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There are so many interesting changes this patch — it's sad they'll all be overshadowed by proc sets

Langeston
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The combat has come up with some truly interesting and well thought out ideas this patch — in a vacuum, many of them have the potential to be game-changing. More weapon & armor traits will be viable in PVP than ever before, the same goes for Mundus stones. The retooling of the Armor of the Trainee gives you much needed flexibility when integrating a mythic item, arena weapon, and/or 3 piece set into your build. Old sets like War Maiden and Innate Axiom have been given a new lease on life, while new sets like Elemental Catalyst make PVP crit builds competitive. The list goes on.

This patch should be a theorycrafter's wet dream, but it won't be.

I've spent a lot of time on the PTS, and these changes should open up so many new possibilities, allowing build diversity that I haven't seen since I started playing ESO. That isn't likely to happen though, because this patch will also introduce "bull in a china shop" sets like Unleashed Terror that you'd be a fool not to use. Why spend time theorycrafting builds that require skill to use when you can just slap on a couple of proc sets and delete your opponent's health bar at the press of a button? Especially when everyone you go up against will be using them. It's a fools errand.

I really hope ZOS tones down these proc sets, but if history is any guide that won't happen until the next big patch. Meanwhile, the only build diversity you'll see is what combination of 25k+ proc sets your opponent is using. That being the case, I'm afraid this patch will just be one step forward, two steps back.
Edited by Langeston on July 19, 2020 10:30PM
  • Taleof2Cities
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    There are already enough PTS threads on proc sets, @Langeston ... we don't need another one.
  • BohnT2
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    There are already enough PTS threads on proc sets, @Langeston ... we don't need another one.

    Yes we need another one because the issue is so bad.
  • Ishtharo
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    There are already enough PTS threads on proc sets, @Langeston ... we don't need another one.

    We need as many as it takes for ZOS to listen, which judging by experience, means a WHOLE lot
    Tsarra Venus Sylphyra - Stamplar PvP Bosmer Harrier
    VenusFállen - Magden PvP Nord Healer
    VenusFallen - Stamcro PvP Nord Brawler
    VenusFallèn - MagBlade PvP Dark Elf Ganker
    VeñusFallen - StamSorc PvP Bosmer Harrier
  • Elsonso
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    Ishtharo wrote: »
    There are already enough PTS threads on proc sets, @Langeston ... we don't need another one.

    We need as many as it takes for ZOS to listen, which judging by experience, means a WHOLE lot

    I don't think it works that way. If the forums get saturated with duplicates, chances are the only people really reading them will be the forum mods (for ToS) and the players. The dev team will just get a Reader's Digest Condensed version from some forum search because there are too many places to go looking for information.
    ESO Plus: No
    PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
    XBox EU/NA: @ElsonsoJannus
    X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus
  • Langeston
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    There are already enough PTS threads on proc sets, @Langeston ... we don't need another one.
    Speak for yourself.

    In any case, the thread isn't merely about the proc sets — it's about the [in my opinion] great changes we're looking at, and what a pity it would be if they were made pointless by some of their less well thought out ideas.

    Some of the changes I highlighted (and their implications) have probably been completely overlooked by a lot of people simply because of just how glaring the proc sets are, and personally I don't think that's healthy for the game.
    Elsonso wrote: »
    Ishtharo wrote: »
    We need as many as it takes for ZOS to listen, which judging by experience, means a WHOLE lot

    I don't think it works that way. If the forums get saturated with duplicates, chances are the only people really reading them will be the forum mods (for ToS) and the players. The dev team will just get a Reader's Digest Condensed version from some forum search because there are too many places to go looking for information.
    I'd be happy if the devs simply read the thread title, to be honest. I think it's important for them to think long and hard about whether or not they want all of their good ideas to be completely obliterated by hamfisted sets that take all the skill out of the game.
    Edited by Langeston on July 19, 2020 11:37PM
  • Elsonso
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    Langeston wrote: »
    Elsonso wrote: »
    Ishtharo wrote: »
    We need as many as it takes for ZOS to listen, which judging by experience, means a WHOLE lot

    I don't think it works that way. If the forums get saturated with duplicates, chances are the only people really reading them will be the forum mods (for ToS) and the players. The dev team will just get a Reader's Digest Condensed version from some forum search because there are too many places to go looking for information.
    I'd be happy if the devs simply read the thread title, to be honest. I think it's important for them to think long and hard about whether or not they want all of their good ideas to be completely obliterated by hamfisted sets that take all the skill out of the game.

    What you are describing is not so much "listening" as "agreeing" and that is going to take more than just people piling on some idea posted in the forum. Multiple threads won't work for that. Since they did all that work on the sets, they obviously do not agree if you are suggesting that they back off to any significant degree. You are going to have to compile a detailed line of reasoning to convince someone who has already decided otherwise.
    ESO Plus: No
    PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
    XBox EU/NA: @ElsonsoJannus
    X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus
  • likecats
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    Elsonso wrote: »
    Langeston wrote: »
    Elsonso wrote: »
    Ishtharo wrote: »
    We need as many as it takes for ZOS to listen, which judging by experience, means a WHOLE lot

    I don't think it works that way. If the forums get saturated with duplicates, chances are the only people really reading them will be the forum mods (for ToS) and the players. The dev team will just get a Reader's Digest Condensed version from some forum search because there are too many places to go looking for information.
    I'd be happy if the devs simply read the thread title, to be honest. I think it's important for them to think long and hard about whether or not they want all of their good ideas to be completely obliterated by hamfisted sets that take all the skill out of the game.

    What you are describing is not so much "listening" as "agreeing" and that is going to take more than just people piling on some idea posted in the forum. Multiple threads won't work for that. Since they did all that work on the sets, they obviously do not agree if you are suggesting that they back off to any significant degree. You are going to have to compile a detailed line of reasoning to convince someone who has already decided otherwise.

    If this was 2016, you'd have a point. Since then if ZOS has been paying any attention to PVP, they'd know the harm proc sets can have.

    ZOS has decided otherwise because they manage an MMO, its sort of to be expected that they routinely introduce something OP, and then nerf it some months down the line.
  • Lughlongarm
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    Can we be more specific?

    We already have very strong proc sets on live. Most of the buffs are focused on unused porc sets which will either change existing sets or will not change much. Not sure the overall power of proc sets changed that much. Based on your PTS experience which is probably limited to 1v1 duels. What set combinations looks problematic to you?

    I'm under the impression that some classes like NB for example, can really benefit from high crit damage builds this patch which will easily over perform any proc set combination(especially in CP environment) .
  • BohnT2
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    Can we be more specific?

    We already have very strong proc sets on live. Most of the buffs are focused on unused porc sets which will either change existing sets or will not change much. Not sure the overall power of proc sets changed that much. Based on your PTS experience which is probably limited to 1v1 duels. What set combinations looks problematic to you?

    I'm under the impression that some classes like NB for example, can really benefit from high crit damage builds this patch which will easily over perform any proc set combination(especially in CP environment) .

    Shameless crosspromotion of my post that goes into more depth https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/537895/proc-meta-and-malacath/p1
  • FirmamentOfStars
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    BohnT2 wrote: »
    Can we be more specific?

    We already have very strong proc sets on live. Most of the buffs are focused on unused porc sets which will either change existing sets or will not change much. Not sure the overall power of proc sets changed that much. Based on your PTS experience which is probably limited to 1v1 duels. What set combinations looks problematic to you?

    I'm under the impression that some classes like NB for example, can really benefit from high crit damage builds this patch which will easily over perform any proc set combination(especially in CP environment) .

    Shameless crosspromotion of my post that goes into more depth https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/537895/proc-meta-and-malacath/p1

    I can do that too:

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/537402/pvp-removal-of-skilled-gameplay/p1
    Edited by FirmamentOfStars on July 20, 2020 11:18AM
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