PERFECTED DSA and MA WEAPONS: a case of injustice

Algorax · June 2020

Many others have pointed this out, so this post wants to be a collective of all the reasons why this move was a very bad move and more importantly it aims to refute all the "reasons" i red here and there that instead support this decision.

But first a short summary for those players who never heard of this plight.
Since the last patch, several weapons sets, which can be seen here:

https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Weapon+Sets

received a major change in the way they could be obtained. Before the patch, the only way you could put your hands on those powerful weapons was to run a VETERAN version of the istance. But after the patch they added a "normal" drop and here lies the problem: what was before the veteran drop became the normal drop and the new veteran drops received an additional bonus. It then happened, against any logic, that all those many players who obtained one of those weapons BEFORE THE PATCH, enduring the difficulties of a veteran mode, WERE NOT given the rightful veteran item, instead they now find themselves with the "normal" version of the weapon.

So now you have a large number of players who feel deprived of their efforts, facing the unfair circumstance that new players will not have to endure even near their struggle to get their same weapons. This will those hit by this injustice to grind the harder veteran mode again and again, in a tedious grinding that does not even count the many additional grinding needed to gather matherial to improve the weapons to legendary, with the desired glyph and trait...

Now, let's face the truth: there is no reason that could justify this. Someone attempted to do it but here is the sadly obvious answer to each one of their attempts:

1) "They are not the same set anymore, hence you deserve no upgraded version of it."
This is really the dumbest, most insulting and yet most recurring point you will find. The answer is ashamingly simple: there is no reason to consider it a different set. Not a single one of those set was changed in its core, the prefected weapons only have an additional bonus stat. Dozens of sets were CHANGED before, completely removing a previous effect and giving new stats, and yet those players who owned them received the new version the very moment it was upgraded

2) "This was long requested by the players"
Nice try. We never asked to create a gap between players, nor to be treated like idiots, which is what is happening now. What the playerbase was asking was to give those weapons sets which already didn't have, the perfected version, since the last released weapon sets did have a perfected version.

3) "Stop making such a fuss: it's just an additonal stat!"
How to shoot on your own feet: if those stats were not important for you then just run normal, but endgame players may want to get them since it's all about them in the end: statistics and perfomance. If they were not that important they could just not have added them. And this still does not justify the decision to not upgrade what was farmed as veteran drop to a veteran drop.

4) "What' the problem? You just go and farm them again!"
Do not assume that we all love grinding, nor that we have enough time to spend on it over and over, some of us work, some of us have families you know... Besides there is so much conent and other things to do that each second you waste there hurts twice. And again, this still does not justify the decision to not upgrade what was farmed as veteran drop to a veteran drop.

5) "It was all made to make players return at the old content"
And you choose the worst approach possible: stealing rightful rewards and compensations from seasoned veteran players. while you could just add something juicy of any sort to draw more playerbase. And once again, this still does not justify the decision to not upgrade what was farmed as veteran drop to a veteran drop.

And now some final consideration.
Immagine a player who grinded the weapon at the time when there was no transmutation system and he ned to farm it untill the weapon had the right effect AND the right trait.
Immagine a player who is aware that those weapons once HAD the perfected stat, that it was later removed and now they add it back for... "reasons" but they will not grant them to you despite your efforts
Immagine a player who maybe pays for the ESO+ or other things and has to smell the neverending stench of this rot.

The only thing more ashaming than what happened, is the overwhelming compliance and omerta of those who refuse to aknowledge the problem.
Everyting i wrote was not moved by anger, it was not born by the emotion of the moment: it is the most lucid assesment you may find and therefore it will never be altered.

Thank you.

Casul · June 2020

We are the minority and we do not matter is all I got from the explanation given.

Algorax · June 2020

BuildMan wrote: »

We are the minority and we do not matter is all I got from the explanation given.

And yet the devs made a change affecting this minority alone: those who run MA and DSA. I really want to see a logic, a reason behind all this but the sad truth is that there is not.
This is one of those cases of myopia, lack of vision as someone important once said:

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/WideClosedDipper-size_restricted.gif

zvavi · June 2020

You forgot some insults:
6. "The stat doesn't even matter"
perfected maelstrom inferno staff adding 0 dps in good groups is just adding salt to the injury, not a justification not to upgrade it. Hollow titles are the worst.

Stx · June 2020

They made a very unfair decision because they want players to have to re-grind old content.

That's all their is to it. All they care about is players giving them money and spending more time in game.

Algorax · June 2020

Stx wrote: »

They made a very unfair decision because they want players to have to re-grind old content.

That's all their is to it. All they care about is players giving them money and spending more time in game.

This reason was already reported in the OP and already refuted

MartiniDaniels · June 2020

Bro, you are too late for the party, there were furious threads with hundreds of replies month ago... devs answer is this:

BuildMan wrote: »

We (veterans) are the minority and we do not matter is all I got from the explanation given.

Overall, Rich told us that we should be happy with new trial and with new PVP siege tool, heh. Performance is fine, and was improving since U25. If we don't like something, we may stop playing, there is no shortage of new players now.

Algorax · June 2020

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Bro, you are too late for the party, there were furious threads with hundreds of replies month ago... devs answer is this:

BuildMan wrote: »

We (veterans) are the minority and we do not matter is all I got from the explanation given.

Overall, Rich told us that we should be happy with new trial and with new PVP siege tool, heh. Performance is fine, and was improving since U25. If we don't like something, we may stop playing, there is no shortage of new players now.

I already wrote on the OP that i am aware that this problem was already exposed, and how coult it not?
The reason of the post is to refute any reason for this decision provided so far.

Btw with that statement the dev team basically made 2 things:

1) They implicitly aknowledged the problem
2) They alienated their own loyal core of users (most likely the paying one)
3) [Snip]

[Edited for bashing]

Lole · June 2020

Algorax wrote: »

Many others have pointed this out, so this post wants to be a collective of all the reasons why this move was a very bad move and more importantly it aims to refute all the "reasons" i red here and there that instead support this decision.

But first a short summary for those players who never heard of this plight.
Since the last patch, several weapons sets, which can be seen here:

https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Weapon+Sets

received a major change in the way they could be obtained. Before the patch, the only way you could put your hands on those powerful weapons was to run a VETERAN version of the istance. But after the patch they added a "normal" drop and here lies the problem: what was before the veteran drop became the normal drop and the new veteran drops received an additional bonus. It then happened, against any logic, that all those many players who obtained one of those weapons BEFORE THE PATCH, enduring the difficulties of a veteran mode, WERE NOT given the rightful veteran item, instead they now find themselves with the "normal" version of the weapon.

So now you have a large number of players who feel deprived of their efforts, facing the unfair circumstance that new players will not have to endure even near their struggle to get their same weapons. This will those hit by this injustice to grind the harder veteran mode again and again, in a tedious grinding that does not even count the many additional grinding needed to gather matherial to improve the weapons to legendary, with the desired glyph and trait...

Now, let's face the truth: there is no reason that could justify this. Someone attempted to do it but here is the sadly obvious answer to each one of their attempts:

1) "They are not the same set anymore, hence you deserve no upgraded version of it."
This is really the dumbest, most insulting and yet most recurring point you will find. The answer is ashamingly simple: there is no reason to consider it a different set. Not a single one of those set was changed in its core, the prefected weapons only have an additional bonus stat. Dozens of sets were CHANGED before, completely removing a previous effect and giving new stats, and yet those players who owned them received the new version the very moment it was upgraded

2) "This was long requested by the players"
Nice try. We never asked to create a gap between players, nor to be treated like idiots, which is what is happening now. What the playerbase was asking was to give those weapons sets which already didn't have, the perfected version, since the last released weapon sets did have a perfected version.

3) "Stop making such a fuss: it's just an additonal stat!"
How to shoot on your own feet: if those stats were not important for you then just run normal, but endgame players may want to get them since it's all about them in the end: statistics and perfomance. If they were not that important they could just not have added them. And this still does not justify the decision to not upgrade what was farmed as veteran drop to a veteran drop.

4) "What' the problem? You just go and farm them again!"
Do not assume that we all love grinding, nor that we have enough time to spend on it over and over, some of us work, some of us have families you know... Besides there is so much conent and other things to do that each second you waste there hurts twice. And again, this still does not justify the decision to not upgrade what was farmed as veteran drop to a veteran drop.

5) "It was all made to make players return at the old content"
And you choose the worst approach possible: stealing rightful rewards and compensations from seasoned veteran players. while you could just add something juicy of any sort to draw more playerbase. And once again, this still does not justify the decision to not upgrade what was farmed as veteran drop to a veteran drop.

And now some final consideration.
Immagine a player who grinded the weapon at the time when there was no transmutation system and he ned to farm it untill the weapon had the right effect AND the right trait.
Immagine a player who is aware that those weapons once HAD the perfected stat, that it was later removed and now they add it back for... "reasons" but they will not grant them to you despite your efforts
Immagine a player who maybe pays for the ESO+ or other things and has to smell the neverending stench of this rot.

The only thing more ashaming than what happened, is the overwhelming compliance and omerta of those who refuse to aknowledge the problem.
Everyting i wrote was not moved by anger, it was not born by the emotion of the moment: it is the most lucid assesment you may find and therefore it will never be altered.

Thank you.

Sry but you won’t get an upgraded weapon for free... do something for it or leave it, there are 3 versions of the weapon, you farmed for number 2 so you got number 2, upgrading it to 3 for free is not a solution

2 seasons ago I was pretty high rated in wow Arena 3on3, should I ask blizzard if I can get my stuff upgraded to the current best arena rewards possible ?:)
Might make me start playing wow again actually, stuff for free is allways nice

CassandraGemini · June 2020

Lole wrote: »

Algorax wrote: »

Many others have pointed this out, so this post wants to be a collective of all the reasons why this move was a very bad move and more importantly it aims to refute all the "reasons" i red here and there that instead support this decision.

But first a short summary for those players who never heard of this plight.
Since the last patch, several weapons sets, which can be seen here:

https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Weapon+Sets

received a major change in the way they could be obtained. Before the patch, the only way you could put your hands on those powerful weapons was to run a VETERAN version of the istance. But after the patch they added a "normal" drop and here lies the problem: what was before the veteran drop became the normal drop and the new veteran drops received an additional bonus. It then happened, against any logic, that all those many players who obtained one of those weapons BEFORE THE PATCH, enduring the difficulties of a veteran mode, WERE NOT given the rightful veteran item, instead they now find themselves with the "normal" version of the weapon.

So now you have a large number of players who feel deprived of their efforts, facing the unfair circumstance that new players will not have to endure even near their struggle to get their same weapons. This will those hit by this injustice to grind the harder veteran mode again and again, in a tedious grinding that does not even count the many additional grinding needed to gather matherial to improve the weapons to legendary, with the desired glyph and trait...

Now, let's face the truth: there is no reason that could justify this. Someone attempted to do it but here is the sadly obvious answer to each one of their attempts:

1) "They are not the same set anymore, hence you deserve no upgraded version of it."
This is really the dumbest, most insulting and yet most recurring point you will find. The answer is ashamingly simple: there is no reason to consider it a different set. Not a single one of those set was changed in its core, the prefected weapons only have an additional bonus stat. Dozens of sets were CHANGED before, completely removing a previous effect and giving new stats, and yet those players who owned them received the new version the very moment it was upgraded

2) "This was long requested by the players"
Nice try. We never asked to create a gap between players, nor to be treated like idiots, which is what is happening now. What the playerbase was asking was to give those weapons sets which already didn't have, the perfected version, since the last released weapon sets did have a perfected version.

3) "Stop making such a fuss: it's just an additonal stat!"
How to shoot on your own feet: if those stats were not important for you then just run normal, but endgame players may want to get them since it's all about them in the end: statistics and perfomance. If they were not that important they could just not have added them. And this still does not justify the decision to not upgrade what was farmed as veteran drop to a veteran drop.

4) "What' the problem? You just go and farm them again!"
Do not assume that we all love grinding, nor that we have enough time to spend on it over and over, some of us work, some of us have families you know... Besides there is so much conent and other things to do that each second you waste there hurts twice. And again, this still does not justify the decision to not upgrade what was farmed as veteran drop to a veteran drop.

5) "It was all made to make players return at the old content"
And you choose the worst approach possible: stealing rightful rewards and compensations from seasoned veteran players. while you could just add something juicy of any sort to draw more playerbase. And once again, this still does not justify the decision to not upgrade what was farmed as veteran drop to a veteran drop.

And now some final consideration.
Immagine a player who grinded the weapon at the time when there was no transmutation system and he ned to farm it untill the weapon had the right effect AND the right trait.
Immagine a player who is aware that those weapons once HAD the perfected stat, that it was later removed and now they add it back for... "reasons" but they will not grant them to you despite your efforts
Immagine a player who maybe pays for the ESO+ or other things and has to smell the neverending stench of this rot.

The only thing more ashaming than what happened, is the overwhelming compliance and omerta of those who refuse to aknowledge the problem.
Everyting i wrote was not moved by anger, it was not born by the emotion of the moment: it is the most lucid assesment you may find and therefore it will never be altered.

Thank you.

Sry but you won’t get an upgraded weapon for free... do something for it or leave it, there are 3 versions of the weapon, you farmed for number 2 so you got number 2, upgrading it to 3 for free is not a solution

2 seasons ago I was pretty high rated in wow Arena 3on3, should I ask blizzard if I can get my stuff upgraded to the current best arena rewards possible ?:)
Might make me start playing wow again actually, stuff for free is allways nice

I might be misinformed here, but AFAIK there are only 2 versions: The "normal" weapons you get from completing nMA/nDSA, which are identical to the ones we got before for completing vMA/vDSA. And then there's the new "perfected" versions that now only drop from vMA/vDSA.
And while I don't know anything about WoW I'm pretty sure that MA and DSA haven't really been changed significantly so that it would be justified to say: "Well, okay, if you want the new reward you gotta run this thing again", because... we already did that. We did the exact thing required to get the new perfected versions of those weapons (depending on RNG a lot of folks probably more than just a few times) and yet they don't get upgraded and we're supposed to do it again because of... what? There's really no good reason to justify this decision, like, at all. It seems completely arbitrary, just to make people come back to old content.

But, alas, there is also nothing to be done about it. Anyone who's seen the Discord chat where Rich Lambert talked about this will know that he's not going to change his mind about it. We can whine and moan about it all we want, it's not going to do any good, it's just a waste of time. Some things, like the racial passives, I consider different and I still believe that there might be a chance for ZOS to revisit those if people keep bringing them up often enough. This, however, is not one of those things, so I guess I'll just live with it and try to ignore how much it sucks. Don't really want to invest my time and energy into being bummed about something like this.

Algorax · June 2020

Lole wrote: »

Algorax wrote: »

Many others have pointed this out, so this post wants to be a collective of all the reasons why this move was a very bad move and more importantly it aims to refute all the "reasons" i red here and there that instead support this decision.

But first a short summary for those players who never heard of this plight.
Since the last patch, several weapons sets, which can be seen here:

https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Weapon+Sets

received a major change in the way they could be obtained. Before the patch, the only way you could put your hands on those powerful weapons was to run a VETERAN version of the istance. But after the patch they added a "normal" drop and here lies the problem: what was before the veteran drop became the normal drop and the new veteran drops received an additional bonus. It then happened, against any logic, that all those many players who obtained one of those weapons BEFORE THE PATCH, enduring the difficulties of a veteran mode, WERE NOT given the rightful veteran item, instead they now find themselves with the "normal" version of the weapon.

So now you have a large number of players who feel deprived of their efforts, facing the unfair circumstance that new players will not have to endure even near their struggle to get their same weapons. This will those hit by this injustice to grind the harder veteran mode again and again, in a tedious grinding that does not even count the many additional grinding needed to gather matherial to improve the weapons to legendary, with the desired glyph and trait...

Now, let's face the truth: there is no reason that could justify this. Someone attempted to do it but here is the sadly obvious answer to each one of their attempts:

1) "They are not the same set anymore, hence you deserve no upgraded version of it."
This is really the dumbest, most insulting and yet most recurring point you will find. The answer is ashamingly simple: there is no reason to consider it a different set. Not a single one of those set was changed in its core, the prefected weapons only have an additional bonus stat. Dozens of sets were CHANGED before, completely removing a previous effect and giving new stats, and yet those players who owned them received the new version the very moment it was upgraded

2) "This was long requested by the players"
Nice try. We never asked to create a gap between players, nor to be treated like idiots, which is what is happening now. What the playerbase was asking was to give those weapons sets which already didn't have, the perfected version, since the last released weapon sets did have a perfected version.

3) "Stop making such a fuss: it's just an additonal stat!"
How to shoot on your own feet: if those stats were not important for you then just run normal, but endgame players may want to get them since it's all about them in the end: statistics and perfomance. If they were not that important they could just not have added them. And this still does not justify the decision to not upgrade what was farmed as veteran drop to a veteran drop.

4) "What' the problem? You just go and farm them again!"
Do not assume that we all love grinding, nor that we have enough time to spend on it over and over, some of us work, some of us have families you know... Besides there is so much conent and other things to do that each second you waste there hurts twice. And again, this still does not justify the decision to not upgrade what was farmed as veteran drop to a veteran drop.

5) "It was all made to make players return at the old content"
And you choose the worst approach possible: stealing rightful rewards and compensations from seasoned veteran players. while you could just add something juicy of any sort to draw more playerbase. And once again, this still does not justify the decision to not upgrade what was farmed as veteran drop to a veteran drop.

And now some final consideration.
Immagine a player who grinded the weapon at the time when there was no transmutation system and he ned to farm it untill the weapon had the right effect AND the right trait.
Immagine a player who is aware that those weapons once HAD the perfected stat, that it was later removed and now they add it back for... "reasons" but they will not grant them to you despite your efforts
Immagine a player who maybe pays for the ESO+ or other things and has to smell the neverending stench of this rot.

The only thing more ashaming than what happened, is the overwhelming compliance and omerta of those who refuse to aknowledge the problem.
Everyting i wrote was not moved by anger, it was not born by the emotion of the moment: it is the most lucid assesment you may find and therefore it will never be altered.

Thank you.

Sry but you won’t get an upgraded weapon for free... do something for it or leave it, there are 3 versions of the weapon, you farmed for number 2 so you got number 2, upgrading it to 3 for free is not a solution

2 seasons ago I was pretty high rated in wow Arena 3on3, should I ask blizzard if I can get my stuff upgraded to the current best arena rewards possible ?:)
Might make me start playing wow again actually, stuff for free is allways nice

I wouldn't get anything i didn't eraned in the first place. I endured a veteran run, my compensation shall be in accordance to that. Simple as that.
There is no such thing as 3 versions of the weapon: what i got now is a mere normal run weapon despite my effors in veteran runs.
Wow Arena gear tiers are totally different items from one another, so you would be the one demanding something not earned. The same does not occur here.

MartiniDaniels · June 2020

Algorax wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Bro, you are too late for the party, there were furious threads with hundreds of replies month ago... devs answer is this:

BuildMan wrote: »

We (veterans) are the minority and we do not matter is all I got from the explanation given.

Overall, Rich told us that we should be happy with new trial and with new PVP siege tool, heh. Performance is fine, and was improving since U25. If we don't like something, we may stop playing, there is no shortage of new players now.

I already wrote on the OP that i am aware that this problem was already exposed, and how coult it not?
The reason of the post is to refute any reason for this decision provided so far.

Btw with that statement the dev team basically made 2 things:

1) They implicitly aknowledged the problem
2) They alienated their own loyal core of users (most likely the paying one)
3) [Snip]

[Edited for bashing]

As you can saw from Rich's interview, there is no any reason for this decision. They simply don't care about veteran players, because there are not so many of us in comparison to amount of new whales ZOS recently got. More then that, ZOS maybe even tired with all the endless whining and bashing and they want veterans which don't pay to go away (those who pay will remain, because they already payed for this game anyway).
Now we can only count that ZOS will make some investments into server infrastructure so whales won't swam away to New World or Shadowlands...

Algorax · June 2020

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Lole wrote: »

Algorax wrote: »

Many others have pointed this out, so this post wants to be a collective of all the reasons why this move was a very bad move and more importantly it aims to refute all the "reasons" i red here and there that instead support this decision.

But first a short summary for those players who never heard of this plight.
Since the last patch, several weapons sets, which can be seen here:

https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Weapon+Sets

received a major change in the way they could be obtained. Before the patch, the only way you could put your hands on those powerful weapons was to run a VETERAN version of the istance. But after the patch they added a "normal" drop and here lies the problem: what was before the veteran drop became the normal drop and the new veteran drops received an additional bonus. It then happened, against any logic, that all those many players who obtained one of those weapons BEFORE THE PATCH, enduring the difficulties of a veteran mode, WERE NOT given the rightful veteran item, instead they now find themselves with the "normal" version of the weapon.

So now you have a large number of players who feel deprived of their efforts, facing the unfair circumstance that new players will not have to endure even near their struggle to get their same weapons. This will those hit by this injustice to grind the harder veteran mode again and again, in a tedious grinding that does not even count the many additional grinding needed to gather matherial to improve the weapons to legendary, with the desired glyph and trait...

Now, let's face the truth: there is no reason that could justify this. Someone attempted to do it but here is the sadly obvious answer to each one of their attempts:

1) "They are not the same set anymore, hence you deserve no upgraded version of it."
This is really the dumbest, most insulting and yet most recurring point you will find. The answer is ashamingly simple: there is no reason to consider it a different set. Not a single one of those set was changed in its core, the prefected weapons only have an additional bonus stat. Dozens of sets were CHANGED before, completely removing a previous effect and giving new stats, and yet those players who owned them received the new version the very moment it was upgraded

2) "This was long requested by the players"
Nice try. We never asked to create a gap between players, nor to be treated like idiots, which is what is happening now. What the playerbase was asking was to give those weapons sets which already didn't have, the perfected version, since the last released weapon sets did have a perfected version.

3) "Stop making such a fuss: it's just an additonal stat!"
How to shoot on your own feet: if those stats were not important for you then just run normal, but endgame players may want to get them since it's all about them in the end: statistics and perfomance. If they were not that important they could just not have added them. And this still does not justify the decision to not upgrade what was farmed as veteran drop to a veteran drop.

4) "What' the problem? You just go and farm them again!"
Do not assume that we all love grinding, nor that we have enough time to spend on it over and over, some of us work, some of us have families you know... Besides there is so much conent and other things to do that each second you waste there hurts twice. And again, this still does not justify the decision to not upgrade what was farmed as veteran drop to a veteran drop.

5) "It was all made to make players return at the old content"
And you choose the worst approach possible: stealing rightful rewards and compensations from seasoned veteran players. while you could just add something juicy of any sort to draw more playerbase. And once again, this still does not justify the decision to not upgrade what was farmed as veteran drop to a veteran drop.

And now some final consideration.
Immagine a player who grinded the weapon at the time when there was no transmutation system and he ned to farm it untill the weapon had the right effect AND the right trait.
Immagine a player who is aware that those weapons once HAD the perfected stat, that it was later removed and now they add it back for... "reasons" but they will not grant them to you despite your efforts
Immagine a player who maybe pays for the ESO+ or other things and has to smell the neverending stench of this rot.

The only thing more ashaming than what happened, is the overwhelming compliance and omerta of those who refuse to aknowledge the problem.
Everyting i wrote was not moved by anger, it was not born by the emotion of the moment: it is the most lucid assesment you may find and therefore it will never be altered.

Thank you.

Sry but you won’t get an upgraded weapon for free... do something for it or leave it, there are 3 versions of the weapon, you farmed for number 2 so you got number 2, upgrading it to 3 for free is not a solution

2 seasons ago I was pretty high rated in wow Arena 3on3, should I ask blizzard if I can get my stuff upgraded to the current best arena rewards possible ?:)
Might make me start playing wow again actually, stuff for free is allways nice

I might be misinformed here, but AFAIK there are only 2 versions: The "normal" weapons you get from completing nMA/nDSA, which are identical to the ones we got before for completing vMA/vDSA. And then there's the new "perfected" versions that now only drop from vMA/vDSA.
And while I don't know anything about WoW I'm pretty sure that MA and DSA haven't really been changed significantly so that it would be justified to say: "Well, okay, if you want the new reward you gotta run this thing again", because... we already did that. We did the exact thing required to get the new perfected versions of those weapons (depending on RNG a lot of folks probably more than just a few times) and yet they don't get upgraded and we're supposed to do it again because of... what? There's really no good reason to justify this decision, like, at all. It seems completely arbitrary, just to make people come back to old content.

But, alas, there is also nothing to be done about it. Anyone who's seen the Discord chat where Rich Lambert talked about this will know that he's not going to change his mind about it. We can whine and moan about it all we want, it's not going to do any good, it's just a waste of time. Some things, like the racial passives, I consider different and I still believe that there might be a chance for ZOS to revisit those if people keep bringing them up often enough. This, however, is not one of those things, so I guess I'll just live with it and try to ignore how much it sucks. Don't really want to invest my time and energy into being bummed about something like this.

In case someone still had some doubt about the fact that this is a not so much hidden offence to our intellect...

Algorax · June 2020

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Algorax wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Bro, you are too late for the party, there were furious threads with hundreds of replies month ago... devs answer is this:

BuildMan wrote: »

We (veterans) are the minority and we do not matter is all I got from the explanation given.

Overall, Rich told us that we should be happy with new trial and with new PVP siege tool, heh. Performance is fine, and was improving since U25. If we don't like something, we may stop playing, there is no shortage of new players now.

I already wrote on the OP that i am aware that this problem was already exposed, and how coult it not?
The reason of the post is to refute any reason for this decision provided so far.

Btw with that statement the dev team basically made 2 things:

1) They implicitly aknowledged the problem
2) They alienated their own loyal core of users (most likely the paying one)
3) They proved to be too lazy to solve their own mistake

As you can saw from Rich's interview, there is no any reason for this decision. They simply don't care about veteran players, because there are not so many of us in comparison to amount of new whales ZOS recently got. More then that, ZOS maybe even tired with all the endless whining and bashing and they want veterans which don't pay to go away (those who pay will remain, because they already payed for this game anyway).
Now we can only count that ZOS will make some investments into server infrastructure so whales won't swam away to New World or Shadowlands...

That's true, bitter yes but we must face it. In my experience with other titles, this is not a good sign for the direction a game is taking...

Oreyn_Bearclaw · June 2020

Lole wrote: »

Algorax wrote: »

Many others have pointed this out, so this post wants to be a collective of all the reasons why this move was a very bad move and more importantly it aims to refute all the "reasons" i red here and there that instead support this decision.

But first a short summary for those players who never heard of this plight.
Since the last patch, several weapons sets, which can be seen here:

https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Weapon+Sets

received a major change in the way they could be obtained. Before the patch, the only way you could put your hands on those powerful weapons was to run a VETERAN version of the istance. But after the patch they added a "normal" drop and here lies the problem: what was before the veteran drop became the normal drop and the new veteran drops received an additional bonus. It then happened, against any logic, that all those many players who obtained one of those weapons BEFORE THE PATCH, enduring the difficulties of a veteran mode, WERE NOT given the rightful veteran item, instead they now find themselves with the "normal" version of the weapon.

So now you have a large number of players who feel deprived of their efforts, facing the unfair circumstance that new players will not have to endure even near their struggle to get their same weapons. This will those hit by this injustice to grind the harder veteran mode again and again, in a tedious grinding that does not even count the many additional grinding needed to gather matherial to improve the weapons to legendary, with the desired glyph and trait...

Now, let's face the truth: there is no reason that could justify this. Someone attempted to do it but here is the sadly obvious answer to each one of their attempts:

1) "They are not the same set anymore, hence you deserve no upgraded version of it."
This is really the dumbest, most insulting and yet most recurring point you will find. The answer is ashamingly simple: there is no reason to consider it a different set. Not a single one of those set was changed in its core, the prefected weapons only have an additional bonus stat. Dozens of sets were CHANGED before, completely removing a previous effect and giving new stats, and yet those players who owned them received the new version the very moment it was upgraded

2) "This was long requested by the players"
Nice try. We never asked to create a gap between players, nor to be treated like idiots, which is what is happening now. What the playerbase was asking was to give those weapons sets which already didn't have, the perfected version, since the last released weapon sets did have a perfected version.

3) "Stop making such a fuss: it's just an additonal stat!"
How to shoot on your own feet: if those stats were not important for you then just run normal, but endgame players may want to get them since it's all about them in the end: statistics and perfomance. If they were not that important they could just not have added them. And this still does not justify the decision to not upgrade what was farmed as veteran drop to a veteran drop.

4) "What' the problem? You just go and farm them again!"
Do not assume that we all love grinding, nor that we have enough time to spend on it over and over, some of us work, some of us have families you know... Besides there is so much conent and other things to do that each second you waste there hurts twice. And again, this still does not justify the decision to not upgrade what was farmed as veteran drop to a veteran drop.

5) "It was all made to make players return at the old content"
And you choose the worst approach possible: stealing rightful rewards and compensations from seasoned veteran players. while you could just add something juicy of any sort to draw more playerbase. And once again, this still does not justify the decision to not upgrade what was farmed as veteran drop to a veteran drop.

And now some final consideration.
Immagine a player who grinded the weapon at the time when there was no transmutation system and he ned to farm it untill the weapon had the right effect AND the right trait.
Immagine a player who is aware that those weapons once HAD the perfected stat, that it was later removed and now they add it back for... "reasons" but they will not grant them to you despite your efforts
Immagine a player who maybe pays for the ESO+ or other things and has to smell the neverending stench of this rot.

The only thing more ashaming than what happened, is the overwhelming compliance and omerta of those who refuse to aknowledge the problem.
Everyting i wrote was not moved by anger, it was not born by the emotion of the moment: it is the most lucid assesment you may find and therefore it will never be altered.

Thank you.

Sry but you won’t get an upgraded weapon for free... do something for it or leave it, there are 3 versions of the weapon, you farmed for number 2 so you got number 2, upgrading it to 3 for free is not a solution

2 seasons ago I was pretty high rated in wow Arena 3on3, should I ask blizzard if I can get my stuff upgraded to the current best arena rewards possible ?:)
Might make me start playing wow again actually, stuff for free is allways nice

You are both right and wrong. Yes there are 3 versions of the weapon, but not the ones you described. In your world 1=2. There was originally a 3rd version of the weapon but that was removed via nerf, and then given back to us (slightly different) at the end of another grind.

4 Types of people support this as far as I can tell.

1. Those that were never going to clear VMA. The reality is, their DPS is likely so low that the weapons dont matter anyway.
2. People that will blindly follow and support ZOS, even if they are leading them straight off the side of the cliff.
3. Trolls. Some people just want the world to burn.
4. People with a financial stake in ZOS.

#GRINDMOOR

GrumpyDuckling · June 2020

Here are 3 facts:

Rich Lambert said VMA is "definitely one of [his] favorite pieces of content" (ESO Live 3/2/18).
Rich Lambert confirms he still runs VMA "a ton" (Twitch interview from last week).
Rich Lambert confirms that it was he alone who chose not to upgrade weapons (Twitch interview from two weeks ago).

Draw your own conclusion from these 3 facts -- for me, they point to why the weapons were not upgraded.

idk · June 2020

I really do not understand these arguments. Would players have preferred Zos to make a more challenging HM version of vMA and vDSA that we would have to clear and farm to get these new and improved weapons?

Personally, I am glad I do not have to clear a more challenging content to get these new perfected weapons as it makes the farming easier.

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Here are 3 facts:
Rich Lambert said VMA is "definitely one of [his] favorite pieces of content" (ESO Live 3/2/18).

Rich Lambert confirms he still runs VMA "a ton" (Twitch interview from last week).

Rich Lambert confirms that it was he alone who chose not to upgrade weapons (Twitch interview from two weeks ago).

Draw your own conclusion from these 3 facts -- for me, they point to why the weapons were not upgraded.

Yes, Rich has run vMA a lot. However, I think his comment that it was his decision was that he is the boss. Technically it was Matt Firor's decision as Matt is really the boss.

MartiniDaniels · June 2020

Algorax wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Algorax wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Bro, you are too late for the party, there were furious threads with hundreds of replies month ago... devs answer is this:

BuildMan wrote: »

We (veterans) are the minority and we do not matter is all I got from the explanation given.

Overall, Rich told us that we should be happy with new trial and with new PVP siege tool, heh. Performance is fine, and was improving since U25. If we don't like something, we may stop playing, there is no shortage of new players now.

I already wrote on the OP that i am aware that this problem was already exposed, and how coult it not?
The reason of the post is to refute any reason for this decision provided so far.

Btw with that statement the dev team basically made 2 things:

1) They implicitly aknowledged the problem
2) They alienated their own loyal core of users (most likely the paying one)
3) They proved to be too lazy to solve their own mistake

As you can saw from Rich's interview, there is no any reason for this decision. They simply don't care about veteran players, because there are not so many of us in comparison to amount of new whales ZOS recently got. More then that, ZOS maybe even tired with all the endless whining and bashing and they want veterans which don't pay to go away (those who pay will remain, because they already payed for this game anyway).
Now we can only count that ZOS will make some investments into server infrastructure so whales won't swam away to New World or Shadowlands...

That's true, bitter yes but we must face it. In my experience with other titles, this is not a good sign for the direction a game is taking...

Really bad sign is when usually positive and constructive players like WrathOfInnos and Oreyn_Bearclaw are becoming negative to ZOS and this game...

GrumpyDuckling · June 2020

idk wrote: »

I really do not understand these arguments. Would players have preferred Zos to make a more challenging HM version of vMA and vDSA that we would have to clear and farm to get these new and improved weapons?

Personally, I am glad I do not have to clear a more challenging content to get these new perfected weapons as it makes the farming easier.

I haven't seen many players who are asking for harder versions of VMA and VDSA. Most of the thoughtful posts I have seen focus on [paraphrasing] how silly it is that a June 9th veteran difficulty clear offers the normal version of the weapons, while a June 10th veteran difficulty clear offers a perfected version. Both players triumphed over the same content -- so it doesn't make sense that one receives the better version of the reward at an arbitrary date all because the creative director of the game said so...

Also, the decision not to update existing gear is inconsistent with the gear standards they established when they stopped raising gear levels.

Algorax · June 2020

idk wrote: »

I really do not understand these arguments. Would players have preferred Zos to make a more challenging HM version of vMA and vDSA that we would have to clear and farm to get these new and improved weapons?

Personally, I am glad I do not have to clear a more challenging content to get these new perfected weapons as it makes the farming easier.

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Here are 3 facts:
Rich Lambert said VMA is "definitely one of [his] favorite pieces of content" (ESO Live 3/2/18).

Rich Lambert confirms he still runs VMA "a ton" (Twitch interview from last week).

Rich Lambert confirms that it was he alone who chose not to upgrade weapons (Twitch interview from two weeks ago).

Draw your own conclusion from these 3 facts -- for me, they point to why the weapons were not upgraded.

Yes, Rich has run vMA a lot. However, I think his comment that it was his decision was that he is the boss. Technically it was Matt Firor's decision as Matt is really the boss.

No man, am for this kind of comment i understand you never read the OP.
The point is that ppl who got veteran weapons, undertaking several veteran runs should rightfully maintain what they earned. It's not a matter of getting someting new or to deny lower, easyer weapons to new players: it's just a matter of not being robbed by something we earned.

And about Rich's statement, that was really genious: he had the chance to save the face, sneak off and spread the blame for what's clearly a mistake among several undefined members of the staff and instead he opted, out a misplaced sense of power and superiority, for taking what he apparently truly believes is the "merit" for a properly tought decision. Great move

Oreyn_Bearclaw · June 2020

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Algorax wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Algorax wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Bro, you are too late for the party, there were furious threads with hundreds of replies month ago... devs answer is this:

BuildMan wrote: »

We (veterans) are the minority and we do not matter is all I got from the explanation given.

Overall, Rich told us that we should be happy with new trial and with new PVP siege tool, heh. Performance is fine, and was improving since U25. If we don't like something, we may stop playing, there is no shortage of new players now.

I already wrote on the OP that i am aware that this problem was already exposed, and how coult it not?
The reason of the post is to refute any reason for this decision provided so far.

Btw with that statement the dev team basically made 2 things:

1) They implicitly aknowledged the problem
2) They alienated their own loyal core of users (most likely the paying one)
3) They proved to be too lazy to solve their own mistake

As you can saw from Rich's interview, there is no any reason for this decision. They simply don't care about veteran players, because there are not so many of us in comparison to amount of new whales ZOS recently got. More then that, ZOS maybe even tired with all the endless whining and bashing and they want veterans which don't pay to go away (those who pay will remain, because they already payed for this game anyway).
Now we can only count that ZOS will make some investments into server infrastructure so whales won't swam away to New World or Shadowlands...

That's true, bitter yes but we must face it. In my experience with other titles, this is not a good sign for the direction a game is taking...

Really bad sign is when usually positive and constructive players like WrathOfInnos and Oreyn_Bearclaw are becoming negative to ZOS and this game...

@MartiniDaniels

I am trying to remain positive, I promise. They are making it harder and harder each patch. I do appreciate the kind words.

To be honest, this issue is pretty low on my list of grievances, but it just feels unnecessary and a bit like a slap in the face. I already have 2 perfected infernos. I decided to give myself the carrot of getting Flawless on every class, magic and stam. I have 3 to go (9/12 done).

Once that is done, I will no longer run VMA (no matter what they put at the end of it), and the weapons I have will be the weapons I have. I really dont know how many times I have run that place. I know people love to boast insane numbers of runs that are probably exaggerated. I cleared a month after it dropped. I grinded infernos before trait change. When trait changed was introduced, I had VMA weapons spread across 2 mules. I deconed all but 5 of every type, which was still a huge amount to save. The reality is that most of them have been sitting on a mule for years, and the new ones add a minuscule amount of DPS. Doesnt make it feel any better though.

karekiz · June 2020

Would have been a great time to introduce a token system for VMA/VDSA/VAS/VBRP - essentially anything with Arena style weapons would have a token assigned to them for vet clears only and increased rewards for better clears <no death = more tokens etc>.

Ohh well

Algorax · June 2020

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Algorax wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Algorax wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Bro, you are too late for the party, there were furious threads with hundreds of replies month ago... devs answer is this:

BuildMan wrote: »

We (veterans) are the minority and we do not matter is all I got from the explanation given.

Overall, Rich told us that we should be happy with new trial and with new PVP siege tool, heh. Performance is fine, and was improving since U25. If we don't like something, we may stop playing, there is no shortage of new players now.

I already wrote on the OP that i am aware that this problem was already exposed, and how coult it not?
The reason of the post is to refute any reason for this decision provided so far.

Btw with that statement the dev team basically made 2 things:

1) They implicitly aknowledged the problem
2) They alienated their own loyal core of users (most likely the paying one)
3) They proved to be too lazy to solve their own mistake

As you can saw from Rich's interview, there is no any reason for this decision. They simply don't care about veteran players, because there are not so many of us in comparison to amount of new whales ZOS recently got. More then that, ZOS maybe even tired with all the endless whining and bashing and they want veterans which don't pay to go away (those who pay will remain, because they already payed for this game anyway).
Now we can only count that ZOS will make some investments into server infrastructure so whales won't swam away to New World or Shadowlands...

That's true, bitter yes but we must face it. In my experience with other titles, this is not a good sign for the direction a game is taking...

Really bad sign is when usually positive and constructive players like WrathOfInnos and Oreyn_Bearclaw are becoming negative to ZOS and this game...

@MartiniDaniels

I am trying to remain positive, I promise. They are making it harder and harder each patch. I do appreciate the kind words.

To be honest, this issue is pretty low on my list of grievances, but it just feels unnecessary and a bit like a slap in the face. I already have 2 perfected infernos. I decided to give myself the carrot of getting Flawless on every class, magic and stam. I have 3 to go (9/12 done).

Once that is done, I will no longer run VMA (no matter what they put at the end of it), and the weapons I have will be the weapons I have. I really dont know how many times I have run that place. I know people love to boast insane numbers of runs that are probably exaggerated. I cleared a month after it dropped. I grinded infernos before trait change. When trait changed was introduced, I had VMA weapons spread across 2 mules. I deconed all but 5 of every type, which was still a huge amount to save. The reality is that most of them have been sitting on a mule for years, and the new ones add a minuscule amount of DPS. Doesnt make it feel any better though.

Exaggerated numbers or not, i know that i have 4 items, 4 legendary, fully upgraded, transmuted and properly engraved weapons and i will have to run those veteran challenges many more times, not to mention the grinding for the materials needed to upgrade those weapons.
But that's beyond the point: even those who were lucky and got the weapon they wanted at the first shot deseve the proper veteran version.

Shantu · June 2020

AS much as I agree with the sentiment behind this thread, I do feel it suffers a little from the "beating a dead horse" syndrome. Rich Lambert doesn't care about what feels just or right about the issue. So I'm not sure what else needs to be said.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · June 2020

Algorax wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Algorax wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Algorax wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Bro, you are too late for the party, there were furious threads with hundreds of replies month ago... devs answer is this:

BuildMan wrote: »

We (veterans) are the minority and we do not matter is all I got from the explanation given.

Overall, Rich told us that we should be happy with new trial and with new PVP siege tool, heh. Performance is fine, and was improving since U25. If we don't like something, we may stop playing, there is no shortage of new players now.

I already wrote on the OP that i am aware that this problem was already exposed, and how coult it not?
The reason of the post is to refute any reason for this decision provided so far.

Btw with that statement the dev team basically made 2 things:

1) They implicitly aknowledged the problem
2) They alienated their own loyal core of users (most likely the paying one)
3) They proved to be too lazy to solve their own mistake

As you can saw from Rich's interview, there is no any reason for this decision. They simply don't care about veteran players, because there are not so many of us in comparison to amount of new whales ZOS recently got. More then that, ZOS maybe even tired with all the endless whining and bashing and they want veterans which don't pay to go away (those who pay will remain, because they already payed for this game anyway).
Now we can only count that ZOS will make some investments into server infrastructure so whales won't swam away to New World or Shadowlands...

That's true, bitter yes but we must face it. In my experience with other titles, this is not a good sign for the direction a game is taking...

Really bad sign is when usually positive and constructive players like WrathOfInnos and Oreyn_Bearclaw are becoming negative to ZOS and this game...

@MartiniDaniels

I am trying to remain positive, I promise. They are making it harder and harder each patch. I do appreciate the kind words.

To be honest, this issue is pretty low on my list of grievances, but it just feels unnecessary and a bit like a slap in the face. I already have 2 perfected infernos. I decided to give myself the carrot of getting Flawless on every class, magic and stam. I have 3 to go (9/12 done).

Once that is done, I will no longer run VMA (no matter what they put at the end of it), and the weapons I have will be the weapons I have. I really dont know how many times I have run that place. I know people love to boast insane numbers of runs that are probably exaggerated. I cleared a month after it dropped. I grinded infernos before trait change. When trait changed was introduced, I had VMA weapons spread across 2 mules. I deconed all but 5 of every type, which was still a huge amount to save. The reality is that most of them have been sitting on a mule for years, and the new ones add a minuscule amount of DPS. Doesnt make it feel any better though.

Exaggerated numbers or not, i know that i have 4 items, 4 legendary, fully upgraded, transmuted and properly engraved weapons and i will have to run those veteran challenges many more times, not to mention the grinding for the materials needed to upgrade those weapons.
But that's beyond the point: even those who were lucky and got the weapon they wanted at the first shot deseve the proper veteran version.

Material grind is part of the game. If you arent doing writs, I don't know what to tell you. When you have close to 5 figures of gold mats, you tend to care less about that part. Haha

I dont disagree with your premise though. This was a bad move by the devs for a long list of reasons. All that said, none of these issues come close to the problem of PVP performance (and I spend 90% of my time in PVE).

Algorax · June 2020

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Algorax wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Algorax wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Algorax wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Bro, you are too late for the party, there were furious threads with hundreds of replies month ago... devs answer is this:

BuildMan wrote: »

We (veterans) are the minority and we do not matter is all I got from the explanation given.

Overall, Rich told us that we should be happy with new trial and with new PVP siege tool, heh. Performance is fine, and was improving since U25. If we don't like something, we may stop playing, there is no shortage of new players now.

I already wrote on the OP that i am aware that this problem was already exposed, and how coult it not?
The reason of the post is to refute any reason for this decision provided so far.

Btw with that statement the dev team basically made 2 things:

1) They implicitly aknowledged the problem
2) They alienated their own loyal core of users (most likely the paying one)
3) They proved to be too lazy to solve their own mistake

As you can saw from Rich's interview, there is no any reason for this decision. They simply don't care about veteran players, because there are not so many of us in comparison to amount of new whales ZOS recently got. More then that, ZOS maybe even tired with all the endless whining and bashing and they want veterans which don't pay to go away (those who pay will remain, because they already payed for this game anyway).
Now we can only count that ZOS will make some investments into server infrastructure so whales won't swam away to New World or Shadowlands...

That's true, bitter yes but we must face it. In my experience with other titles, this is not a good sign for the direction a game is taking...

Really bad sign is when usually positive and constructive players like WrathOfInnos and Oreyn_Bearclaw are becoming negative to ZOS and this game...

@MartiniDaniels

I am trying to remain positive, I promise. They are making it harder and harder each patch. I do appreciate the kind words.

To be honest, this issue is pretty low on my list of grievances, but it just feels unnecessary and a bit like a slap in the face. I already have 2 perfected infernos. I decided to give myself the carrot of getting Flawless on every class, magic and stam. I have 3 to go (9/12 done).

Once that is done, I will no longer run VMA (no matter what they put at the end of it), and the weapons I have will be the weapons I have. I really dont know how many times I have run that place. I know people love to boast insane numbers of runs that are probably exaggerated. I cleared a month after it dropped. I grinded infernos before trait change. When trait changed was introduced, I had VMA weapons spread across 2 mules. I deconed all but 5 of every type, which was still a huge amount to save. The reality is that most of them have been sitting on a mule for years, and the new ones add a minuscule amount of DPS. Doesnt make it feel any better though.

Exaggerated numbers or not, i know that i have 4 items, 4 legendary, fully upgraded, transmuted and properly engraved weapons and i will have to run those veteran challenges many more times, not to mention the grinding for the materials needed to upgrade those weapons.
But that's beyond the point: even those who were lucky and got the weapon they wanted at the first shot deseve the proper veteran version.

Material grind is part of the game. If you arent doing writs, I don't know what to tell you. When you have close to 5 figures of gold mats, you tend to care less about that part. Haha

I dont disagree with your premise though. This was a bad move by the devs for a long list of reasons. All that said, none of these issues come close to the problem of PVP performance (and I spend 90% of my time in PVE).

You miss the point: my material is not to be wasted on something that never should have required it in the first place. I do grind, have several characters with all profession maxed, but it is a matter of justice.

idk · June 2020

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I really do not understand these arguments. Would players have preferred Zos to make a more challenging HM version of vMA and vDSA that we would have to clear and farm to get these new and improved weapons?

Personally, I am glad I do not have to clear a more challenging content to get these new perfected weapons as it makes the farming easier.

I haven't seen many players who are asking for harder versions of VMA and VDSA. Most of the thoughtful posts I have seen focus on [paraphrasing] how silly it is that a June 9th veteran difficulty clear offers the normal version of the weapons, while a June 10th veteran difficulty clear offers a perfected version. Both players triumphed over the same content -- so it doesn't make sense that one receives the better version of the reward at an arbitrary date all because the creative director of the game said so...

Also, the decision not to update existing gear is inconsistent with the gear standards they established when they stopped raising gear levels.

I did suggest a lot of players were asking for a harder version of vMA or vDSA. Not sure how you surmised that from my statement.

I did say Zos could have gone that route, and maybe should have, and then the arguments such as the one you paraphrased would be null and void.

Of course, I do not see this gear standard you mention were when a new weapon is added to the game that some existing weapons are upgraded to it. Please cite your examples to demonstrate your point.

Lole · June 2020

Algorax wrote: »

Lole wrote: »

Algorax wrote: »

Many others have pointed this out, so this post wants to be a collective of all the reasons why this move was a very bad move and more importantly it aims to refute all the "reasons" i red here and there that instead support this decision.

But first a short summary for those players who never heard of this plight.
Since the last patch, several weapons sets, which can be seen here:

https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Weapon+Sets

received a major change in the way they could be obtained. Before the patch, the only way you could put your hands on those powerful weapons was to run a VETERAN version of the istance. But after the patch they added a "normal" drop and here lies the problem: what was before the veteran drop became the normal drop and the new veteran drops received an additional bonus. It then happened, against any logic, that all those many players who obtained one of those weapons BEFORE THE PATCH, enduring the difficulties of a veteran mode, WERE NOT given the rightful veteran item, instead they now find themselves with the "normal" version of the weapon.

So now you have a large number of players who feel deprived of their efforts, facing the unfair circumstance that new players will not have to endure even near their struggle to get their same weapons. This will those hit by this injustice to grind the harder veteran mode again and again, in a tedious grinding that does not even count the many additional grinding needed to gather matherial to improve the weapons to legendary, with the desired glyph and trait...

Now, let's face the truth: there is no reason that could justify this. Someone attempted to do it but here is the sadly obvious answer to each one of their attempts:

1) "They are not the same set anymore, hence you deserve no upgraded version of it."
This is really the dumbest, most insulting and yet most recurring point you will find. The answer is ashamingly simple: there is no reason to consider it a different set. Not a single one of those set was changed in its core, the prefected weapons only have an additional bonus stat. Dozens of sets were CHANGED before, completely removing a previous effect and giving new stats, and yet those players who owned them received the new version the very moment it was upgraded

2) "This was long requested by the players"
Nice try. We never asked to create a gap between players, nor to be treated like idiots, which is what is happening now. What the playerbase was asking was to give those weapons sets which already didn't have, the perfected version, since the last released weapon sets did have a perfected version.

3) "Stop making such a fuss: it's just an additonal stat!"
How to shoot on your own feet: if those stats were not important for you then just run normal, but endgame players may want to get them since it's all about them in the end: statistics and perfomance. If they were not that important they could just not have added them. And this still does not justify the decision to not upgrade what was farmed as veteran drop to a veteran drop.

4) "What' the problem? You just go and farm them again!"
Do not assume that we all love grinding, nor that we have enough time to spend on it over and over, some of us work, some of us have families you know... Besides there is so much conent and other things to do that each second you waste there hurts twice. And again, this still does not justify the decision to not upgrade what was farmed as veteran drop to a veteran drop.

5) "It was all made to make players return at the old content"
And you choose the worst approach possible: stealing rightful rewards and compensations from seasoned veteran players. while you could just add something juicy of any sort to draw more playerbase. And once again, this still does not justify the decision to not upgrade what was farmed as veteran drop to a veteran drop.

And now some final consideration.
Immagine a player who grinded the weapon at the time when there was no transmutation system and he ned to farm it untill the weapon had the right effect AND the right trait.
Immagine a player who is aware that those weapons once HAD the perfected stat, that it was later removed and now they add it back for... "reasons" but they will not grant them to you despite your efforts
Immagine a player who maybe pays for the ESO+ or other things and has to smell the neverending stench of this rot.

The only thing more ashaming than what happened, is the overwhelming compliance and omerta of those who refuse to aknowledge the problem.
Everyting i wrote was not moved by anger, it was not born by the emotion of the moment: it is the most lucid assesment you may find and therefore it will never be altered.

Thank you.

Sry but you won’t get an upgraded weapon for free... do something for it or leave it, there are 3 versions of the weapon, you farmed for number 2 so you got number 2, upgrading it to 3 for free is not a solution

2 seasons ago I was pretty high rated in wow Arena 3on3, should I ask blizzard if I can get my stuff upgraded to the current best arena rewards possible ?:)
Might make me start playing wow again actually, stuff for free is allways nice

I wouldn't get anything i didn't eraned in the first place. I endured a veteran run, my compensation shall be in accordance to that. Simple as that.
There is no such thing as 3 versions of the weapon: what i got now is a mere normal run weapon despite my effors in veteran runs.
Wow Arena gear tiers are totally different items from one another, so you would be the one demanding something not earned. The same does not occur here.

Sry but it is exactly the same, I earned the gear, did hit the needed rating once... but now the gear is just outdated... new season = Basicly the same items just a higher ilvl. But I didn’t earn them ? I did the grind and managed to end up there ? Why is my old reward not getting upgraded to the newer reward ? I would have to do the exact same grind again to get the new versions of the old arena items just on a higher ilvl...

Mmos don’t work this way. You want the new version then you need to put the effort in

But they should give the old vet weapons A special name or something to show that it was a vet earned one and not an ezmode one.

Algorax · June 2020

Lole wrote: »

Algorax wrote: »

Lole wrote: »

Algorax wrote: »

Many others have pointed this out, so this post wants to be a collective of all the reasons why this move was a very bad move and more importantly it aims to refute all the "reasons" i red here and there that instead support this decision.

But first a short summary for those players who never heard of this plight.
Since the last patch, several weapons sets, which can be seen here:

https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Weapon+Sets

received a major change in the way they could be obtained. Before the patch, the only way you could put your hands on those powerful weapons was to run a VETERAN version of the istance. But after the patch they added a "normal" drop and here lies the problem: what was before the veteran drop became the normal drop and the new veteran drops received an additional bonus. It then happened, against any logic, that all those many players who obtained one of those weapons BEFORE THE PATCH, enduring the difficulties of a veteran mode, WERE NOT given the rightful veteran item, instead they now find themselves with the "normal" version of the weapon.

So now you have a large number of players who feel deprived of their efforts, facing the unfair circumstance that new players will not have to endure even near their struggle to get their same weapons. This will those hit by this injustice to grind the harder veteran mode again and again, in a tedious grinding that does not even count the many additional grinding needed to gather matherial to improve the weapons to legendary, with the desired glyph and trait...

Now, let's face the truth: there is no reason that could justify this. Someone attempted to do it but here is the sadly obvious answer to each one of their attempts:

1) "They are not the same set anymore, hence you deserve no upgraded version of it."
This is really the dumbest, most insulting and yet most recurring point you will find. The answer is ashamingly simple: there is no reason to consider it a different set. Not a single one of those set was changed in its core, the prefected weapons only have an additional bonus stat. Dozens of sets were CHANGED before, completely removing a previous effect and giving new stats, and yet those players who owned them received the new version the very moment it was upgraded

2) "This was long requested by the players"
Nice try. We never asked to create a gap between players, nor to be treated like idiots, which is what is happening now. What the playerbase was asking was to give those weapons sets which already didn't have, the perfected version, since the last released weapon sets did have a perfected version.

3) "Stop making such a fuss: it's just an additonal stat!"
How to shoot on your own feet: if those stats were not important for you then just run normal, but endgame players may want to get them since it's all about them in the end: statistics and perfomance. If they were not that important they could just not have added them. And this still does not justify the decision to not upgrade what was farmed as veteran drop to a veteran drop.

4) "What' the problem? You just go and farm them again!"
Do not assume that we all love grinding, nor that we have enough time to spend on it over and over, some of us work, some of us have families you know... Besides there is so much conent and other things to do that each second you waste there hurts twice. And again, this still does not justify the decision to not upgrade what was farmed as veteran drop to a veteran drop.

5) "It was all made to make players return at the old content"
And you choose the worst approach possible: stealing rightful rewards and compensations from seasoned veteran players. while you could just add something juicy of any sort to draw more playerbase. And once again, this still does not justify the decision to not upgrade what was farmed as veteran drop to a veteran drop.

And now some final consideration.
Immagine a player who grinded the weapon at the time when there was no transmutation system and he ned to farm it untill the weapon had the right effect AND the right trait.
Immagine a player who is aware that those weapons once HAD the perfected stat, that it was later removed and now they add it back for... "reasons" but they will not grant them to you despite your efforts
Immagine a player who maybe pays for the ESO+ or other things and has to smell the neverending stench of this rot.

The only thing more ashaming than what happened, is the overwhelming compliance and omerta of those who refuse to aknowledge the problem.
Everyting i wrote was not moved by anger, it was not born by the emotion of the moment: it is the most lucid assesment you may find and therefore it will never be altered.

Thank you.

Sry but you won’t get an upgraded weapon for free... do something for it or leave it, there are 3 versions of the weapon, you farmed for number 2 so you got number 2, upgrading it to 3 for free is not a solution

2 seasons ago I was pretty high rated in wow Arena 3on3, should I ask blizzard if I can get my stuff upgraded to the current best arena rewards possible ?:)
Might make me start playing wow again actually, stuff for free is allways nice

I wouldn't get anything i didn't eraned in the first place. I endured a veteran run, my compensation shall be in accordance to that. Simple as that.
There is no such thing as 3 versions of the weapon: what i got now is a mere normal run weapon despite my effors in veteran runs.
Wow Arena gear tiers are totally different items from one another, so you would be the one demanding something not earned. The same does not occur here.

Sry but it is exactly the same, I earned the gear, did hit the needed rating once... but now the gear is just outdated... new season = Basicly the same items just a higher ilvl. But I didn’t earn them ? I did the grind and managed to end up there ? Why is my old reward not getting upgraded to the newer reward ? I would have to do the exact same grind again to get the new versions of the old arena items just on a higher ilvl...

Mmos don’t work this way. You want the new version then you need to put the effort in

But they should give the old vet weapons A special name or something to show that it was a vet earned one and not an ezmode one.

No, it is not.
The gear you get from a season on Wow is unique, different form the one from the previous season in both effect, stats and appearance, in this case we have THE SAME ITEM.

GrumpyDuckling · June 2020

idk wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I really do not understand these arguments. Would players have preferred Zos to make a more challenging HM version of vMA and vDSA that we would have to clear and farm to get these new and improved weapons?

Personally, I am glad I do not have to clear a more challenging content to get these new perfected weapons as it makes the farming easier.

I haven't seen many players who are asking for harder versions of VMA and VDSA. Most of the thoughtful posts I have seen focus on [paraphrasing] how silly it is that a June 9th veteran difficulty clear offers the normal version of the weapons, while a June 10th veteran difficulty clear offers a perfected version. Both players triumphed over the same content -- so it doesn't make sense that one receives the better version of the reward at an arbitrary date all because the creative director of the game said so...

Also, the decision not to update existing gear is inconsistent with the gear standards they established when they stopped raising gear levels.

I did suggest a lot of players were asking for a harder version of vMA or vDSA. Not sure how you surmised that from my statement.

I did say Zos could have gone that route, and maybe should have, and then the arguments such as the one you paraphrased would be null and void.

Of course, I do not see this gear standard you mention were when a new weapon is added to the game that some existing weapons are upgraded to it. Please cite your examples to demonstrate your point.

You asked this question: "Would players have preferred Zos to make a more challenging HM version of vMA and vDSA that we would have to clear and farm to get these new and improved weapons?"

I provided this answer: "I haven't seen many players who are asking for harder versions of VMA and VDSA."

ZOS set a precedent when they stopped raising the gear level cap that saw players have to reacquire items that drop in content that they already beat if they wanted the most up to date version of that gear. That's why all gear has been CP160 for almost 4 years...

furiouslog · June 2020

Algorax wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

They made a very unfair decision because they want players to have to re-grind old content.

That's all their is to it. All they care about is players giving them money and spending more time in game.

This reason was already reported in the OP and already refuted

Where was it refuted?