Warriors Fury nerf seems a bit much?

Nemesis7884

The set is a staple in pvp and a lot of people are using it; nevertheless I never had the impression or heard complaints that it was overpowered?

Do you think such a significant nerf is warranted?

MincVinyl

480 wd after 20+ sec and tanking damage that long, yeah im all set there.

Tbh i still think the old fury was more balanced.....all you had to do is not attack the person while buffing to drop their stacks.

We will never know why zos gutted most of the wd sets. Much like why they gutted s&b and dw back at elsweyr along with old dizzy, and old onslaught. Why dk leap still applies a root/snare that goes through immunity and pulls you out of dodge roll. Or why they made drinks so less efficient. Why they made vampire not have lifesteal as its main kit. Why the random absurd buff to WW. Why adding so many proc sets when everyone knows how silly malacath is. Still cant fathom why the new seventh legion even has a cooldown, just makes it feel clunky when the server lags and you dont know if you will need to armor buff twice.

Who knows anymore?

EDIT: ult cast times, cant forget that one

Nemesis7884

they always say they have a template to balance sets - this is clearly not true otherwise they would constantly buff and nerf sets - if a calculation / template says A is A it remains A in 3 weeks and 3 months and doesnt change every other week

Their constant nerf and buff game - see bloodspawn - clearly shows, they simply look at what is used often and nerf it randomly...

MincVinyl

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

they always say they have a template to balance sets - this is clearly not true otherwise they would constantly buff and nerf sets - if a calculation / template says A is A it remains A in 3 weeks and 3 months and doesnt change every other week

Their constant nerf and buff game - see bloodspawn - clearly shows, they simply look at what is used often and nerf it randomly...

yeah it is kind of a meme when they nerfed bloodspawn and trollking. Just to bring bloodspawn back, but not trollking. The nerf to the defensive monster helms was likely due to us coming out of a long dot/proc meta into a "tank" meta. In reality nobody was really any tankier(except necros getting so much free %prot) It was more of most players just being terrible at actually having to play the game for once without procs and dots. It was short lived though, inbound caluurians malacath.....cant wait for the pinnacle of skilled gameplay.

Nemesis7884

and they are just constantly running circles with patchwork without ever really adressing the issues its so pointless and frustrating...they should really hire more people for the combat team, go into a 6 mo th resess where they rework everything including class identity and champion points..


are other mmos also having these constant massive back and forth changes for example wow? or is it simply that zos never found esos combat direction / vision?

RogueShark

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

are other mmos also having these constant massive back and forth changes for example wow? or is it simply that zos never found esos combat direction / vision?

No. Looking at WoW now, I could go back to my feral druid, who I haven't touched in three years, and use basically the same abilities as before.

... That being said:
Other MMOs are inherently not like ESO. You have to farm new gear every new raid tier or, at least when I played, every new PvP season. All your gear became obsolete each expansion, worse than green overland gear. You had no gear options, your spec got what your spec got with zero variety.

It's a lot easier to keep things balanced and consistant when your player base will only be able to use one set of gear for pvp and one set for pve and gets replaced every piece of new content, rather than allowing your player base to choose between hundreds and hundreds of combinations.

MincVinyl

@Nemesis7884 @RogueShark

See at a certain point players just start to have every set golded out for every piece/ weapon, then it stops mattering what gets buffed/nerfed every 3 months.

RogueShark

More or less.
I'll take buff/nerf cycles over trashing my prior BiS gear every new expansion because green quest rewards are better than my raiding gear suddenly.

Nemesis7884

MincVinyl wrote: »

@Nemesis7884 @RogueShark

See at a certain point players just start to have every set golded out for every piece/ weapon, then it stops mattering what gets buffed/nerfed every 3 months.

how? I have 18 characters and am always completely out of space everywhere

Spizzie

I mentioned this in the feedback thread. Full agreement with the premise of the post. The nerf is honestly outrageous given the proc requirements. You need to take a minimum of 10 seconds of sustained damage to reach full proc (probably more), and when you're at full proc, it will be the same as New Moon (technically -1) and only 20 more damage than Truth. You also have to double bar it because the proc only lasts 5 seconds, and you have to build enough mitigation and sustain into your character to be able to withstand the damage and utilize the proc. Finally, it also has a line of health where Truth, New Moon, Stuhn's, and others have damage stats for their 2-4 set piece bonuses. So even when it's fully proc'd, it will still have less offensive value than other comparable sets, while requiring the most demanding proc conditions for less than 50% max up-time.

I would argue that Fury is one of the original kiss/curse sets. Almost all other sets require you to do damage or cast an ability to trigger the proc. Fury requires that you not only take damage, but that you take sustained damage.

In short, Fury needs to be double barred and it has the most demanding proc conditions for comparable stam DPS sets while also providing the lowest up-time on its max proc and still having lower overall damage stats than other sets.

This change will put Fury below Hunding's Rage in terms of value and efficiency. I am genuinely struggling to understand the nerf.

Nemesis7884

I just dont understand the developers, on one hand they make good changes but then they just nerf sets that get used more often into the ground to make them pointless - but at the same time create other sets that immediately build the new meta to kill of any build diversity...I mean new moon is basically the go to for everyone right now...its weird, boring, inconsistent and just all over the place

This whole affair with zos is becoming frustrating and tiring for me - a game for me has 4 parts

Writing / Story
Visuals / Art Design
Game Mechanics
Performance

And as of right now 3 out of 4 of these have been declining for months now...while the art direction still holds up, even the writing has gone significantly down and turned into a derivative boring copy paste affair

I really hope they can turn it around and implement a progressing vision for the game...but I am just seeing it less and less

nckg84

MincVinyl wrote: »

480 wd after 20+ sec and tanking damage that long, yeah im all set there.

Tbh i still think the old fury was more balanced.....all you had to do is not attack the person while buffing to drop their stacks.

We will never know why zos gutted most of the wd sets. Much like why they gutted s&b and dw back at elsweyr along with old dizzy, and old onslaught. Why dk leap still applies a root/snare that goes through immunity and pulls you out of dodge roll. Or why they made drinks so less efficient. Why they made vampire not have lifesteal as its main kit. Why the random absurd buff to WW. Why adding so many proc sets when everyone knows how silly malacath is. Still cant fathom why the new seventh legion even has a cooldown, just makes it feel clunky when the server lags and you dont know if you will need to armor buff twice.

Who knows anymore?

EDIT: ult cast times, cant forget that one

It's actually pretty simple. Because there just randomly doing stuff with the intention of drawing more casuals in. ESO needs to be a cash cow for zenimax not a prominent good game.

Firstmep

I think looking at the set changes they want to push out the tanky brawler meta, in favor of more damaging setups.

Both procsets and crit-sets and crit related stuff got buffed, while a lot of bruiser sets got nerfed the last 2 patches.

Bloodspawn, fury, potentates etc.

There are still tanky sets out there, but those generally require more of an investment, which is good imho.

I was never a fan of the "Sit on backbar and rotate defensive buffs and heals till ult" type of playstyle, although i know a lot of ppl only know how to smallscale/1vX on 30k resist s/b tanks, too bad i guess.

Nemesis7884

Firstmep wrote: »

I think looking at the set changes they want to push out the tanky brawler meta, in favor of more damaging setups.

Both procsets and crit-sets and crit related stuff got buffed, while a lot of bruiser sets got nerfed the last 2 patches.

Bloodspawn, fury, potentates etc.

There are still tanky sets out there, but those generally require more of an investment, which is good imho.

I was never a fan of the "Sit on backbar and rotate defensive buffs and heals till ult" type of playstyle, although i know a lot of ppl only know how to smallscale/1vX on 30k resist s/b tanks, too bad i guess.

keep talking...

The Juggernaut: Increased the healing of this set to 20000, up from 18060. This set now also grants 20000 Armor for 15 seconds after activating.


see this is the problem with zos, they have no direction at all

Firstmep

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

I think looking at the set changes they want to push out the tanky brawler meta, in favor of more damaging setups.

Both procsets and crit-sets and crit related stuff got buffed, while a lot of bruiser sets got nerfed the last 2 patches.

Bloodspawn, fury, potentates etc.

There are still tanky sets out there, but those generally require more of an investment, which is good imho.

I was never a fan of the "Sit on backbar and rotate defensive buffs and heals till ult" type of playstyle, although i know a lot of ppl only know how to smallscale/1vX on 30k resist s/b tanks, too bad i guess.

keep talking...

The Juggernaut: Increased the healing of this set to 20000, up from 18060. This set now also grants 20000 Armor for 15 seconds after activating.


see this is the problem with zos, they have no direction at all

Yes, but you are sacrafacing an entire 5pc bonus for this, and for practical purposes you want to double bar this set.

Anyway like i said there are tanky sets out there, but those will require more investment, since most good mitigation sets are now full of armour bonuses, which will heavily eats into your damage.

Anyway the way i look at it, they want to make it harder to be tanky and do good damage, not impossible, just harder.

Kadoin

Firstmep wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

I think looking at the set changes they want to push out the tanky brawler meta, in favor of more damaging setups.

Both procsets and crit-sets and crit related stuff got buffed, while a lot of bruiser sets got nerfed the last 2 patches.

Bloodspawn, fury, potentates etc.

There are still tanky sets out there, but those generally require more of an investment, which is good imho.

I was never a fan of the "Sit on backbar and rotate defensive buffs and heals till ult" type of playstyle, although i know a lot of ppl only know how to smallscale/1vX on 30k resist s/b tanks, too bad i guess.

keep talking...

The Juggernaut: Increased the healing of this set to 20000, up from 18060. This set now also grants 20000 Armor for 15 seconds after activating.


see this is the problem with zos, they have no direction at all

Yes, but you are sacrafacing an entire 5pc bonus for this, and for practical purposes you want to double bar this set.

Anyway like i said there are tanky sets out there, but those will require more investment, since most good mitigation sets are now full of armour bonuses, which will heavily eats into your damage.

Anyway the way i look at it, they want to make it harder to be tanky and do good damage, not impossible, just harder.

The only problem is that, 5-piece or not, it's still op because it applies a large heal without any investment and a buff afterwards.

Also, if it works anything like Mazzatun, last I checked you only need to one bar it and swap when your HP is in range, because the set (Mazzatun) checks the HP condition on every bar swap.

Ratzkifal

To be honest I don't think Fury needs a nerf. The nerfs to overall tankiness have resulted in fights being shorter, which means you rarely even get to the point where you have a lot of stacks because the fights end faster. I switched away from Fury to more upfront sets.