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What is the point of the Maelstrom Arena??
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FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭SolidusPrime wrote: »I figured they adjusted the rates because pretty much everyone I know got their MA or new vMA weapons within 5 runs. I don't think I even know anyone that is still grinding it.
RNG is RNG I guess. Sorry for stealing all your good rolls.
My take so far:- 3 DW sets
- 2 Mauls
- 3 Resto staffs
- 1 Ice staff
- 1 Flame staff (Infused, even), on my most recent run
I'm giving it a rest now for a while.
And to the commentary above -- for people like me, who have trouble identifying (let alone anticipating) exact mob spawns, nMA is indeed a reasonable challenge. I don't think I've ever run it "flawlessly".
By the way, in normal mode Stages 5-7 are definitely the toughest, because the Crematorium Guards are jokes. Yes, one has to completely fail to hit a Trollbreaker for it to be a problem ... but that can happen. One can get all one's obelisks webbed, all the more because Hoarvers die so quickly that they're hard to pull. And flowers ... well you know.
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Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Maelstrom is a great place to l2p without wasting the time of other players
@zvavi
Could you imagine if there was a group-finder option that required a VMA clear to queue? It would be paradise. Doesnt need to be flawless or anything. 4 randoms that have all cleared VMA are going to succeed in almost all 4-man content without much issue. I think it would also encourage a lot more people to give it a go.7 -
siddique✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Maelstrom is a great place to l2p without wasting the time of other players
@zvavi
Could you imagine if there was a group-finder option that required a VMA clear to queue? It would be paradise. Doesnt need to be flawless or anything. 4 randoms that have all cleared VMA are going to succeed in almost all 4-man content without much issue. I think it would also encourage a lot more people to give it a go.
That's not a bad idea. And they could implement it as an added queue finder instead of replacing it with the current one."Knee-jerk reactionist."
Lost Depths, 2015-2022.0 -
WhyMustItBe✭✭✭✭✭
✭ckrobinson83 wrote: »Seriously... you run this thing and run it and run it.... and you get the exact same set every time?? I know someone who wanted a staff. Took him 16 times through the thing. I'd like the bow, but out of 5 times I've gotten the sword and board THREE times. I don't run a tank, and even if I did, I wouldn't use that. I guess it's good that they made it easy enough the rest of us non-power players could get through, but there's really no point in running the thing in vet if the only things you ever seem to get are things that none of your characters can use. Same thing with City of Ash... my group ran it over a hundred times... never once got the BSW staff. There's grinding, then there's this BS.
It is really too bad ZOS hasn't seen fit to add dungeon-specific tokens that drop from boss kills which can be saved to just straight buy specific items from a set you are looking for from vendors in/for that specific dungeon.
Past a certain point pure reliance on RNG just feels a little lazy. Like the theory is it will lead to more 'engagement' but really in practice it contributes far more to burnout.1 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Maelstrom is a great place to l2p without wasting the time of other players
Could you imagine if there was a group-finder option that required a VMA clear to queue? It would be paradise. Doesnt need to be flawless or anything. 4 randoms that have all cleared VMA are going to succeed in almost all 4-man content without much issue. I think it would also encourage a lot more people to give it a go.
It is a horrible idea, tanks are rear in queue as it is, and people will be just using cheese builds to accomplish the clear, which means nothing.
Another small annoyance is that since achievements are per character it is gonna be cancerous for each new character you create.
If queue needs a test, it ain't a 30 minutes one (for proficient people). It should be specialized tutorial per role that wouldn't take more than 5 minutes for proficient people, preferably 2. With 4 levels, 1 for normal dungeons, one for normal dlc+vet non dlc, dlc, and just for fun (and achievement) hell mode.1 -
aenax✭✭✭ckrobinson83 wrote: »Seriously... you run this thing and run it and run it.... and you get the exact same set every time?? I know someone who wanted a staff. Took him 16 times through the thing. I'd like the bow, but out of 5 times I've gotten the sword and board THREE times. I don't run a tank, and even if I did, I wouldn't use that. I guess it's good that they made it easy enough the rest of us non-power players could get through, but there's really no point in running the thing in vet if the only things you ever seem to get are things that none of your characters can use. Same thing with City of Ash... my group ran it over a hundred times... never once got the BSW staff. There's grinding, then there's this BS.
Depending on your equipment and class/build it seems hard to succeed below 300cp, in the video i watched (partially) most people were telling the audience that one should expect to die dozen or even hundred of time.
Now of course if your CP is 800 and if your armor and staff are in gold with good solo set bonuses tt may seem just trivial.
For me it is still meaningful, many guildmates have not not it yet.
What you may wish for is a version of the arena that would be challenging for current equipment and cp levels.0 -
siddique✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Maelstrom is a great place to l2p without wasting the time of other players
Could you imagine if there was a group-finder option that required a VMA clear to queue? It would be paradise. Doesnt need to be flawless or anything. 4 randoms that have all cleared VMA are going to succeed in almost all 4-man content without much issue. I think it would also encourage a lot more people to give it a go.
It is a horrible idea, tanks are rear in queue as it is, and people will be just using cheese builds to accomplish the clear, which means nothing.
Another small annoyance is that since achievements are per character it is gonna be cancerous for each new character you create.
If queue needs a test, it ain't a 30 minutes one (for proficient people). It should be specialized tutorial per role that wouldn't take more than 5 minutes for proficient people, preferably 2. With 4 levels, 1 for normal dungeons, one for normal dlc+vet non dlc, dlc, and just for fun (and achievement) hell mode.
All builds are cheese for vma. Whether you cheese it or not, vma teaches you a bit of raid awareness and survivability. That's the point. Better than those who can't clear it at all, cheese or not.
I kept hearing how magsorc is the "cheese class" for vma, when I cleared on my magblade, I can swear it felt cheesier than anything else. No passives, bad trait blue gear, no monster set, two skills and I finished it with a bunch of vitality. And I'm not even a score pusher in there.
So again, that isn't the point.
Ps. And it takes me 30 seconds to queue on my tank."Knee-jerk reactionist."
Lost Depths, 2015-2022.3 -
Darkenarlol✭✭✭✭✭
✭vma achievements works as qualifications
stormproof - ready for dlc vet pve (know how to survive, manage resources, can follow mechanics)
flawless - reliable party member for vet dlc achieve blind runs at the day of release0 -
siddique✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
It's pretty simple. Make the tank pre qualification as vbrp.
Imagine a queue finder that puts three flawless conquerers with an unchained tank."Knee-jerk reactionist."
Lost Depths, 2015-2022.0 -
MudcrabAttack✭✭✭✭✭I sometimes wonder if the rng tables always reset properly. I got 2 decisive ice staves in a row0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Maelstrom is a great place to l2p without wasting the time of other players
Could you imagine if there was a group-finder option that required a VMA clear to queue? It would be paradise. Doesnt need to be flawless or anything. 4 randoms that have all cleared VMA are going to succeed in almost all 4-man content without much issue. I think it would also encourage a lot more people to give it a go.
It is a horrible idea, tanks are rear in queue as it is, and people will be just using cheese builds to accomplish the clear, which means nothing.
Another small annoyance is that since achievements are per character it is gonna be cancerous for each new character you create.
If queue needs a test, it ain't a 30 minutes one (for proficient people). It should be specialized tutorial per role that wouldn't take more than 5 minutes for proficient people, preferably 2. With 4 levels, 1 for normal dungeons, one for normal dlc+vet non dlc, dlc, and just for fun (and achievement) hell mode.
I don’t see how any of that is relevant at all. First, I said option. Not a requirement. Second, every decent tank I know has cleared VMA. It’s a non issue. If you are a “support role only” type player that refuses to do vma, you aren’t that good anyway.1 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Maelstrom is a great place to l2p without wasting the time of other players
Could you imagine if there was a group-finder option that required a VMA clear to queue? It would be paradise. Doesnt need to be flawless or anything. 4 randoms that have all cleared VMA are going to succeed in almost all 4-man content without much issue. I think it would also encourage a lot more people to give it a go.
It is a horrible idea, tanks are rear in queue as it is, and people will be just using cheese builds to accomplish the clear, which means nothing.
Another small annoyance is that since achievements are per character it is gonna be cancerous for each new character you create.
If queue needs a test, it ain't a 30 minutes one (for proficient people). It should be specialized tutorial per role that wouldn't take more than 5 minutes for proficient people, preferably 2. With 4 levels, 1 for normal dungeons, one for normal dlc+vet non dlc, dlc, and just for fun (and achievement) hell mode.
I don’t see how any of that is relevant at all. First, I said option. Not a requirement. Second, every decent tank I know has cleared VMA. It’s a non issue. If you are a “support role only” type player that refuses to do vma, you aren’t that good anyway.
It is relevant because zos doesn't do "account wide"0 -
FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Maelstrom is a great place to l2p without wasting the time of other players
Could you imagine if there was a group-finder option that required a VMA clear to queue? It would be paradise. Doesnt need to be flawless or anything. 4 randoms that have all cleared VMA are going to succeed in almost all 4-man content without much issue. I think it would also encourage a lot more people to give it a go.
It is a horrible idea, tanks are rear in queue as it is, and people will be just using cheese builds to accomplish the clear, which means nothing.
Another small annoyance is that since achievements are per character it is gonna be cancerous for each new character you create.
If queue needs a test, it ain't a 30 minutes one (for proficient people). It should be specialized tutorial per role that wouldn't take more than 5 minutes for proficient people, preferably 2. With 4 levels, 1 for normal dungeons, one for normal dlc+vet non dlc, dlc, and just for fun (and achievement) hell mode.
I don’t see how any of that is relevant at all. First, I said option. Not a requirement. Second, every decent tank I know has cleared VMA. It’s a non issue. If you are a “support role only” type player that refuses to do vma, you aren’t that good anyway.
It is relevant because zos doesn't do "account wide"
Could your objection be met by having free respecs for MA that revert after you leave the area? If so, would the simplest form -- attribute point respec only -- suffice?Edited by FrancisCrawford on June 29, 2020 12:22AM0 -
AndyMac✭✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Maelstrom is a great place to l2p without wasting the time of other players
@zvavi
Could you imagine if there was a group-finder option that required a VMA clear to queue? It would be paradise. Doesnt need to be flawless or anything. 4 randoms that have all cleared VMA are going to succeed in almost all 4-man content without much issue. I think it would also encourage a lot more people to give it a go.
Great post - too much to hope for though most likely. If you join a (half) decent PvE guild focusing on vet raids and vet dungeons, you can come close though. Plenty of vMA clears there nowadays. It does make a huge difference playing with those folks.
vMA is pure l2p - and that's the benefit of it. Any player that comes out will be much better than the player who went in. I'd recommend it to anyone who's serious about PvE endgame.
Imo, if you can do vMA, there's not alot of ESO PvE that you can't do.Andymac - Magicka DK - EP Grand Overlord - Flawless Conqueror0 -
p_tsakirisb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Maelstrom is a great place to l2p without wasting the time of other players
@zvavi
Could you imagine if there was a group-finder option that required a VMA clear to queue? It would be paradise. Doesnt need to be flawless or anything. 4 randoms that have all cleared VMA are going to succeed in almost all 4-man content without much issue. I think it would also encourage a lot more people to give it a go.
Great post - too much to hope for though most likely. If you join a (half) decent PvE guild focusing on vet raids and vet dungeons, you can come close though. Plenty of vMA clears there nowadays. It does make a huge difference playing with those folks.
vMA is pure l2p - and that's the benefit of it. Any player that comes out will be much better than the player who went in. I'd recommend it to anyone who's serious about PvE endgame.
Imo, if you can do vMA, there's not alot of ESO PvE that you can't do.
nMA is good enough for "training" tbh. If someone can do it, then there is no issue do harder content with that character.
Emphasized "with that character. " because the problem starts when people using 1 qbar pet sorcerer to do vMA/nMA to get items to play play other classes who have no idea how they work, nor they dare to take to nMA to train themselves.
Not that nMA is hard content tbh. My Stamplar can do it by running Rally and shooting with the bow, but many cannot even do that.0 -
ReaX✭✭✭To run harder pve content you usually need friends/guildmates or signing up in discord for trials. I like vMA because you can do it any time you want without depending on anyone else. When I make new accounts, first thing I do after reaching cp10 is going to vMA. My best clear so far is on cp88 - that was rather hard but a lot of fun anyway.0
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p_tsakirisb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭To run harder pve content you usually need friends/guildmates or signing up in discord for trials. I like vMA because you can do it any time you want without depending on anyone else. When I make new accounts, first thing I do after reaching cp10 is going to vMA. My best clear so far is on cp88 - that was rather hard but a lot of fun anyway.
Tbhs someone can solo normal 4man dungeon except the DLC ones post Imperial City DLC also.
Many can be soloed in veteran mode also, for better challenge.
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furiouslog✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I've run it 39 times since Greymoor started and still no inferno staff. This is still within the realm of possibility. Once I hit 60 runs without a staff, it would mean something was probably biased with the RNG.1 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Maelstrom is a great place to l2p without wasting the time of other players
Could you imagine if there was a group-finder option that required a VMA clear to queue? It would be paradise. Doesnt need to be flawless or anything. 4 randoms that have all cleared VMA are going to succeed in almost all 4-man content without much issue. I think it would also encourage a lot more people to give it a go.
It is a horrible idea, tanks are rear in queue as it is, and people will be just using cheese builds to accomplish the clear, which means nothing.
Another small annoyance is that since achievements are per character it is gonna be cancerous for each new character you create.
If queue needs a test, it ain't a 30 minutes one (for proficient people). It should be specialized tutorial per role that wouldn't take more than 5 minutes for proficient people, preferably 2. With 4 levels, 1 for normal dungeons, one for normal dlc+vet non dlc, dlc, and just for fun (and achievement) hell mode.
I don’t see how any of that is relevant at all. First, I said option. Not a requirement. Second, every decent tank I know has cleared VMA. It’s a non issue. If you are a “support role only” type player that refuses to do vma, you aren’t that good anyway.
It is relevant because zos doesn't do "account wide"
If you know how to play VMA, in other words, you went through the process of learning it (which is the whole point), you can run it on any class in about 40-50 minutes (less, once you get the hang of it). Another Non Issue, IMO. If you have a new character and want to use this hypothetical group finder option, well, spend an hour and run VMA to show you have at least given the class an ounce of thought before subjecting others to your play.1 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Maelstrom is a great place to l2p without wasting the time of other players
@zvavi
Could you imagine if there was a group-finder option that required a VMA clear to queue? It would be paradise. Doesnt need to be flawless or anything. 4 randoms that have all cleared VMA are going to succeed in almost all 4-man content without much issue. I think it would also encourage a lot more people to give it a go.
Great post - too much to hope for though most likely. If you join a (half) decent PvE guild focusing on vet raids and vet dungeons, you can come close though. Plenty of vMA clears there nowadays. It does make a huge difference playing with those folks.
vMA is pure l2p - and that's the benefit of it. Any player that comes out will be much better than the player who went in. I'd recommend it to anyone who's serious about PvE endgame.
Imo, if you can do vMA, there's not alot of ESO PvE that you can't do.
I wouldn't limit this to PVE. Clearing VMA will increase your overall understanding of how combat works in this game, and that certainly translates to PVP as well. The best build to learn VMA is more closely related to an open world PVP build (other than Impen gear) than a glass cannon trial build. Now of course, the best build to nuke that place more closely resembles the later.
I think the real downside to a groupfinder option like this is that it would make the basic option even more sketchy. Wouldnt matter for normal runs (never been in a failed normal groupfinder, sure it happens), but my guess is vet runs without that option toggled would probably decline in overall quality. Not that it's a terribly high bar to begin with.0 -
xF1REFL1x✭✭✭Red_Feather wrote: »I heard arenas and dungeons are made for a specific group of people who apparently love doing the exact same thing over and over again. I'm not joking. It was in an interview.
Pretty much sums up every game more or less.0 -
FlopsyPrince✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭DocFrost72 wrote: »Maelstrom teaches you more about the mechanics of the Elder Scrolls Online than any tutorial ever could. It taught, and humbled, me.
It doesn't teach much of anything. Being able to survive it may mean you have mastered the mechanics, but it could use a lot more of the "teaching" you mentioned.
It is on my list, but farther down. I can't make it past the poison level of MA and haven't even bothered to try the vMA version at all.
Yeah, I need to "get gud", but I am not and I have enough to do that I am not going to spend a lot of time trying to get the really good lightning staff my pet sorc main needs.PC
PS4/PS50 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Maelstrom is a great place to l2p without wasting the time of other players
Could you imagine if there was a group-finder option that required a VMA clear to queue? It would be paradise. Doesnt need to be flawless or anything. 4 randoms that have all cleared VMA are going to succeed in almost all 4-man content without much issue. I think it would also encourage a lot more people to give it a go.
It is a horrible idea, tanks are rear in queue as it is, and people will be just using cheese builds to accomplish the clear, which means nothing.
Another small annoyance is that since achievements are per character it is gonna be cancerous for each new character you create.
If queue needs a test, it ain't a 30 minutes one (for proficient people). It should be specialized tutorial per role that wouldn't take more than 5 minutes for proficient people, preferably 2. With 4 levels, 1 for normal dungeons, one for normal dlc+vet non dlc, dlc, and just for fun (and achievement) hell mode.
I don’t see how any of that is relevant at all. First, I said option. Not a requirement. Second, every decent tank I know has cleared VMA. It’s a non issue. If you are a “support role only” type player that refuses to do vma, you aren’t that good anyway.
It is relevant because zos doesn't do "account wide"
If you know how to play VMA, in other words, you went through the process of learning it (which is the whole point), you can run it on any class in about 40-50 minutes (less, once you get the hang of it). Another Non Issue, IMO. If you have a new character and want to use this hypothetical group finder option, well, spend an hour and run VMA to show you have at least given the class an ounce of thought before subjecting others to your play.
I have flawless on my mag sorc. I wouldn't run it on my tank sorc. Putting dmg focused arena as a tank requirement is silly, you can't change my mind.0 -
Eifleber✭✭✭✭✭I think RNG is sometimes a bit over the top in this game.
What about: end bosses dropping 1 voucher or ticket.
For 30-50 you can pick one single item of your choice.
It's still grind - but at least you know there's always a light at the end of the tunnel.
Must admit that after 60ish runs I gave up on the CoA inferno staff.❆
Playing since dec 2019 | PC EU0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAA67a2-Klk
