Leads through ore, a stupid and shorsighted idea.

kaisernick

Remnant of the False Tower found via Ore Node, Ore Survey Node, Jewelry Survey.
Seriously is that it. why on earth do you think its a good idea, its not fun it isnt enjoyable it mind numbing running around looking for ore to harvest, after finally getting it the time it took has burned me out and i dont even want to play the dam game anymore.

you need to put more leads other than one way, otherwise the entire system isnt fun its mind numbingly grindy and if i wanted that id go back to wow.

Lintashi

People complaining that leads drop in pledges? Saw that. From fishing? Been there too. From IC? Ofc. From overland bosses? Yes. Now ores. Next thread will be: why leads drop from overland chests, just give them all to me now, I need to complete all system has to offer in 1 week, and complain further, that I have nothing to do.

SpiderKnight

I just hate that you have to scry and then dig for them, why can't I just login and have an NPC (preferably Stuga) walk up with a silver platter and and say "Do you know how long I've been waiting to give this to you?" That way I don't have to actually play the game like it was made to be played.
In-fact, why not just give us everything at login? Why should we waste time playing in an mmo?

/s...obviously

.

ArchMikem

Thinking of something as a grind to acquire it as soon as possible is going about it wrong. You should just play the game as normal, harvest as normal, and loot it along the way. It's the journey, not the destination.

Linaleah

ArchMikem wrote: »

Thinking of something as a grind to acquire it as soon as possible is going about it wrong. You should just play the game as normal, harvest as normal, and loot it along the way. It's the journey, not the destination.

more or less. I'm in that stage now - but thanks to that annoying "this lead will expire in 30 days" mechanic, I felt initially incredibly rushed to finish leveling the skill lines, or lose couple of rare ultimate leads for furnishings I've been lusting for since they were first datamined (and seem to have VERY low drop rate, so i didn't want to push my luck by letting them expire). NOW.. that its fully leveled? i can relax and play as normal, and its fine that leads drop from variety of places, but that stupid expiration timer? is i'm sorry - stupid and the opposite of making it about the journey. IMO.

Everest_Lionheart

I’m getting yellow and orange leads randomly dropping on me at the moment and had no intention of pushing for this line yet, but I will probably gins it all up in a week. Just trying to get the skill points required to max the whole line first though. Feels like I’m cramming for an exam.

Ashtaris

kaisernick wrote: »

Remnant of the False Tower found via Ore Node, Ore Survey Node, Jewelry Survey.
Seriously is that it. why on earth do you think its a good idea, its not fun it isnt enjoyable it mind numbing running around looking for ore to harvest, after finally getting it the time it took has burned me out and i dont even want to play the dam game anymore.

you need to put more leads other than one way, otherwise the entire system isnt fun its mind numbingly grindy and if i wanted that id go back to wow.

So why do you think it’s a bad idea? You can get leads from a lot of different places, crafting nodes is just one of the many. I think it’s a smart way to get people interested in the antiquity system no matter what play style they prefer.

Everest_Lionheart

Ashtaris wrote: »

kaisernick wrote: »

Remnant of the False Tower found via Ore Node, Ore Survey Node, Jewelry Survey.
Seriously is that it. why on earth do you think its a good idea, its not fun it isnt enjoyable it mind numbing running around looking for ore to harvest, after finally getting it the time it took has burned me out and i dont even want to play the dam game anymore.

you need to put more leads other than one way, otherwise the entire system isnt fun its mind numbingly grindy and if i wanted that id go back to wow.

So why do you think it’s a bad idea? You can get leads from a lot of different places, crafting nodes is just one of the many. I think it’s a smart way to get people interested in the antiquity system no matter what play style they prefer.

I think the 30 day expiration is probably the turn off. See my post just above yours. Don’t get me wrong I’ll take all the free stuff I can get but prefer not to feel rushed especially for the two mythic items that randomly dropped yesterday. Forces my hand a bit because RNG was super kind. Now if I could just be so lucky for a perfected maelstrom bow on my first try!

kaisernick

Lintashi wrote: »

People complaining that leads drop in pledges? Saw that. From fishing? Been there too. From IC? Ofc. From overland bosses? Yes. Now ores. Next thread will be: why leads drop from overland chests, just give them all to me now, I need to complete all system has to offer in 1 week, and complain further, that I have nothing to do.

SpiderKnight wrote: »

I just hate that you have to scry and then dig for them, why can't I just login and have an NPC (preferably Stuga) walk up with a silver platter and and say "Do you know how long I've been waiting to give this to you?" That way I don't have to actually play the game like it was made to be played.
In-fact, why not just give us everything at login? Why should we waste time playing in an mmo?

/s...obviously

.

again i said they need to put lead in MORE places other than one way,
However, you will also find leads via many activities as you explore
having that they only drop from one source is boring, if leads dropped from multiple like ores worlds bosses chests ect it wouldnt matter if the drop rate was as low it would at least mean your not stuck doing one thing over and over and over for one lead.

Taleof2Cities

“But I needz the rewards from the new content RIGHT NOW to check it off my imaginary list.”

preevious

It's an excellent idea. Leads drop from everything and every zone.
Perfect design. A true stroke of genius.

Imryll

If they need an expiration date, the countdown shouldn't begin until the skills are fully leveled. Forcing folks to grind to 10 or risk losing highly desireable items, is removing the fun from what should be an enjoyable activity. Once the skills are leveled, 30 days won't be such a hardship but while leveling it's definitely a fun drainer.

AlnilamE

Imryll wrote: »

If they need an expiration date, the countdown shouldn't begin until the skills are fully leveled. Forcing folks to grind to 10 or risk losing highly desireable items, is removing the fun from what should be an enjoyable activity. Once the skills are leveled, 30 days won't be such a hardship but while leveling it's definitely a fun drainer.

I'm casually leveling the skill line and I've been able to dig up everything before the timer got to 20 days, with the exception of one of the parts for the music box.

YandereGirlfriend

People are missing the reason for the lead expiration mechanic: it isn't to make people who have already bought the game grind faster, it is to get people who haven't bought the expansion at all to buy the expansion.

There is literally no other purpose for having the design choice of allowing leads to drop for non-buyers paired with the time limit. It's intended to generate FOMO for non-buyers and prompt thinking such as: "Oh man, my RNG luck just gave me three Mythic leads... it'd be a real shame to let them go to waste."

In any case, I happen to think that spreading out the lead drops over nearly all content types was actually a really fantastic decision. I particularly enjoyed fishing in Stros M'kai for the Mythic lead there, as fishing isn't something that I do very often and something about the beauty of the location and the relaxation of the activity was just very satisfying.

RNG would be even more infuriating though if we listened to the OP and put all types of leads available from any drop source. Consider: if you have a 15% chance from a World Boss and a 1% chance from a node source, this is actually a much greater RNG chance than if everything were thrown into a single global Antiquities lead loot table.

With context-sensitive drop rates, you can be deliberate in your farming and eventually you will get it. If everything is in a single loot table, the chance of getting an individual lead plummets through the floor. Instead of 1% chance from nodes, you would have something like a 0.001% drop rate in order to balance out the fact that its specific RNG is competing now with every other lead in the game. Imagine the existential crisis that would be induced as you farm for months and months and months and never get the drop that you want.

No thanks!

Radiance

I delved into antiques a bit until I got mid way and could excavate costume and furniture items and I was underwhelmed by them. I understand you need to be max rank to get the good 💩 but I haven't had the drive to play for about a week now. idk if there is a chart-guide-thing as to where specific leads drop bc I just want to go to the select pieces I actually want instead of running around aimlessly hoping I find something of value. Scrying and Excavating are fun, I guess, but it's surreal seeing mini games that bare a striking resemblance to games I saw my grandmother play on her old Dial-up Box Computer in like, the 90's...

It's not as if people just complain bc they enjoy it, they are most likely torn between their real life expectations and what is supposed to be a form of entertainment and escape to help you relax in your leisure time but instead it brings frustration to the point of mental exhaustion.

On the flip side we have people who complain they're not being challenged enough bc they have no real life expectations so they quite literally have all the time in the world. It's just amusing to me to see the Career's argue in favor of the grind bc they've already come out the other side and don't want to feel they wasted their time while that's exactly the reason we don't even want to begin the 💩.

Linaleah

AlnilamE wrote: »

Imryll wrote: »

If they need an expiration date, the countdown shouldn't begin until the skills are fully leveled. Forcing folks to grind to 10 or risk losing highly desireable items, is removing the fun from what should be an enjoyable activity. Once the skills are leveled, 30 days won't be such a hardship but while leveling it's definitely a fun drainer.

I'm casually leveling the skill line and I've been able to dig up everything before the timer got to 20 days, with the exception of one of the parts for the music box.

leveling between 8 and 10 is... a drag. even when you are grinding it - it takes a WHILE. I agree with the post above, if they MUST have a timer - the timer shouldn't start until you max out the skill lines IMO.

treasure maps do not expire and you'd think they would given the similar lore nature of "leads"

i do agree that its there more so as an "encouragement" for those still on the fence - to buy the expansion, though in this case, why isn't the timer part of UI from the start? I will never understand it. and the side effect of that "encouragement" is feeling rushed even if you do have expansion already.

(and to add - if not for the expiration, my typical way of playing and leveling skill lines would have taken me months, not weeks)

Nord_Raseri

Only leads I hate looking for are the ones found only in safes/lockboxes.

Linaleah

Radiance wrote: »

I delved into antiques a bit until I got mid way and could excavate costume and furniture items and I was underwhelmed by them. I understand you need to be max rank to get the good 💩 but I haven't had the drive to play for about a week now. idk if there is a chart-guide-thing as to where specific leads drop bc I just want to go to the select pieces I actually want instead of running around aimlessly hoping I find something of value. Scrying and Excavating are fun, I guess, but it's surreal seeing mini games that bare a striking resemblance to games I saw my grandmother play on her old Dial-up Box Computer in like, the 90's...

It's not as if people just complain bc they enjoy it, they are most likely torn between their real life expectations and what is supposed to be a form of entertainment and escape to help you relax in your leisure time but instead it brings frustration to the point of mental exhaustion.

On the flip side we have people who complain they're not being challenged enough bc they have no real life expectations so they quite literally have all the time in the world. It's just amusing to me to see the Career's argue in favor of the grind bc they've already come out the other side and don't want to feel they wasted their time while that's exactly the reason we don't even want to begin the 💩.

there is a community chart started and maintained by Inklings.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oZNNtdccCOm-6rNJ5y6jAwnkdVvVMJC6lP9NN_dIE7Y/htmlview?pru=AAABcn2S9U4*eaYDcRujQxncqVUGx6tcjw# its being constantly updated as players discover new lead locations, but its a good starting point.

there is also an addon if you are on PC that helps in several ways, one being - showing you those expiration timers.

https://www.esoui.com/downloads/fileinfo.php?s=d3fbc7cd2e5ca9781f277474049f553b&id=2651#info

DreamsUnderStars

Remnant of the False Tower found in ore nodes. HOW. DARE. THEY. They should have remnants from a tower found while picking flowers!

...come to think of it, that still makes sense. Imagine you're out picking bugloss or something for you sick aunt, and you stumble across this obviously-not-a-rock sitting near by. BY JODE YOU'VE FOUND A LEAD!!

Starlock

Wait... you mean you don't compulsively harvest every crafting node you run across while doing stuff?

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU! All those nodes are so lonely!

But don't worry, they can be my friend instead.

In seriousness, though, @YandereGirlfriend highlights the REAL problem with this system. The antiquities system is neat (from what I've used of it so far) but attempts to monetize it are justifying bad game design as often happens with games that focus too much on monetization. In a game where provisioning ingredients and alchemy reagents never spoil, there is no reason to have leads expire other than to psychologically manipulate customers. The fact that expiration dates aren't even visible in the interface further hones this point - apparently you only get to see it when there's not much time left, which is obviously designed to psychologically pressure us to either play compulsively or buy Greymoor.

kaisernick

preevious wrote: »

It's an excellent idea. Leads drop from everything and every zone.
Perfect design. A true stroke of genius.

[snip]
i never said everything and technailly every zone does drop leads [snip]

Starlock wrote: »

Wait... you mean you don't compulsively harvest every crafting node you run across while doing stuff?

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU! All those nodes are so lonely!

of course i do but normally i am doing other things such a questing in the area, something which i have already done in rivenspire multiple times and right now so will everyone else as well which means you are not only fighting rng you now have to fight a dosen or more others for those nodes.


[Edited to remove Baiting]

Starlock

kaisernick wrote: »

of course i do but normally i am doing other things such a questing in the area, something which i have already done in rivenspire multiple times and right now so will everyone else as well which means you are not only fighting rng you now have to fight a dosen or more others for those nodes.

That's fair.

I tell stories with multiple characters, so I guess I'm just content not going out of my way for a lot of this stuff and letting it unfold as part of my natural gameplay. And if it doesn't? Then I'll do without. I sort of had to resolve myself to treat this system that way after learning more about it. To not rush it, to let go of attachment to it, and not let the game play me. I don't like it when games play me. I prefer to play games.... if you know what I mean...

kargen27

I've been doing a few greens and blues on my main character. She has plenty of skill points so there will be no problem there. I'm taking my time and still should be able to do just about anything before it expires. If not I don't really care.

When I read about the Antiquity system I decided to take out a character that has done very little in the game. I am going to use that character to go through all the content in the same order my main did everything. I might skip a few of the side quests in a zone but then again I might do them. Anyway I figure I will find leads on this character as I go along and let my main hunt them down. I haven't looked at any guides or anything so I don't know where anything drops. I decided when I am done with doing stuff on this new character I will look at a list and see what I might have missed. Then decide if I want to go back and try to grab it again.
Been wanting to do the stories again for a while so this is the perfect time.

Sylvermynx

kargen27 wrote: »

I've been doing a few greens and blues on my main character. She has plenty of skill points so there will be no problem there. I'm taking my time and still should be able to do just about anything before it expires. If not I don't really care.

When I read about the Antiquity system I decided to take out a character that has done very little in the game. I am going to use that character to go through all the content in the same order my main did everything. I might skip a few of the side quests in a zone but then again I might do them. Anyway I figure I will find leads on this character as I go along and let my main hunt them down. I haven't looked at any guides or anything so I don't know where anything drops. I decided when I am done with doing stuff on this new character I will look at a list and see what I might have missed. Then decide if I want to go back and try to grab it again.

Been wanting to do the stories again for a while so this is the perfect time.

It's - interesting. Now, given I'm not doing anything with Greymoor until (if?) it becomes a DLC next year, and really the only thing with this chapter I would maybe have an interest in is the antiquities....

I'm conflicted. Because there are HUGE areas of the game that don't seem to be.... coherent. I can't actually even articulate what is causing me heartburn. I'm just sitting here, having played TES since Arena landed (1994 for those who may not know) and wondering how we got here from there. Or there from here, since this game is.... early....

Now.... I may have had (um.... well.... I more than likely HAVE had) more wine than is good for me.... So, 'splain it to me I guess?

ImmortalCX

Op needs an antiquities hireling that mails him new leads every day.

Olauron

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

“But I needz the rewards from the new content RIGHT NOW to check it off my imaginary list.”

Imaginary list? What are you talking about? Text file is not imaginary. Of course I have a list with all wanted furnishings and which characters will use them in their houses, and in what quantities too. That is called "Housing Plan".

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

RNG would be even more infuriating though if we listened to the OP and put all types of leads available from any drop source. Consider: if you have a 15% chance from a World Boss and a 1% chance from a node source, this is actually a much greater RNG chance than if everything were thrown into a single global Antiquities lead loot table.

There are 3 - 5 antiquities per zone (not counting treasures, style pages and antique maps). It is not much.

ValueDrift

At least leads through ore you are doing something to obtain the lead. Trying to get a furnishing lead from a world boss is 20 seconds of fighting followed by five minutes of doing nothing, rinse and repeat 20 times.

ItsMeToo

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Op needs an antiquities hireling that mails him new leads every day.

Now this is a good idea. I want one.

TheShadowScout

Lintashi wrote: »

Next thread will be: why leads drop from overland chests, just give them all to me now, I need to complete all system has to offer in 1 week, and complain further, that I have nothing to do.

^This!^
So much this!

As for the ore nodes...
...for one, you don't need to farm for leads; its enough to just do the normal antiquity hunting, and also take every node you stumble across during that, I had the lead before I was finished with the purple "basic" antiquity.
...for another, you really don't have to finish the whole antiquity thing this week, you can let it lie dormant, find the lead on some alt while questing through rivenspire sometime, and then grab the thing on your antiquarian some other day.

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Op needs an antiquities hireling that mails him new leads every day.

Heh, I totally could see this coming... as a crown store purchase.

Especially since they can always add more antiquities, to every zone... like, some year they might for example add ancestral breton, ancestral bosmer, and ancestral dun... no, wait, "ancestral dunmer" armor would actually be chimer motiv, would it not? Which -totally- would be something -perfect- for antiquity system, just like "nedic motiv" or different styles of ayleid and direnni... or "ancestral imperial" from the alessian rebellions... and it does not even have to be full motivs, partiel outfit-style only things were just as possible as antiquities (like, say, the old "ashlander" style from before Morrowind... or the lich outfit style... or dark seducer as outfit style... or the jesters cap and pixane... or "honored dead" mummy wrappings... or almalexias outfit... or... or... or...)
...and of course, there are so many other things then outfit fun they also could drop in there... heck, they even could add some things as "double" - either buy the thing from a furniture vendor for tons of gold, or put in the time and effort to find it yourself... who knows?

Mr_Walker

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

I think the 30 day expiration is probably the turn off.

I feel the need to level up my skills so I can find them before zos nerf the drop rates. It's almost like it was designed to burn players out. I'd be enjoying it a lot more were I able to feel I could go at my own pace.

I'm only lvl 6 and I already have had enough scrying to last me until my 130th birthday.

tomofhyrule

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

I think the 30 day expiration is probably the turn off.

I feel the need to level up my skills so I can find them before zos nerf the drop rates. It's almost like it was designed to burn players out. I'd be enjoying it a lot more were I able to feel I could go at my own pace.

I'm only lvl 6 and I already have had enough scrying to last me until my 130th birthday.

Yeah, I'm scared about that 30 day expiration. I have one character that I made right after Greymoor dropped specifically to grind dailies, and I'm really starting to get bored with it.

Not gonna lie, antiquities is fun and all, but grinding green/blue leads is really tedious, especially to get that last level of the Scrying skill. And I'm just trying to get to 10 before I lose the Ultimate difficulty leads I got. I've been grinding dungeons to get those higher-level leads for more XP, and they're not dropping, so it's really just frustrating.

It'd be a lot easier to relax if it weren't for this expiration date.

I will say, I do like the leads dropping in many different locations, I just wish some of the 'boss' leads had a bit higher of a drop rate. Grinding dungeons or (I'm really not looking forawrd to) IC gets more annoying once you fail again and again.