hey ZOS, reduce healing from sources *other then yourself* down to 20-30%

Wing

idk wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

idk wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

idk wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Cross healing should be minimal or non existent. You are already at an advantage being in some group.

Not everyone is in a group. Also, it makes complete sense that we can aid our alliance members as we are part of the same army.

You want me to able to receive heals from someone who is Cringey, spamming zone chat, interrupting my fights and on top of that they cannot be targeted or take damage from me ?

Thanks for the offer but i need to take a pass on that !

Being able to heal someone in your own alliance makes complete sense. Being able to aid friends and allies in the fight to retake Cyrodiil is a good thing. That is the most basic premise behind Cyrodiil's design and the intentions of the developers.

I have no idea who Cringey is or how the rest relates to alliance members working together to fight the enemy alliances.

The most basic premise behind Cyrodiil's design is PVP. Having friends or alliances in Cyrodil prevents PVP as I need to play horse simulator to find a fight with some other faction

Able to aid friends or allies is something I recommend IRL and not in Cyrodil.

Tip: Try healing, zerging or spamming zone chat to find cringey.

Having an alliance part of the core design of Cyrodiil. It is Alliance vs Alliance vs Alliance. It does nothing to prevent PvP. That is an indisputable fact that no one can play in Cyrodiil without being in an alliance.

Further, Cyhrodiil was designed for group PvP, not solo. As such most play with friends or guildmates. I run solo sometimes and with a small group PvP guild sometimes. It does nothing to hinder PvP as the games base design forbids me from attacking those same characters anyhow.

It really sounds like you are talking about something over than ESO's Cyrodiil.

I would argue that it was designed around zerg surfing, and not ball groups.

in all of the gameplay trailers siege combat was shown as maybe 50v50 all spread out in and around a breach fighting in small 1v1 up to 3v3 group sizes with minimal movement. and to be fair, current pug sieges can be fun, when individual players skill can actually have an effect on the outcome of the siege.


what time has created is 24 man ball groups clustered in a space of 3 feet spamming AoE's with dedicated skill spammers (purge, rapids, bombard, etc.) that can only stack on a crown and Roomba around the battlefield chasing down poor *** unlucky enough to get into the crowns field of view.

and once one of those balls shows up and decides its taking a keep there is nothing anyone can do about it, unless a friendly and equally competent ball group shows up and they chase each other around.

but then camps are a thing.

and so given enough time a ball group might never F off unless they want to go somewhere else.

Wing

https://youtu.be/YlEipFtHw7o?t=491

8:10 onward, check THAT pvp out.

Wing

triple post but whatever.

I would say that spreading out groups is EASY

reduce group healing

give all AoE's MASSIVE scaling damage based on numbers, so that aoes are not used by ball groups to spam on single players, but on single players to eliminate the plague that is ball groups should they cluster together.

done.

Fawn4287

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

Would have too much of an impact on no cp pvp and bgs. The best decision would be to simply remove cp from pvp and balance around no cp.

No thanks triple proc set dot meta CP PvP died a long time ago, BGs is literally battle of the proc set dot builds, theres a reason no CP campaigns are dead lmao

Qbiken

Fawn4287 wrote: »

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

Would have too much of an impact on no cp pvp and bgs. The best decision would be to simply remove cp from pvp and balance around no cp.

No thanks triple proc set dot meta CP PvP died a long time ago, BGs is literally battle of the proc set dot builds, theres a reason no CP campaigns are dead lmao

PCEU pop locked nocp campaign wants a word with you.....

FrancisCrawford

Wing wrote: »

https://youtu.be/YlEipFtHw7o?t=491

8:10 onward, check THAT pvp out.

Great video.

What in it actually came true?

Even the graphics aren't as good as the demo suggested.

Wing

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

https://youtu.be/YlEipFtHw7o?t=491

8:10 onward, check THAT pvp out.

Great video.

What in it actually came true?

Even the graphics aren't as good as the demo suggested.

iirc they toned down the colors for launch (or did at some point) as people claimed it looked like wow.

pieratsos

ItsJustHashtag wrote: »

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

ItsJustHashtag wrote: »

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

Would have too much of an impact on no cp pvp and bgs. The best decision would be to simply remove cp from pvp and balance around no cp.

Lmao no cp has just as many problems as cp.

CP hasn’t been increased in a few years now but healing and damage has gone up. CP isn’t the issue bud, hate to break the news to ya.

[snip] realize the game is balanced around cp pvp, therefore the issues in no cp stem from that. You don’t need to raise cp to balance the game around it so that makes no sense btw, the same way you don’t have to directly buff or nerf a class for it to get buffed or nerfed.

Of course damage and heals can still go up because there’s more to balance than raising cp, that doesn’t negate the fact changes are made with cp in mind.

Name a change in the last two years that has CP in mind and why it was changed?

Healing nerf

BaiterOfZergs

Fawn4287 wrote: »

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

Would have too much of an impact on no cp pvp and bgs. The best decision would be to simply remove cp from pvp and balance around no cp.

No thanks triple proc set dot meta CP PvP died a long time ago, BGs is literally battle of the proc set dot builds, theres a reason no CP campaigns are dead lmao

It’s like you guys don’t read before you respond. What do you not understand when I say “balance around no cp” meaning you’d fix the issues with no cp without worrying about balancing two versions of pvp + pve. Somehow you think oh just remove cp and leave it at that, unreal.

BaiterOfZergs

Vara wrote: »

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

Would have too much of an impact on no cp pvp and bgs. The best decision would be to simply remove cp from pvp and balance around no cp.

Most cp just cancels each other out anyways in pvp...

If that was really the case they both wouldn’t feel drastically different. There wouldn’t be a big disparity between the amount of players that play them overall and there wouldn’t be as many cp vs no cp debates.

Both are terrible at the moment but no cp is terrible because of what they did to balance cp pvp this update. Last update it was fine while cp pvp has been terrible for quite a long time.

NuarBlack

Wing wrote: »

this will have NO EFFECT on solo players, obviously, at all.

and will only slightly impact small scale, ramping up in effectiveness the bigger the group spamming heals.

this will effect, the aoe lingering healing group heal spam the most

if you cannot be bothered to come up with real systemic changes to fix the problems of pvp, this is a pretty easy band aid for the group heal spam.


I played another MMO at a point in time that did the inverse to promote grouping in high end content, self heals were reduced but group heals were left alone, guess what, it worked, people started grouping more as they could not heal by themselves.

Self heals are the problem though. The problem has always been healing is too cheap and I'm not talking stamina or magicka cost but globals and positioning. Keep hots rolling and your offensive windows are easy to find and your block cast turtling too.

Vigor becoming the standard was where it all went wrong. The skill was busted OP from the get go and shifting everything to match skewed healing out of proportion. If anything should have a cast time it should have been big impactful heals. I actually loved healing back when templar had a casted heal it felt engaging. It would also allow shields to fill the oh [snip] button while burst heals fill the actual restoring of health helping to differentiate the two more. Hots need to just be supplemental not a mainstay survival tool.

Also cross healing isn't the problem. It's uncounterable cross healing that's a problem. It's all the incidental healing that happens as part of everyone's normal rotations with no way to identify a source and counter it. So nerfing cross healing wouldn't be much better than the blanket healing nerf with the added negative of hurting dedicated healers. Dedicated healers should be impactful but also clearly counterable.

[Edit for profanity]

idk

Wing wrote: »

idk wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

idk wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

idk wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Cross healing should be minimal or non existent. You are already at an advantage being in some group.

Not everyone is in a group. Also, it makes complete sense that we can aid our alliance members as we are part of the same army.

You want me to able to receive heals from someone who is Cringey, spamming zone chat, interrupting my fights and on top of that they cannot be targeted or take damage from me ?

Thanks for the offer but i need to take a pass on that !

Being able to heal someone in your own alliance makes complete sense. Being able to aid friends and allies in the fight to retake Cyrodiil is a good thing. That is the most basic premise behind Cyrodiil's design and the intentions of the developers.

I have no idea who Cringey is or how the rest relates to alliance members working together to fight the enemy alliances.

The most basic premise behind Cyrodiil's design is PVP. Having friends or alliances in Cyrodil prevents PVP as I need to play horse simulator to find a fight with some other faction

Able to aid friends or allies is something I recommend IRL and not in Cyrodil.

Tip: Try healing, zerging or spamming zone chat to find cringey.

Having an alliance part of the core design of Cyrodiil. It is Alliance vs Alliance vs Alliance. It does nothing to prevent PvP. That is an indisputable fact that no one can play in Cyrodiil without being in an alliance.

Further, Cyhrodiil was designed for group PvP, not solo. As such most play with friends or guildmates. I run solo sometimes and with a small group PvP guild sometimes. It does nothing to hinder PvP as the games base design forbids me from attacking those same characters anyhow.

It really sounds like you are talking about something over than ESO's Cyrodiil.

I would argue that it was designed around zerg surfing, and not ball groups.

in all of the gameplay trailers siege combat was shown as maybe 50v50 all spread out in and around a breach fighting in small 1v1 up to 3v3 group sizes with minimal movement. and to be fair, current pug sieges can be fun, when individual players skill can actually have an effect on the outcome of the siege.


what time has created is 24 man ball groups clustered in a space of 3 feet spamming AoE's with dedicated skill spammers (purge, rapids, bombard, etc.) that can only stack on a crown and Roomba around the battlefield chasing down poor *** unlucky enough to get into the crowns field of view.

and once one of those balls shows up and decides its taking a keep there is nothing anyone can do about it, unless a friendly and equally competent ball group shows up and they chase each other around.

but then camps are a thing.

and so given enough time a ball group might never F off unless they want to go somewhere else.

The trailer footage was just an artist's rendition and by no means attempts to illustrate how players will actually play. Further, since before this game launched there have been 24 man zergs and large numbers of players converging on the same location.

Before the game launched Entropy Rising defending a keep with just a small number of players against a large group for an extended amount of time. There is a plague somewhere in Cyrodiil commemorating those guilds efforts that day. Granted, they were also the first guild to have a player crowned Emporer.

Further, since the game launched there have been fights with huge numbers of players that lasted hours. Less than two months after the game launched I was in a defense of the last keep to prevent my alliance from losing Emporer. Granted, the Emporer was in my guild. It went on for a while until my guild went to anther keep to take it which took the pressure off the other keep's defense and ended the attempt to dethrone our Emporer for the night.

The point is what you suggest has happened over time has been happening since day one. It is due to the initial design of Cyrodiil and those trailers were merely entertainment advertisements. Even you seem to acknowledge that skillful groups can overtake the large groups you seem to be complaining about. That seems to be how it should be.

idk

Wing wrote: »

https://youtu.be/YlEipFtHw7o?t=491

8:10 onward, check THAT pvp out.

That is not PvP. That is either animation (likely) or choreographed for purposes of the video. The fact the attackers all patiently wait by their siege until the big moment they all start to attack should be a major clue. If not then the fact they all draw their weapons at the same moment should be as well. Random players in a group are not that coordinated. Organized players in a group do not worry about choreographing when they draw their weapons.

Wing

idk wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

https://youtu.be/YlEipFtHw7o?t=491

8:10 onward, check THAT pvp out.

That is not PvP. That is either animation (likely) or choreographed for purposes of the video. The fact the attackers all patiently wait by their siege until the big moment they all start to attack should be a major clue. If not then the fact they all draw their weapons at the same moment should be as well. Random players in a group are not that coordinated. Organized players in a group do not worry about choreographing when they draw their weapons.

well yeah, it was all the devs making a cool pvp trailer.

pieratsos wrote: »

ItsJustHashtag wrote: »

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

ItsJustHashtag wrote: »

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

Would have too much of an impact on no cp pvp and bgs. The best decision would be to simply remove cp from pvp and balance around no cp.

Lmao no cp has just as many problems as cp.

CP hasn’t been increased in a few years now but healing and damage has gone up. CP isn’t the issue bud, hate to break the news to ya.

[snip] realize the game is balanced around cp pvp, therefore the issues in no cp stem from that. You don’t need to raise cp to balance the game around it so that makes no sense btw, the same way you don’t have to directly buff or nerf a class for it to get buffed or nerfed.

Of course damage and heals can still go up because there’s more to balance than raising cp, that doesn’t negate the fact changes are made with cp in mind.

Name a change in the last two years that has CP in mind and why it was changed?

Healing nerf

AND pretty much every sustain change since CP introduction.

for those of you who dont know or cannot remember, cost reduction and resource regen on armor passives used to be higher (around 33% higher iirc)

and it was fine

till CP was introduced

then all of a sudden resources became an issue because they were not an issue, guess what they gutted?

CP!

nope

armor passives (and racial, redguard used to be much better) CP got left alone, armor passives were nerf'd despite the fact that CP was the reason resource regen was not an issue.


also defile CP was the reason defile was pretty much removed from every skill that had it (reverb bash, etc.) but the issue of the CP itself was never changed, as you can see by blighted blastbones showing what happens when you have easy major defile and a 30% boost to it from CP)