Is tanking easy?

AWinterWolf

@VampireAlpa89 are you PC and are you EU or NA? If you're on PC EU, I'd run some content with you, if you wanted?

SamboJ

VampireAlpa89 wrote: »

I have a Nord Dragonknight, I want to tank, but I’m embarrassingly concerned with the other players kicking me out of the dungeon for messing up. I may just be worried about it. I haven’t tanked in ESO before, or much at all in any video game. Is tanking easy, or is it harder than DPS?

Tanking is fun & easy! Dungeon mechanics aside, there's 3 things to focus on as a tank:

1) Taunt everything
2) Don't die
3) Resurrect others

The easiest way to learn is with a new character because you'll only be progressing through beginner dungeons. I use a level 10 Plague Doctor set to level my tanks to 50 (gathered from dolmens & delves in Deshaan when I was a low level). Coupled with the 'looking for group' tank health buff, it can make you even tougher than many max champ tanks.

There's many types of tanks, but they "usually" fall into 2 categories; Max health & Damage Tanks.

Damage tanks are great for speed-running normal & non-dlc veteran dungeons.
Max health tanks are great for all content (if the group does a nice amount of damage).

Tanking is fun in ESO, just remember that there's always someone out there who may ditch your group because they need to go No2.

Have fun!

FierceSam

Hey @VampireAlpa89

Gratz on having the desire to want to tank. It’s a super valuable role and really fun once you get used to it. It’s relatively easy to be ordinary (and effective enough), and a challenge to be really good.

There are lots of good tanking/how to tank vids on the YouTube, Woeler and ESOU are great.

I would definitely try to find a good, fun PvE guild to join (they will be delighted to have more tanks) or get a group of buddies to do dungeons with and ideally be using comms or Discord. This will enable the group to help you while you’re learning the dungeons. And while you’re getting the gearsets you need to get fully equipped.

Also, it’s much more fun when you’ve got a group that actually lets you tank on easier dungeons rather than yolos off into the distance thinking killing everything before you get there somehow enhances your experience.

The biggest step up is not from normal to vet dungeons but from basegame ones to DLC dungeons... tanking the latter is a significant step up and will take a bit more skill.

Good luck and have fun

Elwendryll

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

The skill gap is insane however. As a Tank you're either not really needed and never really learn your role or everything rely on you performing your role to near perfection or the entire team wipe instantly as is the case in a lot of vet DLC dungeon's and Vet trials.

This is really true. I play Tank and DD, I already got 4 triples (It means a no death speedrun with HM turned on, available on all the DLC dungeons since dragonbones), and while we wouldn't go without a tank (the debuffs are too useful), it's often easier to go with 3 DDs.

A lot of bosses can be kept in place by a DD, as long as you dodge the very telegraphed one shots. But running without a Tank is counter-productive unless you're farming some base game dungeons. Major Fracture/Breach, Alkosh, Minor Courage, the CC, Crusher enchant, etc... Are too valuable buffs/debuffs. And too many bosses just need a tank.

Some fights also absolutely require a healer. Or a very specific tank build.

Go clear Frostvault HM without a healer. It's possible, but you're going to have a fun time xD If the tank or the healer dies here, it tend to lead to a wipe very fast.

Ozby

Honestly don't do rando norms as people do not let you tank anything they just run ahead agro-ing everything and stunning them making it impossible for you to do any form of crowd control or tanking. Better to do Vets imo.

Hotdog_23

Taunt, hold the boss still as possible and don't die. The rest you can learn later. Just have fun doing it. Some groups are great some are tougher. Most pugs groups are ok to good and you meet nice people also.

Be safe and have fun

Alamakot

ZoeInDreams wrote: »

Run with guildies when learning to tank.

Run with guildies full stop.

If you're drunk enough, you can use the Group Finder, but you'll have to be pretty hammered to think it's a good idea.

As you can have up to five guilds at a time, it shouldn't be a problem finding people to run with, especially around pledge reset time.

Can confirm. Install Discord, find nice beginner friendly guild, where you can learn your role and dungeon mechanics. Additionally, guildmates will help you with crafting

Runefang

Tanking is simple mostly, to learn you should just be following the normal route. Normal base dungeons > normal DLC dungeons > vet base dungeons > vet DLC dungeons. Normal crag trials > normal DLC trials > vet crag trials > vet dlc trials.

TooWeak2Live

[Seems I went on a bit of a rant here. Enjoy...]

Outside of the most recent vet trials, tanking is indeed easy. There are many places in the game where my tank straight up can't die, even if I just AFK and let a boss beat on me.

Getting kicked from a dungeon as tank would be extremely funny, not only because it's easy in the first place, but because the remaining players could end up waiting an hour for another tank to queue in.

Now, all of that said, many DPS simply do not have a clue how tanking works in ESO. There is no multi-target taunt. Taunts last at most 15 seconds (sometimes less), and the global ability cooldown is 1 second (let's pretend macro hacks don't exist for a moment). If you can do basic arithmetic, it's obvious that there are situations where it's simply impossible to keep taunt on all enemies. Furthermore, if a DPS pulls a pile of enemies ahead of the tank, now the tank is stuck trying to taunt them all off the DPS before they die. And when the DPS does die from their own stupidity, they will turn around and blame the tank.

Keep in mind that there are a number of bosses and specific boss mechanics that can't be tanked at all. E.g., the giant dwarven spider at the end of DC2 is completely unaffected by taunt, the shielding vamp in MGF can't be taunted during his shield and shields can't be punctured, etc. Sometimes the only thing a tank can really do is hit group shields and pray the DPS doesn't suck too much. Of course it sucks to spend 15-20 minutes getting to that point in MGF and then fail hard without being able to do anything about it.

And lastly, I feel compelled to mention required group mechanics. It doesn't matter how much health, mana, and sustain you have, there are a lot of pure oneshots in the game, particularly ones where another player has to do something while you're trapped. E.g. the werewolf boss in MHK, 70% of the time nobody will interrupt it after the leap. Also in many of the recent DLCs, heavy attacks are always oneshots if you're not blocking. It's pure laziness on the part of ZOS game designers, and it's not fun in any way whatsoever, but that's how ESO is, they ran out of original game play ideas years ago so they just make everything ridiculous.

It might sound like I'm making a case here for why tanking is hard, but I'm really not. Even the oneshots, while annoying, are completely predictable and usually telegraphed, so you just block when you need to. But it is often FRUSTRATING, because many times you're relying on the DPS to not be ignorant and/or underpowered, and they're often both.

Jerkling

redgreensunset wrote: »

Thanks for the laugh mate, I needed it.

You're welcome. I'm always happy to help people who "struggle" in life.

Khenarthi

I've been using the group finder all the time (for normal, non vet dungeons) and my experience as a tank is that it's quite pleasant:

* As long as you taunt the boss and try to keep it still, you'll have no hate from anyone. Crowd controlling mobs is a nice bonus.

* Getting paired with high dps players will make the run last a few minutes and you won't be able to learn anything, but at least it's a quick run.

* Getting paired with newbies is great, as they will have very low dps and you can do your thing actually being useful to the group, with the mechanics of each dungeon.

To be honest, I don't think I ever got any hate on a normal dungeon. The worst thing to happen is other players rushing ahead.

Veteran, Hardmode, and DLC dungeons are another kettle of fish. Be sure to do those first with a group of friends or guildies so that you can have them show the mechanics and be patient if/when the wipes happen.

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO

TooWeak2Live wrote: »

...
There is no multi-target taunt.
...

Not quite true. A Templar can gain access to a real, working AoE taunt by wearing the Tormentor set and using the Explosive Charge morph of Focused charge (Third skill in the Aedric Spear skill line). It's a niche build, not really useful for trials or veteran DLC dungeons, but it does make it possible to taunt absolutely everything in sight. I can recommend trying it for fun. However, the game is not designed around that kind of tanking, and you will end up tanking more than people expect, as well as needing quite a lot of heals (either from yourself or from a healer) to make up for the amount of beating you take from having a dozen mobs pummeling you all at once.

Scarletblaze

VampireAlpa89 wrote: »

I have a Nord Dragonknight, I want to tank, but I’m embarrassingly concerned with the other players kicking me out of the dungeon for messing up. I may just be worried about it. I haven’t tanked in ESO before, or much at all in any video game. Is tanking easy, or is it harder than DPS?

there's a very good tanking discord out there--TankClub. amazing tanks that answer questions, channels with builds, lots of resources! great way to connect with good tanks too!

FrancisCrawford

SamboJ wrote: »

The easiest way to learn is with a new character because you'll only be progressing through beginner dungeons.

I'm going to pick on that part of your post, because it makes little sense unless you assume people will queue for Random Dungeons.

And I think queueing for Random Dungeons is in many cases a horrible mistake. Rather, one should queue for specific dungeons (one or several as the case may be), that one one feels optimistic about handling with the build and prior knowledge one is queueing with.

TooWeak2Live

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

SamboJ wrote: »

The easiest way to learn is with a new character because you'll only be progressing through beginner dungeons.

I'm going to pick on that part of your post, because it makes little sense unless you assume people will queue for Random Dungeons.

And I think queueing for Random Dungeons is in many cases a horrible mistake. Rather, one should queue for specific dungeons (one or several as the case may be), that one one feels optimistic about handling with the build and prior knowledge one is queueing with.

On what planet do you live? Of course people will queue random on a new character, for both dungeons and BGs, because even if they suck they're getting an XP boost from it. ZOS has provided an explicit incentive to, arguing against it is just tilting at windmills.

LadyNalcarya

I'd say tanking has lower requirements for beginners. You just need some heavy armor and a taunt, no need to figure out rotations or anything, and with selfish sets it's not very difficult to stay alive ("selfish" sets are basically just sets that give bonuses to your character, as opposed to "support" sets that provide buffs for the whole group).
However, if we're talking about dlc hardmodes and stuff, tanking is not easier than dpsing. I'd say that it's even more stressful, especially in progression groups - you're the one controlling the battlefield, and if you die, it will probably be a wipe.

Sarannah

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

I'd say tanking has lower requirements for beginners. You just need some heavy armor and a taunt, no need to figure out rotations or anything, and with selfish sets it's not very difficult to stay alive ("selfish" sets are basically just sets that give bonuses to your character, as opposed to "support" sets that provide buffs for the whole group).
However, if we're talking about dlc hardmodes and stuff, tanking is not easier than dpsing. I'd say that it's even more stressful, especially in progression groups - you're the one controlling the battlefield, and if you die, it will probably be a wipe.

Just wanted to respond to this post, as I've noticed as a tank it is better to use 'selfish' sets. When a DPS dies, you or someone else can revive them. When the tank dies, most likely everyone dies. Personally I found tanking much easier when focussing on staying alive myself, overall faster too.

PS: And less repaircosts

Scottfree2

I recently rolled a new char for Greymoors, and decided to try a tank, must say i like it .. im at the centre of the action w world bosses and dungeons etc , and i'm NOT dying, which i enjoy ..

Did some daily random normal dungeons, the one second queue time is fun too

So yeah, make a new char, get a sword and board, and enjoy .. Vet and hard mode stuff is serious business, but anything below that you can just have fun while u get used to it.

Just my 02c worth

Milli_Rabbit

From my experience tanking various levels of content with randoms (or PUGs as we call them) and with organized groups, tanking has a lot of difficulty levels. Group finder is great for it. Yes, you sometimes get groups with crap DPS, but you can learn the mechanics and just have fun without looking for a guild and people in that guild to do a specific dungeon with you. Some tips:

1) Start with gear. Get yourself some cheap tank gear like Plague Doctor's, Battalion Defender, and Senchal Defender.
Make sure small pieces are sturdy trait. Big pieces (chest, legs, head) are infused.
Use a sword and shield + lightning/frost staff for weapons.
Look up a tank build for DK.

2) Watch a Youtube video of the dungeon and read mechanics beforehand. Most normal dungeons you can just ignore mechanics as a tank, but veteran dungeons can get tricky to downright sweaty.

3) Learn the basics of tanking in normal dungeons where its safe, then veteran base game dungeons, then normal trials, then veteran DLC dungeons, and so on. The basics are position yourself well, taunt the boss, debuff the enemy, buff the team, and most important, stay alive. You will learn these from practice. It's hard to understand until you do it. Having a mentor who has done the content helps a ton, but make sure they have the experience as a TANK. DDs and healers often have no clue about the dangers you are facing.

3) Realize that you are a commodity and are needed. It is rare for tanks to get kicked because the group knows how hard it is to find another one. I have never been kicked as a tank, even with several deaths in a dungeon. Be honest if its your first attempt. Be prepared, though. Don't bite off more than you can chew too soon.

Mancombe_Nosehair

If you want to practice tanking, there are a couple of world bosses which are good.

The first one is near the docks in Daggerfall. There are almost always people there fighting it, and they will be grateful to have you, as the boss there chases people around most of the time unless taunted.

The other place is just south of the central dolmen in Deshaan. However, there are usually fewer players there, they mostly attack it after doing the dolmen there.

JanTanhide

Tanking for the most part is not difficult. You should be able to manage any and all normal dungeon modes including DLC dungeons after a short time running dungeons.

Using the Group Finder in the beginning as a lowbie Tank is usually not too much fun except for the DLC dungeons because a lot of players use Random Dungeon for XP and run it in Normal mode so you will get some pretty high CP players often (once you reach CP 160 or so). Under level 50 you will get players around your level usually.

While still under level 50 I suggest using Group Finder to hone your skills. A Nord DK is an excellent choice for a Tank. The DK has a fine Toolkit for Tanking. Some players using Sword and Board on both bars (I do) and some use S&B on one bar with something else on the back bar like an Ice Staff (Necro and Warden Tanks I see a lot of this), some use a Bow, some use a 2H weapon, some use a Lightning staff.

In the beginning I suggest using S&B on both bars. Many will push you to go with the "Meta" Tank gear setup which usually uses Ebon (drops from Crypt of Hearts 1 and 2). I personally avoid it unless it is absolutely demanded. I dislike Ebon immensely because I run what is called a "Selfish" Tank. LOL. My Tank can stay alive in the harshest conditions and as long as the skills fire and block works (some problems ZOS introduced in the past but should be fixed now) it is very difficult to kill my Tank even in the toughest DLC Vet dungeons.

ESO has quite a few gear sets that can be used for Tanking. You can use dropped gear or crafted. In the beginning under CP 160 crafted gear is the way to go.

Get this Addon (PC) and look through it to give you an idea of what gear sets you want to use. Experiment and have fun. Do something unusual and see how it works out. https://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1480-ItemSetBrowser.html

I am assuming you already know you need a Taunt and in the beginning you have access to the Taunt available in the 1H and Shield skill tree. As you progress you can unlock the Taunt in the Undaunted skill line and use it for ranged taunting.

Resource management is key to Tanking. If you run out of resources you won't survive so it becomes paramount to learn how to manage your Stamina, Magicka and of course keep your Health above 0%. Don't depend on a Healer in your group to keep you alive and give you resources, especially when running dungeons using the Group Finder.

If you run dungeons with friends then it is much easier to manage resources as long as the Healer keeps you alive and gives you resources. You will see. Tanking is a lot of fun and a bit challenging once you hit Vet dungeons while low CP. Once you reach high CP it becomes a lot easier as long as you put the CP where it will help you as a Tank. Don't use your CP for DPS unless you intend to have a hybrid type Tank that can do both DPS and Tanking (you will be severely challenged when running the hardest Vet dungeons with a Tank like this...yes, people are going to disagree with me. LOL).

I have two main Healers and two Main Tanks and the rest are DPS. I've completed all Vet dungeons in Vet on my Tanks, Healers and DPS. It's good to know how all the roles work together so once you master Tanking I suggest trying the other roles. This is no short term prospect. I've been in the game going on six years and played DPS the first 3 or so. It was an eye opener running a Tank and a Healer. Learned a lot.

Check out Tanking videos on youtube and builds on the Internet. Have fun! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLzVx3wBzt18QAJ9TRPhIVg/search?query=tank

FierceSam

Sarannah wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

I'd say tanking has lower requirements for beginners. You just need some heavy armor and a taunt, no need to figure out rotations or anything, and with selfish sets it's not very difficult to stay alive ("selfish" sets are basically just sets that give bonuses to your character, as opposed to "support" sets that provide buffs for the whole group).
However, if we're talking about dlc hardmodes and stuff, tanking is not easier than dpsing. I'd say that it's even more stressful, especially in progression groups - you're the one controlling the battlefield, and if you die, it will probably be a wipe.

Just wanted to respond to this post, as I've noticed as a tank it is better to use 'selfish' sets. When a DPS dies, you or someone else can revive them. When the tank dies, most likely everyone dies. Personally I found tanking much easier when focussing on staying alive myself, overall faster too.

PS: And less repaircosts

That’s true when you start off and your only 2 objectives are Stay Alive and Taunt The Boss.

However, as you become better at tanking you can also offer the group Buffs and Debuffs as support. Some of those are part of basic tanking (eg minor maim and fracture), but others are the result of gear choices that don’t just focus on you. The key tanking sets like Ebon or Alkosh provide just such group benefits.

And by the time you’re ready for DLC dungeons and trials, you’ll want to bring more than just a taunt and a happy face to the party.

Nestor

I treat every dungeon as requiring a Tank, playing the normal ones like I would a Vet. I Taunt the Boss, CC the Adds, Debuff the Boss and Buff the group. This way I don't get out of practice for the dungeons that really need one.

Ironically, the DD's burn the Dungeon down faster when I do this....Well, those times when the DD's give me 10 seconds at the start of a boss fight to set things up.

Inaya

VampireAlpa89 wrote: »

Thank you, I use to play World of Warcraft, and it was bad. If you screw up one time, they will either start trouble with you or kick you most of the time, in the higher levels. I would try my best, and they would kick me, just for not having high enough DPS. I DPS a lot then. I was afraid ESO was the same way. I like to play heavy armor and sword and shield or two handed. I actually play all of the classes though.

ESO has a LOT less jerks, altho I would imagine at the higher levels of gameplay it is probably much the same. Pugs are pugs, you can get lucky with a good group or unlucky with a bad group and as in every game I've ever played it's the tank and healers fault. I tanked in WOW but ONLY tanked for guildies and had a friends run with me until I learned the dungeons. I also tanked in raids which required a much better reaction time and found it more stressful than dungeons. I also NEVER did mythic +'s on my tank, healer or any dps (I had 10 toons).
The speed "beat the clock or you get no chests and mess up someones key" was way to stressful for me. I tanked to relax.

I would certainly give tanking in ESO a shot if you enjoy it. While you WILL run into ***hats there will be far fewer than in WOW.

OmniDo

Simple answer: Yes.
Complex answer: Capability + Time + Effort + Patience = Yes.

cheifsoap

Heck no tanking isn't easy. IMO, It's the hardest arch-types in the game. Tanks have a huge responsibility to not only tank stuff and hold agro but to buff your DPS and groups sustain. Additionally add management and boss management is the name of the game. You'll also find yourself doing a lot of the callouts because you'll often times see the mechanics first. The "tank" role in this game isn't your typical type of tank you'd see in other MMO's; people who think it is are just bad tanks and I'd never take them in to a vet trial. That said, tanking is also really fun because there can be a lot of butt clinching moments - especially now since you can't block out of sprint.

Drdeath20

Tanking dungeons is fairly easy. Know what to taunt, when to block vs when to dodge and everything else is a bonus. Dps can burn past tough mechanics making everything trivial.

Tanking in harder trials has some extremely hard moments and if the tank goes down it is unlikely that the group will recover. If you are not actively keeping good uptimes on buffs/debuffs the dps drop off is immense.

amm7sb14_ESO

Jerkling wrote: »

Zenzuki wrote: »

[...] This game allows for people to play as they want to for the most part. [...]

No, not really. Unless you're playing the current meta and have at least a decent rotation you're going to struggle even in standard overland content.

Huh?

Kalantris

1. Tanking is extremely complicated compared to other roles (which doesn't mean it's necessarily hard, but still).
2. You are responsible for roughly 50-60% of your team's damage output by buffs (Yolna, Alkosh, Tremor, crusher) and positioning (chaining mobs in, positioning trash during boss fights etc.)
3. Tanking is extremely redundant, because regardless how hard you try you'll never be more effective than a 3xdps + heal squad, especially on all non-dlc content.

If you want to maximize your chances with PUGs, build for support + offheals. I usually run a resto staff on my backbar and have three heals (including one synergy) and have a perf. masters + alkosh + perf. yolna. It makes me invincible, gives me roughly 13k bonus penetration for the group, solid heals and a resource synergy.

Milli_Rabbit wrote: »

1) Start with gear. Get yourself some cheap tank gear like Plague Doctor's, Battalion Defender, and Senchal Defender.
Make sure small pieces are sturdy trait. Big pieces (chest, legs, head) are infused.
Use a sword and shield + lightning/frost staff for weapons.
Look up a tank build for DK.

You're way too dogmatic here. Sure, sturdy is nice, well-fitted is equally nice, infused is nice if it drops, but I'd never reroll anything to it, especially sturdy or well-fitted. Backbar depends on your build, your needs and your resource management. As I said I run a resto staff most of the time with powered and crusher, only switch to infused crusher lightning when the healer is very good and I have no mana problems (synergies). The most important part is block cost reduction on jewelry, which gives you way more than sturdy on gear. You should aim for ~500 stamina cost on block, which should remove any and all resource problems. Beyond that you can go wild with traits, whatever floats your boat.

Milli_Rabbit wrote: »

3) Learn the basics of tanking in normal dungeons where its safe, then veteran base game dungeons, then normal trials, then veteran DLC dungeons, and so on. The basics are position yourself well, taunt the boss, debuff the enemy, buff the team, and most important, stay alive. You will learn these from practice. It's hard to understand until you do it. Having a mentor who has done the content helps a ton, but make sure they have the experience as a TANK. DDs and healers often have no clue about the dangers you are facing.

You won't learn anything in normal dungeons if you get a single twink or just some high-level player, who just wants the 100k xp and doesn't have the time for a vet. One of the most important parts of tanking is resource management and learning that on bosses that melt in 15 seconds just ain't gonna happen. You have to challenge yourself, you have to fail to learn. Even if you get kicked in the end.

Best regards,
Kalantris

Niaver

As a tank you are expected to know the road, mechanics, where adds spawn, where to stack them, etc. So the role requires a lot of knowledge, idially.