Game Performance Improvements Preview – Update 27

xaraan

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Sounds like some good minor fixes, but not sure what to expect. Cyro performance is pretty bad when pop is high, so seems like something bigger is needed there. But anything helps at this point I guess.

As for trial performance, yes, more is needed there. Obviously even frames can get rough in fights no matter what, but the longer you are in the trial (esp some trials) the buggier they get. Things desync, etc.

We also have random bugs, like in KA, taunt just drops or doesn't work on mobs sometimes. Our team for example splits one pull where I will tank a couple mobs like 2-hander and sword and board mobs to side away from group while the group and other tank deals with everything else, but quite often I will taunt one of them, the skill and buff shows, but the mob still runs to other group. I've retaunted them and they still remain, this is not a problem with the other tank taunting by accident, we've been watching for it and making sure b/c it happens so often. Sometimes I'll fire inner fire off on first of the two mobs on countdown and it doesn't even apply even though it fires off. Definitely something weird going on here, but when you are progging something and having it fail b/c the game doesn't work right, it makes people a lot more frustrated.

@xaraan Yep, we experienced this same issue many times. I don’t even think it’s limited to vKA, it can happen in vSS and maybe other trials. ESOlogs helped find out what was causing the problem, it’s not that the taunt doesn’t cast or apply, check out this series of events:



Unclear if this “remove everything” is intended or a bug (it has been reported) but it tends to happen a few milliseconds after a battle starts. The best thing you can do for now is make sure a light attack lands on something to trigger the “remove everything” and then start taunting.

Thanks for the info. Will try it out. Definitely been very weird to deal with. As a tank one of the few 'fun' things we get to do is stack things up for the group in different ways, so having that not work has been another nail in my coffin of tank enjoyment.

xXMeowMeowXx

The update is much appreciated. It would be nice to hear from certain members of the team, on what we could realistically expect.

Q and A style or just updates with continuity.

Also, I am still wondering why so many issues happened after the initial performance update 25....It seems odd to me that performance degraded after a performance patch.

SmukkeHeks

Those tests in Cyrodiil on the live server, is that only na?

I would suggest you also get a good taste of the eu. Ballgroups, guildwars, missing skills, broken break free and everything

Dreyloch

"We are taking a cautious approach to rolling out this new tech, choosing to focus solely on Dragonknight Standard (and morphs) for U27. "

Seriously don't think this is the one ya need to look at. Necro graveyard, Templar AE's, Warden ice patches. These are the ones we see most often in Cyrodiil. Looking at an ultimate first that is much more rarely cast is not gonna make any progress, nor give you a better data set to go by.

Vaoh

Ever since Morrowind launched, the game performance has degraded so drastically that the gameplay itself now feels significantly more clunky.

So while this all sounds like great work..... these are all issues which barely used to exist where I play (PS4). I can’t get hyped until I see the game begin to return to the gameplay performance that it used to have.

Kingslayer513

Dreyloch wrote: »

"We are taking a cautious approach to rolling out this new tech, choosing to focus solely on Dragonknight Standard (and morphs) for U27. "

Seriously don't think this is the one ya need to look at. Necro graveyard, Templar AE's, Warden ice patches. These are the ones we see most often in Cyrodiil. Looking at an ultimate first that is much more rarely cast is not gonna make any progress, nor give you a better data set to go by.

All of you are completely missing the point. ZOS has some new tech/algorithm that will (hopefully) be applied to all persistent AOEs in the future. Right now they've just chosen Dragonknight Standard as the test subject on the live server and are only rolling out the tech on this skill. I'm sure they have reasons for choosing this skill, but it doesn't mean they consider DK Standard to be a problem skill that needs looking at. It's just a representative sample for all other persistent AOEs.

mav1234

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Trial Performance: Our metrics have shown that Trial performance on the server has not been a consistent experience. We were able to track down the root cause of this–instance launchers running multiple Trials simultaneously would routinely perform worse overall. We've taken a pass at the algorithm which determined how Trial instances are distributed and now factor this into account. This will decrease the chances of our instance launchers being overloaded in high usage situations and impacting Trial performance as a result.

Thank you for the updates! I have one question: Is it possible this is happening with BGs, too? There are sporadic and seemingly random cases where a BG has VERY bad performance. Could the engineers investigate if this is happening with BGs as well?

LadyLethalla

Intermittent load screens - between Bleakers and Bruma, always that area, get multiple one after the other. Also get one at the Deshaan gate where the writ dropoff boxes are.

Banana

Please get some outside help in

Nemesis7884

seems to me that one of the main issue was moving some checks from client side to server side...that causes a lot of lag...the other thing is lack of gpu and multi core utilization which is causing fps issues... if these fundamental issues arent solved I am just not sure how much of an improvement we can really expect but I am very hopeful and appreciate any effort taken...

It is also kinda sad that for all abilities and sets performance has to been taken into account primarily which will probably strongly limit creativity...

Tsukyme

hopefully that new update fixes stuff as the past 5 years ones never did, cyrodill nowdays is unplayable, game at 5pm became unplayable, crash 247, animation cancel became got worst, good game in a bad "evolving" process, either bad team or not much attention on our reports into all the problems.

edit1: all that with a 200mb internet.

Unified_Gaming

Tsukyme wrote: »

hopefully that new update fixes stuff as the past 5 years ones never did, cyrodill nowdays is unplayable, game at 5pm became unplayable, crash 247, animation cancel became got worst, good game in a bad "evolving" process, either bad team or not much attention on our reports into all the problems.

edit1: all that with a 200mb internet.

You need 201mb Internet to fix the issues

Jokes aside, the changes do need to improve cyrodiil as I've had to heavily reduce the amount of content that is based in cyrodiil and instead now have to rely on IC and battlegrounds. It's strange how in mid year the performance was significantly better so I hope it stays like that.

scottii

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom If you really want to improve performance, have your engineers see how Guild Wars 2 does their coding. That game is older than ESO, and has near minimal lag/performance problems - all while running on the exact same game engine (HAVOK). Just last month, i say a raid of about 200 players on a screen, with the player having 200 png due to his location, and the game operated just fine. In other words meaning, the abilities were going off without a 2-3 second delay.

Eclipse0990

I think the dev team has gone through all skills, ultimates and picked Standard as it's one of the longest active aoe skills (16+ seconds iirc) with synergy, status effect and debuff.
Or they just picked the first one they saw.

Elsonso

Unified_Gaming wrote: »

Jokes aside, the changes do need to improve cyrodiil as I've had to heavily reduce the amount of content that is based in cyrodiil and instead now have to rely on IC and battlegrounds. It's strange how in mid year the performance was significantly better so I hope it stays like that.

I think that was smoke and mirrors, rather than anything substantial. They increased the number of campaigns, which spread people out, and they probably dropped the player cap per campaign, so fewer people were actually in any one campaign. That would make it look like things were better.

Anecdotally... Aside from the intermittent loading screens anywhere near Pact territory, if you are the only one in Cyrodiil, the game performs like a finely tuned orchestra.

If that is all they did, they may set all that back to where it was before MWM so that they can tell if future fixes work like they expect. Crudely, it depends on whether "make people happy" is more or less important than "fix performance problems".

Karmanorway

🖤

Major_Lag

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
Can you please tell us if there are any plans to do something about the dreaded "stuck in combat bug" which mostly occurs in Cyrodiil?

Based on the symptoms, it looks like there might be some (even if only slight) performance improvements to be had from fixing it, since the server is wasting resources tracking the "in combat" status of players who cannot possibly be in combat - for example, because of being on the opposite ends of Cyrodiil.

And if this bug cannot be fixed for any reason, are you considering implementing some kind of workaround for it, such as removing some of the restrictions on which actions cannot be performed while in combat? Such as - for example - mounting up or changing quickslot assignments?

Miswar

Hmmm, this sounds like PR department update to be honest.

The state of the game is absolutely awful on PS4.

Skills fire and work one in blue moon, desyncs beyond imagination, loading screens left and right, synergies etc function in trial like toss of an coin, Cyrodiil absolute in horrific state at the moment etc etc.

To be honest I dont know what "metrics" you still need to gather? All of the above have escalated in last 12 months.

Top of the mentions nothing has been fixed from previous lags etc these are just addons.

Friendly advise anyone considering buying this products on this ALPHA state... well just do not do that.

There was no remarks about any of these on your so called "preview". Why is that?

Last nights ESO live was also an disappointment... your main themes were 2 man mount and housing stuff.

Kind of no suprise since personally have feeling nothing is getting better in terms of the game performance.

Just remember when the game does not function it is pointless to add new stuff. Thats kind of adding wood into dumbster fire like it is at the moment.

seerevaloc

TBH, as a quick-flaming person I can say I'm really happy since Harrowstorm & incremental maintenances/updates performance wise. Game is much more consistent than the terrible experiences we had in the past.

Thank you @ZOS_GinaBruno & the team. Please keep it up.

-->
PS. I've recently bought glowing stones at home (Hall of the Lunar Champion). That yellow ones, and placed inner quarters.
When I port into "Halls of Colossus" and return, stones not glowing anymore. This is happening with other portals too.
I've reported via ingame tool but no action taken so far, been time.

Thank you.

FrancisCrawford

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Database Improvements: We've made some backend changes to incorporate an in-memory database cache in our server processes, which will reduce the amount of contention on our production databases when under stress. Initially for U27, we are setting the foundation and focusing on a small piece of the Activity Finder tool which should result in smoother processing overall. Once we’ve evaluated this on the live servers, it will create opportunities in future updates to move over additional functionality, allowing us to perform more work simultaneously without performance degradation.

In all my years of criticizing ZoS' database technology, it never occurred to me that they didn't have this already.

My white paper advocating memory-centric database technology was pitched in 2005 and published in 2006. It was somewhat forward-thinking then. But ESO was first designed, I presume, several years later. The idea should have been part of the architecture from the get-go.

Dreyloch

Kingslayer513 wrote: »

Dreyloch wrote: »

"We are taking a cautious approach to rolling out this new tech, choosing to focus solely on Dragonknight Standard (and morphs) for U27. "

Seriously don't think this is the one ya need to look at. Necro graveyard, Templar AE's, Warden ice patches. These are the ones we see most often in Cyrodiil. Looking at an ultimate first that is much more rarely cast is not gonna make any progress, nor give you a better data set to go by.

All of you are completely missing the point. ZOS has some new tech/algorithm that will (hopefully) be applied to all persistent AOEs in the future. Right now they've just chosen Dragonknight Standard as the test subject on the live server and are only rolling out the tech on this skill. I'm sure they have reasons for choosing this skill, but it doesn't mean they consider DK Standard to be a problem skill that needs looking at. It's just a representative sample for all other persistent AOEs.

I'm not missing the point, nor do I think that DK standard is an issue in and of itself. Just think they would get more data off a skill that's used more frequently.

_adhyffbjjjf12

This is the first update I have seen that gives me hope that the developers are actually making some progress, with comments that make some technical sense (i've been a senior dev for 20 years so know some things) Massively encouraging and has reassured me that i've done the right thing in resubscribing for the moment.

Keep up the good work and stamp on any procrastination if it appears, make the progress real. Performance is THE ONE THING that stops ESO from being the best mmorpg by far and would secure the customer base for many many years if you fix the issues.

_adhyffbjjjf12

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Database Improvements: We've made some backend changes to incorporate an in-memory database cache in our server processes, which will reduce the amount of contention on our production databases when under stress. Initially for U27, we are setting the foundation and focusing on a small piece of the Activity Finder tool which should result in smoother processing overall. Once we’ve evaluated this on the live servers, it will create opportunities in future updates to move over additional functionality, allowing us to perform more work simultaneously without performance degradation.

In all my years of criticizing ZoS' database technology, it never occurred to me that they didn't have this already.

My white paper advocating memory-centric database technology was pitched in 2005 and published in 2006. It was somewhat forward-thinking then. But ESO was first designed, I presume, several years later. The idea should have been part of the architecture from the get-go.

I was surprised as well, its part of the common patterns in my area (banking and pension systems). early 2ks it became viable with the drop in cost of memory and multi core processing and the obvious issues with contention and speed. Obviously things have improved greatly since then.

relentless_turnip

I like the detail.
I would have been over the moon if this was being applied to the game pre u25.

It's the lack of talk regarding current issues that bothers me. All of these measures are to optimise a functioning game. Which would be great if we were still on u24 when things were just laggy...

You need to adjust the things you broke, such as where you moved block server side and everything else you moved and didn't tell us. Perhaps you had to move player position check to make the block change work. You claimed it caused an issue none of us were feeling or talking about. It worked much better before this change.

I would like to know why you didn't just roll this back? Was it for stadia?
@ZOS_Gilliam would love to hear your take as the man who explained this change to us.

_adhyffbjjjf12

relentless_turnip wrote: »

I like the detail.
I would have been over the moon if this was being applied to the game pre u25.

It's the lack of talk regarding current issues that bothers me. All of these measures are to optimise a functioning game. Which would be great if we were still on u24 when things were just laggy...

You need to adjust the things you broke, such as where you moved block server side and everything else you moved and didn't tell us. Perhaps you had to move player position check to make the block change work. You claimed it caused an issue none of us were feeling or talking about. It worked much better before this change.

I would like to know why you didn't just roll this back? Was it for stadia?
@ZOS_Gilliam would love to hear your take as the man who explained this change to us.

Rolling back is a very rare thing and extremely high risk, especially where there is character state involved. Generally you fix forward and mitigate risk by deploying small frequent incremental drops to live (Mature dev ops required).

Blacknight841

27 updates later, still nothing to address the bots, gold buyers and sellers, and those that violate the terms of service. Perhaps start with enforcing the terms of service so that your player base can play the game as it was intended.

Major_Lag

Blacknight841 wrote: »

27 updates later, still nothing to address the bots, gold buyers and sellers, and those that violate the terms of service. Perhaps start with enforcing the terms of service so that your player base can play the game as it was intended.

With all due respect, I'd much rather prefer for ZOS to focus on fixing the game's performance first and foremost.
At this point I couldn't possibly care less about bots and any other ToS violators, because currently the game does not work properly on a most basic level (the PvP especially so), with abilities not activating, frequent HP desyncs, and a plethora of other combat-related issues.

Once performance is brought back to an acceptable level, then - but certainly not before then - it would be appropriate to start looking into dealing with such offenders.

That's not to say that bots etc. are not a nuisance - because they are - but right now, ESO has much bigger problems in other areas.

Elsonso

Major_Lag wrote: »

Blacknight841 wrote: »

27 updates later, still nothing to address the bots, gold buyers and sellers, and those that violate the terms of service. Perhaps start with enforcing the terms of service so that your player base can play the game as it was intended.

With all due respect, I'd much rather prefer for ZOS to focus on fixing the game's performance first and foremost.
At this point I couldn't possibly care less about bots and any other ToS violators, because currently the game does not work properly on a most basic level (the PvP especially so), with abilities not activating, frequent HP desyncs, and a plethora of other combat-related issues.

Once performance is brought back to an acceptable level, then - but certainly not before then - it would be appropriate to start looking into dealing with such offenders.

That's not to say that bots etc. are not a nuisance - because they are - but right now, ESO has much bigger problems in other areas.

With an equal amount of respect, the game isn't completely broken, and people are playing (successfully) every day. If the game were currently completely broken and not functioning, and by that I mean on a much larger scale than the problems that we have today, then I would say that you would be right. ZOS would need to stop what they are doing, right the ship, then resume.

That simply is not the case, and such extreme measures are not required, and would probably not be helpful. It is acceptable for them to continue to work on these things in parallel with other work.

My main issue is how long it takes them to actually accomplish the work, not that they are not working on it.

smee_z

Scaling up is definitely MORE EXPENSIVE for ZOS to cope with exploding population taking the game.
So, yes, fixing the game performance would be the way to go. This much is for sure they need to do.

Thank you for the updates.
I read all of the details and it's very interesting.

RDMyers65b14_ESO

SmukkeHeks wrote: »

Those tests in Cyrodiil on the live server, is that only na?

I would suggest you also get a good taste of the eu. Ballgroups, guildwars, missing skills, broken break free and everything

These things are quite frequent on Gray Host during prime time for PC - NA. Plus being stuck on textures, mini load screens, desyncs, skills not going off, unable to swap bars, and crashes.