Tzogvin change seems super bad?

Nemesis7884

Tzogvin's Warband:
Increased the Weapon Critical granted from this set to 134 per stack, up from 129.
Reduced the duration of the stacks to 5 seconds, down from 10.
Added a 500ms cooldown to generating stacks.

Do I understand this right that you have to basically crit ever .5 seconds consistently forever to be able to reach max stacks and get the minor force?

seems really user unfriendly?

Celestro

It is the same sort of bonus as the Berserking Warrior set, which had its duration brought down to 5 from 6 and already had a 0.5 second delay for building its stacks. Not to say its not user unfriendly but has a bit of a precedent at least, so good old standardization from the look of things.

Olupajmibanan

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Tzogvin's Warband:
Increased the Weapon Critical granted from this set to 134 per stack, up from 129.
Reduced the duration of the stacks to 5 seconds, down from 10.
Added a 500ms cooldown to generating stacks.

Do I understand this right that you have to basically crit ever .5 seconds consistently forever to be able to reach max stacks and get the minor force?

seems really user unfriendly?

You have to crit at least once per 5 seconds in order to get to full stacks and keep them. Minimum of 5 seconds is needed to get to full stacks.

Don't see a big deal here.

Runefang

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Tzogvin's Warband:
Increased the Weapon Critical granted from this set to 134 per stack, up from 129.
Reduced the duration of the stacks to 5 seconds, down from 10.
Added a 500ms cooldown to generating stacks.

Do I understand this right that you have to basically crit ever .5 seconds consistently forever to be able to reach max stacks and get the minor force?

seems really user unfriendly?

I think you misunderstand, as long as you crit once every 5 seconds no stacks will fall off. It's worded like this for all similar sets but individual stacks don't have a cooldown despite the wording.

stefj68

well on the backbar i don't have the 5 pieces set effects, with 10 seconds i was able to refresh everything, swap back to main bar and hope a crits in next 4-5 seconds... now i feel i will have to barswap 2 or 3 times more often to maintain the buff... you dont call it a nerf... the .500ms is fine, but lowering it to 5seconds its hurting!

Nemesis7884

oh so you only have to refresh once in 5 seconds, i thought you have to build up everything in 5 seconds, alright yeah...but makes it unusable as backbar set probably....alright

MudcrabAttack

If people use 4 skills in a row on the back bar, the change may be more annoying to them

WrathOfInnos

Hmm that is true. Like the old StamDK rotation that was literally each of the 5 skills ok back bar, then each of the 5 skills on front bar. That would be bad for the new Tzogvin’s. I’m not aware of any current class rotations like this though, and the best ones always do only a couple skills on back bar at a time (if you can get comfortable with bar swaps).

The 10s duration wasn’t really overpowered either, seems like an unnecessary change that only hurts players struggling with more difficult rotations.

Arjuna1696

I run Tzogvin on my bow/bow warden - head, shoulders, & jewelry so that I can front bar the Master's bow, which I imagine most folks running bow/bow are doing - so I don't know that the 10s --> 5s thing will be too problematic, as I can maintain stacks on my back bar as well as front bar.

InqueBlawt

Arjuna1696 wrote: »

I run Tzogvin on my bow/bow warden - head, shoulders, & jewelry so that I can front bar the Master's bow, which I imagine most folks running bow/bow are doing - so I don't know that the 10s --> 5s thing will be too problematic, as I can maintain stacks on my back bar as well as front bar.

Same I had 92% uptime no issues. I did notice slight damage loss in general due to shadow changes.

ecru

This is going to make the set basically impossible to use without full body pieces, weird change IMO.

Nemesis7884

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Hmm that is true. Like the old StamDK rotation that was literally each of the 5 skills ok back bar, then each of the 5 skills on front bar. That would be bad for the new Tzogvin’s. I’m not aware of any current class rotations like this though, and the best ones always do only a couple skills on back bar at a time (if you can get comfortable with bar swaps).

The 10s duration wasn’t really overpowered either, seems like an unnecessary change that only hurts players struggling with more difficult rotations.

its also really weird because they have recently standardized around 10 second rotations and now they are changing that again...so yeah just shows that there is no template just wild changes left and right

Nemesis7884

Arjuna1696 wrote: »

I run Tzogvin on my bow/bow warden - head, shoulders, & jewelry so that I can front bar the Master's bow, which I imagine most folks running bow/bow are doing - so I don't know that the 10s --> 5s thing will be too problematic, as I can maintain stacks on my back bar as well as front bar.

not everybody wants to run without monster or as bow bow

MudcrabAttack

Also it's ruined for me on trash fights. If most weak mobs die within 5-6 seconds, the 5 piece is basically a waste since it's taking longer than 5 seconds to fully proc. Sometimes 6-7 seconds.

I wear this set on live specifically for the AOE trash fights on a bow build since I didn't want to throw trap on the ground.

nesakinter

Acuity is straight up better for real fights than Tzogvin after its buff, in fact even giving meta sets like AY a run. The Acuity we are receiving next patch is stronger than its release version.

mzprx

nesakinter wrote: »

Acuity is straight up better for real fights than Tzogvin after its buff, in fact even giving meta sets like AY a run. The Acuity we are receiving next patch is stronger than its release version.

i was actually quite surprised when they announced that they're removing the proc chance. the original MA had easier proc conditions than the current one, but still, it was only a "chance" (don't remember the exact percentage now). now it procs 100% (when you deal direct damage after the cooldown, plus everything that can crit WILL crit when it procs). that is way stronger than the original MA and that needed to be nerfed, as everyone and their mother was using it. kind of SMH moment..

kathandira

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Tzogvin's Warband:
Increased the Weapon Critical granted from this set to 134 per stack, up from 129.
Reduced the duration of the stacks to 5 seconds, down from 10.
Added a 500ms cooldown to generating stacks.

Do I understand this right that you have to basically crit ever .5 seconds consistently forever to be able to reach max stacks and get the minor force?

seems really user unfriendly?

Nope. You need to crit once every 4 seconds (roughly) to get to max stacks.

katorga

mzprx wrote: »

nesakinter wrote: »

Acuity is straight up better for real fights than Tzogvin after its buff, in fact even giving meta sets like AY a run. The Acuity we are receiving next patch is stronger than its release version.

i was actually quite surprised when they announced that they're removing the proc chance. the original MA had easier proc conditions than the current one, but still, it was only a "chance" (don't remember the exact percentage now). now it procs 100% (when you deal direct damage after the cooldown, plus everything that can crit WILL crit when it procs). that is way stronger than the original MA and that needed to be nerfed, as everyone and their mother was using it. kind of SMH moment..

It doesn't have duration so it seems to me that it means the next single thing that can crit will crit. Then you have to do another direct damage, and get another crit. The old set every source of damage that could crit would crit for 5 seconds.

How is it actually working on pts?

MashmalloMan

katorga wrote: »

mzprx wrote: »

nesakinter wrote: »

Acuity is straight up better for real fights than Tzogvin after its buff, in fact even giving meta sets like AY a run. The Acuity we are receiving next patch is stronger than its release version.

i was actually quite surprised when they announced that they're removing the proc chance. the original MA had easier proc conditions than the current one, but still, it was only a "chance" (don't remember the exact percentage now). now it procs 100% (when you deal direct damage after the cooldown, plus everything that can crit WILL crit when it procs). that is way stronger than the original MA and that needed to be nerfed, as everyone and their mother was using it. kind of SMH moment..

It doesn't have duration so it seems to me that it means the next single thing that can crit will crit. Then you have to do another direct damage, and get another crit. The old set every source of damage that could crit would crit for 5 seconds.

How is it actually working on pts?

There is absolutely nothing listed as a change to the duration so it remains the same way as live. The change was just to remove the proc chance and move around the max stam/mag.

• Mechanical Acuity:
  • Removed the proc chance from this set.
  • This set now grants its guaranteed Critical Strike to any ability that can naturally Critically Strike, rather than only attacks.
  • Reordered this set’s 2-4 piece bonus to better account for bar swapping.

Based on the above quote (not actually checking on pts) the set should now look like this, not sure where spell and wp damage land but..:

(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina, Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(3 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(4 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(5 items) When you deal critical damage gain unerring mechanical vision for 5 seconds, causing your attacks to always be a Critical Strike. This effect can occur once every 18 seconds.