"GEM EXCLUSIVE" items...BS game monetization

Kiralyn2000

I note that no-one is responding to the question: Do you also consider card packs, grab bags, blind boxes, those toy-in-a-capsule machines at the grocery store, etc, to be gambling? If not, where do you draw the line? If so, should all these aspects of our lives be removed?

Keledus

People spend their ESO+ crowns on crates, either gifting them to players for gold or using them themselves.
And then you have those that buy crowns to get more gold ingame or purely to buy items from the shop which tbh is probably not that many people

ya'll seem to forget that people get crowns from ESO+ aswell.

Plus you have your streams you can watch for free crates (which everyone usually turns into gems anyways.)
It honestly just is a reward shop for watching streams.


Even tho I'd rather see all the items from crates in the crown store sold for crowns only and not some random box you open for a ''chance'' at something.

But then we'd see a mount being $25-30 worth of crowns just like a mount in world of warcraft.

Scion_of_Yggdrasil

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

Agree 100%. Corporations have been nothing but thinly veiled organized crime since the US repealed and otherwise stopped enforcing anti-trust laws, and made greed the new 'patriotism' aka GOD.

There is nothing good about a corporation. It is value extraction from the many for the few, plain and simple. Nothing anyone can claim in their defense will sway me. No stories of happy families and job creation and trickle down. It is ALL BS.

Corporations are scum, built to insulate the scum that runs them, at the expense of us all and the progress of humanity.

It is why we are still burning fossil fuel when we have had molten salt reactor technology for 60+ efing years.

While I like to believe there are still good corporations out there... this hits the nail on the head. "Planned obsolescence" for example. Its one of many reincarnations of the same corrupt concept: how to the get most money, and get the most money for as long as possible. It is entirely illogical to want to design something obsolete. Does an artist strive for an ugly painting? Abstract maybe, or satirically ugly... but the art is still meant to be done well- no, perfect, to the best of our( (artists) ability!

Elsonso

Keledus wrote: »

People spend their ESO+ crowns on crates, either gifting them to players for gold or using them themselves.
And then you have those that buy crowns to get more gold ingame or purely to buy items from the shop which tbh is probably not that many people

ya'll seem to forget that people get crowns from ESO+ aswell.

I don't forget about the ESO Plus Crowns. I won't gamble with them, so they do tend to pile up a lot more than they used to. There are months where there just isn't anything worth buying with them. I would probably buy more if they dropped the Crate and Gem exclusives, since I would probably run out of them between sub renewals. I haven't run out of Crowns in a couple years, now. (Edit: I have multiple accounts, and all of them "live" off the Crowns from my main account, for the most part. Thank you, Gifting!)

Scion_of_Yggdrasil

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

I note that no-one is responding to the question: Do you also consider card packs, grab bags, blind boxes, those toy-in-a-capsule machines at the grocery store, etc, to be gambling? If not, where do you draw the line? If so, should all these aspects of our lives be removed?

Ahhhh yes. It’s complicated, yah?

In short, I will answer with a question: just because a cow eats grass, does it mean a human should? But let’s try to logically dissect and compare these other questionable practices.

Blind boxes... I loathe them btw as they are the physical manifestation of gamble crates. Literal. Loot. Boxes. IRL. I remember seeing them in a video game store for the first time and just staring in awe... hate beams blasting from my eyes.

All of these things (cards, capsules, grab bags, etc.) are real/exist in our physical world, and there is a cost to produce each unit, whereas with digital content, the only cost associated with it is the cost to produce the original unit (artists, animators, coding, etc.), and all other units are magically replicated via magical magic (digital lingo).

Another thing to consider, with blind boxes for example, you can usually find most of the specific items on, say, eBay (even though some people take advantage and majorly up sell).

Lets put things to scale and see how they all compare?

Cost/Value:

The first “line” that can be crossed would be price.

• Crates are blazing across that line with a turbo jetpack on.
• Capsule machines are cheap to produce, and cheap to purchase. They usually just pay for themselves with an little extra. Not really a huge profit there.
• Cards... also pretty cheap, and part of the culture is trading, so you can probably trade with someone for what you want if you don't get it.
• Mystery box toys are usually all desirable options (they are designed to make you want them all right?) and again, just a few bucks.

Purchase Options:

An unsettling practice is to add secondary (and in some cases, third) currencies. Crates have a way of looping you into buying more crates because of crown gems. Gems can only be used on crate items, encouraging (gentle word for it) you to purchase more crates to obtain enough gems to get the item you desire. The other “gamble” purchases are one n done, and hardly leave you wanting more. Mystery boxes being the exception, since you usually want all of them (not always), but that leads me too...

Variety:

I can’t think of a good example of needing more than one identical unit from cards, capsules, etc.. Also, you can usually collect all options fairly easily, since there's only around 5 options to begin with, cards and crates being the exception.

Mystery boxes: basically all of the options are the same thing... although beauty is in the eye of the beholder you’re getting a mini statue (for example) in a mystery box no matter what, and it’s going to be one of the main loved characters, not Han Solo (apex mount) vs a random villager in that one short scene that was barely even seen in the background (crown potion).

Crates on the other hand, offer some awesome content, mixed with... garbage. The BEST content is offered in crates, lately (not gonna lie, the furnishings in this last round of crates are.... *drools* that’s intentional... but more on that below). They offer everything now... things that you want multiples of (i.e. furnishings) and things you need multiples of (i.e. riding lessons).

Capsules comprise of what color alien/ring do you want? Buts its still just an alien/a ring. Do you want a sticky hand, star, or heart? Its all basically the same.

Cards... My cousin is actually excited with everything he gets. Pokemon, for example... you gotta catch 'em all!

Grab bags are usually an outfit in a bag, and they're just color variants most times so... I can see most people getting those as a gift, but not for personal wear. You otherwise pick out the right size/color/style to suit your taste.

Drop Rates:

• Crown crate drop rates are a joke. No... an insult. Watch some crate opening videos on YouTube.... it’s blood boiling seeing how much money people spend, when the items they get are, let’s face it, absolute trash, but thank the divines I can convert into gems... oh wait, not this emote thats automatically added to your collection though. On that note, let’s cut down another invalid argument that gets thrown around... regardless of where the crowns/gems come from (purchase, sub, gift, leftoverm etc.) the amount of crowns required period is gross.
• Cards: my cousin usually got what he wanted the first time, or after just a few packs (and he collects Pokémon and Yugio) but as I've said before, he loves all of them, and even likes when he has dupes. Most cards even offer special packs with the prized card guaranteed, and if not, an extra bonus toy.
• Capsules... I mean, you can literally look and calculate how much you’d need to buy to get what you want, and did any of us reeeeeeeally want them when we were little? They’re just toddler traps (different moral issue here, it’s more of a marketing sin, and boy oh boy don't get me started on that topic too lol).
• Mystery boxes... since I never purchase these I can't say. Ages ago I purchased some mystery lightsaber baggies from GameStop and got two luke sabers, one obiwan, one darth vader (sigh... all but darth vaders broke, and now even his is lost somewhere). If memory serves me right, that was all the options so... color me happy. I got all the options after just purchasing 2 each time I visited (4 sabers total).

The controversial/subjective aspect, The Companies Intent:

Who can truly speak to what the goal was when capsule machines came out: was it to incept gambling in the minds of younguns? Or was it just a fun cheap surprise? Same with grab bags: was it clearance product the manager was trying to get rid of, or are they betting that customers will keep coming back to get their favorite shirt (as opposed to just grabbing it off the shelf)? Cards are absolutely monetization of a brand (kids television selling products in stores), but is it just sensible marketing, or a way to sneak gambling into your average household (for Pokemon it actually makes sense to have randomized cards, never watched yugio though so...)? All in all its mostly inexpensive and not nearly as difficult to get what you want.

Crates, though, are designed to be a money trap. Every which way you turn, you're pushed to buy more. The best items are crate exclusives. On top of that, they are only available for a limited amount of time. And if you don't get what you want the first time, just keep buying more anyways because it will eventually pay off.

Its a complicated topic for sure, but all in all, I think we can all agree crown crates are a different beast, and one that needs to be kept in check or, preferably, done away with. Are you more afraid of a domesticated cat, or a wild lion? Are they related? Sure, but they are not the same and must be treated differently. You don't ban house pets because a lion broke loose and killed a zoo-goer. As is, cards/capsules/etc. have not posed as much of a threat and remain mostly harmless.

Do I view them (cards/capsules/etc.) as gambling, though? No, honestly, but the concept is similarly rooted. Do I see them as greedy? I see them more as an outdated marketing tactic, or a niche, but mystery boxes... hate them (if you want to sell something, sell it, don't sell me a chance, leave that for the casino). But just because cows (cards, capsules, etc.) eat grass (offer chance), doesn't mean other products/companies should, especially when you compare the differences.

In a previous post I mentioned if grocery stores sold produce in a similar way to loot crates. Sounds absolutely insane and evil, yah? So why does hiding a bad-ass mount in a crate with poor drop rates, or for 400 gems with even poorer gem conversion rates, not tickle your spidey senses?

And let me say one more time, AND LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK, it isn't just about the gambling similarities. Its greedy af and you know it.

[edit to fix spoiler formatting]

Raudgrani

I don't even look at those things. I have tried to buy an occasional crate now and then, with crowns from ESO+ primarily. But I can do well without the poisons and foods it always gives me, almost exclusively. So I'm done with crown crates. :-)