I'm starting to believe most players are upset with themselves.

Agenericname

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Maybe you should have to complete all parts of the dungeon to unlock the final boss and it's loot.
/runs and hides

Thats something that I wouldn't mind seeing personally. One of my characters has almost all of the challengers and some trifectas but got FG1 survivor after Mountain God because people want to skip the other bosses.

On my tank, which has almost the same achievements save the trifectas, I typically run with a group now because it's usually the achievements that I'm after.

I sort of chuckle when I read the "fake tank" threads because it's mostly a self induced problem.

Genuinely asking, how are fake tanks a "self induced problem"?

Fake tanks are caused by a lack of tanks in the finder. Many tanks stay out of the dungeon finder for various reasons, but nearly all of those are the groups themselves.

DigitalHype

Vevvev wrote: »

Many times the gear we're looking for drops from the final boss. Like for instance I'm still trying to get the Burning Spellweave Inferno Staff from City of Ash and it only drops from the final boss in that dungeon. Just to make life easier I've been using stage 4 vampirisim to cheese it and skip just about everything so I could get to the end. After doing that dungeon over 40 times and still no inferno staff my sanity is gone....

I at least have the courtesy to use this tactic solo but you'll find there are a lot of people in ESO who have done the same dungeon over, and over, and over, and over again and they still don't get the item they are looking for. It drives them to just ignoring everyone and blazing a trail to the end in hopes their search finally ends. This phenomenon even happens in DLC dungeons so its not just a non-ESO+ thing.

I've been solo farming CoA 1 for BSW staff for 9 months. There are people in my guild that have been trying to get it for 2 years. I do not believe it's pure RNG.

Jim_Berry

Agenericname wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Maybe you should have to complete all parts of the dungeon to unlock the final boss and it's loot.
/runs and hides

Thats something that I wouldn't mind seeing personally. One of my characters has almost all of the challengers and some trifectas but got FG1 survivor after Mountain God because people want to skip the other bosses.

On my tank, which has almost the same achievements save the trifectas, I typically run with a group now because it's usually the achievements that I'm after.

I sort of chuckle when I read the "fake tank" threads because it's mostly a self induced problem.

Genuinely asking, how are fake tanks a "self induced problem"?

Fake tanks are caused by a lack of tanks in the finder. Many tanks stay out of the dungeon finder for various reasons, but nearly all of those are the groups themselves.

Does that make me a fake healer since I am a Khajiit Nightblade with Julianos and Resto staff? It's mainly just to get dungeons to pop faster so I can get them finished, rather than waiting an hour in queue, get in, and my quests are skipped.

DigitalHype

Jim_Berry wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Maybe you should have to complete all parts of the dungeon to unlock the final boss and it's loot.
/runs and hides

Thats something that I wouldn't mind seeing personally. One of my characters has almost all of the challengers and some trifectas but got FG1 survivor after Mountain God because people want to skip the other bosses.

On my tank, which has almost the same achievements save the trifectas, I typically run with a group now because it's usually the achievements that I'm after.

I sort of chuckle when I read the "fake tank" threads because it's mostly a self induced problem.

Genuinely asking, how are fake tanks a "self induced problem"?

Fake tanks are caused by a lack of tanks in the finder. Many tanks stay out of the dungeon finder for various reasons, but nearly all of those are the groups themselves.

Does that make me a fake healer since I am a Khajiit Nightblade with Julianos and Resto staff? It's mainly just to get dungeons to pop faster so I can get them finished, rather than waiting an hour in queue, get in, and my quests are skipped.

What if everyone did this? Then there would be no point in a role and everyone would have the same queue time. Its selfish.

BeamsForDemacia

as long as it works its not selfish imo

Fur_like_snow

Some people aren’t happy unless they can complain about the thing they’re doing.

MasterSpatula

The way random dungeons work are pretty frustrating to people who aren't on the random. The entire concept of rewards for random dungeons is to get more people into the GF queue. It doesn't accomplish much if few of them actually want to do the content.

Leads in dungeons should have been guaranteed, or at least a very high drop rate. Not doing so was certain to exacerbate this problem. It shouldn't even have been possible not to foresee that. But ZOS are utterly addicted to their RNG grinds. Shark gotta swim; bird gotta fly; ZOS gotta suck the joy out of everything by making you repeat it until it becomes tedious and frustrating.

Kawiki

I see skipping things a lot also. However, anytime I am actually doing the quest I usually just say at the start “hi, doing quest”. I have never had a problem. I’ve seen other people do the same and again no issues ever.

This is on PC thought, maybe PC people are generally nice....

AlnilamE

DigitalHype wrote: »

Jim_Berry wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Maybe you should have to complete all parts of the dungeon to unlock the final boss and it's loot.
/runs and hides

Thats something that I wouldn't mind seeing personally. One of my characters has almost all of the challengers and some trifectas but got FG1 survivor after Mountain God because people want to skip the other bosses.

On my tank, which has almost the same achievements save the trifectas, I typically run with a group now because it's usually the achievements that I'm after.

I sort of chuckle when I read the "fake tank" threads because it's mostly a self induced problem.

Genuinely asking, how are fake tanks a "self induced problem"?

Fake tanks are caused by a lack of tanks in the finder. Many tanks stay out of the dungeon finder for various reasons, but nearly all of those are the groups themselves.

Does that make me a fake healer since I am a Khajiit Nightblade with Julianos and Resto staff? It's mainly just to get dungeons to pop faster so I can get them finished, rather than waiting an hour in queue, get in, and my quests are skipped.

What if everyone did this? Then there would be no point in a role and everyone would have the same queue time. Its selfish.

Well, if he's actually healing, then he's not a fake healer. Same with my stamplar DPS, when she puts on tanking gear and taunts/debuffs, she's a tank. And she knows how to act like one.

amm7sb14_ESO

Agenericname wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Maybe you should have to complete all parts of the dungeon to unlock the final boss and it's loot.
/runs and hides

Thats something that I wouldn't mind seeing personally. One of my characters has almost all of the challengers and some trifectas but got FG1 survivor after Mountain God because people want to skip the other bosses.

On my tank, which has almost the same achievements save the trifectas, I typically run with a group now because it's usually the achievements that I'm after.

I sort of chuckle when I read the "fake tank" threads because it's mostly a self induced problem.

Genuinely asking, how are fake tanks a "self induced problem"?

Fake tanks are caused by a lack of tanks in the finder. Many tanks stay out of the dungeon finder for various reasons, but nearly all of those are the groups themselves.

Fake tanks are caused by DPS who queue as a tank to skip the DPS queue line. If there were more tanks, DPS would just queue as healers, or whatever was fastest to get through.

amm7sb14_ESO

Jim_Berry wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Maybe you should have to complete all parts of the dungeon to unlock the final boss and it's loot.
/runs and hides

Thats something that I wouldn't mind seeing personally. One of my characters has almost all of the challengers and some trifectas but got FG1 survivor after Mountain God because people want to skip the other bosses.

On my tank, which has almost the same achievements save the trifectas, I typically run with a group now because it's usually the achievements that I'm after.

I sort of chuckle when I read the "fake tank" threads because it's mostly a self induced problem.

Genuinely asking, how are fake tanks a "self induced problem"?

Fake tanks are caused by a lack of tanks in the finder. Many tanks stay out of the dungeon finder for various reasons, but nearly all of those are the groups themselves.

Does that make me a fake healer since I am a Khajiit Nightblade with Julianos and Resto staff? It's mainly just to get dungeons to pop faster so I can get them finished, rather than waiting an hour in queue, get in, and my quests are skipped.

Yes. That does make you a fake healer.

amm7sb14_ESO

BeamsForDemacia wrote: »

as long as it works its not selfish imo

It is selfish.

It's not so much that it "works", rather than on some easier content, you can get by in spite of it.

But even in some of the easier content, I've seen it make things needlessly more complicated than it needs to be when you have a fake tank that can't or won't hold aggro, bosses are chasing DPS and healers around the room, meaning that damage can't be focused on the boss, meaning it burns slower despite having more dps, and everything just generally being a disorganized mess.

Even if it *does* "work", you have a whole range of people doing random groups, many of which are still learning. People can't learn their role in a group when the group dynamics are being upended just so someone can skip a queue, so it's still doing more harm than good.

But hey, at least you didn't have to spend 20 minutes crafting while you waited in a queue.

newtinmpls

Jim_Berry wrote: »

I am experiencing the same community issue; people skip everything in a dungeon to kill the last boss.

I don't get the reasoning behind it, nor have I got an explanation. The people who do it never respond

I snipped a bit, but the point I wanted to make was that it's the communication that makes or breaks this.

I've played for long enough that I can do most of the base dungeons (and likely about half of the vet base dungeons) as a speed run without really thinking about it.

That being said, there are a few times when there was someone who was doing the "run ahead and leave the trash mobs for the rest to mop up"

Recently this happened twice. Both times we (more than one of us) said in chat to please slow down.

1-It's less fun for us to rush

2-if they did kill a boss alone, that deprives the rest of the group of the drops.

3-just generally don't act like a poop (Normally I would say "like a $#%^" which is a tribute to Beetle Baily comics where profanity was not used, but rather indicated - yes I'm dating myself here - oops topic drift - back to the story)

Both times recently there was no answer....so vote to kick. One was booted with no problem, the other felt the need to trash talk in chat which was ignored (this was PC NA so it was zone, not voice chat).

Let me be clear:

Actually communicate - and I (and most of my group - we don't always have four online, so often there is only one PUG member) will be happy to accommodate you with a faster run.

For that matter asking at the end "do you have such and so drop that I could have" is in poor taste. Mention it at the start, actually COMMUNICATE and there tends to be a better response.

newtinmpls

DTAmoral wrote: »

I fully expect every dungeon I go into that we will skip as much of the dungeon as possible, and get to the end as quick as possible.

If you communicate that at the start - well and good.

Myself and the folks i play with are happy to work WITH you.

If you just act like a poop and run ahead in one of my 3+PUG groups we will politely ask you to rein it in, and if you don't, we will vote to kick.

amm7sb14_ESO

newtinmpls wrote: »

Jim_Berry wrote: »

For that matter asking at the end "do you have such and so drop that I could have" is in poor taste. Mention it at the start, actually COMMUNICATE and there tends to be a better response.

idk that I agree that asking at the end is *poor taste*, but I do like to say on the front end if I am looking for a certain set or a certain piece.

Someone asking at the end, however, has never bothered me.

newtinmpls

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

idk that I agree that asking at the end is *poor taste*, but I do like to say on the front end if I am looking for a certain set or a certain piece.

Someone asking at the end, however, has never bothered me.

Good point; a lot depends on how well they "played with the group" during the run in general.

redgreensunset

Jim_Berry wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Maybe you should have to complete all parts of the dungeon to unlock the final boss and it's loot.
/runs and hides

Thats something that I wouldn't mind seeing personally. One of my characters has almost all of the challengers and some trifectas but got FG1 survivor after Mountain God because people want to skip the other bosses.

On my tank, which has almost the same achievements save the trifectas, I typically run with a group now because it's usually the achievements that I'm after.

I sort of chuckle when I read the "fake tank" threads because it's mostly a self induced problem.

Genuinely asking, how are fake tanks a "self induced problem"?

Fake tanks are caused by a lack of tanks in the finder. Many tanks stay out of the dungeon finder for various reasons, but nearly all of those are the groups themselves.

Does that make me a fake healer since I am a Khajiit Nightblade with Julianos and Resto staff? It's mainly just to get dungeons to pop faster so I can get them finished, rather than waiting an hour in queue, get in, and my quests are skipped.

Can you heal satisfactorily according to your group's need? Because if yes then no, you're not a fake healer. A half*ssed one perhaps, but not a fake one. To me a fake X is someone who can't even be bothered to try and do their job-

amm7sb14_ESO

redgreensunset wrote: »

Jim_Berry wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Maybe you should have to complete all parts of the dungeon to unlock the final boss and it's loot.
/runs and hides

Thats something that I wouldn't mind seeing personally. One of my characters has almost all of the challengers and some trifectas but got FG1 survivor after Mountain God because people want to skip the other bosses.

On my tank, which has almost the same achievements save the trifectas, I typically run with a group now because it's usually the achievements that I'm after.

I sort of chuckle when I read the "fake tank" threads because it's mostly a self induced problem.

Genuinely asking, how are fake tanks a "self induced problem"?

Fake tanks are caused by a lack of tanks in the finder. Many tanks stay out of the dungeon finder for various reasons, but nearly all of those are the groups themselves.

Does that make me a fake healer since I am a Khajiit Nightblade with Julianos and Resto staff? It's mainly just to get dungeons to pop faster so I can get them finished, rather than waiting an hour in queue, get in, and my quests are skipped.

Can you heal satisfactorily according to your group's need? Because if yes then no, you're not a fake healer. A half*ssed one perhaps, but not a fake one. To me a fake X is someone who can't even be bothered to try and do their job-

True. I can accept a "fake" whatever as long as they at least attempt the basics of their role

volkeswagon

I don't do any of that stuff. I just farm mats and run around applauding and dancing with random players

SickleCider

I wish people wouldn't "skip adds." Here's a story from last night.

I'm CP810, kitted out, etc. etc., running Arx Corinium in a pug (farming Medusa for next patch). Group wanted to skip the adds, and had them running around everywhere, and I tried to play along. Somehow I ended up being the first one at the wamasu boss (I think probably they got snared and I lost track of them), so I started to work on it. Suddenly another group member shows up with basically all the hostiles in the dungeon at their back. I get bitten in the back of the head by about twelve snakes or whatever, and because I'm wearing Thrassian, I fold over. So I'm lying there in a puddle, watching the team struggle with all the adds, and the wamasu. I'm pretty sure the dungeon took more time than if they'd just let me stack adds up and kill them. I wasn't mad, I thought it was kind of funny, and I should have been more aware of what was going on behind me, but still.

EDIT: Oh, and before someone says it, I can and have farmed Arx Cor solo. It's just so boring after the 30th time. Running a pug is definitely more interesting.

SirLeeMinion

Versispellis wrote: »

I wish people wouldn't "skip adds." ... I'm pretty sure the dungeon took more time than if they'd just let me stack adds up and kill them...

The shortcut in Blackheart always seems to turn out this way ... stuck forever at the first door until you find the mob that has aggro but was left behind. Taking shortcuts through the lava and using a horse to save time in CoA 2 is also frequently hilariously longer than just killing mobs and running.

SteveCampsOut

newtinmpls wrote: »

DTAmoral wrote: »

I fully expect every dungeon I go into that we will skip as much of the dungeon as possible, and get to the end as quick as possible.

If you communicate that at the start - well and good.

Myself and the folks i play with are happy to work WITH you.

If you just act like a poop and run ahead in one of my 3+PUG groups we will politely ask you to rein it in, and if you don't, we will vote to kick.

See right here. I always say upfront what I'm doing in a dungeon whether it be a quest or Hard Mode or a Fast Run. Why should just the questors have to communicate. Those seeking a speed run and keys should speak up upfront as well. Just sayin'!

SeaGtGruff

The sad truth is, many people are selfish and inconsiderate, and if they happen to be gamers then sooner or later you're going to run into them in your online gaming.

Playing dungeons with fellow guild members may or may not help you avoid players who seem to care only about skipping past as much of a dungeon as possible and killing the final boss as fast as possible.

One of the most aggravating experiences I had was with a fellow guild member who "helped" another player and me with a dungeon so we could get our event tickets and reward box, but as soon as we entered the dungeon this "helpful" player ran ahead, skipped most of the bosses, went straight to the last boss, and killed it. By the time the other player and I managed to get there, Miss "Helpful" was long gone and we were unable to loot the boss's corpse and get our event tickets and reward box. When we said something to her about it, she acted like she had no idea that we wouldn't be able to loot the corpse due to the fact that we'd been nowhere near the fight and had not heen able to do even a single point of damage to the boss. So we tried to queue for the dungeon again, and guess who we got? You guessed it-- Miss "Helpful." Needless to say, I left the group, and by that time the daily rollover was just scant minutes away, so I missed my first day's tickets and rewards because of her utter lack of consideration. I was so disgusted that I skipped the rest of the event on the PC EU server, and just enjoyed the event as much as possible on the PC NA server where I was able to solo dungeons with my main.

If you can find a group of friends or fellow guild members who you know you can rely on, then count yourself fortunate. And it's definitely possible to get into a random group of considerate players by answering someone's call for help in zone chat, because whenever I've chipped in to help someone out, the entire group was usually very helpful, even if things got bad and we ended up wiping several times before finally completing the dungeon.

Otherwise, your best bet is to build a character who's able to solo as much of the content you're interested in as possible.

newtinmpls

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

as soon as we entered the dungeon this "helpful" player ran ahead, skipped most of the bosses, went straight to the last boss, and killed it. By the time the other player and I managed to get there, Miss "Helpful" was long gone and we were unable to loot the boss's corpse and get our event tickets and reward box. When we said something to her about it, she acted like she had no idea

Yup, had something similar.

Now I keep an eye out. If they run past mobs to even the first boss, I speak up in chat - and if they don't slow it down, I vote to kick; or leave, depending on how that goes.

Vote early when this starts happening. Or leave early.

SickleCider

SirLeeMinion wrote: »

Versispellis wrote: »

I wish people wouldn't "skip adds." ... I'm pretty sure the dungeon took more time than if they'd just let me stack adds up and kill them...

The shortcut in Blackheart always seems to turn out this way ... stuck forever at the first door until you find the mob that has aggro but was left behind. Taking shortcuts through the lava and using a horse to save time in CoA 2 is also frequently hilariously longer than just killing mobs and running.

Gosh, yeah, that one can go sideways so easily. lol There's that one in Ruins of Mazzatun I think (it's been a while) that never, ever works out as planned, too.

Firstmep

Honestly the group finder is typically for people who cant/don't want to find a group on their own.
If you want to experience the story, grab a couple of pals and do it with them.
You can't really expect total strangers to slow down, just so you can listen to the full dialog of every npc.
It's likely they have done whatever dungeon you're in a bazillion times already.

Luckylancer

Fix: make dungeon quests replayable and reward a random item. Done, fixed.

ChimpyChumpy

Vevvev wrote: »

Many times the gear we're looking for drops from the final boss. Like for instance I'm still trying to get the Burning Spellweave Inferno Staff from City of Ash and it only drops from the final boss in that dungeon. Just to make life easier I've been using stage 4 vampirisim to cheese it and skip just about everything so I could get to the end. After doing that dungeon over 40 times and still no inferno staff my sanity is gone....

I at least have the courtesy to use this tactic solo but you'll find there are a lot of people in ESO who have done the same dungeon over, and over, and over, and over again and they still don't get the item they are looking for. It drives them to just ignoring everyone and blazing a trail to the end in hopes their search finally ends. This phenomenon even happens in DLC dungeons so its not just a non-ESO+ thing.

Not actually sure about this, pretty sure same loot tables in chests. Consider looking for chests.

barney2525

Danel_Vadan wrote: »

I think there should be a notification that pops up when entering a dungeon that notifies us that one or more players has not completed the main quest in that dungeon.

Yes, that notification is you saying it in chat. People are not going to wait for you just because. It's up to you to ask; most of us are just there to kill the boss and get our keys.

IMHO

if this is true, and from everything I have read, it seems to be true ...

Zos needs to completely change everything about dungeons. Everything.

What you are describing is just sitting at a table, playing roulette, oblivious to anything or anyone around you.

Its not even an MMORPG at that point

IMHO

Tigerseye

Soulshine wrote: »

Sorry but I do find it baffling that these kinds of threads always come up.

In a nutshell:

PUGing is not the way to get these things accomplished.

It just isn't. The randomness of who you get is always the dictating factor. Everything from the speed of the run, the quality of the players (or lack of it), the "fake tanks," the "fake dps," the "fake healers," the "rude" etc...

Ugh!

Just get a dedicated group and you are golden. If you have been around this long, you must have a friends list by now. If you don't - make one.

There is no such thing as a "fake DPS".

There are low DPS DPS and/or inexperienced DPS, but there is no such thing as a fake DPS, as there is no advantage to queueing as a DPS when you aren't one.

In fact, there is only a disadvantage; a long queue time.