Crazy NoCP "requirements" for PvP

Nick_Balza

I've seen many posts about "what dmg/pen/magicka/resistrances/health" should have any character for being capable to perform well in NoCP PvP events.
In sum:

• 17k penetration
• 10k effective spell damage
• 20k HP
• 30k Magicka as minimum
• 25k+ resistances

I was abusing ESO Build Editor for few days and didn't find any combination of skills/sets to achieve at least half of "requirements".
Popular builds from Alcast/Dottz are absolute garbage even on the paper. In combat it looks just pathetic.

The question is: how people are achieving such results and how to avoid sacrificing some vital things like resistances/health?

ItsNotLiving

you dont need all that bro

FirmamentOfStars

What are those requirements?

A decent magicka PvP build has:

-between 7 and 12k penetration. Bit more than 2k from a sharpened weapon, 5k if light armor is used, another 5k from major breach (elemental drain) and can get additional 3-5k from sets like spinner or stuhn

- 30kish max magicka. Thats pretty much the no cp value of a build with 3 arcane jewelries, some magicka and prismatic enchants and one or two max magicka set boni. Some classes like sorcerers rely more on magicka and should have a pool of 35k+

- in no cp PvP you reach like 22k health easely in light armor and some prismatic enchants. 25k is already a good amount and in heavy armor more can be achieved.

- light armor builds normally have like 16-18k physical and a bit more magical resistance with their armor buff up. Dks and templars some more magical resistance. In heavy armor 20k+ is easy to get. Depending on the sets more can be achieved (pariah is an easy way to acquire high resistances).

- 10k effective spellpower probably is a value only achieved with cps. Without them 7k is already quite a lot if i remember correctly. Effective spellpower is a combination of spelldamage, max magicka, crit and crit damage plus penetration. Mostly its a very vague number, so i wouldnt really focus too much on it, especially since crit and crit damage plays a lot into it, even though they are mitigated by critical resistance a a lot in PvP. If i remember corrently, with like 30k magicka, 40% crit and like 4k spelldamage and decent penetration you get like 7k there.

StarOfElyon

I think the key is to build defensively and then let procs do the damage for you.

I can only guess because I don't play that way and I don't have a great pvp build - only a mid-to-low-tier pvp build. I bounce between these combinations on my Altmer magplar:

Julianos + Seducer + Balorgh

Julianos + Eternal Vigor + Balorgh

Innate Axiom + Eternal Vigor + Balorgh

I know that 9 out of 10 people will ask, "Why aren't you using New Moon?" It's because i have trouble with sustain. Also, the fact that New Moon is so BIS shows a problem with the game - there are so many older sets that have become obsolete because they can't compete with the new stuff that comes out (stares in Lamia's Song set).

ImSoPro

Been rocking out in NMA and Desert Rose for awhile now with minimal issues. NMA with a sharpened staff and lover stone mundus plus the light armor bonus gives plenty of penetration. Just started running balorghs to get the most of the vamp transformation too so that stacks it even higher.

I wouldn’t worry about 10k effective spell power in “no-cp” because as someone states above that sounds like a number achieved “with” cp. In no CP I sit at 32k magicka and 23k hp buffed. I think have like 18k physical resistance and 24 or 25k spell resistance. You should put your build together first then test it and see where you’re at. That’s what I do. Set synergy is the main thing to me.

YandereGirlfriend

As others have said, these numbers seem pretty arbitrary.

A missing aspect of this is your class and playstyle.

For example, if you have high mobility, you generally need fewer Resistances since you are avoiding damage rather than soaking it. If you have your burst combo well-practiced then you will probably need less raw damage since you are delivering the damage that you do have more efficiently.

Also, sustain is a huge aspect of non-CP that is basically ignored in CP due to all of the free bonuses there. It'll be different for every class but you need a certain minimum amount. Similarly to the above, you can get away with less sustain if you are more efficient at killing since fights will end faster and thus require fewer overall resources.

But I would simply play your class and playstyle combination first to get a feel for what things you actually need versus what a build website recommends.

Dusk_Coven

Sad when people come to ESO and end up feeling they have to play math instead of playing a power fantasy / character.
In other games, PvP or otherwise, it starts with "this character is cool, I want to play it". Not here.
Game is screwed up.

Tammany

All good players (Heresya, Malcoml, etc) are not even closer to these numbers.

Nick_Balza

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Sad when people come to ESO and end up feeling they have to play math instead of playing a power fantasy / character.
In other games, PvP or otherwise, it starts with "this character is cool, I want to play it". Not here.
Game is screwed up.

Yeah, dude. That's what am I talking about. I am getting pissed off, when someone votes to kick someone because of "LOW DPS", bad tanking, low tank hp and telling all that nonsense I was saying on the start of thread. Home made pro gamers in casual game are making casual players feel uncomfortable. People just wanna chill out and spend some time after work.

out51d3r

Builds with stats like that in nocp are pretty rare, and typically involve using sub-optimal skills that grant passive stat bonuses rather than useful active abilities. I run a pretty high stat build, and I have roughly:

Penetration: not sure, no where close to 17k tho
Effective weapon damage: 10.5k
HP: 23k
Stam: 32k
Resist: 19k

You're not going to hit 25k resist in nocp unless you're wearing heavy armor or you're using a 5 piece armor bonus(and if you are doing that, you probably aren't going to hit 10k effective weapon damage).

5cript

I am confused that nobody mentions sustain.
Hf with all your damage with 900 regeneration...

And good luck with cc with 600 stam regen as mag.

MincVinyl

One of the talked about proposals a while back was to remove cp from PvP and just add the base stat boost for slotting cp once you hit lvl50. The sustain from cp is still an issue, so likely some % cost reduction or regen would be tacked on with that.

FirmamentOfStars

5cript wrote: »

I am confused that nobody mentions sustain.
Hf with all your damage with 900 regeneration...

And good luck with cc with 600 stam regen as mag.

600 stam regen on a magicka character is not really a problem if you play wisely though. Its more than enough sustain, if you block ir dodge the most important and heavy hits, then you are left with enough stamina to break free every 7 seconds.

MerguezMan

1) These seem to be values from 1 year ago. Beware when you look around the internet, that the guides you're watching are not up-to-date with current standards in game.

2) Such values are to be considered "absolute best" goal. You may aim for it, but don't consider they are "minimum requirement".

3) I doubt you tried "any combination". Did you include world buffs like Aileid wells in Cyrodiil ? Group buffs from other players skills/sets ? With the right setup, small group play can be way more potent than solo or disordered crowd play.

4) Optimal stat distribution may vary depending on available skills (and your current class), if you play Bg or Cyro. The best setup is always the same though : it's the one you feel comfortable with.

Having 30k magicka and 17k penetration sure is fine, but your effective damage is 0 if you can't stay alive.
Give a try to sets you like, and change or adjust if you feel something is missing, whether it be damage, survivability or sustain.
Also, accept right now some player are more experienced and will use tactics that can kill you. Fast.
You may counter those using dedicated skills or tactics, or even sets, but be aware other players can swap skills or sets too.

ThePedge

Nick_Balza wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Sad when people come to ESO and end up feeling they have to play math instead of playing a power fantasy / character.
In other games, PvP or otherwise, it starts with "this character is cool, I want to play it". Not here.
Game is screwed up.

Yeah, dude. That's what am I talking about. I am getting pissed off, when someone votes to kick someone because of "LOW DPS", bad tanking, low tank hp and telling all that nonsense I was saying on the start of thread. Home made pro gamers in casual game are making casual players feel uncomfortable. People just wanna chill out and spend some time after work.

This thread is about PvP? There are no tanks, bad tanking and low DPS is PvP.

And I would like to know where you got your values from. Seems like you just plucked them from different threads and combined them [snip]

[edited for baiting]

russelmmendoza

Nick_Balza wrote: »

I've seen many posts about "what dmg/pen/magicka/resistrances/health" should have any character for being capable to perform well in NoCP PvP events.
In sum:

• 17k penetration
• 10k effective spell damage
• 20k HP
• 30k Magicka as minimum
• 25k+ resistances

I was abusing ESO Build Editor for few days and didn't find any combination of skills/sets to achieve at least half of "requirements".
Popular builds from Alcast/Dottz are absolute garbage even on the paper. In combat it looks just pathetic.

The question is: how people are achieving such results and how to avoid sacrificing some vital things like resistances/health?

Wooaahh!!!

I guess this is why I never win in bg matches.
I only have,
Light armor for penetration.
5 to 6k effective spell damafe, max I can do.
20k hp.
30k magicka.
20k damage resist. 25k spell resist..

I am such a noob, guess there is no way for me to kill those disgusting unkillable in bg matches.

Thraben

Nick_Balza wrote: »

I've seen many posts about "what dmg/pen/magicka/resistrances/health" should have any character for being capable to perform well in NoCP PvP events.
In sum:

• 17k penetration
• 10k effective spell damage
• 20k HP
• 30k Magicka as minimum
• 25k+ resistances

I was abusing ESO Build Editor for few days and didn't find any combination of skills/sets to achieve at least half of "requirements".
Popular builds from Alcast/Dottz are absolute garbage even on the paper. In combat it looks just pathetic.

The question is: how people are achieving such results and how to avoid sacrificing some vital things like resistances/health?

1) Those stats are rather obviously AFTER self- buffs, Balorgh, and when Masser and Secunda meet.

2) That being said, chances are rather high that someone who claims these stats are "needed" is either a Bombblade, or a total noob. 20k health should be a red flag in all other cases.

Dr_Ganknstein

If your guild or group has these type of requirements, just get the hp right and lie about the rest 😆

relentless_turnip

There are no black and white rules for an effective pvp build.

You need a combination, rather attrition or burst based that is capable of killing someone and enough mitigation and healing to have the opportunity to use it. You rather need an escape mechanic(mist form, streak, cloak etc..) or enough bulk to withstand a lot of damage stamden, stamcros, magdk and stamdk's tend to be on this side of the spectrum.

What class are you playing? someone could probably recommend a build to help you find your feet that you could adapt over time to your own playstyle.

Araneae6537

This thread is already a bit old for anything combat related and with the major changes brought by the upcoming patch, will probably be totally obsolete.

Goregrinder

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Sad when people come to ESO and end up feeling they have to play math instead of playing a power fantasy / character.
In other games, PvP or otherwise, it starts with "this character is cool, I want to play it". Not here.
Game is screwed up.

Any MMORPG with PVP has a meta, with people playing maths to try and reach the top 1%. WoW, GW2, etc you name it. The good news is, in ESO the meta isn't as linear since it uses a horizontal progression system as opposed to WoW's (and it's clones) vertical gear progression system. This is not new, and won't ever go away.