Opt out of Sharing Player Data With Third Parties

blackweb

I have been playing ESO since closed beta. One of the best things about ESO as always been the ESO player community. For the most part, ESO has had a friendly, helpful and relatively non-toxic player community. I The source of the toxic elitism in WoW classic is the website warcraftlogs.com. That website exposes every wow players in-game data to the world. It displays everything wow players do in game to anyone who wants to see it for free. Elitist guilds in wow use the data to create cookie-cutter character builds, the essence of elitism. WoW players are then told that if they want to raid, they must spec, gear and play their characters exactly as the elitist bullies tell them to or they will not be allowed to raid. This happens even in PuG groups in WoW classic. Fortunately Blizzard provides a way in wow accounts to for wow players to opt-out of sharing of player data with third parties which I have done. I can now play wow in peace without being subjected to unwanted scrutiny by annoying elitists. This is not the case in ESO.

I returned to ESO to escape from the toxic elitism of WoW Classic and WoW Retail and experience the ESO community that I remembered. That community is for the most part gone, at least in ESO end game (vet and DLC dungeons and trials). I joined two ESO trial guilds and was immediately subjected to the same condescending, demeaning, bullying elitism as I had just experienced in wow. The ESO elitist kept talking about "logs". I soon discovered that there was an ESO version of warcraftlogs.com, esologs.com. Unfortunately, Zenimax Online Services does not provide a way for players to opt out of sharing their data with third parties like esologs.com. I am an ESO plus member, I see no reason why ZOS would not provide this functionality to every ESO player, plus member or not. Few players like being told how to play, spec or gear their characters and I am one of them.

ZOS, please provide your player base with a way to opt-out of sharing our data with third parties in the ESO account interface.

Nerdrage9000

Agreed 1000%. The ability to rank one another has been the primary reason for the downfall of WoW. Just look at all the issues with raider.io

Ranking other people in the game does nothing but break community and take away the fun of it all.

Metrics belong at work - not video games. (Unless you are a developer or project manager - but not for the players)

blackweb

Nerdrage9000 wrote: »

Agreed 1000%. The ability to rank one another has been the primary reason for the downfall of WoW. Just look at all the issues with raider.io

Ranking other people in the game does nothing but break community and take away the fun of it all.

Metrics belong at work - not video games. (Unless you are a developer or project manager - but not for the players)

It is one thing to be ranked volontarily, because we want to be ranked. It is another to be spied upon and ranked against our will.

VaranisArano

This was a request when ESOLogs was first implemented. The answer given by the creator was that the data is all or nothing. If someone opts out, the data set just doesn't work.

This is, incidentally, not that different from using the Combat Metrics add-on. A trial group can require you to post your combat parse or gear and kick you if you don't comply. Gear and build requirements well pre-date ESO Logs. There's no requirement that any group let you raid with them if you don't meet their standards and, again, that was always true, well before ESO Logs.

The accommodation ZOS did make was to make us all anonymous by default. So while a trial guild might require you to deanonymize yourself for training purposes (which you can refuse and they can kick you for refusing if they desire), none of our data is being published attached to identifying info without our consent.

In short, while I certainly understand not liking the toxic environment that can prevail in some competitive end game PVE groups, ESO Logs didn't actually change what those groups could require of players in the first place. Where ESO Logs can be abused, it can be abused in the same manner as the allowed Combat Metrics. Indeed, toxic groups were toxic before ESO Logs. That's a guild problem, not a Logs problem.

Finally, folks can correct me if I'm wrong now, but I recall the overwhelming opinion of ESO Logs when it launched was that it was primarily used to gather helpful data for better guild runs and very rarely abused.

Edit: if anyone wants to go back and read ZOS' original intent and the posts of the ESO Logs developer Kihra, the official thread is linked below. Do note that much of the conversation is about how originally we were NOT anonymous by default, which ZOS thankfully reversed.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/467949/encounter-logging/p1

idk

I misread. OP is complaining because raid guilds are requiring the sharing of DPS. A good raid guild and raid team will make such demands and it is wise to do so.

OP should find some raid guilds and groups more to their liking.

VaranisArano

Gilvoth wrote: »

Darkenarlol wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

[Quoted post was removed]

What's happening in real life that's specifically a problem with ESO Logs?

Every ESO player is anonymous by default, so no identifying info is shared with ESO Logs without the player's consent.
Nor is the requirement that players build, gear up, or parse according to their guild's requirements exclusive to or caused by ESO Logs. No one is entitled to a raid spot, after all.

blackweb

Darkenarlol wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

[snip] This posts illustrates why the opt out is needed.

ESO is a game not a job. Joining a group in ESO should not require a digital resume.

[Edited to remove Baiting]

blackweb

VaranisArano wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

Darkenarlol wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

[Quoted post was removed]

What's happening in real life that's specifically a problem with ESO Logs?

Every ESO player is anonymous by default, so no identifying info is shared with ESO Logs without the player's consent.
Nor is the requirement that players build, gear up, or parse according to their guild's requirements exclusive to or caused by ESO Logs. No one is entitled to a raid spot, after all.

This is not true. As I understand it, if we are grouped with or nearby someone who has the esologs app and is collecting and uploading data, their data can be collected and uploaded without their consent.

blackweb

VaranisArano wrote: »

This was a request when ESOLogs was first implemented. The answer given by the creator was that the data is all or nothing. If someone opts out, the data set just doesn't work.

This is, incidentally, not that different from using the Combat Metrics add-on. A trial group can require you to post your combat parse or gear and kick you if you don't comply. Gear and build requirements well pre-date ESO Logs. There's no requirement that any group let you raid with them if you don't meet their standards and, again, that was always true, well before ESO Logs.

The accommodation ZOS did make was to make us all anonymous by default. So while a trial guild might require you to deanonymize yourself for training purposes (which you can refuse and they can kick you for refusing if they desire), none of our data is being published attached to identifying info without our consent.

In short, while I certainly understand not liking the toxic environment that can prevail in some competitive end game PVE groups, ESO Logs didn't actually change what those groups could require of players in the first place. Where ESO Logs can be abused, it can be abused in the same manner as the allowed Combat Metrics. Indeed, toxic groups were toxic before ESO Logs. That's a guild problem, not a Logs problem.

Finally, folks can correct me if I'm wrong now, but I recall the overwhelming opinion of ESO Logs when it launched was that it was primarily used to gather helpful data for better guild runs and very rarely abused.

Edit: if anyone wants to go back and read ZOS' original intent and the posts of the ESO Logs developer Kihra, the official thread is linked below. Do note that much of the conversation is about how originally we were NOT anonymous by default, which ZOS thankfully reversed.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/467949/encounter-logging/p1

The ESO end-game pve environment has become so toxic that I am considering leaving the game until the opt out option is provided by ZOS. Obnoxious, condescending, toxic elitism has become the rule in ESO, not the exception.

I have been healing in ESO since the beginning. I am a very good healer. The environment has become so toxic that I never got to run a single trial or vet DLC with the two trial guilds I joined. They would not even invite me without an eso logs digital resume.

I DO NOT CONSENT TO ANY OF MY ESO IN-GAME DATA BEING RELEASED TO ANY THIRD PARTY FOR ANY REASON.

I resent not being given the opportunity to opt out of the release of my in game data to third parties.

Fur_like_snow

Darkenarlol wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

[snip]

Btw addons already exist that tracks ones self DPS so with usually only one other DPS in group it’s easy to tell who’s pulling most of the weight with or without eso logs.

[Edited to remove Baiting]

blackweb

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

Darkenarlol wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

[snip]

Btw addons already exist that tracks ones self DPS so with usually only one other DPS in group it’s easy to tell who’s pulling most of the weight with or without eso logs.

Most people play for ESO for fun, not to be logged on some third-party website where their data can be misused or abused without their consent.

If someone is having fun playing ESO in a way that some would consider badly, that is their prerogative. If we want to be filthy casuals, that is our choice. ESO is a game, not a job.

VaranisArano

blackweb wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

Darkenarlol wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

[Quoted post was removed]

What's happening in real life that's specifically a problem with ESO Logs?

Every ESO player is anonymous by default, so no identifying info is shared with ESO Logs without the player's consent.
Nor is the requirement that players build, gear up, or parse according to their guild's requirements exclusive to or caused by ESO Logs. No one is entitled to a raid spot, after all.

This is not true. As I understand it, if we are grouped with someone who has the esologs app and is collecting and uploading data, their data can be collected and uploaded without their consent.

I said: "Every ESO player is anonymous by default, so no identifying info is shared with ESO Logs without the player's consent."

Your combat data is not identifying info. Your sets and build are not identifying info that someone not in your group can track back to you. It may be on the site as part of someone else's log, but the site doesn't attribute it to you in anyway if you are anonymous.

Now, if you are part of a trial group who asks everyone to opt in and you remain anonymous, they'll know who's the odd man out. But that's true of refusing to post your Combat Metric parse, do a training dummy parse, or refusing to discuss your build with them as well. If that gets toxic, that's a problem with your guildmates, not an ESO Logs problem.

Fur_like_snow

blackweb wrote: »

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

Darkenarlol wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

[snip]

Btw addons already exist that tracks ones self DPS so with usually only one other DPS in group it’s easy to tell who’s pulling most of the weight with or without eso logs.

Most people play for ESO for fun, not to be logged on some third-party website where their data can be misused or abused without their consent.

If someone is having fun playing ESO in a way that some would consider badly, that is their prerogative. If we want to be filthy casuals, that is our choice. ESO is a game, not a job.

I can track my own DPS with an addon from that point it tells me what % of the bosses health I dealt in a fight. it’s easy to see who did what within the group from a DPS perspective. What exactly would you like ZoS to do?

Darkenarlol

people who plays "for fun" have no issues with being kicked/not invited from top score running groups =D

they just group up with equal people and play for fun with no requirements or softened ones in their own pre-mades


btw noone still didn't gave any resons to hide their logs besides the ones i've mentioned so...

blackweb

VaranisArano wrote: »

blackweb wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

Darkenarlol wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

[Quoted post was removed]

What's happening in real life that's specifically a problem with ESO Logs?

Every ESO player is anonymous by default, so no identifying info is shared with ESO Logs without the player's consent.
Nor is the requirement that players build, gear up, or parse according to their guild's requirements exclusive to or caused by ESO Logs. No one is entitled to a raid spot, after all.

This is not true. As I understand it, if we are grouped with someone who has the esologs app and is collecting and uploading data, their data can be collected and uploaded without their consent.

I said: "Every ESO player is anonymous by default, so no identifying info is shared with ESO Logs without the player's consent."

Your combat data is not identifying info. Your sets and build are not identifying info that someone not in your group can track back to you. It may be on the site as part of someone else's log, but the site doesn't attribute it to you in anyway if you are anonymous.

Now, if you are part of a trial group who asks everyone to opt in and you remain anonymous, they'll know who's the odd man out. But that's true of refusing to post your Combat Metric parse, do a training dummy parse, or refusing to discuss your build with them as well. If that gets toxic, that's a problem with your guildmates, not an ESO Logs problem.

Of course it is identifying by default. If we are the only person in a group who wishes to remain anonymous, we are by definition singling ourselves out for ridicule and abuse. Most of us just want to play the game and have fun in whatever way we wish to play it, without millions of people looking over our shoulders. This is a violation of our privacy as eso players and it should end by ZOS giving us an opt out of all sharing of our data with third parties. We should not have to explain to obnoxious, toxic elitists why we are marked anonymous in a log when we did not consent to be logged.

I was told by both trial guilds that I joined that if I wished to remain anonymous, I would not be allowed to run trials with them. I never ran a trial or a dungeon with them. This would never have happened before esologs.com.

idk

I misread. OP is complaining because raid guilds are requiring the sharing of DPS. A good raid guild and raid team will make such demands and it is wise to do so.

OP should find some raid guilds and groups more to their liking.

blackweb

Darkenarlol wrote: »

people who plays "for fun" have no issues with being kicked/not invited from top score running groups =D

they just group up with equal people and play for fun with no requirements or softened ones in their own pre-mades


btw noone still didn't gave any resons to hide their logs besides the ones i've mentioned so...

This kind of thinking is why there needs to be an opt-out in the eso account interface. Feel free to log yourselves and log your guilds if they consent to it. Have fun going for top score, but leave us out of it if we do not consent to have our ESO in-game data released to third parties.

Fur_like_snow

I was told by both trial guilds that I joined that if I wished to remain anonymous, I would not be allowed to run trials with them.

Why do you feel entitled to a raid group if you can’t/won’t meet their standards? Why should the game have to change because you can’t/won’t change your gameplay?

Darkenarlol

don't play with them then

form your own guild and trial group with prohibited dps addons (gl on that)


but instead you blame people in other guilds and call everybody "toxic elitists" which is kinda...toxic

blackweb

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

I was told by both trial guilds that I joined that if I wished to remain anonymous, I would not be allowed to run trials with them.

Why do you feel entitled to a raid group of you can’t/won’t meet their standards? Why should the game have to change because can’t/won’t change your gameplay?

The fact that you asked that question means that I cannot help you understand. We had parsers before esologs.com. We had parser addons but it was up to each individual player to install the addon and collect their own parse then share it manually with others.

How I play the game is none of your business unless I make it so. How I spec, gear or play ESO is not your concern.

I DO NOT CONSENT TO SHARE MY DATA TO YOU OR ANYONE ELSE THROUGH ANY THIRD PARTY.

RogueShark

Find new guilds.
I don't raid as much as I used to, but I still cleared vKA HM not long after release and go to vet trials, hardmode runs, achievement runs, etc fairly regular.
Only time logs are ever brought up are to see where things have been going wrong, check uptimes, and generally for self-improvement.

That being said, raid leads WILL tell people what they should be running. Tanks and healers in what sets, DPS if they need to run some sort of buff or utility, etc. This has nothing to do with logs and everything to do with efficiency.

If you're in a guild that's heavy-breathing over logs and you aren't interested in that sort of high-end play, bail. There are much more lax groups and guilds out there.
If you have a problem with being asked or told in general what to wear, especially as a support, then... idk. Understand why it's efficient or, again, look for a more casual group.

Gythral

Now I wonder how would ZOS feel, if forced to share server data with the same third-parties
user key presses
server actual actions
discrepancy

deaths due to asleep hamsters
etc...

idk

blackweb wrote: »

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

I was told by both trial guilds that I joined that if I wished to remain anonymous, I would not be allowed to run trials with them.

Why do you feel entitled to a raid group of you can’t/won’t meet their standards? Why should the game have to change because can’t/won’t change your gameplay?

The fact that you asked that question means that I cannot help you understand. We had parsers before esologs.com. We had parser addons but it was up to each individual player to install the addon and collect their own parse then share it manually with others.

How I play the game is none of your business unless I make it so. How I spec, gear or play ESO is not your concern.

I DO NOT CONSENT TO SHARE MY DATA TO YOU OR ANYONE ELSE THROUGH ANY THIRD PARTY.

Actually, you probably did. I would expect there is something in the ToS we all agreed to that covers this.

VaranisArano

blackweb wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

This was a request when ESOLogs was first implemented. The answer given by the creator was that the data is all or nothing. If someone opts out, the data set just doesn't work.

This is, incidentally, not that different from using the Combat Metrics add-on. A trial group can require you to post your combat parse or gear and kick you if you don't comply. Gear and build requirements well pre-date ESO Logs. There's no requirement that any group let you raid with them if you don't meet their standards and, again, that was always true, well before ESO Logs.

The accommodation ZOS did make was to make us all anonymous by default. So while a trial guild might require you to deanonymize yourself for training purposes (which you can refuse and they can kick you for refusing if they desire), none of our data is being published attached to identifying info without our consent.

In short, while I certainly understand not liking the toxic environment that can prevail in some competitive end game PVE groups, ESO Logs didn't actually change what those groups could require of players in the first place. Where ESO Logs can be abused, it can be abused in the same manner as the allowed Combat Metrics. Indeed, toxic groups were toxic before ESO Logs. That's a guild problem, not a Logs problem.

Finally, folks can correct me if I'm wrong now, but I recall the overwhelming opinion of ESO Logs when it launched was that it was primarily used to gather helpful data for better guild runs and very rarely abused.

Edit: if anyone wants to go back and read ZOS' original intent and the posts of the ESO Logs developer Kihra, the official thread is linked below. Do note that much of the conversation is about how originally we were NOT anonymous by default, which ZOS thankfully reversed.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/467949/encounter-logging/p1

The ESO end-game pve environment has become so toxic that I am considering leaving the game until the opt out option is provided by ZOS. Obnoxious, condescending, toxic elitism has become the rule in ESO, not the exception.

I have been healing in ESO since the beginning. I am a very good healer. The environment has become so toxic that I never got to run a single trial or vet DLC with the two trial guilds I joined. They would not even invite me without an eso logs digital resume.

I DO NOT CONSENT TO ANY OF MY ESO IN-GAME DATA BEING RELEASED TO ANY THIRD PARTY FOR ANY REASON.

I resent not being given the opportunity to opt out of the release of my in game data to third parties.

Let's try to approach this constructively.

It seems like two trial guilds don't just accept new healers blindly. They appear to have an evaluation procedure for new healers that uses ESO Logs, probably because ESO Logs tracks healing and buffs much better than Combat Metrics does. Chances are, this mirrors their expectations for regular guild runs as ESO Logs is often used to target areas for improvement. Fortunately, ESO Logs does have an option where guild logs can be kept private within the guild - would they be willing to use that option?

This is not toxic, provided their expectations for healers are reasonable. Ultimately, guild leaders are putting together a team activity in order to get the best experience for everyone on the team. Depending on the guild that does mean adhering to certain requirements, including being willing to work on progression goals. ESO Logs remains the best way to do that in PVE on PC.

However, since you are uncomfortable with ESO Logs, you might consider asking them about alternatives when you ***. So you can remain anonymous, since opting out entirely is not an option.
Would they be willing to accept certain achievements as preliminary proof of your experience?
Would they be willing to let you do one run of a pledge vet DLC dungeon or a trial as a "trial run" to show that you know what you are doing?
Would they accept you remaining anonymous so your identifying info is never on the site and they can still look at the combat data?

Truth is, the trial guilds have a greater responsibility to their current members than to a new healer walking in off the street asking for a position on the team. You can suggest alternatives, but at a minimum I expect any serious trial guild to want to know your gear and build.


In any case, you are hardly being shut out of the PVE end game. While it may not be your preference, there are plenty of options for PUGing trials or using Groupfinder or recruiting in zone chat to do vet DLC dungeons.

blackweb

RogueShark wrote: »

Find new guilds.
I don't raid as much as I used to, but I still cleared vKA HM not long after release and go to vet trials, hardmode runs, achievement runs, etc fairly regular.
Only time logs are ever brought up are to see where things have been going wrong, check uptimes, and generally for self-improvement.

That being said, raid leads WILL tell people what they should be running. Tanks and healers in what sets, DPS if they need to run some sort of buff or utility, etc. This has nothing to do with logs and everything to do with efficiency.

If you're in a guild that's heavy-breathing over logs and you aren't interested in that sort of high-end play, bail. There are much more lax groups and guilds out there.
If you have a problem with being asked or told in general what to wear, especially as a support, then... idk. Understand why it's efficient or, again, look for a more casual group.

The only reason I am playing wow again is because of the Blizzard opt out. If an opt out in the account interface is not provided in ESO, I will be taking my leave of the game. After 15 years of high end raiding and PvP, I have had enough of toxic elitism. It is a game, it is supposed to be fun, not a job.

ZOS,

Blizzard thinks that giving players an opt out of third party data sharing is a good idea. It shows that they care about the privacy of their player base.

Do you care about the privacy of your player base ZOS?

VaranisArano

blackweb wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

blackweb wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

Darkenarlol wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

[Quoted post was removed]

What's happening in real life that's specifically a problem with ESO Logs?

Every ESO player is anonymous by default, so no identifying info is shared with ESO Logs without the player's consent.
Nor is the requirement that players build, gear up, or parse according to their guild's requirements exclusive to or caused by ESO Logs. No one is entitled to a raid spot, after all.

This is not true. As I understand it, if we are grouped with someone who has the esologs app and is collecting and uploading data, their data can be collected and uploaded without their consent.

I said: "Every ESO player is anonymous by default, so no identifying info is shared with ESO Logs without the player's consent."

Your combat data is not identifying info. Your sets and build are not identifying info that someone not in your group can track back to you. It may be on the site as part of someone else's log, but the site doesn't attribute it to you in anyway if you are anonymous.

Now, if you are part of a trial group who asks everyone to opt in and you remain anonymous, they'll know who's the odd man out. But that's true of refusing to post your Combat Metric parse, do a training dummy parse, or refusing to discuss your build with them as well. If that gets toxic, that's a problem with your guildmates, not an ESO Logs problem.

Of course it is identifying by default. If we are the only person in a group who wishes to remain anonymous, we are by definition singling ourselves out for ridicule and abuse. Most of us just want to play the game and have fun in whatever way we wish to play it, without millions of people looking over our shoulders. This is a violation of our privacy as eso players and it should end by ZOS giving us an opt out of all sharing of our data with third parties. We should not have to explain to obnoxious, toxic elitists why we are marked anonymous in a log when we did not consent to be logged.

I was told by both trial guilds that I joined that if I wished to remain anonymous, I would not be allowed to run trials with them. I never ran a trial or a dungeon with them. This would never have happened before esologs.com.

As I've told you, before ESO Logs it was "Post your combat metrics data" or "Post your build info" and you could be kicked from a serious group for refusing.

ESO on PC has always made it possible for groups to figure out the one refusing person's combat info by extrapolation. ESO Logs is not new in that regard.

Raisin

You keep bolding the same thing... It is not your data. You own nothing. It is not private or yours to command, dictate, or consent to how it is handled. You agree to this in playing the game. ZOS is sharing information they own. They are not sharing any private information of yours.

It is your attitude that befouls your credibility. It gives the impression that your accusations of toxicity and elitism are likely exaggerated and inaccurate
None of us can know for sure of course, but the way you present yourself makes you read like the kind of person who pushes those labels into people they don't agree with. If you want to run with a group that doesn't do logs, then do that. There are plenty. You are not forced to stay in guilds that do not share your views. Staying in those groups to keep complaining is all on you.

People being toxic exists on its own. And even without logs, the same organised guilds will ask for DPS and information on your build.

RogueShark

blackweb wrote: »

RogueShark wrote: »

Find new guilds.
I don't raid as much as I used to, but I still cleared vKA HM not long after release and go to vet trials, hardmode runs, achievement runs, etc fairly regular.
Only time logs are ever brought up are to see where things have been going wrong, check uptimes, and generally for self-improvement.

That being said, raid leads WILL tell people what they should be running. Tanks and healers in what sets, DPS if they need to run some sort of buff or utility, etc. This has nothing to do with logs and everything to do with efficiency.

If you're in a guild that's heavy-breathing over logs and you aren't interested in that sort of high-end play, bail. There are much more lax groups and guilds out there.
If you have a problem with being asked or told in general what to wear, especially as a support, then... idk. Understand why it's efficient or, again, look for a more casual group.

The only reason I am playing wow again is because of the Blizzard opt out. If an opt out in the account interface is not provided in ESO, I will be taking my leave of the game. After 15 years of high end raiding and PvP, I have had enough of toxic elitism. It is a game, it is supposed to be fun, not a job.

ZOS,

Blizzard thinks that giving players an opt out of third party data sharing is a good idea. It shows that they care about the privacy of their player base.

Do you care about the privacy of your player base ZOS?

You can still be anonymous. Don't run with groups who require logging. It's not that complicated. If you want to play casually and without groups requiring logs, you can do that. Just don't expect to force that playstyle on higher-end groups who require logs.

NeillMcAttack

blackweb wrote: »

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

I was told by both trial guilds that I joined that if I wished to remain anonymous, I would not be allowed to run trials with them.

Why do you feel entitled to a raid group of you can’t/won’t meet their standards? Why should the game have to change because can’t/won’t change your gameplay?

The fact that you asked that question means that I cannot help you understand. We had parsers before esologs.com. We had parser addons but it was up to each individual player to install the addon and collect their own parse then share it manually with others.

How I play the game is none of your business unless I make it so. How I spec, gear or play ESO is not your concern.

I DO NOT CONSENT TO SHARE MY DATA TO YOU OR ANYONE ELSE THROUGH ANY THIRD PARTY.

If you are playing in a raid group, where everyone relies on each others' ability and understanding of the encounter to succeed, then your equipped skills, your set's (especially as a healer or tank), and ability, are indeed of the concern of the other players.

You mentioned you play as a healer, do you understand that every end game healer will be required to have access to certain sets, so that raid leads can optimize the groups set-up regarding penetration, sustain, and damage, depending on the encounter?
Why would any group feel they owe it to you to let you heal some difficult content when you refuse to help optimize the group?

VaranisArano

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

blackweb wrote: »

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

I was told by both trial guilds that I joined that if I wished to remain anonymous, I would not be allowed to run trials with them.

Why do you feel entitled to a raid group of you can’t/won’t meet their standards? Why should the game have to change because can’t/won’t change your gameplay?

The fact that you asked that question means that I cannot help you understand. We had parsers before esologs.com. We had parser addons but it was up to each individual player to install the addon and collect their own parse then share it manually with others.

How I play the game is none of your business unless I make it so. How I spec, gear or play ESO is not your concern.

I DO NOT CONSENT TO SHARE MY DATA TO YOU OR ANYONE ELSE THROUGH ANY THIRD PARTY.

If you are playing in a raid group, where everyone relies on each others' ability and understanding of the encounter to succeed, then your equipped skills, your set's (especially as a healer or tank), and ability, are indeed of the concern of the other players.

You mentioned you play as a healer, do you understand that every end game healer will be required to have access to certain sets, so that raid leads can optimize the groups set-up regarding penetration, sustain, and damage, depending on the encounter?
Why would any group feel they owe it to you to let you heal some difficult content when you refuse to help optimize the group?

Excellent point! Trials are a cooperative activity between 12 people. Casual groups may not care too much, but most serious groups are going to set base expectations just in the interests of respecting their teammates' time.

bharathitman

There were lot of complaints when esologs released, people said it would be the start of elitist behaviour in eso end game raiding, none of this happened. Toxicity did not increase or neither did it decrease, people can still find out if you are not doing your part or if your up-times are low (in case you play support).

I am not sure what you want here? If you want to do a trial then you are playing it with 11 other players, you cannot play however you want in a veteran trial group, even without esologs people will eventually figure out your caliber. You can't expect people to take you into a vet trial with random gear sets equipped and doing 5k dps

And as other people said, you don't own your combat data