On RNG - better RNG on certain characters?

Raudgrani

krayphysh wrote: »

I couldn't locate the original post I was referring to, but found another that is very comparable. It states,

"You need to write code to generate the random numbers and code is NOT random. (It's deterministic)

You wind up starting with a "Seed value(s)" that is picked at "Random" (usually the current time stamp) then use it in an algorithm to start generating numbers. But the entire set of is based off the original Seed value!

If you run your code again with the exact same Seed value(s), you will get the EXACT same SET of numbers! How can any reasonably person call that random? But it sure does LOOK random."

It's efficient enough for video games, and it's cheap.

Unfortunately we don't know what type of RNG system that ESO uses, but I'd imagine they use the cheapest option they can. I doubt they own quantum computers or anything capable of producing truly random numbers.

Even like pretty high end encryption systems have had "red alerts" several times, because of someone being able to determine their algorithms; some software like PGP used to ask you to "randomly move your mouse" to fill a meter with "randomness", in order to create a truly(?) unique key.

I suppose the RNG is a lot less complicated in a game like this, and to a large extent it isn't really random at all, but openly affected by passives that you can see and change. In addition, there might be what we are dealing with here, some kind of stats that you can't see or know of, not in an obvious way at least.

Lysette

krayphysh wrote: »

I couldn't locate the original post I was referring to, but found another that is very comparable. It states,

"You need to write code to generate the random numbers and code is NOT random. (It's deterministic)

You wind up starting with a "Seed value(s)" that is picked at "Random" (usually the current time stamp) then use it in an algorithm to start generating numbers. But the entire set of is based off the original Seed value!

If you run your code again with the exact same Seed value(s), you will get the EXACT same SET of numbers! How can any reasonably person call that random? But it sure does LOOK random."

It's efficient enough for video games, and it's cheap.

Unfortunately we don't know what type of RNG system that ESO uses, but I'd imagine they use the cheapest option they can. I doubt they own quantum computers or anything capable of producing truly random numbers.

yeah that is common way to write a pseudo-random generator. There are plenty of methods to do it and those with a seed value have the benefit to be repeatable in exactly the same way. Pseudo-random generators have different properties and one has to choose one that is appropriate to the purpose you need it for. for example Mersenne twister can create a high number of random events very quickly, but it isn't safe for cryptographic purposes for example. The most commonly used random generator is multiply-with-carry, a seed based random generator which is extremely fast and has a large period length.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiply-with-carry_pseudorandom_number_generator

This random number generator can very efficiently be coded in assembler and is capable of generating tens of milllions of numbers per second on a normal processor core. Nothing complicated about it.

Btw there is no proof that anything in the universe is random at all - it could be fully deterministic and still be unpredictable because of deterministic chaos .- so if there is true randomness in the universe at all cannot be shown - it looks more likely that nothing in the universe is truly random.

newtinmpls

ImmortalCX wrote: »

People who say "its all RNG" are taking the position that you can't prove its not an equal distribution, that every character has the same chance. Thats a pretty easy position to defend. Kinda like saying "God does not exist", because there isn't any tangible proof. This is a great argument for people who want to be right.

Wait...are you saying "God does not exist" is a position taken by people "who want to be right" ?

My brain hurts

ImmortalCX wrote: »

For instance with antiquity leads. When you already have an open lead, you wont get that same lead again until you complete the original one.

Not exactly.

You can't get a usable one - but you can still "see it" in the loot pile. Happens to me a lot when farming with friends - we basically run some activity together until everyone has the lead. It can (and has) "dropped" more than once, but you can only have one "active".

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Similar logic is used for crown crates; they don't grant your account a unique item you already have it.

Not exactly. And this may have been changed (it's been a lOOONNg time since the free crates, and I never bought any) but I have drawn in the past cards that are a "thing" I already have and it was instantly converted to gems.

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Another example, IME with the antiquity system, is that lead drops from dungeon bosses dont follow a normal distribution. IME collecting leads, drops in dungeons either happend in the first few runs, or it took 25+ runs. I didn't follow a normal distribution. Either I got it in runs 2-3 or after 25. A normal distribution would have some that took 7, some that took 17, etc.

Theoretically true, but unless and until you can document thousands of runs, this falls into "perception" (i.e. "feels like it took forever") and not actual measurement.

So in summary:

1-you have not presented actual evidence.

2-motive is subjective

3-proving anything requires actual proof.

And just for the heck of it:

4-Praise Akatosh!!


ps ...edited to fix quote-y mischief

newtinmpls

Raudgrani wrote: »

I own and have read quite a few books on the topics of causality/synchronicity and such, which is all interesting and so on - but this is an artificial universe, not necessarily subject to that kind of science. It's openly admitted from time to time, that "RNG" has been altered to increase or lower drop chances of certain types of loots, there are passives to increase chances of the same, and there's quite obviously "cooldowns" on certain types of loot like blue/purple crafting and motif pages. So it is NOT random, not in any way actually.

So intentionally or not, there's like nothing in the way of some characters with higher chances of higher level loot, you just can't prove it either way..

Well....

1-This universe is part of and partakes of our larger universe and

2-I have no interest in proving, I just enjoy!!