Alliance War change to Rapid Maneuvers

dhoward5b14_ESO

Is there a reason you can't just unlock two skills at a level instead of one? Just have Rapids and Vigor both unlock at a low level even if one is unlocked concurrently with another skill. I also am someone who hates being forced to PVP to get skills required for PVE.

Milli_Rabbit

Here's the best option. Make vigor a rank 1 skill with Rapids rank 2.

SnowP

pieratsos wrote: »

No its more like someone gave you a car toy (rapids) and now he took it back and gave u a different toy (vigor)

If you leave out the worth discussion you have quite reached my point.

And you are correct. My second translation is missing the part of the poor locksmith that cuts away some of the stairs to your first floor by exchanging the locks. On all houses. Even the ones that had the car space.
(A level 2 base skill needs more exp. points than a level 1 base skill to reach its end level and not the progress is retained but the experience points. And exp. points above end level are not tracked. But writing all players have to relevel a part of the basic rapids skill to reaccess their morphs when skill points are reset would not find too much cheers by the players.)
- Congratulation on the proper wording herer I missed this point at first but rememberd then an old skill switch in the dragon knight class.

And by the way every translation is wrong in itself. Because if you reduce ESO to its technical aspects you pay for a database front end (client) and access to a server based database shared with automatic programs and other users and some content (written stories). You agree by accepting the contract to use the software that nothing of your input belongs to you. So the world of Tamriel, Monster and Achievements are only in the players imagination.

pieratsos

SnowP wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

No its more like someone gave you a car toy (rapids) and now he took it back and gave u a different toy (vigor)

If you leave out the worth discussion you have quite reached my point.

And you are correct. My second translation is missing the part of the poor locksmith that cuts away some of the stairs to your first floor by exchanging the locks. On all houses. Even the ones that had the car space.
(A level 2 base skill needs more exp. points than a level 1 base skill to reach its end level and not the progress is retained but the experience points. And exp. points above end level are not tracked. But writing all players have to relevel a part of the basic rapids skill to reaccess their morphs when skill points are reset would not find too much cheers by the players.)
- Congratulation on the proper wording herer I missed this point at first but rememberd then an old skill switch in the dragon knight class.

And by the way every translation is wrong in itself. Because if you reduce ESO to its technical aspects you pay for a database front end (client) and access to a server based database shared with automatic programs and other users and some content (written stories). You agree by accepting the contract to use the software that nothing of your input belongs to you. So the world of Tamriel, Monster and Achievements are only in the players imagination.

Except the worth discussion is the point. As is the fact that they gave you something in return. But keep cherry picking words, taking them out of context to make ur point. lol

Bottom line is that many skills thus far have been switched for similar reasons. They are not taking away anything out of anyone. They are just switching the skills. And just because you dont want to do the content to unlock said skill it doesnt mean they are taking it away from you. The skill is there so go get it if u want it. Its really easy to unlock.

Obsidian3

pieratsos wrote: »

SnowP wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Do people seriously find it that hard to do a few BGs to unlock it?

Simply put - yes.
My Chars have acummulated a playtime of more than 16727 hours without the need to do much pvp.

The main point here is that a skill that you aquired is taken away. This is more than taking away the advantage of having completed Mahlstrom on vet and not upgrading the weapons which was a step in the same direction.
This means every achievement in the game can be taken away - so where is now the motivation to achieve anything in this game at all?

This are just facts and a question - no demand no thread so if this also violates the rules than please close the forum as nearly all comments are "demands" to change some part of the game. - Do not take it seriously as this would also be a demand ...

Well it's not exactly taken away from you. It's getting swapped with another ability and it's really nothing like the vma weapons that weren't upgraded. You had to earn vma weapons by doing PvE end game content which to this day is considered very hard for the majority people.

Rapids was essentially given to everyone just by going into cyro at lvl 10. So let's please leave aside the achievement discussion cause spending 15 seconds at ur alliance base and completing one quest by talking to two npc's isn't much of an achievement. No need for hyperboles.

Also it really isn't that hard to get it. Every BG gives like 10k AP even if u lose. With ur alliance rank being that low u won't even face anyone really competent so the experience is going to be at least more enjoyable for someone who is new to pvp and even then u still don't have to actually pvp. Just don't go afk to not get kicked. In like a couple of hours ull have it. I would imagine that a couple of hours aren't really that much for someone with 16k+ hours of playing time.

I'm not saying that there is no better way to make vigor accessible earlier. But hyperboles like achievements taken away and having to do thousands of cyro quests are not really needed.

2 hours...I have 34 toons...I don't want to have to regrind for 68 hours, to get back a skill I have had and enjoyed for six years.

SydneyGrey

This change is a terrible idea. You can put Rapids as the first skill in the Soul Magic line so everybody has access to it. Or you can leave Rapids where it is, and make Vigor unlock at Assault level 2. Either of these solutions is better than the terrible decision to exchange Rapids with Vigor. That would be absolutely awful for most players.

I'm guessing whoever thought of this hasn't created a new character from scratch for YEARS, because they obviously forgot what it's like to have a slow mount.

pieratsos

Obsidian3 wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

SnowP wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Do people seriously find it that hard to do a few BGs to unlock it?

Simply put - yes.
My Chars have acummulated a playtime of more than 16727 hours without the need to do much pvp.

The main point here is that a skill that you aquired is taken away. This is more than taking away the advantage of having completed Mahlstrom on vet and not upgrading the weapons which was a step in the same direction.
This means every achievement in the game can be taken away - so where is now the motivation to achieve anything in this game at all?

This are just facts and a question - no demand no thread so if this also violates the rules than please close the forum as nearly all comments are "demands" to change some part of the game. - Do not take it seriously as this would also be a demand ...

Well it's not exactly taken away from you. It's getting swapped with another ability and it's really nothing like the vma weapons that weren't upgraded. You had to earn vma weapons by doing PvE end game content which to this day is considered very hard for the majority people.

Rapids was essentially given to everyone just by going into cyro at lvl 10. So let's please leave aside the achievement discussion cause spending 15 seconds at ur alliance base and completing one quest by talking to two npc's isn't much of an achievement. No need for hyperboles.

Also it really isn't that hard to get it. Every BG gives like 10k AP even if u lose. With ur alliance rank being that low u won't even face anyone really competent so the experience is going to be at least more enjoyable for someone who is new to pvp and even then u still don't have to actually pvp. Just don't go afk to not get kicked. In like a couple of hours ull have it. I would imagine that a couple of hours aren't really that much for someone with 16k+ hours of playing time.

I'm not saying that there is no better way to make vigor accessible earlier. But hyperboles like achievements taken away and having to do thousands of cyro quests are not really needed.

2 hours...I have 34 toons...I don't want to have to regrind for 68 hours, to get back a skill I have had and enjoyed for six years.

I also want a lot things handed to me now that I don't have much time to play but what am I gonna do. 2 skills were swapped. You have the one you don't have the other. You want them both unlock them just like all skills in the game.

Was there a better way to do this? Yes. But there is no need for drama like "taking my skills that I earned" etc.

majulook

I can see it now new player goes to Cyrodill, find that they cannot travel to battle areas before the battles are over.
But ZOS has a fix for this other players buy the dual mount and taxi them.

Wolf_Eye

majulook wrote: »

I can see it now new player goes to Cyrodill, find that they cannot travel to battle areas before the battles are over.
But ZOS has a fix for this other players buy the dual mount and taxi them.

I can't imagine there'd be many hardcore PVPers who are willing to stop whatever they're doing just to taxi around a newbie. But we'll see when it comes out in the patch.

Valgar0r

It would make more sense to leave Rapid #1 on the assault skills line, but move Vigor #1 on the support skills line and swap it with siege shield.

Ashtaris

After review we have had to edit or remove several posts in this thread, please ensure when having a discussion to keep said discussion civil, constructive, and within the rules. Even if you disapprove of something.

If you didn’t make such unpopular gameplay decisions in the game without discussing it with the player base first, then you wouldn’t need to worry about it.

joseayalac

Cyro will suck on new chars

FinrodMacBeorn

joseayalac wrote: »

Cyro will suck on new chars

Yes - that is the point neglected by all who argue how easy it is to get enough AP for the skill.

Without rapids, you will not keep up with your group, and you will most often come too late for the action after a loooong and lonesome ride. Very fun experience ...

Fortunately, you don't have to go to Cyro: join a battleground, go afk, cash in 7250+AP at least (if your group ends up 3rd) - repeat. And enjoy the forum, if many people adopt this strategy.

Wolf_Eye

FinrodMacBeorn wrote: »

joseayalac wrote: »

Cyro will suck on new chars

Yes - that is the point neglected by all who argue how easy it is to get enough AP for the skill.

Without rapids, you will not keep up with your group, and you will most often come too late for the action after a loooong and lonesome ride. Very fun experience ...

Fortunately, you don't have to go to Cyro: join a battleground, go afk, cash in 7250+AP at least (if your group ends up 3rd) - repeat. And enjoy the forum, if many people adopt this strategy.

And I can guarantee that this is exactly what will happen with BGs when this change drops: players have ALWAYS always striven to maximize rewards while minimizing cost/grind, this will be no exception. It is human nature.

Athyrium93

Everyone keeps saying it's just an hour or 2 to get to assault 5 in battlegrounds... And they might be right if your a PVP player, if your not and take a brand new level 10 toon in, well it can take upwards of 5 hours.... I would know because I did it yesterday, between queues and just being awful at it it took 5 hours and 7 minutes to get to assault 5... I couldn't imagine doing that on multiple toons

Barbaran

Just go play like 3-4 battlegrounds matches, get your rapids and call it a day.

vgabor

Barbaran wrote: »

Just go play like 3-4 battlegrounds matches, get your rapids and call it a day.

Just go play like 3-4 battlegrounds matches, get your vigor and call it a day.

Anyron

Kurat wrote: »

Putting vigor first is great idea. As mainly pve player, why should I be forced to pvp to lvl6 every time I'm leveling new toon.

And why should I be forced to play pve - undaunted - every time i make new pvp toon

DraconicFalcon

I am in support of this change. StamDKs and Stamplars have no good heal to use at all while they are levelling.

Luede

they swap skills to sell more skill lines in the crown shop

Luede

DraconicFalcon wrote: »

I am in support of this change. StamDKs and Stamplars have no good heal to use at all while they are levelling.

how long do u play and how good do u know the skill lines?

Rikumaru

I want my undaunted passives on level 1 too.

johnebrown

Bah - is there really no way to delete your own comment?

johnebrown

pieratsos wrote: »

No its more like someone gave you a car toy (rapids) and now he took it back and gave u a different toy (vigor) and tells u if u also want the old toy u need to pay 5 cents, cause thats the real world evaluation for the 5 seconds u spent into ur alliance base to get rapids compared to the hundreds of hours people spent doing end game content.

You didnt earn rapids. It was just freely handed to you. The reality is that u are talking about an ability being locked behind a PVP skill line. [snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting]

I don't want a different toy - I want the one I earned (54 times), and unlike some other skills it's not being replaced by a similar toy. And rapids wasn't given to me - I was given an option to earn it, and I took that option 54 times. For pvper's or really skilled playes maybe you can re-earn it in two hours, but it is more like 5 hours for me. Out of my 54 subbed toons, most are level 2 Alliance. Only 4 or 5 are level 5. So approximately 50 toons, and even if I could do it in 2 hours, it would still be 100 hours to level them all to get back what I had earned. let's see... If I played 4 hours a day every day, that would take close to a month.
Hmmm. Not a minor inconvenience. Nope I won't do it. I'll just keep my main account - I really don't need three accounts, It was fun making lot's of toon variants but not with this change & it won't hurt them to lose two accounts.

Oakiyo

The real problem with vigor currently is the amount of alliance point you need to farm to unlock it. Reaching Rank 5 in the assault skill line require almost 100k AP. And you need lees than 10k for rank 3.

So the real fix to the current issue with stam not having heal would be to decrease the required rank to obtain vigor. Ideally to rank 3, so you just need 1 bg or a couple of weekly reward to unlock it.

Fur_like_snow

Two seater mounts are coming just have a friend UBER you around Cyrodiil till you rank up.

Atherakhia

Please keep Rapid Maneuver as the first slot under assault and instead remove one of the numerous awful abilities under the support tree and make vigor the fist support skill. This will then open up a new assault ability that you can either move the awful support skill to (ie make Siege Shield increase siege damage by 10% in addition to reducing the damage siege takes by 50%) or come up with another assault oriented skill.

But please... Vigor AND Rapid Maneuvers need to be in the first slot.

pieratsos

johnebrown wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

No its more like someone gave you a car toy (rapids) and now he took it back and gave u a different toy (vigor) and tells u if u also want the old toy u need to pay 5 cents, cause thats the real world evaluation for the 5 seconds u spent into ur alliance base to get rapids compared to the hundreds of hours people spent doing end game content.

You didnt earn rapids. It was just freely handed to you. The reality is that u are talking about an ability being locked behind a PVP skill line. [snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting]

I don't want a different toy - I want the one I earned (54 times), and unlike some other skills it's not being replaced by a similar toy. And rapids wasn't given to me - I was given an option to earn it, and I took that option 54 times. For pvper's or really skilled playes maybe you can re-earn it in two hours, but it is more like 5 hours for me. Out of my 54 subbed toons, most are level 2 Alliance. Only 4 or 5 are level 5. So approximately 50 toons, and even if I could do it in 2 hours, it would still be 100 hours to level them all to get back what I had earned. let's see... If I played 4 hours a day every day, that would take close to a month.
Hmmm. Not a minor inconvenience. Nope I won't do it. I'll just keep my main account - I really don't need three accounts, It was fun making lot's of toon variants but not with this change & it won't hurt them to lose two accounts.

No its not 5 hours. Skill has nothing to do with earning AP. It's literally just a few BG matches, win or lose the AP is pouring in.

The skill is locked behind a PVP skill line. The fact that u are complaining about non wanting to pvp at all to get it shows exactly that it was essentially given to u. Not earned it.

[snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting]

johnebrown

No its not 5 hours. Skill has nothing to do with earning AP. It's literally just a few BG matches, win or lose the AP is pouring in.

The skill is locked behind a PVP skill line. The fact that u are complaining about non wanting to pvp at all to get it shows exactly that it was essentially given to u. Not earned it.

[snip]

1) If I had to do something I did not want to do to get something (go to Cyrodiil and do anything), then I earned it. [snip]

2) You don't get to define what constitutes real playing for me. I wasn't judging any other player, don't know why you think you are the authority to publicly judge me. I have my own reasons for having that many toons & I'm the one who payed for them. Just because I have 50 toons doesn't mean I need to play them all in any set period of time. I was just offering my opinion about the game and what I didn't like - I though that was one of the reasons for the forum.

[Edited to remove Baiting]

DarcyMardin

People keep saying stuff like “it’s just a few BG matches.” So, for someone like me who has never even been in a BG and sucks at PvP, I should just go into a bunch of BG matches, get myself killed, lose the match, and collect AP? How is that fair to the other 3 players I get grouped with?? I would of course *try* to fight, but past PvP experience have shown that I’m terrible at PvP. Again, how is that fair to the players on my team who actually *want* to win their matches?

I just started a third account (because I’ve got this alt obsession). I have zero CP and 3 brand new about-to-be level 10 alts. Their horses barely move above a walk. I need Rapids, and it’ll be the first thing I do at lvl 10–go to Cyrodiil and get that skill. After which I will do a lot of things in the game that in no way involve PvP. But if this change goes live, I’ll be doing it at a crawl for at least 2 months until my horse speed is maxed.

As many others have already suggested, move Rapids to the first skill in support instead of swapping it with Vigor. Move Vigor to the first skill in Whatever the other Alliance line is called. Easy. Done (unless there’s some weirdness with the code). Everybody’s happy.