a sorc wont be able to cast streak a few times to get away? A dk wont be able to use talons/breath into leap?

The issue is purge:

Snared? Purge
Rooted? Purge
Stunned? Purge
Dots? Purge
Debuffs? Purge

Just make alliance war purge a self purge only and increase the cost. Balls would then become easier to kill. Instead of ruining the game for everyone.

Yeah come at me ballers.

Azurya

Master_Kas wrote: »

So a sorc wont be able to cast streak a few times to get away? A dk wont be able to use talons/breath into leap?

The issue is purge:

Snared? Purge
Rooted? Purge
Stunned? Purge
Dots? Purge
Debuffs? Purge

Just make alliance war purge a self purge only and increase the cost. Balls would then become easier to kill. Instead of ruining the game for everyone.

Yeah come at me ballers.

simple solutions for a complecated world!

Master_Kas

Azurya wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

So a sorc wont be able to cast streak a few times to get away? A dk wont be able to use talons/breath into leap?

The issue is purge:

Snared? Purge
Rooted? Purge
Stunned? Purge
Dots? Purge
Debuffs? Purge

Just make alliance war purge a self purge only and increase the cost. Balls would then become easier to kill. Instead of ruining the game for everyone.

Yeah come at me ballers.

simple solutions for a complecated world!

We've heard you like cooldowns, so we added some cooldowns!

TequilaFire

Hope you all enjoy turn based play. lol

https://youtu.be/wztfux0IDmg

nublife01

TequilaFire wrote: »

Fawn4287 wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

You solo guys keep asking for nerfs that gimp yourselves more than what you perceive as a ball group.
You will never stop players that take the time to learn how to play and synergize.

Its not actually learning to play and synergise, its literally everyone stacking aoes, spamming purge then ulti dumping in obvious situations. The problem is its not just 18 or 24 peoples shared damage, its their shared healing, and buffs that are broken. I have played in a ball group and easily rolled other ball groups 2-3 times the size, not due to our ball group being good, you just run 3 negates and counter ulti dump. Most (not all) ballgroups are a collection of garbage zerglings that have 30k health and rely on the fact that healing is so easy when you mindlessly stack 20 smart auto HOTs and healers simply hold block the moment things don’t look good. Thank god for the harmony nerf, at least more than 2 people will have to run some actually hard hitting abilities after that.

You really should try joining a ball group and finding out how wrong you are.
Most good ones are 12 players or less.
What happens is other players follow the ball groups around leeching off their ap so it looks like a zerg.
[Snip]

[Edited for baiting]

lol imagine defending ball groups

technohic

TequilaFire wrote: »

Fawn4287 wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

You solo guys keep asking for nerfs that gimp yourselves more than what you perceive as a ball group.
You will never stop players that take the time to learn how to play and synergize.

Its not actually learning to play and synergise, its literally everyone stacking aoes, spamming purge then ulti dumping in obvious situations. The problem is its not just 18 or 24 peoples shared damage, its their shared healing, and buffs that are broken. I have played in a ball group and easily rolled other ball groups 2-3 times the size, not due to our ball group being good, you just run 3 negates and counter ulti dump. Most (not all) ballgroups are a collection of garbage zerglings that have 30k health and rely on the fact that healing is so easy when you mindlessly stack 20 smart auto HOTs and healers simply hold block the moment things don’t look good. Thank god for the harmony nerf, at least more than 2 people will have to run some actually hard hitting abilities after that.

You really should try joining a ball group and finding out how wrong you are.
Most good ones are 12 players or less.
What happens is other players follow the ball groups around leeching off their ap so it looks like a zerg.
[Snip]

[Edited for baiting]

Most good ones are 12 or less? I only ever see Drac run 12. The others seem to run more than that but then; Im not counting all the time.

I think I brought up before that one starting small and looks reputable; but the tactic of staying tight, keeping purges up, spamming AOE while you root and snare and stun was escalating to larger groups and its no longer about taking on bigger numbers, but just braindead PUG crushing and was getting bad for the game. More just kept popping up since.

TequilaFire

12 is the sweet spot, but sometimes you just can't say no to a guildie looking for group so you end up with more.
Personally I like the tactics available when using 2 to 3 small groups working together coordinated under one crown.
I think those of us that use what is given by the game smartly will adjust just fine.
Further "Ball" groups help to keep the faction stacking zergs under control as that is what "Ball" groups like to farm.

Goregrinder

They just need to restrict healing AoE's to those in your group, and then restrict the group size so 30 people can't bounce rapid regen off each other all day.

VaranisArano

Goregrinder wrote: »

They just need to restrict healing AoE's to those in your group, and then restrict the group size so 30 people can't bounce rapid regen off each other all day.

I like to run around ungrouped on my healer so I can go when and where I want, but still play support for my faction mates.

Group-only healing wrecks that.

Goregrinder

VaranisArano wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

They just need to restrict healing AoE's to those in your group, and then restrict the group size so 30 people can't bounce rapid regen off each other all day.

I like to run around ungrouped on my healer so I can go when and where I want, but still play support for my faction mates.

Group-only healing wrecks that.

That's the point. That's why ball grouping is so OP, you don't even have to be grouped to benefit from other players. You should be able to cast direct heals on any one you want, grouped or not. But if you choose to not play with other people on an online game, you shouldn't be rewarded for doing it. You should have to choose to either run a solo build that can't bounce aoe heals off everyone they see, or join a group and participate in group content. You shouldn't be able to eat your cake and have it too, which is how cyrodiil is run now.

Sacrifices need to be made somewhere, and your chosen playstyle is a viable candidate for sacrifice in the name of the greater good of cyrodiil.

TequilaFire

Goregrinder wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

They just need to restrict healing AoE's to those in your group, and then restrict the group size so 30 people can't bounce rapid regen off each other all day.

I like to run around ungrouped on my healer so I can go when and where I want, but still play support for my faction mates.

Group-only healing wrecks that.

That's the point. That's why ball grouping is so OP, you don't even have to be grouped to benefit from other players. You should be able to cast direct heals on any one you want, grouped or not. But if you choose to not play with other people on an online game, you shouldn't be rewarded for doing it. You should have to choose to either run a solo build that can't bounce aoe heals off everyone they see, or join a group and participate in group content. You shouldn't be able to eat your cake and have it too, which is how cyrodiil is run now.

Sacrifices need to be made somewhere, and your chosen playstyle is a viable candidate for sacrifice in the name of the greater good of cyrodiil.

Wow, that is a head scratcher.

Goregrinder

TequilaFire wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

They just need to restrict healing AoE's to those in your group, and then restrict the group size so 30 people can't bounce rapid regen off each other all day.

I like to run around ungrouped on my healer so I can go when and where I want, but still play support for my faction mates.

Group-only healing wrecks that.

That's the point. That's why ball grouping is so OP, you don't even have to be grouped to benefit from other players. You should be able to cast direct heals on any one you want, grouped or not. But if you choose to not play with other people on an online game, you shouldn't be rewarded for doing it. You should have to choose to either run a solo build that can't bounce aoe heals off everyone they see, or join a group and participate in group content. You shouldn't be able to eat your cake and have it too, which is how cyrodiil is run now.

Sacrifices need to be made somewhere, and your chosen playstyle is a viable candidate for sacrifice in the name of the greater good of cyrodiil.

Wow, that is a head scratcher.

Like that play on words? But yeah a ball group by definition should be those actually in a "group".

VaranisArano

Goregrinder wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

They just need to restrict healing AoE's to those in your group, and then restrict the group size so 30 people can't bounce rapid regen off each other all day.

I like to run around ungrouped on my healer so I can go when and where I want, but still play support for my faction mates.

Group-only healing wrecks that.

That's the point. That's why ball grouping is so OP, you don't even have to be grouped to benefit from other players. You should be able to cast direct heals on any one you want, grouped or not. But if you choose to not play with other people on an online game, you shouldn't be rewarded for doing it. You should have to choose to either run a solo build that can't bounce aoe heals off everyone they see, or join a group and participate in group content. You shouldn't be able to eat your cake and have it too, which is how cyrodiil is run now.

Sacrifices need to be made somewhere, and your chosen playstyle is a viable candidate for sacrifice in the name of the greater good of cyrodiil.

LOL if you think the reason why ball groups are OP is because they are getting tons of extra healing from random ungrouped players as opposed to being able to run multiple dedicated healers in their own group. (ZOS disagrees with you on that front, calling out groups for being able to build for infinite healing.)

You'd be removing the ability of healers to run ungrouped in Cyrodiil in order to implement a change that any decent ball groups would counter by adding an extra healer, if even that.

This seems to be more about enforcing a vision that support roles shouldn't play ungrouped.

Which is weird. Like, if I go to defend Drakelowe on my own and a few other people show up, I can't heal them unless we quickly group up? Yeah, that's a good idea...

Crash427

Goregrinder wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

They just need to restrict healing AoE's to those in your group, and then restrict the group size so 30 people can't bounce rapid regen off each other all day.

I like to run around ungrouped on my healer so I can go when and where I want, but still play support for my faction mates.

Group-only healing wrecks that.

That's the point. That's why ball grouping is so OP, you don't even have to be grouped to benefit from other players. You should be able to cast direct heals on any one you want, grouped or not. But if you choose to not play with other people on an online game, you shouldn't be rewarded for doing it. You should have to choose to either run a solo build that can't bounce aoe heals off everyone they see, or join a group and participate in group content. You shouldn't be able to eat your cake and have it too, which is how cyrodiil is run now.

Sacrifices need to be made somewhere, and your chosen playstyle is a viable candidate for sacrifice in the name of the greater good of cyrodiil.

Heals to group only is a buff to ballgroups and a nerf to everyone else. You know how many times some random pug has proc'd one of our earthgores and put it on cooldown?

Not just that but having pugs around is dangerous when you're in a ballgroup. The cp200 guy who thinks he can hide safely in the middle of you is a walking time bomb waiting to VD everyone, and he's probably going to hit synergies wasting our harmony bombs.

Goregrinder

VaranisArano wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

They just need to restrict healing AoE's to those in your group, and then restrict the group size so 30 people can't bounce rapid regen off each other all day.

I like to run around ungrouped on my healer so I can go when and where I want, but still play support for my faction mates.

Group-only healing wrecks that.

That's the point. That's why ball grouping is so OP, you don't even have to be grouped to benefit from other players. You should be able to cast direct heals on any one you want, grouped or not. But if you choose to not play with other people on an online game, you shouldn't be rewarded for doing it. You should have to choose to either run a solo build that can't bounce aoe heals off everyone they see, or join a group and participate in group content. You shouldn't be able to eat your cake and have it too, which is how cyrodiil is run now.

Sacrifices need to be made somewhere, and your chosen playstyle is a viable candidate for sacrifice in the name of the greater good of cyrodiil.

LOL if you think the reason why ball groups are OP is because they are getting tons of extra healing from random ungrouped players as opposed to being able to run multiple dedicated healers in their own group. (ZOS disagrees with you on that front, calling out groups for being able to build for infinite healing.)

You'd be removing the ability of healers to run ungrouped in Cyrodiil in order to implement a change that any decent ball groups would counter by adding an extra healer, if even that.

This seems to be more about enforcing a vision that support roles shouldn't play ungrouped.

Which is weird. Like, if I go to defend Drakelowe on my own and a few other people show up, I can't heal them unless we quickly group up? Yeah, that's a good idea...

Yeah...why should I be able to get healed by 20 people not in my group? That's free healing that shouldn't be there. Part of PVP is that people still need to die. If I can only get healed by my group, and my group is limited to only 8-12 people, that's a lot less healing that can carry me. Would sure make me have to think twice about how I position myself during sieges and faction stacks wouldn't it? I couldn't willy nilly run in like leeroy jenkins and just spam aoes on everyone, and get healed by 20 different aoe heals huh?

idk

nublife01 wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Fawn4287 wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

You solo guys keep asking for nerfs that gimp yourselves more than what you perceive as a ball group.
You will never stop players that take the time to learn how to play and synergize.

Its not actually learning to play and synergise, its literally everyone stacking aoes, spamming purge then ulti dumping in obvious situations. The problem is its not just 18 or 24 peoples shared damage, its their shared healing, and buffs that are broken. I have played in a ball group and easily rolled other ball groups 2-3 times the size, not due to our ball group being good, you just run 3 negates and counter ulti dump. Most (not all) ballgroups are a collection of garbage zerglings that have 30k health and rely on the fact that healing is so easy when you mindlessly stack 20 smart auto HOTs and healers simply hold block the moment things don’t look good. Thank god for the harmony nerf, at least more than 2 people will have to run some actually hard hitting abilities after that.

You really should try joining a ball group and finding out how wrong you are.
Most good ones are 12 players or less.
What happens is other players follow the ball groups around leeching off their ap so it looks like a zerg.
[Snip]

[Edited for baiting]

lol imagine defending ball groups

Seems more like they are actually defending medium to small groups. Heck, Cyrodiil used to have groups that were 70+ back when pop caps were significantly higher than they are now and ESO had the PvP interest to fill those larger campaigns every day. My 6 man PvP guild used to bait zergs to come to keeps or resources and farm them for PvP. It is still easy to do that today with a group that pays attention to the leader and of course a good leader. I find it odd getting worked up about groups smaller than a dozen.

Moonsorrow

Master_Kas wrote: »

So a sorc wont be able to cast streak a few times to get away? A dk wont be able to use talons/breath into leap?

The issue is purge:

Snared? Purge
Rooted? Purge
Stunned? Purge
Dots? Purge
Debuffs? Purge

Just make alliance war purge a self purge only and increase the cost. Balls would then become easier to kill. Instead of ruining the game for everyone.

Yeah come at me ballers.

It sounds like a simple solution, but.. good ballers would adapt by making groups of certain 2-3 classes with class purges on sort of rotation for each (like a Necro casting Hexproof every few seconds to take out a layer of stuff away, imagine 10-20+ Necros, with several Earthgores, and certain 5p sets on several people in the group so the individual purge proc it does per target is cleansing stuff automatically by many on cooldown).. these sets increased number would sacrifice some of their damage though, but they could gain it back by growing their numbers up too.

I know many are probably getting ready for this conclusion and happening eventually, from observations. I see many known groups having Snow Treaders on, cannot mistake that effect when they chase me at keep upstairs haha.

So they do not have to worry about Roots/snares. Siege/AoE layers will hurt though without "Purge bots".

But as said, groups would adapt with more Earthgores and more Purge set amounts and favoring classes that can self-purge as efficiently as possible as part of the "train rotation" so everyone would become their own Purge bots every few seconds on top of purge set procs from others.

Also Alliance war purge still has some use on PVE on some trials and so on, not all classes got one so, favoritism would spread to some pve raids too on classes. Okay well, it always has favouritism on current meta classes anyways so kinda moot point that i know.

Oh and hi btw, i miss playing on EP side - most fun chat there due to you and few others. Banana and smurf chat so different world.. on Grey Host. Yeah, Zone Chat true PVP endgame these days. And Outfits.

Gotta say that i dislike hard cooldowns like 3 seconds thingies now as tests will happen.. muh combos and fluid combat would end. So not saying those are the solution also. Would have to change whole combat and most classes/skills completely.

And just after we done like 2 years of the current Audit. Plz no more of the same type of big changes for a year or 2.

There was one moment when there was not so laggy (also during MYM when not many coordinated ballers on same campaigns at same time), when sieges did hit the bugged hard damage, groups melted and people had to spread out and also siege other parts of keep than MG, going through sieges and Oils was impossibru. So Cyro felt again more like intended, people had to attack many sides and wipes happened instantly making big fights lag less when groups went elsewhere after wipes.

But i am a weird mostly solo & small-scale player in that i LIKE having guild groups and old traditional groups at Cyro, it makes it feel like a war and large scale PVP is supposed to happen and is very fun for those who are in those guilds/groups. BGS becoming Solo only queue was fun for true solos, but many lost their most fun thing in this game, playing pvp together with a friend in a fast action bgs.

So a complicated thing with no easy solution, some people are bound to lose fun they used to have, i see no happy end on this for everyone, sadly.

I do wish the lag was gone, but changing the game to slow cooldown game to get it? Please no. I SO hope there is another solution than that. I am here still because of the fast combat after years. There are other games with cooldowns and they are boring and slow, hope this does not become one of them.

This wall of text was not really directed at you Kas, just general concerns and ramblings to anyone who bothers to read more than couple first words at 4am my time. I should go back to Cyrodiil now.

idk

Moonsorrow wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

So a sorc wont be able to cast streak a few times to get away? A dk wont be able to use talons/breath into leap?

The issue is purge:

Snared? Purge
Rooted? Purge
Stunned? Purge
Dots? Purge
Debuffs? Purge

Just make alliance war purge a self purge only and increase the cost. Balls would then become easier to kill. Instead of ruining the game for everyone.

Yeah come at me ballers.

It sounds like a simple solution, but.. good ballers would adapt by making groups of certain 2-3 classes with class purges on sort of rotation

for each (like a Necro casting Hexproof every few seconds to take out a layer of stuff away, imagine 10-20+ Necros, with several Earthgores, and certain 5p sets on several people in the group so the individual purge proc it does per target is cleansing stuff automatically by many on cooldown).. these sets increased number would sacrifice some of their damage though, but they could gain it back by growing their numbers up too.

I know many are probably getting ready for this conclusion and happening eventually, from observations. I see many known groups having Snow Treaders on, cannot mistake that effect when they chase me at keep upstairs haha.

So they do not have to worry about Roots/snares. Siege/AoE layers will hurt though without "Purge bots".

But as said, groups would adapt with more Earthgores and more Purge set amounts and favoring classes that can self-purge as efficiently as possible as part of the "train rotation" so everyone would become their own Purge bots every few seconds on top of purge set procs from others.

Also Alliance war purge still has some use on PVE on some trials and so on, not all classes got one so, favoritism would spread to some pve raids too on classes. Okay well, it always has favouritism on current meta classes anyways so kinda moot point that i know.

Oh and hi btw, i miss playing on EP side - most fun chat there due to you and few others. Banana and smurf chat so different world.. on Grey Host. Yeah, Zone Chat true PVP endgame these days. And Outfits.

Gotta say that i dislike hard cooldowns like 3 seconds thingies now as tests will happen.. muh combos and fluid combat would end. So not saying those are the solution also. Would have to change whole combat and most classes/skills completely.

And just after we done like 2 years of the current Audit. Plz no more of the same type of big changes for a year or 2.

There was one moment when there was not so laggy (also during MYM when not many coordinated ballers on same campaigns at same time), when sieges did hit the bugged hard damage, groups melted and people had to spread out and also siege other parts of keep than MG, going through sieges and Oils was impossibru. So Cyro felt again more like intended, people had to attack many sides and wipes happened instantly making big fights lag less when groups went elsewhere after wipes.

But i am a weird mostly solo & small-scale player in that i LIKE having guild groups and old traditional groups at Cyro, it makes it feel like a war and large scale PVP is supposed to happen and is very fun for those who are in those guilds/groups. BGS becoming Solo only queue was fun for true solos, but many lost their most fun thing in this game, playing pvp together with a friend in a fast action bgs.

So a complicated thing with no easy solution, some people are bound to lose fun they used to have, i see no happy end on this for everyone, sadly.

I do wish the lag was gone, but changing the game to slow cooldown game to get it? Please no. I SO hope there is another solution than that. I am here still because of the fast combat after years. There are other games with cooldowns and they are boring and slow, hope this does not become one of them.

This wall of text was not really directed at you Kas, just general concerns and ramblings to anyone who bothers to read more than couple first words at 4am my time. I should go back to Cyrodiil now.

Actually, a good leader will have players running the specific skills they want in the group and those that run in the group will be happy to comply. That same leader will sometimes call out for specific skills. It is really beautiful to watch in action when a group of 5-6 takes out a zerg several times their size.