A testing request for burning light rework

sindalstar

Hi guys. I'm not able to use the pts at the moment so could I ask a kind soul to test (or point me to where it was tested):

How exactly does burning light function now?
-whats the tooltip say
-Can it tick more than once in a second -to potentially get it to proc every 2 seconds
-Is damage comparable in a parse?

Getting pvp figures is probably a pain but I applaud anyone for trying

Mayrael

I focused on NB yesterady but I will try to test it today, together with sweeps healing. For now as I understand from description:

Burning Light: This passive has been slightly reworked so that the damage now triggers when you deal damage 4 times within rapid succession to an enemy with an Aedric Spear ability, rather than having a 25% chance to proc per hit. Note that the time window is long enough that abilities that hit at least once every second between will continue to proc this passive.

I think it will be possible to proc it more than once per 1s. What some consider a nerf I see as an opportunity. Now if you would use blazing spear and sweeps/jabs it can reach that 4 hits every 0,667s, meaning it would proc pretty constantly resulting as a huge buff (ofc in perfect conditions), movement and lag can mess it up.

sindalstar

Greatly appreciate it.

Firstmep

Mayrael wrote: »

I focused on NB yesterady but I will try to test it today, together with sweeps healing. For now as I understand from description:

Burning Light: This passive has been slightly reworked so that the damage now triggers when you deal damage 4 times within rapid succession to an enemy with an Aedric Spear ability, rather than having a 25% chance to proc per hit. Note that the time window is long enough that abilities that hit at least once every second between will continue to proc this passive.

I think it will be possible to proc it more than once per 1s. What some consider a nerf I see as an opportunity. Now if you would use blazing spear and sweeps/jabs it can reach that 4 hits every 0,667s, meaning it would proc pretty constantly resulting as a huge buff (ofc in perfect conditions), movement and lag can mess it up.

Well the current CD on burning light is 0.5 seconds, and assuming you are using the spear ulti as well, which gives 1 stack every 2 seconds, this is still a big reduction in overall procs, and thats in an ideal pve situation.
In pvp this is much worse.

West93

Firstmep wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

I focused on NB yesterady but I will try to test it today, together with sweeps healing. For now as I understand from description:

Burning Light: This passive has been slightly reworked so that the damage now triggers when you deal damage 4 times within rapid succession to an enemy with an Aedric Spear ability, rather than having a 25% chance to proc per hit. Note that the time window is long enough that abilities that hit at least once every second between will continue to proc this passive.

I think it will be possible to proc it more than once per 1s. What some consider a nerf I see as an opportunity. Now if you would use blazing spear and sweeps/jabs it can reach that 4 hits every 0,667s, meaning it would proc pretty constantly resulting as a huge buff (ofc in perfect conditions), movement and lag can mess it up.

Well the current CD on burning light is 0.5 seconds, and assuming you are using the spear ulti as well, which gives 1 stack every 2 seconds, this is still a big reduction in overall procs, and thats in an ideal pve situation.
In pvp this is much worse.

Time to delete templar or ask zos for class change token.

Firstmep

West93 wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

I focused on NB yesterady but I will try to test it today, together with sweeps healing. For now as I understand from description:

Burning Light: This passive has been slightly reworked so that the damage now triggers when you deal damage 4 times within rapid succession to an enemy with an Aedric Spear ability, rather than having a 25% chance to proc per hit. Note that the time window is long enough that abilities that hit at least once every second between will continue to proc this passive.

I think it will be possible to proc it more than once per 1s. What some consider a nerf I see as an opportunity. Now if you would use blazing spear and sweeps/jabs it can reach that 4 hits every 0,667s, meaning it would proc pretty constantly resulting as a huge buff (ofc in perfect conditions), movement and lag can mess it up.

Well the current CD on burning light is 0.5 seconds, and assuming you are using the spear ulti as well, which gives 1 stack every 2 seconds, this is still a big reduction in overall procs, and thats in an ideal pve situation.
In pvp this is much worse.

Time to delete templar or ask zos for class change token.

Honestly just make burning light a dot.
A hard hitting short duration dot.
It's applied when hitting an enemy with an aedric spear ability, lasts for 3 seconds and can't be reapplied until it ends.
This would keep templars identity as a pressure class and remove situations where you could randomly spike people due to back to back random BL procs.
This would also make it useful for non jab spam Templar builds, and would be more true to the "Burning Light" name, then the current passive.

montiferus

At first I thought this change was a nerf (which I still believe it is for PVP) but after looking through over 20 parses I've done on my stamplar it is actually a buff. Out of 20 parses I have never even come close to a 25% proc chance (It looks like I average between 20-23%). With this change I am guaranteed 25%.

For PVP its a definite nerf because the chances of landing 4 consecutive jabs consistently is almost nil.

Athyrium93

montiferus wrote: »

At first I thought this change was a nerf (which I still believe it is for PVP) but after looking through over 20 parses I've done on my stamplar it is actually a buff. Out of 20 parses I have never even come close to a 25% proc chance (It looks like I average between 20-23%). With this change I am guaranteed 25%.

For PVP its a definite nerf because the chances of landing 4 consecutive jabs consistently is almost nil.

The part that I think is the nerf is making the cast time longer, instead of being 0.9 seconds its 1 second now, which means the LA window, has well, gone out the window...

I am curious to see how it effects shards though... The BL procs from shards have always been a large portion of my damage (especially on my healer) I'm not sure how that part will pan out...

montiferus

Yeah the cast time is concerning and a total head scratcher. If my LA weave suffers then this will be a significant DPS loss.

pklemming

What gets me, is the fact they 'adjusted' jabs to 'better match the animation'... the 1.5 second animation...

Jabs are now 1 second long, meaning no LA anymore, but not really matching the animation at all.

montiferus

What they need to do is make the animation and the actual skill .9 seconds. If they do that and keep the burning light proc on 4 successive attacks I would be more than happy.

It would however be a nerf for PVP.

ealdwin

I haven't been able to get on the pts yet, but just looking at the numbers, here is the rough effect of the changes to burning light. (Damage numbers from eso-skillbook)

Note: assuming that in "rapid succession" means that the Aedric Spear ability hits has to occur within 1 second of each other.

Puncturing Sweeps/Biting Jabs
With the old Burning Light, there was a 0.0625 chance of proccing twice, a 0.62109375 chance of proccing once, and a 0.31640625 chance of no proc. This meant, on average, Burning Light dealt 356 damage with each cast of Sweeps/Jabs.

With the new Burning Light, that proc is guaranteed, meaning that an extra 477 damage is dealt with each cast of Sweeps/Jabs.

The result is an increase in dps if all 4 hits of sweeps/jabs lands. With the new conditions, failure to land all 4 hits of sweeps/jabs would result in a lost opportunity to proc Burning Light, whereas previously, there was still a chance to proc the passive even if not all 4 hits landed. As mentioned previously, this is good for PVE, but is more punishing in PVP where landing all 4 is more difficult.

Javelin, Charge, and Sun Shield
With the old Burning Light, each of these abilities has a 0.25 chance of proccing the passive, resulting in an average 119.25 damage gained with each cast of these abilities.

With the new Burning Light, unless you are casting these abilities in quick succession, then there is 0 chance of proccing the passive.

The result is most felt by tanks in this case. Since tanks are not usually spamming Sun Shield, they essentially lose any chance of using the Burning Light passive. It's not life or death, but does decrease the amount of dps they can contribute. PVP'ers will also feel this change, and see a decrease in their damage output, especially in the case of ranged Templars, where Javelin might be the only Aedric Spear ability they use.

Spear Shards
With the old Burning Light, there was a 0.25 chance on proccing the passive on the initial hit, as well for each hit over the 10 second duration. This meant, for the duration of the AoE, there was on average an additional 1,311.75 damage dealt.

With the new Burning Light, the passive will proc on each 4th hit. So, on the 3rd second, and on the 7th second of the duration. This means, that for the duration of the AoE, there is an additional 954 damage dealt.

The result is a loss in dps in PVE for magicka templars and healers. For healers, this isn't as impactful, but for dps, the effect will be felt.

Crescent/Empowering Sweep
With the old Burning Light, there was a 0.25 chance on proccing the passive on the initial hit, as well for each hit over the 6 second duration, with 2 seconds between each hit. This meant, for the duration of the skill, there was on average 477 damage dealt.

With the new Burning Light, the passive will not proc for this skill, resulting in no additional damage.

The result is a loss in damage, primarily in PVP where the ultimate is most used.

Overall Effect
Without testing, it's hard to say, and this doesn't factor in the timing changes to jabs/sweeps. But, I would envision that PVE Stamina Templars don't see much change in their damage (maybe a slight decrease). PVE Magicka Templars will feel the effect more, but less in sweeps, and more so in Blazing Spear. Tanks are effectively shut out from the passive, and healers see less of a damage output, so not life or death. The decrease in damage though may push those still using Luminous Shards to look at Orb, can't say for certain. PVP will be where the effect is felt the most, with only one skill being a consistent method of proccing Burning Light.

I get wanting to remove the proc chance, but there have to be better options.

Athyrium93

If they really want Jabs to fit the animation they need to make it 1.5 seconds long and boost the damage by a significant amount since it would throw off LA weaves like crazy, but I would be okay with that, because at least it would match their stated goal of matching the animation.

Making it 1 second long doesn't match the animation any more than 0.9 seconds matches the animation, all it does is nerf a class that didn't need it (at least for PVE no idea about PVP) If they wanted to nerf templars they should have just said it, not this "oh this is a QoL improvement" thing they did....

montiferus

@ealdwin very well put. Completely agree.

qwjr8989_ESO

I think people are kind of missing something big with magplar especially. If you are in pvp using sweeps, toppling charge, and crescent sweep this is potentially a very very big buff to burst. Topple charge. 1. Cresent. 2. Sweeps attack 1 and 2. 4. Cresents first tick. 1. Sweeps final 2 hits. 2 and 3. That is in a very very very little amount of time. Next sweeps will then proc a 2nd one. Almost 2 guranteed burning lights just in the time of 1 and 1/2 sweeps. That's big.

qwjr8989_ESO

A toplling charge, cresent sweeps, and 2 stix is 3 burning light procs all in the matter of 3ish seconds.

sindalstar

Heres hoping somone actually manages to test it and provide some screenshots

The jab talk is nice but I'm trying to get a feel of how burning light 'works' now,

West93

This will not work in pvp, it's very hard to land all 4 jabs while everyone tries to kite you, this change will really hurt pvp templars, pretty strange to make jabs even slower.