Pet Sorc

FearTheRealFett

Are Pets getting a buff with this new “hybrid” calculator or nerfed? Necropotence is a pet set but they nerfed it a little more then Crafty <1%. But still not sure how the Magika & Spell Dmg pet works now and why not nerf Necrop and Crafty the same? Pets die and that set bonus disappears fast.

Any thoughts from those smarter people then me out there? Thx

FearTheRealFett

I’m on console so can’t PTS. Has any PC player tested this yet?

Any feedback at all would be awesome🤙

newtinmpls

I'm curious too....

FearTheRealFett

newtinmpls wrote: »

I'm curious too....

Just to know the math would be nice.
If it takes all your Magika, as it did prior to this patch, and added any spell damage to increase Pet damage then we are good.

But...if it’s 50/50 Magika/Spell Damage then I would consider that a nerf.

RefLiberty

FearTheRealFett wrote: »

Are Pets getting a buff with this new “hybrid” calculator or nerfed? Necropotence is a pet set but they nerfed it a little more then Crafty <1%. But still not sure how the Magika & Spell Dmg pet works now and why not nerf Necrop and Crafty the same? Pets die and that set bonus disappears fast.

Any thoughts from those smarter people then me out there? Thx

Pets are nerfed. Everything is nerfed

All pets from this skill line now use a hybrid of your Spell Damage and Max Magicka, rather than purely Max Magicka. This change was done to reduce the total power of these abilities when stacking a singular stat.

Also, Necropotence: Reduced the Magicka granted while a pet is active to 3132, down from 3150.

---

Prior to patch, and the numbers are just example, so if you had:

Magica 36500
Summon Volatile Familiar IV:
The familiar's attacks deal 1165 Shock Damage.
Once summoned, you can activate the familiar's special ability for 3510 Magicka, dealing 1944 Shock Damage every 2 seconds for 10 seconds


After the patch, when Spell damage is calculated:

Magica: 36500
Spell Damage: 1800
Summon Volatile Familiar IV:
The familiar's attacks deal 885 Shock Damage.
Once summoned, you can activate the familiar's special ability for 3510 Magicka, dealing 1481 Shock Damage every 2 seconds for 10 seconds

So the nerf is hard, of you had gear that does not add much spell damage, but magica or crit, your pet damage will go down hard.

In conclusion, to reach 1944 pet damage from pure Magica setup, you will need now to have like

Magica: 36500
Spell Damage: 3456

FearTheRealFett

RefLiberty wrote: »

Prior to patch, and the numbers are just example, so if you had:

Magica 36500
Summon Volatile Familiar IV:
The familiar's attacks deal 1165 Shock Damage.
Once summoned, you can activate the familiar's special ability for 3510 Magicka, dealing 1944 Shock Damage every 2 seconds for 10 seconds


After the patch, when Spell damage is calculated:

Magica: 36500
Spell Damage: 1800
Summon Volatile Familiar IV:
The familiar's attacks deal 885 Shock Damage.
Once summoned, you can activate the familiar's special ability for 3510 Magicka, dealing 1481 Shock Damage every 2 seconds for 10 seconds

So the nerf is hard, of you had gear that does not add much spell damage, but magica or crit, your pet damage will go down hard.

In conclusion, to reach 1944 pet damage from pure Magica setup, you will need now to have like

Magica: 36500
Spell Damage: 3456

That is a giant nerf...why such a big hammer to pets?? I won’t even run a pet now and free up bar space for other skills.
Are there really monster pet sorcs out there?

I am a PVE AOE lightning pet sorc and can hold my own but am no where near the dps of a Inferno Mag sorc.

Now I’m just a ventriloquist....

FearTheRealFett

Before:

Magika: 36500
Spell Power: 1800

After:

Magicka: 36500
Spell Power: 3456

Nearly a 100% increase in Spell Power required just to get back to baseline. There has to be a better formula or a more accurate scale for this hybrid nerf.

If I have to increase my Spell Power by 100% then I should have the opposite effect of my
Magicka.

Magika: 18250
Spell Damage: 3456


I know these are hypothetical numbers and relatively easy to hit but I compare that to someone who is all in on Magicka now and now to just stay on par with pet damage you can’t lose any Magika but have to gain double your current spell damage....completely insane😡

Larcomar

That's... a massive nerf to pets if true. It sounds like you need to have both max mag and spell d to get close. Which means dropping another stay ie crit which is going to hit just as hard. Are pet sorcs grossly out damaging other classes at end game or something? I thought they were pretty well balanced but I may be out of touch. What's the reasoning for it?

Stx

I'm confused why you are using 1800 spell damage as an example of why this is a nerf... that is a very low amount, so of course your pets will do less damage.

Try 4k spell damagebs or at least 3.5k. That is easily obtainable with purple gear.

FearTheRealFett

Larcomar wrote: »

That's... a massive nerf to pets if true. It sounds like you need to have both max mag and spell d to get close. Which means dropping another stay ie crit which is going to hit just as hard. Are pet sorcs grossly out damaging other classes at end game or something? I thought they were pretty well balanced but I may be out of touch. What's the reasoning for it?

On the same page...Is Pet Sorc the new 3 piece Trainee set for beginners now?

My problem with the games “rebalancing” is that ESO to me is a PVE game 1st and PVP 2nd...but so many drastic changes come from PVP needs that it cripples PVE for classes.

If Class (A) 10% stronger in PVP but on par in PVE then give me a 10% debuff in PVP and leave me alone in PVE!!!

FearTheRealFett

Stx wrote: »

I'm confused why you are using 1800 spell damage as an example of why this is a nerf... that is a very low amount, so of course your pets will do less damage.

Try 4k spell damagebs or at least 3.5k. That is easily obtainable with purple gear.

It could be 0000 Spell Damage. The point is that the requirement for Magicka hasn’t change at all...but the Spell Damage requirement is in addition too.

Larcomar

FearTheRealFett wrote: »

On the same page...Is Pet Sorc the new 3 piece Trainee set for beginners now?

My problem with the games “rebalancing” is that ESO to me is a PVE game 1st and PVP 2nd...but so many drastic changes come from PVP needs that it cripples PVE for classes.

If Class (A) 10% stronger in PVP but on par in PVE then give me a 10% debuff in PVP and leave me alone in PVE!!!

Yeah, but I'd guess most magsorcs don't use pets in cyro anyway. That's certainly the standard sort of alcast build.

Larcomar

Stx wrote: »

I'm confused why you are using 1800 spell damage as an example of why this is a nerf... that is a very low amount, so of course your pets will do less damage.

Try 4k spell damagebs or at least 3.5k. That is easily obtainable with purple gear.

Sure, but everything's a trade off. To boost spell damage, while keeping magika, you'd have to drop something else - which for most I would guess is crit.

More generally, I'm maybe out of date, but what's the problem they are trying to solve? I've not seen anything saying pet sorcs are outdamaging other classes...

Just looked at the patch notes. There's a lot of weird very small changes, plus some stuff that looks major just sort of bundled in like they didn't realise the impact it would have eg templar jabs. Wondering if this is just not thought through

WrathOfInnos

FearTheRealFett wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

I'm confused why you are using 1800 spell damage as an example of why this is a nerf... that is a very low amount, so of course your pets will do less damage.

Try 4k spell damagebs or at least 3.5k. That is easily obtainable with purple gear.

It could be 0000 Spell Damage. The point is that the requirement for Magicka hasn’t change at all...but the Spell Damage requirement is in addition too.

This doesn’t make sense. My understanding is they scale like other skills now, so you’ll get about the same pet damage on a 50k mag + 3k SD build or a 30k mag + 5k SD build.

Tommy_The_Gun

Knowing ZOS & Sorc changes history, it will be initially a nerf that people will cry about on forums, but later on, it wil turn out it is actually a strong buff, becouse some theory crafting expert genius will figure something out...

Wolf81

So the bigger question now..since I don't have trial sets(just yet) what would be a alternative setup to necropotence/sorrow combo that seems to be the standard before getting siroria/false god?

FearTheRealFett

Wolf81 wrote: »

So the bigger question now..since I don't have trial sets(just yet) what would be a alternative setup to necropotence/sorrow combo that seems to be the standard before getting siroria/false god?

I would say New Moon or this new set Talfyg’s Treachery....If the Thrassian Stranglers hadn’t been nerfed so hard or at least didn’t have the 30 second timer then we might have been ok but nope. False Gods received a nerf too so tough to see a clear path forward.

Ultimately I will definitely be dropping my pet/pets to free up space for other skills till the Theory Crafters bake something in the oven.

If nothing else, I will be playing Cyberpunk till they come full circle with Pet Sorc😉

FearTheRealFett

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Knowing ZOS & Sorc changes history, it will be initially a nerf that people will cry about on forums, but later on, it wil turn out it is actually a strong buff, becouse some theory crafting expert genius will figure something out...

If this was true then with so many changes and years this game has had Pet Sorcs would be able to control Godzilla by now...but that is far from the truth. I don’t feel OP by any means.

AcadianPaladin

Is this a shadow fix to the problem of sorc pets at crafting stations and getting in the way? By driving sorcs away from pets? At first glance, my sorc may need to dump pet(s) or retire (again). As a PvE lightning AoE pet sorc, she is already on life support for dps before any more pet nerfs.

jaws343

Larcomar wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

I'm confused why you are using 1800 spell damage as an example of why this is a nerf... that is a very low amount, so of course your pets will do less damage.

Try 4k spell damagebs or at least 3.5k. That is easily obtainable with purple gear.

Sure, but everything's a trade off. To boost spell damage, while keeping magika, you'd have to drop something else - which for most I would guess is crit.

More generally, I'm maybe out of date, but what's the problem they are trying to solve? I've not seen anything saying pet sorcs are outdamaging other classes...

Just looked at the patch notes. There's a lot of weird very small changes, plus some stuff that looks major just sort of bundled in like they didn't realise the impact it would have eg templar jabs. Wondering if this is just not thought through

I think the intention was to make it viable to run pets without needing to stack magicka while also limiting the damage potential from only stacking magicka.

The 3.5K SD and 36K Magicka values being thrown around is also not really unreasonable. I sit at 3K SD and 35K magicka unbuffed on my sorc right now and it would take very little tweaking to push that magicka up another 1K.

What I would be more interested in is how much damage goes up as spell damage increases.

Wolf81

I mean there will be more adjustments to PTR since this is its first iteration for the upcoming patch.

But regarding the pet stat changes...I need to see some more math and parses from dedicate 2 pet players, I'm worried they spaghetti math isn't as simple for the pets as 50/50 magicka/SP. Earlier friends have reported even throwing sets around the pets are getting a net nerf in total and in some cases someone started to wonder if you would still need the same high magicka in ADDITON to SP to get the same numbers on them as before...and that is very good. Additionally petsorcs might end up having to sacrifice more crit for SP thus leading to even bigger drop. Still a lot of theory at this stage though.

Lord-Otto

jaws343 wrote: »

Larcomar wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

I'm confused why you are using 1800 spell damage as an example of why this is a nerf... that is a very low amount, so of course your pets will do less damage.

Try 4k spell damagebs or at least 3.5k. That is easily obtainable with purple gear.

Sure, but everything's a trade off. To boost spell damage, while keeping magika, you'd have to drop something else - which for most I would guess is crit.

More generally, I'm maybe out of date, but what's the problem they are trying to solve? I've not seen anything saying pet sorcs are outdamaging other classes...

Just looked at the patch notes. There's a lot of weird very small changes, plus some stuff that looks major just sort of bundled in like they didn't realise the impact it would have eg templar jabs. Wondering if this is just not thought through

I think the intention was to make it viable to run pets without needing to stack magicka while also limiting the damage potential from only stacking magicka.

The 3.5K SD and 36K Magicka values being thrown around is also not really unreasonable. I sit at 3K SD and 35K magicka unbuffed on my sorc right now and it would take very little tweaking to push that magicka up another 1K.

What I would be more interested in is how much damage goes up as spell damage increases.

With the current meta setup of Mother's Sorrow and False-God's, it is quite unrealistic.

jaws343

Lord-Otto wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Larcomar wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

I'm confused why you are using 1800 spell damage as an example of why this is a nerf... that is a very low amount, so of course your pets will do less damage.

Try 4k spell damagebs or at least 3.5k. That is easily obtainable with purple gear.

Sure, but everything's a trade off. To boost spell damage, while keeping magika, you'd have to drop something else - which for most I would guess is crit.

More generally, I'm maybe out of date, but what's the problem they are trying to solve? I've not seen anything saying pet sorcs are outdamaging other classes...

Just looked at the patch notes. There's a lot of weird very small changes, plus some stuff that looks major just sort of bundled in like they didn't realise the impact it would have eg templar jabs. Wondering if this is just not thought through

I think the intention was to make it viable to run pets without needing to stack magicka while also limiting the damage potential from only stacking magicka.

The 3.5K SD and 36K Magicka values being thrown around is also not really unreasonable. I sit at 3K SD and 35K magicka unbuffed on my sorc right now and it would take very little tweaking to push that magicka up another 1K.

What I would be more interested in is how much damage goes up as spell damage increases.

With the current meta setup of Mother's Sorrow and False-God's, it is quite unrealistic.

I am currently running False Gods and NMA Front Barred. Not far off from the Meta.

zvavi

I am pet sorc (1 pet) and in trial (or dummy) I have total of 40k max mag and 4200 spell dmg. I run ms pfg and zaan. For pet sorcs running necropotence it is indeed a nerf, but all other sorcs get a small buff. When you calculate don't forget to add 10% max mag, 387 spell power from courage sources 450 spell dmg from backbar enchantment, and 30% spell dmg from buffs.

SirLeeMinion

So, I'm by no means a good player, but have been running pet-sorc this past year or so. Here's a parse from live in my current (non-BIS) gear:



Here's a parse in the same gear skills, etc... (I think... except helm has a prismatic vs. straight mag) from the PTS:



They are pretty close about 71K down to 70K, and I tend to vary in my parses by about 2K. Overall, it seems pretty similar damage wise, though the parse feels different with the frags proc.

zvavi

SirLeeMinion wrote: »

So, I'm by no means a good player, but have been running pet-sorc this past year or so. Here's a parse from live in my current (non-BIS) gear:



Here's a parse in the same gear skills, etc... (I think... except helm has a prismatic vs. straight mag) from the PTS:



They are pretty close about 71K down to 70K, and I tend to vary in my parses by about 2K. Overall, it seems pretty similar damage wise, though the parse feels different with the frags proc.

And even with wrong enchantment the damage you lost is not coming from pets, but from frag procs, and la dmg. Point made, pet sorc got a buff.

Dagoth_Rac

Lord-Otto wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Larcomar wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

I'm confused why you are using 1800 spell damage as an example of why this is a nerf... that is a very low amount, so of course your pets will do less damage.

Try 4k spell damagebs or at least 3.5k. That is easily obtainable with purple gear.

Sure, but everything's a trade off. To boost spell damage, while keeping magika, you'd have to drop something else - which for most I would guess is crit.

More generally, I'm maybe out of date, but what's the problem they are trying to solve? I've not seen anything saying pet sorcs are outdamaging other classes...

Just looked at the patch notes. There's a lot of weird very small changes, plus some stuff that looks major just sort of bundled in like they didn't realise the impact it would have eg templar jabs. Wondering if this is just not thought through

I think the intention was to make it viable to run pets without needing to stack magicka while also limiting the damage potential from only stacking magicka.

The 3.5K SD and 36K Magicka values being thrown around is also not really unreasonable. I sit at 3K SD and 35K magicka unbuffed on my sorc right now and it would take very little tweaking to push that magicka up another 1K.

What I would be more interested in is how much damage goes up as spell damage increases.

With the current meta setup of Mother's Sorrow and False-God's, it is quite unrealistic.

I am using 2-pet heavy attack lightning sorc on live. Necropotence + Mother's Sorrow + Maw of Infernal + non-perfected VMA fire staff on backbar. My DPS was barely changed on PTS. It went up a bit when switching out Necropotence for New Moon Acolyte. I want to try infused spell damage glyphs on jewelry, though. Also, stuff like major and minor courage now buffs pets when it did not before. I think gear changes are coming, but I also think this will work out OK. Heavy attack builds don't really need a huge magicka pool because sustain is good. So reducing max magicka and increasing spell damage is a pretty quick and easy adjustment. On 21m dummy on PTS, I averaged 44.7k max magicka and 4868 spell damage. I have never been one to run Necropotence + Crafty Alfiq + two 1-piece max mag monster pieces, though. Not sure how much those builds are hurt. To me, they seemed to sacrifice too much crit chance in a PvE meta where Shadow and War Horn are so popular.

Lord-Otto

NMA wrecks your sustain, it's not a good choice. BSW would be better, but Mother's Sorrow is the clear winner on live. MS+FG easily breaches the 80k mark.
Alfiq+Necro is a PvP thing, to max shields. PvE sets typically include more crit boni and more spellpower.

gatekeeper13

Lord-Otto wrote: »

MS+FG easily breaches the 80k mark.

MS+FG+Zaan here and still struggling to get over 50k dps in trial dummy.

Lord-Otto

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

MS+FG easily breaches the 80k mark.

MS+FG+Zaan here and still struggling to get over 50k dps in trial dummy.

Hm. What's the rest of your gear? Skills, rotation?

FearTheRealFett

Awesome Feedback and thank you to those who hit the PTS!!

Now we just need to crack the code for Magicka to Spell Damage ratio🤓